e48. Overcoming Challenges in Regenerative Agriculture: Christian Carreon's Story

These transcriptions are automatically generated. Please excuse any errors in the text. 0:00:00 Welcome to the Grazing Grass podcast episode forty eight. It's gonna be hard, and that's okay, and that's a good thing. You're listening to the grazing grass podcast, upping grass farmers learn from grass farmers, and every episode features a grass farmer. And their operation. I'm your host, Cal Hardich. On today's episode, we have Christian Carreon, From Mexico, Christian talks about his journey to regenerative agriculture, some mistakes he's made along the way and what he's learned. I think a lot of his mistakes you can relate to because we all make him. Before we talk to Christian, ten minutes about my farm. 0:00:47 Today, we are forecast to have rain. And when you're listening to this, it should be a little drier. It's still kinda cool. Temperature's in the high mid fifties on Fahrenheit. Love for that to get a little bit warmer. But I'm enjoying the journey. The green grass is really starting to green up and jump up. Let's talk to Christian. Christian, we wanna welcome you to the grazing grass pod guys. We're glad you're here today. Hey, Cal. I'm glad to be here. Thanks Duane, Miami. 0:01:24 Christian, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your operation? You know, the ranch started with my my grandpa, It was a big time rancher in the seventies, around the seventies when Hemant did that. And due to financial trouble and management of money. He started saying all the cattle, and there was a big, big part of a lot of years where there was no cattle in in the in the ranch. And and this is important because there's a a lot of connection between me and cattle for about all of my life until five years ago. So we're we're not, per se, a a generational farm or ranch, but the ranch has been in the family for for about three generations right right now. So after fifteen or twenty years, when my grandpa followed all his cattle, my parents bought bought the ranch from him. And started to start their their their cattle business as a side business or a hobby or something that and they they weren't a hundred percent invested in that. They they they have a wholesale store, a big wholesale wholesale store here in Chicago. So that was what took most of the time. And through the years, the the the ranch or the herd size grew little by little, but most of the decision were based on what the Wrangler's or the ranch format for them was best for the ranch. And and through the years, they they get learned a lot reading and meeting new people that were in the Cal industry and all of that. But as you can see, there's a little bit of of space in between and communication with them and cattle because a lot of people deal with cattle if they're a little and then they grow up learning and learn more. You learn how to deal with cattle, how to read cattle, how your body or what you should do in certain situations. And we we didn't have that. 0:03:38 So when I when I went into college, I started to get really interested in Carroll, and so I get involved in the ranch, which was not my plan before that. But I knew as I was getting involved with the ranch, that I had to do something or make a change for that. The Rangel provided for two families. Right now, I'm engaged So the ranch has to lie for my future family and for my parents. Right? 0:04:05 When I was thinking, you know, on what what I could do or what makes sense for the for the ranch to be more profitable where where I where I just start thinking more cattle. Right? But how are you gonna fit more cattle than your ranch if it's already full? Well, that was that was with traditional grazing that we used to practice we did have a little bit of three divisions, but three divisions on a, say, a hundred and fifty acre range. Was not gonna make much of a difference. So one day, I stumbled upon Allen Saveries. Holistic management tech talk. And that when I heard that, that was music to my ears. Like, I like everything from this from the management, to the biology, to the to how it helps the environment, to how we can help humanity with that. And I I made a plan to get it started in the range. 0:05:02 I started this year. Full time, I used to work in my parent's wholesale store, I used to manage it. And now I I'm focusing a hundred percent here in the range. It's been about ten months that I started probably on January or February. And It's been a a hell of a ride. It's been hard. And but we're seeing a lot of results. We're seeing our soil to get better. We're seeing more grass species. From the start, probably three well, after three months, I started seeing results, but it's been hard right holy. And a learning experience, especially because I didn't deal with Cal from a day to day basis. So now being with Cal every day. All day, it's been a really really big learning experience and I I've enjoyed it a lot a lot of troubles, but that that just makes the the journey much much better. Yeah. No matter what we're doing, we're gonna have those areas of difficulties that we're going to have to grow through. Though they're always going to be there and hopefully you can learn from them and continue on. 0:06:16 So it was about five years ago when you saw the TED Talk by Alan Staprey. No. It was it was probably three years ago. I don't know the right way of life changing, but around that time, probably was, like, twenty being something