00:00:00

Cal: Welcome to the Grazing Grass Podcast,

00:00:01

Cal: episode 114.

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Brooks: Surround yourself with people that are

00:00:05

Brooks: already doing it, that are like-minded.

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Cal: You're listening to the Grazing Grass

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Cal: Podcast, sharing information and stories of

00:00:12

Cal: grass-based livestock production utilizing

00:00:14

Cal: regenerative practices.

00:00:17

Cal: I'm your host, Cal Hardage.

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Cal: You're growing more than grass.

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Cal: You're growing a healthier ecosystem to

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Cal: help your cattle thrive in their

00:00:28

Cal: environment.

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Cal: You're growing your livelihood by

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Cal: increasing your carrying capacity and

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Cal: reducing your operating costs.

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Cal: You're growing stronger communities and a

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Cal: legacy to last generations, to last

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Cal: generations.

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Cal: The grazing management decisions you make

00:00:48

Cal: today impact everything from the soil

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Cal: beneath your feet to the community all

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Cal: around you.

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Cal: That's why the Noble Research Institute

00:00:54

Cal: created their Essentials of Regenerative

00:00:57

Cal: Grazing course to teach ranchers like you

00:01:01

Cal: easy to follow techniques to quickly assess

00:01:04

Cal: your forage, production and infrastructure

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Cal: capacity in order to begin grazing more

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Cal: efficiently.

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Cal: Together, they can help you grow not only a

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Cal: healthier operation, but a legacy that

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Cal: lasts.

00:01:20

Cal: Learn more on their website at nobleorg

00:01:24

Cal: slash grazing.

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Cal: It's n-o-b-l-e dot org.

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Cal: Forward slash grazing.

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Cal: On today's episode we have Brooks and Abby

00:01:36

Cal: Bowser of Bowser Family Farms and they come

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Cal: on.

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Cal: They share about their journey, about what

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Cal: they're doing on their farm cow, calf,

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Cal: finishing beef and pork, as well as crops

00:01:50

Cal: For the overgrazing section.

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Cal: We dive into a little bit more about social

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Cal: media marketing.

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Cal: The bonus segment for our grazing grass

00:01:58

Cal: insiders is about on the farm store.

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Cal: So very interesting segment there,

00:02:05

Cal: excellent episode.

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Cal: However, before we talk to Brooks and Abby,

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Cal: 10 seconds about my farm.

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Cal: If you drive by my farm you might say I am

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Cal: a good grass farmer right now.

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Cal: I think most farms you drive by this time

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Cal: of year in my area people can say that

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Cal: there's still some that's over grazed and

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Cal: there's tons better I can do, but this time

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Cal: of year it's always easy to think we're

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Cal: doing better than we are.

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Cal: Not to be negative, but just keep working.

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Cal: Do a little bit better each day.

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Cal: 10 seconds about the podcast.

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Cal: On next week's episode we have August

00:02:42

Cal: Horseman.

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Cal: He was on back on episode 15.

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Cal: So you might want to catch that or go back

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Cal: and review it.

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Cal: We catch up with him next week.

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Cal: Find out what he's been up to and how

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Cal: things are progressing on his journey.

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Cal: Enough of all that.

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Cal: Let's talk to Brooks and Abby.

00:03:02

Cal: Brooks and Abby, we're excited for you to

00:03:04

Cal: be here today.

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Cal: Welcome to the Grazing Grass podcast.

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Brooks: Yeah, thank you.

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Brooks: We're excited to be here too.

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Brooks: This is our first podcast.

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Brooks: We've been a listener for a few months now.

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Brooks: Nick Rogers turned us on to it.

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Abby: Yep, we're excited to be here.

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Abby: Can't wait to chat with you.

00:03:22

Cal: Wonderful To get started.

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Cal: Let's just start by telling us a little bit

00:03:26

Cal: about yourself and your operation.

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Brooks: So I'm a first-generation farmer.

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Brooks: My grandpa gave me the opportunity to

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Brooks: manage his small farm when I was in high

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Brooks: school.

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Brooks: I went to Michigan State and I got out of

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Brooks: there and I met Abby yeah.

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Brooks: So we came back on the farm.

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Brooks: My grandpa gave me the opportunity to run

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Brooks: the farm for ourselves and then, yeah,

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Brooks: started doing everything pretty

00:03:47

Brooks: conventionally, Got on YouTube, found Gabe

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Brooks: Brown, and the rest is history.

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Brooks: After that, as far as the whole grass

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Brooks: farming and regenerative farming journey,

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Brooks: and a little bit about my background.

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Abby: We couldn't be more opposite.

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Abby: I grew up on a farm.

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Abby: I'm a fifth-generation farmer.

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Abby: We had beef cattle and we had a market

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Abby: garden.

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Abby: So we went to farmer's markets and had

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Abby: vegetables and cut flowers and we had a

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Abby: retail store on farm as well.

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Abby: And I did 4-H and I've been a part of the

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Abby: cattle business and when I met him he

00:04:20

Abby: looked like he was a farmer.

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Abby: I thought he was a farmer.

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Abby: But as we got going, it's been a very

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Abby: interesting experience with someone that's

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Abby: I was raised really conventional and he's

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Abby: had a lot of interesting ideas about

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Abby: agriculture, and so the balance between

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Abby: that has been very fun.

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Abby: But I'm completely on board now after

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Abby: seeing, going to the Soil Health Academies

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Abby: and reading some of the books and listening

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Abby: to the podcast.

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Abby: It all makes sense.

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Abby: But it took me a little bit to get here.

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Cal: Oh yeah, when you've got that background of

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Cal: however you're doing it, it's much tougher.

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Cal: I think Tom Lester said that he'd rather

00:04:58

Cal: make a farmer out of a boy off the streets

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Cal: of Tokyo versus a conventional farmer.

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Abby: Yeah.

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Cal: Something like that.

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Cal: I'm sure I'm messing that quote up, but

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Cal: that's okay, someone will fix it.

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Abby: Get the trust yeah.

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Cal: So let's just jump back on your side,

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Cal: Brooks, for a second.

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Cal: You got this opportunity with your

00:05:16

Cal: grandpa's land to do some things.

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Cal: What prompted you to do that?

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Brooks: To just farm in general.

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Cal: Yes.

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Brooks: Yeah, obviously, being a high schooler, you

00:05:27

Brooks: don't always know what you want to do.

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Brooks: But he came to me and said do you want to

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Brooks: get serious about this?

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Brooks: And I said, absolutely.

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Brooks: I didn't know anything about it but it

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Brooks: sounded pretty intriguing.

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Brooks: So we went to Michigan State and fell in

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Brooks: love with farming, met all kinds of friends

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Brooks: still friends that I have now today just

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Brooks: absolutely fell in love with it.

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Brooks: As a kid did you think you would be doing

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Brooks: farming?

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Brooks: Not at all.

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Brooks: My grandpa first asked me, I'm like what be

00:05:52

Brooks: a farmer

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Brooks: no way.

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Brooks: My dad owned a body shop and I thought

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Brooks: maybe I'll learn how to paint cars.

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Brooks: But once I started on the farm, grandpa

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Brooks: gave me a lot of leeway and learning some

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Brooks: stuff.

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Brooks: I felt like I had some ownership in the

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Brooks: farm.

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Brooks: Yeah, just fell in love with it, made a lot

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Brooks: of mistakes.

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Cal: That happens, abby, did you know you were

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Cal: always going to come back to the farm?

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Abby: I did not at all.

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Abby: Obviously, growing up with a market garden,

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Abby: we had a whole acre of vegetables and

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Abby: flowers and it felt a little bit more like

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Abby: slavery than it should have at that time,

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Abby: and so I went to school and then I ended up

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Abby: changing my major to ag business management

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Abby: and then thought I would go the business

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Abby: route sales.

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Abby: I had internships with chemical companies,

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Abby: so I was selling fertilizer and chemicals

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Abby: and for my internships did a lot of crop

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Abby: scouting and extremely conventional world

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Abby: and thought I would go that route.

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Abby: And then, obviously, choosing to stay in a

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Abby: small town with your fiance at the time,

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Abby: the job pool got a lot smaller and so I

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Abby: ended up taking a job as a high school ag

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Abby: teacher.

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Abby: So we did that for about four years and

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Abby: then, now and then I started my own flour

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Abby: business.

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Abby: So I'm actually a florist and a flour

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Abby: farmer.

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Abby: And that was around the time we had kids

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Abby: and COVID and we decided staying at home

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Abby: for me and doing my own business and

00:07:19

Abby: working on the farm too was a better option.

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Abby: I turned out just like my mom, even though

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Abby: I didn't think that was going to happen.

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Abby: So now I'm raising flowers and selling beef,

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Abby: so just like I did when.

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Abby: I was younger.

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Cal: There you go.

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Cal: It's often it's these journeys.

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Cal: How we end up here is always very

00:07:36

Cal: interesting and, whether or not we

00:07:38

Cal: anticipated it or not, I find fascinating.

00:07:44

Cal: Brooks, once you got started, you were

00:07:47

Cal: going to school.

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Cal: When were you introduced to Gabe Brown, and

00:07:50

Cal: how did that journey go?

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Brooks: I want to say that was probably like in

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Brooks: 2018, 17, something like that.

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Brooks: We were struggling on the farm financially.

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Brooks: It just really wasn't making financial

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Brooks: sense.

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Brooks: I was starting to go in debt and I was

00:08:04

Brooks: working part-time for a guy that spread

00:08:05

Brooks: fertilizer and lime.

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Brooks: And I listened to a podcast on YouTube and

00:08:10

Brooks: a guy named Gabe Brown came up, so I

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Brooks: listened to it and just a light bulb went

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Brooks: off.

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Brooks: Oh my gosh, I think I can make it happen.

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Brooks: This does make sense.

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Brooks: Before that, I never heard the word

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Brooks: regenerative ag.

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Brooks: You know I was familiar with cover crops to

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Brooks: some extent and we experienced with them a

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Brooks: little bit.

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Brooks: Um yeah, but once I heard gabe talk, I

00:08:29

Brooks: bought his book right away.

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Brooks: I read that it was the first book that I've

00:08:31

Brooks: ever finished, oh yeah very good,

00:08:35

Brooks: congratulations on that yeah, I've read

00:08:38

Brooks: some sense.

00:08:38

Brooks: Wasn't much of a reader before that and it

00:08:40

Brooks: just made total sense.

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Brooks: And what was it?

00:08:42

Brooks: 2019?

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Brooks: I think we had the opportunity to go out to.

00:08:45

Brooks: Gabe was supposed to have a soil health

00:08:47

Brooks: academy in his farm.

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Brooks: It got canceled because of drought.

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Brooks: Um, we still went out there and we got a

00:08:51

Brooks: private tour of gabe's farm.

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Brooks: He gave us a lot of good advice and kind of

00:08:56

Brooks: lit a fire underneath us that we really

00:08:57

Brooks: needed and that gave us the idea that we

00:09:00

Brooks: could make it work.

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Cal: At that time, when you all went out there,

00:09:05

Cal: abby, were you on board?

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Abby: I was.

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Abby: I definitely was trying to be a supportive

00:09:10

Abby: wife, I think in the beginning we were

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Abby: doing it together.

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Abby: I'm not quiet by any means, so I was very

00:09:17

Abby: much what if we did this?

00:09:17

Abby: And we've been kind of doing it together

00:09:17

Abby: since we were doing it together.

00:09:18

Abby: I'm not quiet by any means, so I was very

00:09:18

Abby: much what if we did this?

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Abby: And we've been kind of doing it together

00:09:20

Abby: since we were 20, which is crazy.

00:09:23

Abby: So we've been trying to figure it out

00:09:24

Abby: together.

00:09:26

Abby: So when this whole thing came about, it was

00:09:29

Abby: kind of a newer movement.

00:09:31

Abby: We didn't know anyone that was doing it.

00:09:33

Abby: He found it on YouTube so I was like I'll

00:09:36

Abby: buy in, let's do it.

00:09:36

Abby: He found it on YouTube so I was like let's

00:09:37

Abby: all buy in, let's, let's do it.

00:09:38

Abby: We made it a family vacation to go out to

00:09:40

Abby: North Dakota and so we were like, all right,

00:09:42

Abby: let's do it.

00:09:42

Abby: But after hearing Gabe, he's just so well

00:09:44

Abby: spoken and obviously knows what he's doing

00:09:46

Abby: and obviously does, does all these things

00:09:49

Abby: and it has been successful.

00:09:51

Abby: So it started to get more in my head.

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Abby: I think what really solidified it was just

00:09:57

Abby: when he took it the next level, brooks.

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Abby: We ended up actually implementing the

00:10:01

Abby: things and then just seeing them out of

00:10:03

Abby: nature that it's just been a night and day

00:10:06

Abby: difference.

00:10:07

Abby: There's butterflies out there, there's just

00:10:09

Abby: these giant swarms of birds.

00:10:12

Abby: It's just so much more enjoyable to be at

00:10:13

Abby: the farm.

00:10:14

Abby: And then I've taken several soil health or

00:10:17

Abby: not soil health, but soil biology classes

00:10:19

Abby: in college, and so that part made sense to

00:10:22

Abby: me.

00:10:23

Abby: I think what I was struggling with was the

00:10:25

Abby: cattle part, where it was like let nature

00:10:28

Abby: deal with the health issues of the cattle.

00:10:30

Abby: That part was hard for me to transition to.

00:10:33

Abby: We don't even treat for flies anymore, we

00:10:35

Abby: just let the birds do it.

00:10:42

Abby: And that took a minute for me to are you

00:10:43

Abby: sure, are you sure?

00:10:43

Abby: But slowly, just letting him obsess about

00:10:44

Abby: it and research it and let him implement it.

00:10:45

Abby: I do think it helped that I had two kids in

00:10:48

Abby: four years, so I was like I'm not really

00:10:51

Abby: paying attention, so busy.

00:10:52

Abby: Yeah, yeah.

00:10:54

Abby: So he's, he's.

00:10:55

Abby: I'm so proud of him.

00:10:56

Abby: He's definitely taken on all this, and it

00:10:58

Abby: definitely helps that he was first

00:10:59

Abby: generation, because I think I would have

00:11:01

Abby: been stuck in my own loop.

00:11:03

Cal: Yeah, very easy to do.

00:11:05

Cal: So when you all went out to Gabe Brown's

00:11:07

Cal: farm and you came back, what did you

00:11:09

Cal: implement or what did you do immediately?

00:11:12

Brooks: Yeah, our biggest issue was not maybe the

00:11:15

Brooks: biggest issue, but one of our issues was

00:11:16

Brooks: diversity in our pastures.

00:11:17

Brooks: We just took an old hay field that we'd

00:11:19

Brooks: planted and it was two species basically.

00:11:22

Brooks: So he gave us some ideas some pulse grazing.

00:11:25

Brooks: You set up a small paddock, get some high

00:11:27

Brooks: stock density for a little while and then

00:11:30

Brooks: you give them the rest of the paddock for

00:11:32

Brooks: the rest of the day and then long rest

00:11:33

Brooks: periods.

00:11:34

Brooks: So after that we started giving a lot

00:11:35

Brooks: longer rest periods.

00:11:36

Brooks: It was a 30-day rotation and now we're

00:11:38

Brooks: pushing 45, sometimes 60, which comes with

00:11:41

Brooks: its challenges with that hay field.

00:11:43

Brooks: Sometimes the forage can get rank on us.

00:11:45

Brooks: That's helped.

00:11:46

Brooks: Also, too, we're feeding corn and we still

00:11:48

Brooks: are.

00:11:49

Brooks: But he gave us some ideas and pushed us to

00:11:51

Brooks: to be able to raise our feeder cattle more

00:11:53

Brooks: on grass than grain.

00:11:54

Brooks: And and also you said, if you quit feeding

00:11:57

Brooks: grain tomorrow, you're going to make more

00:11:58

Brooks: money.

00:11:59

Brooks: But our biggest concern, or my biggest

00:12:02

Brooks: concern, is our product, to be able to

00:12:04

Brooks: finish cattle on grass.

00:12:06

Brooks: So we're trying to, trying to go slowly

00:12:07

Brooks: into it and we have.

00:12:08

Brooks: We've every year we've cut back on grain

00:12:11

Brooks: more and more and this year we'll we're

00:12:13

Brooks: still going to feed grain, but it'll be a

00:12:15

Brooks: lot less.

00:12:17

Cal: Oh yeah, and we're still going to feed

00:12:17

Cal: grain, but it'll be a lot less oh yeah, and,

00:12:18

Cal: and it's a journey and there is so much of

00:12:20

Cal: it.

00:12:20

Cal: That's an art.

00:12:22

Cal: So, yes, taking it slow, learning as you go,

00:12:24

Cal: reflect on what's happening.

00:12:26

Cal: A wonderful plan there now.

00:12:29

Cal: When you got your started working with your

00:12:31

Cal: grandpa's land, were you just farming that,

00:12:34

Cal: or do you have some livestock too?

00:12:36

Brooks: yeah, we had livestock since day one.

00:12:38

Brooks: That was what I started we had 20 oh, you

00:12:40

Brooks: started with livestock cows.

00:12:42

Brooks: Yeah, that was.

00:12:43

Brooks: Yeah, that's what that was the first thing

00:12:44

Brooks: that I started with.

00:12:45

Brooks: Yeah, so we had 20 acres of hay, 18 head of

00:12:47

Brooks: cattle.

00:12:47

Brooks: We direct marketed all those, but they were

00:12:49

Brooks: in a feedlot uh, feed and grain, which I'm

00:12:52

Brooks: very thankful that I started with the

00:12:53

Brooks: direct market business because it seems to

00:12:54

Brooks: be that seems to be a hard thing for people

00:12:55

Brooks: to get into.

00:12:55

Brooks: So I'm extremely thankful that I started

00:12:56

Brooks: with a direct market business because it

00:12:57

Brooks: seems to be that seems to be a hard thing

00:12:58

Brooks: for people to get into, so I'm extremely

00:12:59

Brooks: thankful that we already had that started.

00:13:02

Brooks: Then I went to MSU for beef cattle

00:13:04

Brooks: management.