that or twenty around those those years, it was I wasn't a big dilemma because I was really into cattle, but at the same time, it was when all all the cattle accusations, the methane emissions, and and pollution that it brought to the table, that it got me really, really confused with that because I didn't wanna affect the world in a negative way. And at the same time, I I was in love with the cattle business. Oh, and and I and I wanted to get into it So when I when I see how I could affect old carbon sequestration, covering soil, soil health, all that how it how it could affect possibly our world and and the creative their environment. I was really into it. So it was, like, everything everything since I saw that that talk, everything changed for me because everything made sense. Like, from the point of management and how it it helped the soil and the earth and and how cows used to well, not not cattle, but how what do you call how bias and all that used to graze before. It made a lot of sense to me and how it worked and how how it's the natural thing to do. 0:07:50 So as soon as I heard that, I started because I before this, I've never heard before at Tecta, I have never heard anything about regenerating. Or or holistic management or anything like that. But when I when I I hear the tech doc, I I got really invested in it. I started watching videos, reading. I I got down to all the Rio Choletta, videos, Dave Brown, Dave Brown's book, Greg Judy, all of that. Jim Elizondo, too. And and I come up on your your podcast too, and I started hearing all your podcast and and looking for more podcast more information. I wanted to get every bit of information so that when I started, I knew what to do. When I started, I realized I didn't know what to do. And then and then I that I need I need the experience for that and the the experience has has given me that extra bit of knowledge and that edge to to apply everything to their ranch. I think that's a very similar journey to a lot of people. Whatever that hook is, that opens our eyes to the possibilities, and then we start down that path of learning, and then we get started And that's always a big thing getting started. And you learn so much once you start, that you can't learn from books, but those books are invaluable for your growth and continued growth. Before we talk a little bit more about how you got started, let's talk about where you're located and what you're you're running there, and then we will jump back and talk about how you got started. 0:09:39 I'm in Chihuahua and the Chihuahua Desert grasslands. Right now, it's not much of a grasslands because of of all the degradation. Or the certification. Right. But we're get we're getting there. And it's municipality called Galliana. It's in the middle of Taiwan. Okay. And for our listeners, where on the map of Mexico would that be? To always ride next to a patter. So it's just south of El Paso in that area? Yes. It's next next to it. 0:10:14 So even though we're we're, like, three hours away from El Paso, it it's a a totally different environment. El Paso, that's for the most part a lot of sand. And over here, well, there used to be a grassland sand. Well, there's some some more reservations some graphite reservations over here. But most of where people have cattle or grays, it just cert they're certifying and that's obvious consequence from traditional grazing. And you can really see it. How different a rank is just by watching what what the operation next to it is doing, how if they're doing a little bit of more how the land can be a lot different. So So when when you see what we're doing in operation and and see the racks next to it, you could bet there were two different places and two different locations. That's the wonder of doing the correct management or or a better management. Right? 0:11:17 About how much is your annual precipitation? It's about around twelve inches of rain. Probably a little bit more, but was nothing or compared to a lot of people. Right? Oh, yes. Yes. It is. And have you been in a your area been in under out for quite a while? Yes. 0:11:37 What I've been seeing that's been happening is that the the rains are taking a little bit more to start. So when we usually see the rain about June. So now it's taking all the way to July to see heavy rain. And sometime to August. So right now, we got a little bit rain in July, but the heavy rains are are barely coming probably this week So they're taking a little bit longer. So people are already accustomed to their management. And given feed thirteen thirteen months. 0:12:13 And now where the where the rain is taking a little bit more to come, you see people being really affected by that. And it really affected us last year. We gave tons of feet. Tung to feet. And this year I told my dad, we're not gonna give I'm not gonna buy any fee because we're not gonna give any fee. And that's that's how it's gonna be. And we haven't buy any fleet. And actually, we produce a a a follow-up belt. We used to, at least we used to. And And this year due to our our duration broke down, we didn't produce any of also bills. We haven't needed them anyway. So that that's been great too. Oh, very good. And Christian, that really helps us to to hone in where you're located. 0:13:01 And let's jump back just a little bit to to you gathered all this knowledge and you got started So what was some of the first things you did on your ranch to get going? The first thing I think you have to do is figure out where you can get wired to. And I think and I say you think you got to figure out because I didn't realize that. Until I have my Cal rounded up in electric band. So the first thing I did, I I rounded him up, I actually rounded up years there and that we're we're gonna export. I was like, okay. I have him in. Let's take water through it. Let's let's let's get them some water. Because I I thought I was gonna be a piece of cake. I I thought I was gonna get that done in an hour. And one hour passed, the hour passed, the hour passed. And I I came and get wired to them because my hose wasn't big enough and the pressure wasn't enough. And all of those little details that you don't know until you started doing that, I found out in that second. 0:14:02 It was really hard because in my mind, that was gonna be the easy part. I was gonna get in water. How how easy can it be? How how can it be? Get some water to to your to your cattle. Right? And I couldn't do it. My my house wasn't big enough. I ended up laying my cattle loose so they can go to the to the main wire truck. I've had to use more than two thousand meters of a two inch choice, and I haven't even covered half of the range. So that takes a big toll on your on your pocket. And I'm doing that because I do most of those things by myself. So you you don't see that when you're you're when you're starting, and it it takes a a big pull on on your mind because you your life. What is going on? Why why when water get over here, why isn't there enough pressure? That's one of the things that I have learned throughout this training of how water works, how water travels, especially in in the big area. Because it is a decently big range, especially for one person. To handle all by itself. And after that, it's getting your your your electrical fences right, because if you will get it right, you're gonna have trouble. You're gonna have cow all all over your range. 0:15:23 And this comes from someone that have to round up his cow more than fifty times probably, probably close to eighty times. When I was getting near where my downward draphing, I started getting nervous every day. Because probably ninety percent of the time there were out when I was started. And it was the little details that I was missing. And and, you know, I have this quote on my phone that I put it on my screen favorite because that's what helped me figure out a lot of stuff. And and it says, insanity doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Because that's that's what happened with me, my cow will take down defense. I will round them up pretty late and put the defense exactly as it was. And and I said this time it's gonna be different. And this time it's gonna be different. I was doing the the same exact thing. So how was how was different results supposed to happen? So that's really important. Taking those little details. 0:16:22 But once you get your your your water, you figure out that where you can get water easily and your fences, you get them right, how to do them right, more than have the valve. Because now my my cow I don't even turn on my charger and they won't get near that bend. And now I have trouble getting there all the defense. If I ever left my my line, my pallet, my Poly break, they won't go in here. I'm I think that's the best scenario of the two of the two things that had cap and or they get out or they respect a lot I rather than respect all of that me having to round out my cow every day. 0:17:03 You bring up a two excellent points there that let's dive in a little bit deeper. So water water is so vital to what you're doing in water is difficult. Well, water is easy in some ways to move it, but to move enough volume for the number of cows you have. That's a whole new dynamic there to get it to where you want it. And a lot of times when we're looking at land, And then we're planning paddocks or how we're going to move them. Water dictates so much of that. Yes. So what did you do to get water closer to your cows so that it's not so much work for you? The lack of connection between me and Cal. 0:17:48 That was one of one of the point that I had to learn is how much water cows drink. You know, it's very different when you go one day every month to to see cows, to when you deal with them, and actually see how much wire they drink, because because when I started taking water to them, I was like, oh, they're just gonna take a sip and that's gonna be it. And cow drink a lot of water, especially in a drought season or a hot season. I didn't realize that until I started where most of your listeners gonna be and and something so clear to see. But for me, that especially that I wanted to start doing this as soon as I could. It's something that I didn't take care of and then plan carefully enough. 0:18:35 I I I did a little bit research on my ranch to see where my high elevation was and where my lower elevations were. So I have a a Pivot irrigation system, and I thought it was easier for me to get the use of that line to take water to a higher place, to the highest place I could. From there, I I put a container tank, a water tank, And with the gravity, I I send water as far as I could. And after that, I did some other weird stuff. I I giving a submersible pump to pump water from a from a container to another container that that was far away and higher up the hill, something like that. But that was the first thing I did. And after that, I decided where I was gonna graze and how it's gonna take wire to and that was through through two inch hoses. So that container was hooked up to two inch hoses. And the two in choice is is good enough to take enough wired for a wired slot for the for the cows. Also, what I figured out by that point is that Eric gets into hoses. 