00:13:04

Brooks: It was an ag tech program, so it was just a

00:13:06

Brooks: year, but I worked on a feedlot there.

00:13:08

Brooks: Oh yeah, I came back with the feedlot ideas

00:13:10

Brooks: in my mind.

00:13:11

Brooks: I went to North Dakota for an internship.

00:13:13

Brooks: They were very conventional and also they

00:13:16

Brooks: had a cow-calf operation, but unfortunately

00:13:18

Brooks: I didn't get to work with the cows a lot

00:13:19

Brooks: there.

00:13:20

Abby: We got the crop bug.

00:13:21

Abby: I feel like we were like then we were

00:13:23

Abby: raising our own corn and soybeans for our

00:13:25

Abby: feed.

00:13:26

Abby: And then we were like everyone around us is

00:13:28

Abby: a crop farmer.

00:13:29

Abby: So we definitely were like, okay, we need a

00:13:32

Abby: combine.

00:13:32

Abby: And then it started to get very heavy crops

00:13:36

Abby: and very conventional yeah yeah.

00:13:38

Brooks: So when I got back from north dakota,

00:13:40

Brooks: grandpa had a total of 350 acres.

00:13:42

Brooks: I started to farm all of it, all very

00:13:44

Brooks: conventionally and my grandpa's big on he's

00:13:47

Brooks: an organic guy, so we had any feed that we

00:13:50

Brooks: raised with the cattle.

00:13:51

Brooks: We would moldboard, plow, disc plant and

00:13:54

Brooks: then cultivate and we struggled at trying

00:13:57

Brooks: to make that work and that's how I got

00:13:59

Brooks: introduced to cover crops because we

00:14:01

Brooks: thought maybe that would help with some

00:14:02

Brooks: weeds and stuff.

00:14:04

Brooks: And it really didn't help a lot.

00:14:06

Brooks: Maybe we didn't give enough time, I don't

00:14:08

Brooks: know.

00:14:08

Brooks: I was doing the best I could with the

00:14:09

Brooks: knowledge I had at the time to erase things

00:14:10

Brooks: perfectly.

00:14:12

Brooks: So then, obviously, I got in contact with

00:14:14

Brooks: Gabe and started no-till and using cover

00:14:16

Brooks: crops, but what comes with that, obviously,

00:14:20

Brooks: is some herbicides too Right.

00:14:22

Abby: Which, at the time, we were all in on.

00:14:23

Abby: But then, I think, as we got older, we

00:14:26

Abby: started looking at it in a more financial

00:14:28

Abby: sense too and we were like, okay, if we're

00:14:30

Abby: going to make this work, we really need to

00:14:33

Abby: perform financially.

00:14:34

Abby: And just looking at our input costs,

00:14:37

Abby: obviously as all farmers do you're like how

00:14:39

Abby: did this number get so big?

00:14:41

Abby: And then just trying to figure out how to

00:14:43

Abby: get that number down is basically where it

00:14:45

Abby: all came from, in a very simple sense.

00:14:47

Brooks: Yeah, it was extremely scary how much money

00:14:49

Brooks: we spent on the farm, especially being a

00:14:50

Brooks: small farm with that time, 25 out of cattle,

00:14:53

Brooks: 350 acres it was scary how much money that

00:14:57

Brooks: we were spending.

00:14:58

Cal: Oh yeah, so talk about just for a moment.

00:15:03

Cal: Talk about that process.

00:15:04

Cal: When you came back from Gabe Brown's and

00:15:06

Cal: you started implementing some different

00:15:08

Cal: grazing practices, you were and I believe

00:15:13

Cal: you still are feeding out cows using some

00:15:16

Cal: corn and stuff.

00:15:16

Cal: But talk about that process to go to lower

00:15:20

Cal: expenses.

00:15:21

Brooks: Obviously on the farming side, a diverse

00:15:23

Brooks: cover crop, diverse crop rotation.

00:15:27

Brooks: That was step number one on trying to cut

00:15:29

Brooks: back our inputs as far as the crops that we

00:15:31

Brooks: raised for our cattle.

00:15:32

Brooks: And then we found ourselves a lot of times

00:15:35

Brooks: in the middle of the summer feeding hay.

00:15:37

Brooks: We had a flail mower, we had green chop and

00:15:39

Brooks: feed and one day we got done baling hay and

00:15:44

Brooks: I grabbed about three, four bales and I

00:15:46

Brooks: hauled them from the hay field in to feed

00:15:48

Brooks: the cows in the middle of July and I

00:15:51

Brooks: thought why in the world are we doing this?

00:15:53

Brooks: At that time I didn't have any permanent

00:15:55

Brooks: fence up around the farm but my cows I got

00:15:58

Brooks: my cows pretty familiar with temporary

00:15:59

Brooks: fence on the piece.

00:16:01

Brooks: We ran around three quarters of it with

00:16:03

Brooks: temporary fence and anything that was

00:16:05

Brooks: growing we grazed our cows on, just so I

00:16:07

Brooks: didn't have to feed harvested feed.

00:16:10

Brooks: And then and then obviously we started

00:16:12

Brooks: after that.

00:16:13

Brooks: We started getting a little more familiar

00:16:14

Brooks: with adaptive grazing and trying to get

00:16:16

Brooks: more diversity in our pastures and moving

00:16:19

Brooks: once a day, twice a day, high stock density,

00:16:22

Brooks: giving certain areas different rest periods

00:16:24

Brooks: to see what might happen.

00:16:27

Cal: And one thing Abby mentioned earlier

00:16:29

Cal: butterflies, birds and stuff.

00:16:32

Cal: How soon did you notice a change on your

00:16:34

Cal: pastures?

00:16:36

Brooks: I didn't pay attention a lot because I

00:16:39

Brooks: guess, to give you a little more backstory

00:16:40

Brooks: too, at the main farm we only had 15 acres

00:16:42

Brooks: of pasture for 25 to 30 head of cattle, so

00:16:47

Brooks: it wasn't obviously it was way overstocked.

00:16:51

Brooks: So we started implementing that and then

00:16:52

Brooks: obviously putting fence up around the farm

00:16:54

Brooks: to give that pasture more rest and I would

00:16:56

Brooks: say probably in year two we started to

00:16:58

Brooks: notice a big difference in just the health

00:16:59

Brooks: of the pasture and maybe after three years

00:17:02

Brooks: you start noticing birds.

00:17:04

Brooks: Even though we weren't looking before,

00:17:05

Brooks: you're like I don't think these birds were

00:17:07

Brooks: here before and now you can go out and I

00:17:11

Brooks: would say two to three years you started

00:17:14

Brooks: noticing just some wildlife diversity out

00:17:16

Brooks: there and it was just it is.

00:17:19

Brooks: You can shut down the side-by-side.

00:17:21

Brooks: Me and my oldest daughter like to climb on

00:17:22

Brooks: the roof after we move the cows to a new

00:17:24

Brooks: pasture and just look and you see the birds,

00:17:26

Brooks: you see some flies, the butterflies, and

00:17:29

Brooks: the neighbor next to us has honeybees and

00:17:30

Brooks: the honeybees are everywhere over there.

00:17:33

Cal: Oh yes.

00:17:34

Brooks: And then me and my daughter really like to

00:17:35

Brooks: look for worms, now there, oh yes.

00:17:37

Brooks: And then me and my daughter really like to

00:17:37

Brooks: look for worms now and it was oh yeah, I

00:17:38

Brooks: would I would say two to three years.

00:17:39

Brooks: We started just noticing things and then

00:17:41

Brooks: obviously it just keep, continues to

00:17:43

Brooks: progress after that I, I think and this is

00:17:47

Brooks: going to be my opinion I think those.

00:17:49

Cal: That's one of those things you don't really

00:17:51

Cal: notice.

00:17:52

Cal: You don't notice the absence of it.

00:17:54

Cal: Really you're not.

00:17:55

Cal: You're out there just doing what you need

00:17:57

Cal: to do, and then when you start getting more

00:18:00

Cal: wildlife in and stuff, it's not.

00:18:02

Cal: Oh yeah, I saw three birds today, or

00:18:05

Cal: whatever, but at some point it becomes wait,

00:18:08

Cal: did we have this before?

00:18:10

Cal: I don't recall all this yeah, we just

00:18:13

Cal: didn't.

00:18:13

Brooks: Regenerative agriculture it's ultimately a

00:18:15

Brooks: shift in mindset too.

00:18:17

Cal: It is yeah.

00:18:22

Brooks: If you don't know what to look for.

00:18:23

Brooks: You didn't look for it and the only thing I

00:18:24

Brooks: noticed was when I would get done.

00:18:24

Brooks: Cutting hay at the farm is all the bugs on

00:18:25

Brooks: my hay mower, but it was mostly potato leaf

00:18:27

Brooks: hoppers.

00:18:27

Brooks: It wasn't like a vast diversity of insects

00:18:30

Brooks: and spiders and stuff.

00:18:32

Cal: Right.

00:18:33

Brooks: And.

00:18:33

Abby: I think the switch to regenerative

00:18:34

Abby: agriculture is, like he said, a mindset,

00:18:37

Abby: but you're also just paying way more

00:18:39

Abby: attention to nature and you know, you're

00:18:42

Abby: just observing things.

00:18:43

Abby: We have pheasants again coming out.

00:18:46

Abby: We can constantly hear them and see them

00:18:47

Abby: running around and flying around is I'm a

00:18:56

Abby: pheasant hunter and we go out.

00:18:57

Brooks: My grandpa's got a place out in North

00:18:58

Brooks: Dakota.

00:18:58

Brooks: We go out there a year to pheasant hunt and

00:18:59

Brooks: you come back home and you might see one or

00:19:00

Brooks: two a year, but over the last two years

00:19:02

Brooks: we'll go out there in the spring, shut the

00:19:04

Brooks: side by side off and you just hear a cackle,

00:19:06

Brooks: cackle oh yeah neighbors are commenting on

00:19:08

Brooks: it and they're really excited.

00:19:10

Brooks: People driving by the farm they'll see

00:19:12

Brooks: pheasants cross the road and it's like,

00:19:14

Brooks: okay, we're doing something right.

00:19:15

Cal: There's a reason why they're here oh yeah

00:19:16

Cal: there's nothing else around that's

00:19:18

Cal: attracted them, it's it's got to be what

00:19:19

Cal: we're doing on that subject, the we have

00:19:23

Cal: wild turkeys and we have a few around and

00:19:27

Cal: on the lease lands.

00:19:28

Cal: Just drive me crazy.

00:19:29

Cal: I want to see wild turkeys over there.

00:19:31

Cal: I've been managing a few years.

00:19:33

Cal: I'm hoping to get closer to getting some

00:19:35

Cal: wild turkeys in that area and it's right on

00:19:37

Cal: the edge of some brush and so we get some

00:19:40

Cal: nice edge area along with the grassy

00:19:43

Cal: savannah like area.

00:19:45

Cal: I am just watching for wild turkeys all the

00:19:47

Cal: time.

00:19:47

Brooks: I've yet to see them there, but I'm like

00:19:49

Brooks: they're going to be back yeah, we have a

00:19:52

Brooks: fair amount of wildlife in here in general,

00:19:54

Brooks: um, but just as far as upland birds,

00:19:56

Brooks: they're just habitat destruction.

00:19:58

Brooks: It's the only reason they used to be here,

00:19:59

Brooks: from my knowledge, everywhere, but

00:20:02

Brooks: everybody's taking fence rows out and

00:20:03

Brooks: plowing their land, and well, and our whole

00:20:06

Brooks: farm there's not very many trees because it

00:20:09

Brooks: used to be cropland, so it used to be one

00:20:11

Brooks: big field, and so it's not.

00:20:13

Abby: we're in the process of working with the

00:20:14

Abby: nrcs and we're going to be planting some

00:20:17

Abby: trees and getting windbreaks and some

00:20:19

Abby: habitat clusters for different birds and

00:20:22

Abby: things, but right now it's just a big old

00:20:24

Abby: flat field.

00:20:25

Brooks: Oh yeah, it's got a lot of grass growing,

00:20:27

Brooks: though, a lot of grass.

00:20:28

Cal: Yeah, good, yeah, Just for a moment.

00:20:32

Cal: Let's jump back and talk about where you're

00:20:34

Cal: located and what the land is mainly used

00:20:37

Cal: there for.

00:20:39

Brooks: Okay, yeah, so southern central Michigan.

00:20:41

Brooks: We're about an hour north of the

00:20:43

Brooks: Indiana-Ohio border, oh, okay.

00:20:46

Brooks: It's corn, soybeans, wheat, a lot of woods.

00:20:50

Brooks: We've got a fair amount of woods, small

00:20:52

Brooks: acreage fields.

00:20:54

Brooks: An extremely big field around here is 400

00:20:55

Brooks: acres, but most of them are 10 to 30 to 40

00:20:58

Brooks: sections oh yeah, not very many cattle.

00:21:02

Brooks: It's more like a hobby farm cattle country.

00:21:04

Brooks: There's a few here and there, but as far as

00:21:07

Brooks: getting any knowledge from any cattle

00:21:09

Brooks: farmers around here, it's been pretty tough,

00:21:12

Brooks: you know and where I think we're like right

00:21:13

Brooks: at the edge of the corn belt.

00:21:15

Abby: So we're like in a weird, weird spot a lot

00:21:18

Abby: of conventional corn and soybeans, but we

00:21:20

Abby: get a lot of rain, we get a lot of moisture,

00:21:22

Abby: yep, and, like you said, lots of woods.

00:21:24

Abby: So lots of farmers trying to take out fence

00:21:26

Abby: rows and take out all these trees and stuff

00:21:29

Abby: yes, you notice, I see this same thing here.

00:21:33

Cal: people go in and they've cleared, or

00:21:36

Cal: someone will buy a property and they'll go

00:21:38

Cal: in and they'll clear every tree off that

00:21:40

Cal: property and then it's only in the fence

00:21:43

Cal: rows and then it may change hands again, or

00:21:47

Cal: maybe they want to replace that fence and

00:21:49

Cal: they take a bulldozer and go down that

00:21:50

Cal: fence line and now quarter section.

00:21:54

Cal: Most land north of me is in bigger areas.

00:21:56

Cal: South of me it's not.

00:21:58

Cal: Now you've got this property void of trees.

00:22:01

Abby: I'm like wait why are we doing that?

00:22:04

Abby: Yeah, and especially in my world with

00:22:07

Abby: flower farming.

00:22:08

Abby: Obviously it's very close to the

00:22:11

Abby: regenerative movement.

00:22:12

Abby: We're constantly wanting habitat for bees

00:22:14

Abby: and birds and we want as much habitat as

00:22:16

Abby: possible with our flowers so that they can

00:22:18

Abby: pollinate and create.

00:22:20

Abby: And so for us, I'm really into right now

00:22:23

Abby: planting a lot of perennials and cutting

00:22:24

Abby: from those, and with that I would love if

00:22:27

Abby: every all the trees would have just stayed

00:22:28

Abby: there and have been established.

00:22:30

Abby: And now I'm planting new trees and new

00:22:33

Abby: bushes and new shrubs, and I've got five

00:22:35

Abby: years until I see the benefit, when I know

00:22:38

Abby: that our farm in the sixties had tons of

00:22:41

Abby: that and I wish they would have just stayed

00:22:43

Abby: there.

00:22:45

Abby: So it's very.

00:22:46

Abby: Our worlds are very similar in the farming

00:22:48

Abby: and the flower farming um to into the

00:22:51

Abby: regenerative movement, so that's something

00:22:53

Abby: that's been really cool to see too we do

00:22:57

Abby: have one really nice oak tree we do have

00:22:58

Abby: one.

00:22:59

Cal: Oh yeah, oh very good yeah so talking about

00:23:04

Cal: your cattle, and you went out there and you

00:23:06

Cal: put up some fence.

00:23:08

Cal: You just did temporary.

00:23:10

Cal: Have you gone back with more permanent

00:23:12

Cal: perimeter fencing?

00:23:13

Cal: How are you doing your fencing?

00:23:16

Brooks: yeah, so we fenced the entire farm.

00:23:18

Brooks: I think it was 2022.

00:23:20

Brooks: Um, we put up timeless post electric fence.

00:23:22

Brooks: All All our interior fences, for the most

00:23:25

Brooks: part, are temporary fence.

00:23:26

Brooks: At this point.

00:23:27

Brooks: That's probably just because of indecision

00:23:30

Brooks: by me I'm a little bit nervous to put a

00:23:32

Brooks: permanent fence up because I might not like

00:23:33

Brooks: it.

00:23:33

Brooks: I would like I want somebody to come down

00:23:36

Brooks: and give me some pointers on where I should

00:23:38

Brooks: put permanent fence, saying that we did get

00:23:42

Brooks: involved with the nrcs and we in the last

00:23:44

Brooks: two years we furnished.

00:23:45

Brooks: Now we put in 8 000 feet of water pipe and

00:23:48

Brooks: frost free hydrants, so we're a little bit

00:23:51

Brooks: stuck on where some of the fences would

00:23:52

Brooks: have to go, but it oh yeah, as far as

00:23:55

Brooks: interior fences, everything's temporary and

00:23:56

Brooks: it really does work pretty good for us and

00:24:00

Brooks: talk about like your daily moves yeah, yeah,

00:24:02

Brooks: so we're doing daily moves, the feeder

00:24:04

Brooks: cattle we're, so we're not feeding grain

00:24:06

Brooks: right now.

00:24:07

Brooks: In previous years we would feed grain from

00:24:09

Brooks: weaning all the way until finish, but over

00:24:11

Brooks: the last couple years we put them on

00:24:13

Brooks: pasture.

00:24:13

Brooks: We do daily moves.

00:24:14

Brooks: This year we're doing moves twice a day and

00:24:17

Brooks: we're not going to feed grain until the

00:24:18

Brooks: last 60 days.

00:24:20

Brooks: Oh yeah, and we also got a pens agro gate

00:24:24

Brooks: lifter or fence lifter, which I'm

00:24:26

Brooks: struggling with at this point, but from my

00:24:28

Brooks: understanding, there's a training process

00:24:30

Brooks: along with that, so we're just going to

00:24:31

Brooks: keep plugging away at it.