0:19:50 And since my my cows were drinking, more water than my tank could handle, and I couldn't get water fast enough in that tank. Air was gained into the to the waterline. And since there was air in the wireline, my Wireshark was in was it pulling up fast enough and the cows were were drinking water faster that that the line could beat the wire tray, you know? And I have never dealt with wire lines or how much water it cow drank. 0:20:26 All that it was just a big change that caught me tons of headaches and and even thinking thinking on, like, what what is going on? What Is is there like a sign that I I'm not seeing that I shouldn't be doing this? Because you gotta imagine, I get to a ranch all my cow, they they got out. I had to run them up. And now I have to deal with water lines, and they're they're not feeding enough water to my water trough, and then I heated the the tank has water, but it's not pulling up my water trough. So I was like, what is it going on? 0:21:04 And and those are the things that with experience, you're you're gonna you're gonna have to figure out because I can't say exactly what no one should do, but until they're not put into that situation and see what what happens when you actually do it? You you don't know how to deal with it, you know? Because because, you know, Marcos, he he was a guest of yours He's a friend of mine. Yes. And he will he will explain it and I'll be like, yeah. Well, that's easy. And I and I will try to do it and and they work out for me. And that's where the experience comes in and actually doing it for yourself. 0:21:44 And and I say this because one of the things you don't see in the videos is that or or that people don't talk about it is that it's really hard. It can be it can get it can get really hard some sort of aspect or something that you don't have experience with. You're gonna have trouble with that. And and that's okay. You just gotta figure it out and test it out and figure it out and not do the same thing. Over and over again because you're gonna get the same installer. Yeah. You you're exactly correct, Christian, before I go on on that. 0:22:16 You mentioned Marcos he was on episode nine. So do you ever listen to episode nine? Pop on there and and learn how he's grazing in the same general area as Christian. Christian, you talk about You know, these videos, Instagram, we see everything and everything's just working so good. You know? I've heard so many people say it's the highlight real. Yeah. So it's it's looks pretty all good. But, yeah, there's there's stuff we struggle with and we have to share those struggles with other people They realize they're not. They're not alone in this. We're all trying to figure this out. Though, and I appreciate you sharing your struggles with that. I also listen and read a lot about motivational books and all that. And they all talk about the same thing that everything's hard, but especially in this this time with the Instagram and all that social media, you get to see how pretty their account look. Or how being their pastors look and all day. And and that sometimes can bring you down. 0:23:26 Is, like, I'm trying to do everything right. I'm trying to work extra, do change from traditional. Get out of the comfort zone because because when we start doing this, we are helping out the world. We are regenerated land and we're creating from sequestration or carbon to healthier soil to healthcare, meet all of that. We're doing all of that. We gotta we gotta acknowledge that we we can do that and we can make a big change But at that that point of time, I was like thinking, like, I'm trying to do something something good. 0:23:58 I'm trying to get better. And and I I can't do it, like, what's going on? And and the thing is that that happens to everyone, and and you gotta realize that and and handle it. It just just be better, just get better every day and and as soon as you get better every day and realize that it's gonna be hard. And and and it's okay for it to be hard. It's good for it to be hard because that means you're doing something good. Good things don't come easy, especially if you're trying to do something like we're trying to do with something relative new, you don't fear much. Like over here, you you speak to other people, they reject you or they say that it's not gonna work or they don't practice that kind of management. So probably not even ten percent of farmers are reaching out. So I don't know the exact percentage, but you know that not even the ten percent of the food we consume is regenerative. So it's kinda like in a new thing. It's getting back to a root But you you gotta know it's hard and and it's okay to be hard. And we just gotta tough it out and figure it out, be smart about it. I completely agree. 