00:24:33

Brooks: Our cows are mostly once a day moves.

00:24:35

Brooks: Every once in a while, on the weekends,

00:24:36

Brooks: I'll I'll do some twice a day moves, try to

00:24:38

Brooks: do some high stock density and stuff what's

00:24:40

Brooks: our herd?

00:24:41

Abby: like we have our cow?

00:24:42

Brooks: calf yeah, we have our cow calf describe

00:24:45

Brooks: what we have going on today.

00:24:46

Cal: Yeah, we have two herds see, I should just

00:24:48

Cal: let abby run this so we have cow calf.

00:24:51

Brooks: We got 32 cow calf and then we got 40, 40

00:24:55

Brooks: feeder cattle that we're going to finish

00:24:57

Brooks: this year and then we do.

00:24:59

Brooks: I should mention we do have a pastured pork

00:25:00

Brooks: operation too oh, I didn't realize you had

00:25:03

Brooks: pork as well.

00:25:04

Brooks: Yeah.

00:25:04

Brooks: So we got in that by accident because

00:25:06

Brooks: during COVID all these big confinement

00:25:08

Brooks: operations were euthanizing animals and

00:25:10

Brooks: we've got a couple of friends in the pork

00:25:11

Brooks: industry and they said, hey, we got 18 pigs

00:25:14

Brooks: here we're going to euthanize.

00:25:15

Brooks: Do you want them?

00:25:16

Brooks: So we took that opportunity, which was a

00:25:18

Brooks: mess at first.

00:25:19

Brooks: We, which was a mess at first we put them

00:25:20

Brooks: on pasture.

00:25:21

Brooks: They were out there with the feeder cattle.

00:25:23

Brooks: It was entertaining and we learned a lot.

00:25:24

Brooks: We learned that they don't move or load

00:25:26

Brooks: like cows.

00:25:27

Brooks: That was probably the biggest issue we had,

00:25:30

Brooks: but overall it was pretty successful.

00:25:32

Brooks: We sold them right away.

00:25:33

Brooks: We made some good money.

00:25:35

Brooks: Part of the reason is we got them for free

00:25:37

Brooks: and there was demand for it, so we

00:25:40

Brooks: continued to do it after that.

00:25:40

Brooks: Last year was the first year that we would

00:25:42

Brooks: rotate them.

00:25:43

Brooks: We gave them a section every week.

00:25:45

Brooks: We had out on pasture fully.

00:25:48

Brooks: That came with some challenges, but I think

00:25:50

Brooks: overall we went and looked at the pasture

00:25:52

Brooks: the other day that they were in and it's

00:25:53

Brooks: recovering.

00:25:53

Brooks: We think it made some improvements and

00:25:55

Brooks: people seem to like the pork too and that

00:25:59

Brooks: first year they had all hernias.

00:26:03

Abby: So they had these giant basketball-sized

00:26:04

Abby: hernias and that's basically why, they were

00:26:06

Abby: going to get rid of them.

00:26:07

Brooks: They were ugly.

00:26:08

Abby: They were really bad, but when they got out

00:26:10

Abby: there, it was their first time being

00:26:11

Abby: outside, and so they were running around

00:26:14

Abby: like they were so excited.

00:26:15

Abby: And then, by the time they went to

00:26:17

Abby: slaughter, most of their hernias were gone,

00:26:19

Abby: which was like a really cool that sold me

00:26:22

Abby: on the pastured pork thing.

00:26:24

Brooks: That was like a really cool thing to see.

00:26:26

Brooks: Yeah, it was like a rehabilitation center

00:26:28

Brooks: for them, but then we obviously slaughtered

00:26:30

Brooks: them and sold them they had a good end of

00:26:32

Brooks: the life, though, yeah yeah, two things

00:26:35

Brooks: with that.

00:26:36

Cal: First, on your cattle are you buying

00:26:37

Cal: feeders in to, to feed out to or processing?

00:26:43

Brooks: yeah.

00:26:43

Brooks: So we had 26 calves last year.

00:26:45

Brooks: Demand is bigger than that, so we ended up

00:26:47

Brooks: buying another 17 feeder cattle and we're

00:26:50

Brooks: tossing around the idea.

00:26:51

Brooks: I just attended a marketing and economics

00:26:54

Brooks: workshop with Understanding Ag.

00:26:56

Brooks: I came out of that with really questioning

00:26:58

Brooks: the idea whether we should have our own

00:26:59

Brooks: cows or not.

00:27:00

Brooks: They gave us some decision calculators and

00:27:01

Brooks: Alan Williams I'm sure you're familiar with

00:27:02

Brooks: him.

00:27:02

Brooks: I asked him the biggest thing I idea

00:27:02

Brooks: whether we should have our own cows or not.

00:27:03

Brooks: They gave us some decision calculators and

00:27:04

Brooks: alan williams I'm sure you're familiar with

00:27:05

Brooks: him.

00:27:05

Brooks: I asked him my biggest thing I want to take

00:27:07

Brooks: out of this is is it worth us having our

00:27:09

Brooks: cows and rather than just buying feeders?

00:27:11

Brooks: And he laughed and he said 90 of the time

00:27:14

Brooks: for small producers it's not worth having

00:27:16

Brooks: your own cows.

00:27:17

Brooks: And also, we can hook you up with some good

00:27:19

Brooks: genetics.

00:27:20

Brooks: Don't believe that your genetics are

00:27:23

Brooks: superior to what's available out there.

00:27:25

Brooks: Yeah, we're really tossing the idea around.

00:27:27

Brooks: Abby's not fond of it, but is it

00:27:30

Brooks: financially worth it?

00:27:31

Brooks: And I think some years maybe it is and most

00:27:33

Brooks: years it isn't.

00:27:35

Abby: I just think that the cows come with a

00:27:36

Abby: little bit more stability.

00:27:38

Abby: Being our own market that will go right

00:27:42

Abby: into our feeders.

00:27:44

Abby: To me seems a little bit more stable,

00:27:46

Abby: riding the market price and going and

00:27:48

Abby: sourcing them and that seems like a lot of

00:27:51

Abby: stress.

00:27:52

Abby: And then I just feel like we've worked

00:27:53

Abby: really hard to get, we've culled a lot.

00:27:56

Abby: We've went through this whole journey with

00:27:58

Abby: these cows and maybe I'm being a little too

00:28:00

Abby: emotional, but I think I I'm not sold on

00:28:03

Abby: the idea.

00:28:04

Abby: Obviously, if the pencil makes sense and

00:28:06

Abby: the financials make sense, I'll be on board.

00:28:08

Abby: But I think the scary part is just year

00:28:10

Abby: from year it's going to be completely

00:28:11

Abby: different.

00:28:13

Brooks: I read a book one time called how to Not Go

00:28:15

Brooks: Broker Anshun, and one of the quotes in

00:28:17

Brooks: there was marry your wife, not your cows,

00:28:19

Brooks: and that stuck with me.

00:28:23

Cal: But, like Abby said, that's a tough

00:28:26

Cal: transition.

00:28:27

Cal: I've mentioned on the podcast before that

00:28:30

Cal: my dad and I have this discussion with his

00:28:32

Cal: herd, with my herd.

00:28:34

Cal: I really have a affection for the cows.

00:28:39

Cal: We've bred them for generations and they're

00:28:42

Cal: not ideal but we think they're going in the

00:28:44

Cal: right direction.

00:28:45

Cal: It's hard at times to think just getting

00:28:49

Cal: rid of that, but so much I see when you

00:28:52

Cal: start penciling it out.

00:28:54

Cal: Just doing a stocker program to finish is

00:28:58

Cal: much better if you have that in market, but,

00:29:01

Cal: man, I like my cows.

00:29:05

Cal: If you have that in market, but man, I like

00:29:06

Cal: my cows.

00:29:06

Cal: In fact I sold some cows last year that I'm

00:29:08

Cal: still complaining to my wife.

00:29:09

Cal: I sold because I just like them so much,

00:29:10

Cal: which is not a healthy attitude for a

00:29:12

Cal: business to be ran as a profit.

00:29:15

Abby: No, that's yeah, it's a it's a tough

00:29:17

Abby: balance yeah everybody loves their cows,

00:29:19

Abby: for sure I think it's like life to the life

00:29:22

Abby: balance.

00:29:22

Abby: We're at a kind of a weird spot.

00:29:24

Abby: We just opened up a retail store on farm

00:29:27

Abby: two weeks ago and so we're in the the

00:29:30

Abby: landing point of do we jump and go full

00:29:34

Abby: force and do we?

00:29:37

Abby: We get rid of the cows, we expand the

00:29:39

Abby: feeders, we just get a ton of this going

00:29:41

Abby: and we're the meat people and we're the

00:29:43

Abby: retail people, or do we hold on to the cows

00:29:47

Abby: and see how it goes and wait a little bit

00:29:49

Abby: longer?

00:29:50

Abby: That's just a lot of a lot has been brought

00:29:53

Abby: to our plate in the last two years, and so

00:29:55

Abby: we're just trying to decide what our

00:29:57

Abby: business plan is.

00:29:59

Abby: What makes sense for our family?