0:25:11 And and speaking of hard things or things that took a little while, let's talk about your electric fencing walls that you had for a while. How did you start getting your cows to stay in? So when you showed up, they were where they were supposed to be? Well, first off, I I started with Polywire and change the Poly break. They just blew past by it. They wouldn't see it. And I will well, we recommend If you're using ply wire, use white ply wire. Because the yellow one, you can't see it. And if you can't see it, you can't see it, you know. So the first thing it started you've seen everything straight line. Because I figured out that straight line is what works best. And sometimes I would do corners with the same same wire, same polybrate. And down how round things don't work, I just use one reel. Like, if I'm doing this, I I do a rectangle, so I use one different reel for each side. And that's that's the way I found to work best. And and also, I will try a really hard time on hanging my rails. 0:26:23 I started using one named hybrid glass poles. I changed everything to fiberglass posts because I start I I when I started out, I used the the rods, the three eight rod, and I used to use the insulators with it one of the bad things about insulators is that you get that friction with your wire and it and and it helps it pump once you get a little bit of pressure. Also, the the steel rod, they once there's a little bit of pressure, they they bent Oh, that's that's not good. Your your poly wire is gonna start slipping out on there. Problem you can spray it with that is that your wire touches your steel rod and you get a a ground. Your wire gets grounded. And when you're starting, it's really important that your cows get shocked. And like I said before now, I I only need to turn in my turn on my charger and they're gonna respect that line. So that's really important for me. 0:27:23 I changed my my fuel rods two hybrid two three eight hybrid glass lock. I found out that you don't need more than that four feet of four feet tall ones. Because at first, I bought sixty towels and they ended up cutting them out. Oh, yes. I started using the yellow king co ones. And I I don't wanna say anything against CanCo, but they break really easily. So I started using power flex, power glass flop, they're gray. I found out they're they're really resistant, so they're flexible. They won't bend like a like a steel rod imagine I'm all excited because I ordered my private glass rock and I ordered my new poly braid because I used to use poly wire and I ordered my my my reels because before my reels, my my gear reels, I used to use those extension core reels you know, the orange ones you used for this extension cord. 0:28:21 I used to work with those. And that was not easy. I imagine trying to pick up two hundred meters of poly wire with an extension cord reel, that's no easy job. Oh, no. It wouldn't be. And as soon as they get in, I figured out your fiberglass rods don't come with the clips. So if you're gonna order your fiberglass rods, remember to order your clips because you're not gonna be away use. Key those are all of the things that come up with experience. Yeah. I'm sure that a a gear grill versus those extension cord deals is a big difference. 0:28:59 And then your fiberglass, you were talking about using the steel ones. If a cow does hit your fence with those steel ones and it gets set, Poly wire, poly braid over against it, you've grounded out your fence. Though I can see how the fiberglass helps you greatly, and getting you on the right path. So with your fiberglass pose, you're using an insulator as well, or how are you hooking the wire to them? The clips are really nice because you just put your wire in it and it doesn't pop back back up. But you need to imit with your hand, you can easily get it out. But with pressure, it doesn't pop out or anything because with the insulator, sometimes you'll get that part that polybray or that wire that he used to just pop out of it or or even if if you get pressure from cows, you're gonna see your insulator flying ten feet over you. Another bad thing about insulator. And the clip holds on really tightly to your fiberglass. So with your fiberglass, the the most essential thing in my view is that the first thing you need to do is lay out your your poly brake or your wire, whatever you use, do it in a straight line. And then after that, put your rod because once you put your your your wire and you put a little bit of pressure, you're gonna see how your fiberglass is gonna start your bend. Very good. 0:30:25 Christian, let's try and pull up here. I pulled up the PowerFlex website. Are you using the sun guard fiberglass bowl? Yeah. Those ones are the the ones I use. I think four feet are are enough. I have big frame cow. I use branches brief, so they're kinda big. And and I found out that four feet are are enough. Oh, yeah. Can you bring up a interesting topic there? For your cattle, you're using Brinavess cattle? Yes. 0:30:52 So when my when my parents started a a Brinavess movement started around here in Chihuahua and off and other parts of Mexico or the US. But Branded started really getting big over here. That was because they had a a big spring. So brand gift is three eight Brammer, which is a breed they use mostly in Latin America, South America. Because of its resistance to heat and a tolerance heat really good and and parasites. And in its fifth eight angus So with the fifth eight eight angios, you get that quality meat, and then you get really strong mother instinct. 