00:30:00

Abby: What makes sense?

00:30:00

Brooks: for our family, oh yeah it makes sense

00:30:01

Brooks: financially and yeah, yeah, I think the

00:30:05

Brooks: biggest question with, or the biggest

00:30:07

Brooks: positive if we didn't have the cows is we

00:30:09

Brooks: could have more feeder cattle and we could

00:30:12

Brooks: sell more meat.

00:30:13

Brooks: And from my, from what I look, the way I

00:30:15

Brooks: looked at it, there's more margin in the

00:30:17

Brooks: feeder cattle and selling direct market

00:30:20

Brooks: business rather than the cow calf.

00:30:21

Brooks: It it just always seems to be that way.

00:30:23

Brooks: So, yeah, some years we can raise a calf

00:30:24

Brooks: cheaper than we can buy it.

00:30:25

Brooks: Some years we can't.

00:30:26

Brooks: But the margin for a cow-calf is, I think

00:30:31

Brooks: it'll always be smaller than feeder cattle

00:30:34

Brooks: stockers and then selling direct to

00:30:35

Brooks: consumer.

00:30:37

Brooks: But that would also we would basically

00:30:40

Brooks: double our meat sale.

00:30:41

Brooks: We'd have to double our meat sales.

00:30:43

Brooks: So that's also another balance.

00:30:45

Cal: Right, and it's also with you having that

00:30:49

Cal: already, that market defined and you're

00:30:51

Cal: already able to market.

00:30:53

Cal: You could and this is me just off the cuff

00:30:56

Cal: you could grow that feeder size while

00:30:58

Cal: slowly reducing the cow size based upon

00:31:01

Cal: what your market providing you, while

00:31:02

Cal: slowly reducing the cow size based upon

00:31:03

Cal: what your market is providing you, yeah,

00:31:03

Cal: and that way gives you some of that

00:31:05

Cal: assurance and security of keeping a foot on

00:31:09

Cal: both sides of the fence.

00:31:11

Brooks: Yeah, I think in the past too.

00:31:13

Brooks: I mean, I've been pretty married to the

00:31:15

Brooks: cows.

00:31:15

Brooks: You know, we're trying to grow our cow herd

00:31:17

Brooks: trying to grow our cow herd and we were a

00:31:20

Brooks: little bit, we weren't very aggressive with

00:31:23

Brooks: them.

00:31:23

Brooks: I guess I should say we had a longer

00:31:25

Brooks: calving period.

00:31:27

Brooks: We wouldn't call a cow necessarily if she

00:31:29

Brooks: had a big problem.

00:31:30

Brooks: We would just maybe wait until she didn't

00:31:32

Brooks: breed and then we would send her.

00:31:33

Brooks: I think this year I'm just going to get

00:31:35

Brooks: really strict.

00:31:36

Brooks: I'm going to do a 45-day calving window.

00:31:40

Brooks: Anybody that has any problems is going to

00:31:42

Brooks: go.

00:31:42

Brooks: Anybody that doesn't breed back is going to

00:31:43

Brooks: go.

00:31:43

Brooks: Anybody doesn't breed back is going to go.

00:31:44

Brooks: And we're just, we're going to get more

00:31:46

Brooks: strict with our calling program.

00:31:48

Brooks: Oh yeah, and maybe we won't get rid of the

00:31:51

Brooks: cows totally, but we're going to hopefully

00:31:55

Brooks: have some really good cows rather than

00:31:56

Brooks: holding on to these.

00:31:57

Brooks: Oh yeah, these stragglers.

00:31:59

Brooks: I don't think it's doing us any good and we

00:32:02

Brooks: we have a pretty good.

00:32:03

Abby: We've went from having a lot of calving

00:32:05

Abby: issues to almost none.

00:32:08

Abby: That's already been so much better on the

00:32:10

Abby: side of pro cows.

00:32:12

Abby: We constantly have this pro and con cows

00:32:15

Abby: discussion.

00:32:17

Abby: On the pro cows, our cows are calving.

00:32:20

Abby: We're not touching them, we don't do

00:32:22

Abby: anything, they're just doing their thing.

00:32:23

Abby: Knock on wood Right as we talk in their

00:32:27

Abby: canal but and we've worked them hard, in my

00:32:30

Abby: view, because of growing up with a

00:32:31

Abby: conventional cow herd where they didn't

00:32:33

Abby: really do a lot of walk in and move in- oh

00:32:35

Abby: yeah we're.

00:32:36

Abby: We're working them really hard and they've

00:32:38

Abby: been through a lot and I feel like they're

00:32:41

Abby: the ones that are doing really well, are

00:32:42

Abby: doing really well.

00:32:43

Abby: Obviously, you're going to have the

00:32:44

Abby: stragglers that we do need to call yeah and

00:32:47

Abby: make into, which is another thing.

00:32:49

Abby: In our retail store we're trying to do some

00:32:51

Abby: brats and some processed meats and some

00:32:53

Abby: value-added products, so we're hoping that

00:32:56

Abby: those cold cows will do that for us for the

00:32:59

Abby: summer grilling season yeah, which

00:33:01

Abby: obviously doesn't make it calling a cow

00:33:03

Abby: burn so much.

00:33:04

Brooks: There's some years where you can get a good

00:33:05

Brooks: call cow market, but some years you can't.

00:33:07

Brooks: So if we're able to add some value to them,

00:33:10

Brooks: what let's call her, make some money on her

00:33:13

Brooks: oh yeah, one last question on the cows

00:33:16

Brooks: before we jump back to the pork for just a

00:33:18

Brooks: moment.

00:33:19

Cal: What breed of cattle are you all using?

00:33:21

Cal: Do you have have a preference?

00:33:23

Brooks: I'm a little partial to red Angus, but if

00:33:26

Brooks: you look at our herd, we've got brown,

00:33:28

Brooks: black, white, we've got all kinds of things,

00:33:31

Brooks: but we do have a red.

00:33:31

Brooks: Angus bull.

00:33:32

Brooks: We've had a red Angus bull for three years

00:33:34

Brooks: now, so it's definitely becoming more and

00:33:36

Brooks: more red for sure.

00:33:38

Brooks: Yes, up until the last two or three years,

00:33:40

Brooks: we really haven't had a preference.

00:33:42

Brooks: But back in 2013, we bought a group of red

00:33:46

Brooks: Angus and we still have 90% of those cows.

00:33:52

Cal: Oh nice.

00:33:52

Brooks: And they perform really well, so it just

00:33:54

Brooks: sold me on the red Angus.

00:33:56

Abby: Oh yeah, for sure, same here.

00:33:58

Abby: I don't see myself or see our production

00:34:01

Abby: going to more of the grass-fed breeds.

00:34:04

Abby: I think we definitely prefer more.

00:34:05

Cal: Well Reading on your pastured pork.

00:34:07

Cal: Are you bringing in feeders and just

00:34:10

Cal: growing them out?

00:34:12

Brooks: Yeah, we haven't got any sows yet.

00:34:14

Brooks: We're not really set up to have pigs in the

00:34:15

Brooks: winter.

00:34:16

Brooks: It's our biggest issue.

00:34:19

Brooks: We're in an area where it really hasn't

00:34:20

Brooks: been an issue finding feeder pigs and you

00:34:23

Brooks: know some years.

00:34:24

Brooks: They're fairly reasonable.

00:34:26

Abby: And also our house.

00:34:28

Abby: Another interesting nuance is our house is

00:34:31

Abby: down the road from the farm.

00:34:32

Abby: So I just feel like Sal, you know, I feel

00:34:35

Abby: like if our house was actually on the farm

00:34:38

Abby: we would be more open to getting things

00:34:39

Abby: like that.

00:34:41

Abby: Oh yeah, we're down the road, so we can't

00:34:43

Abby: really always have our eyes on them.

00:34:46

Cal: I know, just speaking of that a little bit,

00:34:48

Cal: I grew up my mom and dad's house two miles

00:34:50

Cal: away from the dairy and just that two miles

00:34:53

Cal: is not that far, but it was far enough that

00:34:57

Cal: we just didn't run down all the time.

00:34:59

Cal: We grouped those trips and if we have to

00:35:01

Cal: we'd run back and forth because it's not

00:35:03

Cal: that big a deal, but just that little bit

00:35:07

Cal: of distance makes a difference in your

00:35:09

Cal: mindset and how you're managing and doing

00:35:11

Cal: things.

00:35:11

Abby: Yes, yeah, and there's definitely pros and

00:35:13

Abby: cons, I think, to having the house a little

00:35:16

Abby: ways from the farm.

00:35:17

Abby: We get to turn it off a little bit more

00:35:19

Abby: than we would if we were, it was out our

00:35:21

Abby: side, our window.

00:35:23

Abby: And for a family small young family it's

00:35:26

Abby: nice to be able to just talk about

00:35:27

Abby: something else for a minute.

00:35:29

Abby: But definitely the cons are like when I'm

00:35:32

Abby: at home with the girls I can't just go

00:35:35

Abby: outside and we can go see the cows.

00:35:36

Abby: We have to load up into the car and head

00:35:39

Abby: down there and so that's frustrating,

00:35:41

Abby: especially and with the retail store.