0:31:34 So when that kinda, like, movement start over here, my my parents got into brand new style, And ever since we we've been using it, we don't have any trouble with them. I just don't like the big frame. So what we we started to do is we we started to adapt our our breed to it having smaller frame being shorter cows and horsebacking. So what what we did what we did was we bought a shorter bull's and all of the big cows that we have, we we started some of them and got get rid of them. So we we're we're very currently on the prices process of adapting our our breed and to making it a little bit shorter. And I think around the brand new community, there's most people are doing that. They're figuring out that bigger frame continues more more grass and you only produce one cap as any other cow does So that from that point, it makes sense to to barrier breed and and make it shorter. I think I see that happening in a lot of breeds that moderation. 0:32:43 But you do bring up a good point that when you're selecting your bulls You gotta make sure you're finding a bowl that fits what you're wanting. Rather, And I know most people in our our circle are not show people, but show people's got one list of criteria You're doing regenity bag. You've got a different list. A traditional rancher in my area has a different list. You've gotta make sure you get a animal with genetics that's going to work for you. Yes. But I I think it it more it's more Moly has to deal with adaptation. Yes. You can get your account to adapt And and I know there are certain breach that will work better on on certain areas, and that makes total sense But even though you get that brief for that scenario, you have to adapt it to to whatever you're doing. 0:33:41 So it's not just buying that breed that works that works in your area. It's adapting it to your situation, to your grasses because we have another ranch in and that's more in in La Sierra at Chihuahua, which is mountains region. So if we take a cow from this region, It's just thirty minutes away, you know, five kilometers away of of difference. And if you take a cow that we've graced over here in in the grassland, and take it over to a mountain. It's gonna die because it's not that there's body to do that certain region. And it's the same thing picture for a most part, you get the same humidity, you get dimly graphic, and everything is just the the change of terrain. So what we do is we send this hi first over to the to the mountain when they're at that edge where they can adapt and they adapt their body and they change it completely to the ones that we have already joined the government. You you can see it. You you can see their legs being way stronger their their bones and everything tough and tough because they have to be up in the mountain, going up to eat and coming down to get a water from the river and all that adaptation and you adapting your tell for what you want, probably any percent of it, the breed can be to my view, it can be twenty percent of it. Because I think if someone directly knows well how to do how to ranch well and get probably most of the brief breathes that are around here and make them work on on this certain area. Very good. Very good. 0:35:19 Christian, when we think about what you're going what you're doing on your farm, where do you see see it going in the future? You know, I'm really ambitious. I have a vision of what I want the ranch to to be honestly. I see fifty thousand head hurt. If you ask me what I want, that's I I wanna keep growing and and And you know, we all have to regenerate farmers. I think we have to have those kind of issues because that that just means that we're helping out the world. As I said before, soil help, harvesting, cleaner air, all of the good stuff that comes with the regenerative gracing and really the regenerate ag And all we are doing is helping out the environment, our ecosystem, and producing quality food. That's one of my one of my main goals to keep producing quality food and keep helping out the environment. But we can't do that and we cannot we can't affect the world that much if we stay small. So I'm really ambitious with my dream, but I have a big vision for for the future in the range. And that's where where I wanna grow it. 0:36:28 And it makes sense that once you get your your your range to be really profitable for you to start growing. As I said before, last year, we bought tons of Deep tons and tons. And this year, we haven't used diesel. We haven't used feed. We haven't used our our time to do all those things. And and and that little chain starts getting bigger and bigger, and that's where you see it, you're right to be more profitable. And then you get to the point where where you have to increase your herd size and then you start going and then probably you buy another ranch or probably you start raining down of other properties, and that starts escalating. It's gonna be like a big snowball. I'm big on that, but before that anything that happens, we gotta work hard, and we gotta make things work correctly and focus on the details. 0:37:19 Oh, I think that's excellent. You know, for some people, they wanna stay the size they are, they just they wanna do what they can do and not not continue to grow And there's certain good things about that, but also there's good things about having an ambitious goal like that. You know, you put it out there and you're headed for it. And the great thing is even if you don't make, just think how far you will have gone, So I like your ambitious goal, and I think you'll be great. 0:37:51 Like I mentioned before, I I listen to a lot of motivation also if I I'll listen to a lot of entrepreneurs that are doing it big and and are sharing their their experiences and everything. And one of them that if you're not growing, you're dying. That that can be a little bit harsh, you say. But if you're not taking over and growing and being better and and doing everything to be excellent and and grow your business, somebody's gonna take over over your spot. We gotta think about it that way too. We gotta we gotta fight for what we we we want. And also one of the problems that I see college that most people see their their ranch as a as a lifestyle, which it is, but it's also your business. And so that's why you gotta take the business approach to it. Because it is a business. That's where that's where you get your money from. That's where you get your food from and everything. So we we gotta see the business size update you so that we can survive and so that we can be better every day. Exactly right. If we're if we're not profitable and being successful at the business of our farm our farm will cease to exist. 0:39:06 Christian, I've really enjoyed our conversation thus far. But it's time we transition into our famous four questions we ask every guest. Same four questions. We ask everyone and we kinda stole the idea from the bigger pockets podcast. Mhmm. And our first question is, Watch your favorite grazing grass related book or resource. 0:39:31 The holistic management by by all the savory. It made a lot of things clear for I mean, I I didn't read before this year. I started reading books and that was one of the of the ones that I that I read. And I figured out that there's a lot of information in books that that you can offline videos. So that one really changed things for me. But I will also recommend take great talk by Dana Rogers. He's a really big advocate on on helping me, regenerated ranking and all the how back, and I will really commend for for all the listeners to look at that book, to read that book because it explains a lot of things that we don't realize as farmers from the meat and the health point of view. And she has a lot of great info in Instagram and all that, and and I really like that book. Very good. I'm trying to think of five I think I've heard of the book. I have not read that book. So very good, my wife will be excited. I have another book to read. Yeah. You should really look into that one. She puts all her diagram that she puts on that that on the book. She put an Instagram. She dissects her dissects them a little bit. And I I learned a lot about Cowal with that with that book, especially in. Oh, great. I will have to look her up on Instagram. And for everyone else, we will put links in our show notes, so you'll have access to this information as well. 0:40:57 Our second question, what tool could you not live without on your farm? Every time I listen to your podcast, I think to myself, this one too. And it's my little man. I'm still useful for for every situation. I'm actually done that I probably never heard anyone say that, but is that it's like you have your knife, you have your your pliers, you have your wire cutters, you have your your screwdriver, all of that. Very good. I have not I'm trying to think back. I don't know that I've used one or even have one. But I've heard that different people really love theirs. There there's different brands, but it's the same concept with with you have pliers in your in your in your pocket practically and you have your knife and you have different sizes of knives and and all that. It's probably the do I use the most in the ranch or or or that gets me out of those picky situations? Oh, yes. 0:41:56 Our third question, What would you tell someone just getting started? And I think we covered a little bit of that, but what would you tell someone? It's gonna be really hard. It's gonna be hard. And that's okay, and that's a good thing. But the other thing, as we mentioned, is that, quote, Don't do things over and over again because you're gonna get the same result. So try to figure out what's the little thing that that that you're doing wrong and you're gonna you're gonna see different results. Very good, Christian. 0:42:27 And Christian, where can others find out more about you? I have my Instagram page full range. I mostly put storage because I don't have a lot of time to make a good post. But what I'm trying to do is put every single detail of the things that I used and do on the ranch that affected me while while I was getting started. So I'm I'm trying to put up every deal little detail on my electric fences on what brands I use on water strategies and use and all that. I'm gonna put that little by little. I want people to learn from my mistakes and to actually get their operation, get started faster than I did. Because if I would have known all this before, I would have saved a lot of money and I would have saved a lot of time. Very good. I encourage everyone to go check out his Instagram, and we'll have a link in the show notes. 0:43:22 Christian, we really appreciate you coming on and sharing about your journey thus far, and we wish you luck in the future. Thank you very much, Kjell, and thanks for inviting me. I'll leave on time with you here. You're listening to the Grasing Grass Podcast. Helping grass farmers learn from grass farmers, and every episode features a grass farmer in their operation. You can find a Grasing Grass podcast on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, and we encourage you to share our post. Are you a grass farmer? Would you like to share on the podcast about your journey and what you're doing on your farm? Go to grazinggrass dot com and click on the b r guest link. We are looking for grass farmers. Until next time, keep on grazing grass.