00:35:42

Abby: we've had to make some pretty yes, and so

00:35:43

Abby: that's frustrating, especially with the

00:35:43

Abby: retail store.

00:35:44

Abby: We've had to make some pretty boundaries

00:35:46

Abby: with our hours so that these are our hours

00:35:48

Abby: and we're not accepting just random

00:35:51

Abby: walk-ins because we're just not sometimes

00:35:53

Abby: not there.

00:35:54

Abby: So that's one of the cons on that.

00:35:57

Cal: One thing you all had mentioned early on

00:36:00

Cal: that when those first cows Brooks, you

00:36:03

Cal: direct marketed them to the consumer yes

00:36:08

Cal: that was covid was a big mind shift for a

00:36:11

Cal: lot of people.

00:36:12

Cal: That people started looking for locally

00:36:13

Cal: sourced meats.

00:36:14

Cal: But this was prior to that.

00:36:16

Cal: How did you develop and cultivate that

00:36:19

Cal: market?

00:36:20

Brooks: I guess, to be honest with you, my

00:36:21

Brooks: grandfather owned a business and most of it,

00:36:25

Brooks: maybe half to 75%, went to his business for

00:36:29

Brooks: a benefit that the employees got.

00:36:31

Cal: Oh, very nice.

00:36:32

Brooks: But we grew on that.

00:36:34

Brooks: Obviously we got a little bit of our name

00:36:36

Brooks: out.

00:36:37

Brooks: Shop teacher bought it.

00:36:38

Brooks: It was the first steer that I sold was to

00:36:40

Brooks: him.

00:36:41

Brooks: People just started to hear about us a

00:36:43

Brooks: little bit family friends oh yeah, so we

00:36:45

Brooks: had some hitty sales there at the beginning.

00:36:47

Brooks: Yeah, oh, my first sale was definitely I'm

00:36:50

Brooks: not I'm not sure if the meat was any good,

00:36:52

Brooks: but we sold and it just yeah, it was word

00:36:55

Brooks: of mouth, for sure oh yeah there was people

00:36:58

Brooks: back then that did value where their meat

00:37:00

Brooks: came from right, yeah, but let's transition

00:37:05

Brooks: to the overgrazing section.

00:37:07

Cal: And the overgrazing section we take a

00:37:09

Cal: little bit deeper dive into something about

00:37:13

Cal: your operation, and I just had a

00:37:15

Cal: conversation the other day.

00:37:16

Cal: Maybe it should be called severe grazing.

00:37:18

Cal: We're taking a deep dive for just a little

00:37:20

Cal: while and then we're moving on from it.

00:37:24

Cal: Today we're going to talk about using

00:37:25

Cal: social media to sell beef, but let's just

00:37:28

Cal: talk about that in general.

00:37:30

Cal: You've already mentioned how you started

00:37:32

Cal: that market.

00:37:33

Cal: How did you grow that market and continue

00:37:35

Cal: to expand it?

00:37:38

Abby: I'll take the reins on this one.

00:37:40

Abby: Obviously, he's doing the production side

00:37:42

Abby: of things and obviously I'm helping as well,

00:37:45

Abby: but my thing has been social media, and it

00:37:47

Abby: started with just like cute pictures of the

00:37:49

Abby: cows and people were, oh you guys are out

00:37:52

Abby: there, huh, and doing things, and that was

00:37:54

Abby: back in 2012.

00:37:55

Abby: So we've we've been posting for 12 years or

00:37:59

Abby: so, and so it started out with just a few

00:38:03

Abby: pictures here and there of the cows, and

00:38:06

Abby: then, obviously, you know the trends of

00:38:08

Abby: social media.

00:38:09

Abby: They have definitely grown.

00:38:11

Abby: Instagram, tiktok, all those things are now

00:38:14

Abby: very, a very big deal.

00:38:16

Abby: So with starting that, I don't think we

00:38:19

Abby: really sold meat out of the from the social

00:38:22

Abby: media until probably 2019, 2018.

00:38:26

Abby: But then obviously, like you said, 2020,.

00:38:29

Abby: Everybody was just bored, and on social

00:38:32

Abby: media too.

00:38:33

Abby: So it definitely grew in that sense and

00:38:36

Abby: when we got an Instagram and really started

00:38:38

Abby: making videos and trying to get a little

00:38:40

Abby: bit more intentional with our marketing.

00:38:42

Abby: I always say to people that ask I'm always

00:38:44

Abby: getting people that are like oh, I see you

00:38:46

Abby: on social media and sometimes it feels like

00:38:48

Abby: a self-indulgent project, but in a lot of

00:38:51

Abby: ways, yeah, it's part of the business, it's

00:38:53

Abby: marketing, oh yeah.

00:38:54

Abby: And so just getting more intentional and

00:38:57

Abby: coming up with what's our mission it's

00:39:00

Abby: helped us get an avenue and then trying to

00:39:06

Abby: show people what we're doing and how our

00:39:07

Abby: practices have changed, and trying to get

00:39:08

Abby: people to buy in to the beauty of it and to

00:39:11

Abby: the romanticized version of this

00:39:14

Abby: regenerative agriculture thing and which it

00:39:16

Abby: is.

00:39:16

Abby: It's beautiful to see, so we're always

00:39:19

Abby: trying to capture that.

00:39:20

Abby: And then then, I guess, as far as today, we

00:39:22

Abby: have an Instagram and a Facebook, and those

00:39:25

Abby: two are definitely different in a lot of

00:39:27

Abby: ways.

00:39:27

Abby: Instagram is a lot of videos.

00:39:29

Abby: It's turned into a video platform.

00:39:31

Abby: I always say, though Instagram is a large

00:39:33

Abby: audience, so when you're posting videos,

00:39:36

Abby: you're getting a lot of views, but maybe

00:39:38

Abby: they're not your customers, so we don't

00:39:40

Abby: really want to be influencers or social

00:39:41

Abby: media famous or anything.

00:39:42

Abby: So we're kind of we don't really want to be

00:39:43

Abby: like influencers or social media famous or

00:39:44

Abby: anything, so we don't necessarily try that

00:39:47

Abby: hard in those things.

00:39:48

Abby: But Facebook is much more our customers and

00:39:51

Abby: our communication with our customers.

00:39:52

Abby: It's much more community-based.

00:39:54

Abby: So the things we post, we get tons of

00:39:57

Abby: comments on there from people that are

00:39:58

Abby: actually buying our meat and want to stay

00:40:01

Abby: in the loop.

00:40:02

Abby: And then we're looking into starting to

00:40:04

Abby: utilize some like individual groups on

00:40:06

Abby: Facebook for like our customers so they can

00:40:09

Abby: ask questions and communicate with us, and

00:40:12

Abby: I think that and we're starting to work

00:40:14

Abby: with Barn to Door, which they're setting up

00:40:16

Abby: our website and our online store right now

00:40:19

Abby: and then that will be a lot of streamlining

00:40:22

Abby: and much more accessible for people to

00:40:24

Abby: literally take the Instagram or the

00:40:26

Abby: Facebook post or whatever and be able to

00:40:28

Abby: click right into our online store.

00:40:30

Abby: I'm heading that project to try to make

00:40:33

Abby: things everything just a lot more

00:40:34

Abby: streamlined and have everything be a

00:40:37

Abby: consistent branding.

00:40:38

Abby: You want to have your page and your profile

00:40:41

Abby: be consistent with what you're doing and be

00:40:43

Abby: simple and make sense.

00:40:45

Abby: In our area we're the first people to

00:40:47

Abby: really do this, and so it's a whole new

00:40:50

Abby: idea.

00:40:50

Abby: The beauty of it really helps, but also

00:40:53

Abby: trying to get the actual content to them

00:40:56

Abby: and educate them a little bit on soil

00:40:58

Abby: health and why it's important and why it's

00:41:01

Abby: important for their health and our health

00:41:03

Abby: and the soil health.

00:41:04

Abby: So it's been a building project.

00:41:09

Brooks: I would say definitely, too.

00:41:10

Brooks: The most popular things seem to be when

00:41:12

Brooks: we're out there with our kids and our

00:41:15

Brooks: families, versus us just showing a picture

00:41:18

Brooks: of a cow eating some grass.

00:41:21

Brooks: People seem to really enjoy seeing our kids

00:41:23

Brooks: out there, and maybe that's what's selling

00:41:25

Brooks: too selling our story versus our practices.

00:41:28

Abby: Yeah, I think that's the main thing about

00:41:31

Abby: our social media is just trying to sell the

00:41:32

Abby: story.

00:41:33

Abby: And then there's been to get ahead of the

00:41:35

Abby: algorithm.

00:41:36

Abby: That's what Barnador promises as well.

00:41:38

Abby: Like the algorithm is going to be in favor

00:41:41

Abby: of someone that has consistent branding, is

00:41:45

Abby: posting all the time.

00:41:45

Abby: We find that.

00:41:46

Abby: I find that I have more interactions with

00:41:49

Abby: people.

00:41:49

Abby: If I post from 5 pm to 9 pm, more people

00:41:52

Abby: are seeing it If I post it from like noon

00:41:55

Abby: or so, just trying to find the.

00:41:57

Abby: It's quite an art to.

00:41:59

Abby: It's not just like here's a selfie of me

00:42:02

Abby: and like we'll post it, trying to be really

00:42:05

Abby: intentional about everything that we post

00:42:06

Abby: and have a mission to.

00:42:06

Abby: It's not just like here's a selfie of me

00:42:07

Abby: and like we'll post it, trying to be really

00:42:08

Abby: intentional about everything that we post

00:42:09

Abby: and have a mission to it.

00:42:10

Abby: Our new thing is like buy your meat from a

00:42:11

Abby: farmer.

00:42:11

Abby: It's just like simple when you go to where

00:42:13

Abby: you're not seeing the farmer, you're not

00:42:15

Abby: seeing the impact of what your dollar is

00:42:17

Abby: doing, so just doing those kinds of things.

00:42:20

Abby: And then, yeah, we see a lot of

00:42:22

Abby: interactions with our kids on there or just

00:42:25

Abby: faces in general.

00:42:27

Cal: Yeah, I think you mentioned this, but you

00:42:31

Cal: have a Facebook group.

00:42:33

Cal: I'm sorry.

00:42:33

Cal: You have a Facebook page for the farm and

00:42:36

Cal: then you've recently started a group as

00:42:38

Cal: well.

00:42:40

Abby: We haven't yet we're looking into that for

00:42:43

Abby: our specific customers With the retail

00:42:44

Abby: store.

00:42:45

Abby: A lot of people just have a lot of

00:42:47

Abby: questions and the retail store was only two

00:42:49

Abby: weeks ago.

00:42:50

Abby: We're thinking about trying that out and

00:42:52

Abby: then it'll be a spot for us to be able to

00:42:54

Abby: troubleshoot any issues with the online

00:42:56

Abby: store, Because that's coming up too.

00:42:59

Cal: So you're sharing stuff through your

00:43:00

Cal: Facebook page, you're sharing stuff through

00:43:02

Cal: Instagram.

00:43:03

Cal: Are you doing any lives or are you doing

00:43:06

Cal: all videos or photos content?

00:43:10

Abby: So no lives yet.

00:43:12

Abby: I know with my flower business I do a lot

00:43:14

Abby: of lives when I'm making bouquets.

00:43:16

Cal: Oh yeah.

00:43:17

Abby: Yeah, so I do a lot of social media for my

00:43:19

Abby: flower business as well, but I think I do a

00:43:22

Abby: lot of stories.

00:43:23

Abby: So on Instagram and the lives just haven't

00:43:24

Abby: do a lot of stories.

00:43:24

Abby: So on Instagram and the lives just haven't

00:43:26

Abby: had a lot of performance.

00:43:27

Abby: There's just not a lot of people on there.

00:43:28

Abby: I think you have to do a lot in the evening

00:43:30

Abby: and there's nothing.

00:43:31

Abby: Nobody wants to see us, like giving our

00:43:33

Abby: kids dinner Stories.

00:43:36

Abby: We do lots of stories about what we're

00:43:38

Abby: currently doing People like that and then I

00:43:40

Abby: do a lot of little questions.

00:43:49

Abby: So I'll post, ask a question or something

00:43:50

Abby: and then I'll answer those questions and

00:43:51

Abby: then on Facebook, all the stories that you

00:43:52

Abby: do on Instagram go right to Facebook, so

00:43:52

Abby: everyone can see those too, and we get a

00:43:53

Abby: lot of interactions with my stories about

00:43:55

Abby: what we are doing, live and that exact

00:43:57

Abby: moment.

00:43:58

Cal: Oh yeah, in addition to your Instagram and

00:44:02

Cal: Facebook, do you also do email marketing?

00:44:06

Abby: Yes, so that is the thing that we're now

00:44:09

Abby: moving towards.

00:44:09

Abby: So, now that I feel like we have

00:44:11

Abby: established our social media presence, I

00:44:14

Abby: obviously want to take all those things and

00:44:16

Abby: streamline them into another place so that

00:44:18

Abby: we can have one-on-one conversations with

00:44:19

Abby: these people.

00:44:20

Abby: I have tried to reach out and have people

00:44:28

Abby: put their emails in, but that is not always

00:44:30

Abby: successful.

00:44:31

Abby: Barnador, when we make a sale, will capture

00:44:33

Abby: the email for us, put it on a customer like.

00:44:36

Abby: We'll create a customer list and then we'll

00:44:38

Abby: be able to put out our email newsletters.

00:44:42

Abby: I've even said I would like to have a mail

00:44:45

Abby: newsletter because I get so many emails too.

00:44:52

Abby: There's just so much information being

00:44:53

Abby: inundated at all times on social media, on

00:44:54

Abby: your email.

00:44:54

Abby: So just now, the next challenge is trying

00:44:56

Abby: to get them to put their information in so

00:44:59

Abby: that we can have direct conversations with

00:45:01

Abby: them and give them more like customized

00:45:03

Abby: information, more in-depth information.

00:45:06

Abby: You have to have the people that care about

00:45:07

Abby: where their food comes from and care about

00:45:09

Abby: the mission which comes with caring about

00:45:12

Abby: the environment, which specific person.

00:45:15

Abby: So getting those people on a list is the

00:45:17

Abby: next thing that we're working with Barnador

00:45:19

Abby: on.

00:45:21

Cal: Oh, very good.

00:45:22

Cal: Do you see you expanding beyond Instagram

00:45:25

Cal: and Facebook, or is that where you plan to

00:45:28

Cal: maintain your social presence?

00:45:32

Abby: Yeah, we're maintaining our social presence

00:45:33

Abby: there.

00:45:33

Abby: I can't do tiktok, I'm just yeah, or it's

00:45:36

Abby: just.

00:45:36

Cal: Brooks can't dance.

00:45:38

Cal: What?

00:45:40

Brooks: no, I probably could, oh yeah.

00:45:43

Abby: I'm sorry yeah, I think obviously we went

00:45:46

Abby: down the road of thinking about tiktok, but

00:45:48

Abby: it is such a broad audience too.

00:45:51

Abby: With a retail spot that is local in a small

00:45:55

Abby: community, a large audience just really

00:45:57

Abby: isn't in our goals because just not you

00:45:59

Abby: have to think about who you're, who's

00:46:01

Abby: watching it, but then who's a customer?

00:46:03

Abby: That's our thing you have to have some

00:46:05

Abby: boundaries with social media.

00:46:06

Abby: When we first started I was like, oh yeah,

00:46:08

Abby: we're going to, we're going to do this,

00:46:14

Abby: we're going to do that.

00:46:14

Abby: We could do a YouTube video.

00:46:15

Abby: And then I was like, okay, let's focus on

00:46:16

Abby: our actual customers and just entertain

00:46:16

Abby: them and gain new customers in our area.

00:46:18

Abby: We don't need somebody from California

00:46:20

Abby: watching our TikTok.

00:46:22

Abby: If they're going to buy me, then great, but

00:46:23

Abby: they're probably not.

00:46:24

Abby: So we tried to create some boundaries with

00:46:27

Abby: social media and say these are our

00:46:28

Abby: customers, let's communicate with them and

00:46:31

Abby: try to gain more customers in our local

00:46:33

Abby: area and stick to Instagram and Facebook

00:46:36

Abby: and obviously just our.

00:46:38

Abby: I think our number one goal, like you said,

00:46:39

Abby: is just get email marketing going, and

00:46:42

Abby: we've done a little bit of text message

00:46:43

Abby: marketing as well, because I think that's

00:46:46

Abby: like a convenient way for people to get

00:46:48

Abby: information.

00:46:49

Abby: So, just yeah, sticking to those.

00:46:53

Cal: With your social media marketing as well as

00:46:57

Cal: your email?

00:46:58

Cal: Are you working with kind of a calendar and

00:47:01

Cal: planning it out a month at a time or a week,

00:47:05

Cal: or are you just trying to identify those

00:47:08

Cal: moments as you go through and say, oh, this

00:47:10

Cal: is a moment I should share?

00:47:13

Abby: Yeah, ideally I wish I could sit here and

00:47:14

Abby: say I had a schedule and everything but no

00:47:18

Abby: it's mostly an authentic posting situation.

00:47:20

Abby: We see moments, I videotape them.

00:47:23

Abby: I try not to also have my phone out

00:47:25

Abby: constantly when I'm out there.

00:47:26

Abby: Just for well-being reasons I like to keep

00:47:28

Abby: my boundaries with it and not just be

00:47:31

Abby: constantly videotaping everything, because

00:47:33

Abby: I have kids and we want to also enjoy our

00:47:35

Abby: life on the farm.

00:47:36

Abby: But obviously, like we're moving cattle,

00:47:38

Abby: we're out in nature and maybe if I see

00:47:40

Abby: something, it doesn't take much for me to

00:47:42

Abby: grab my phone and just start recording and

00:47:44

Abby: then maybe at the end of the week I'll go

00:47:46

Abby: back and look at all my recordings and then

00:47:48

Abby: I can make a quick reel.

00:47:49

Abby: End of the week I'll go back and look at

00:47:50

Abby: all my recordings and then I can make a

00:47:51

Abby: quick reel with all the videos spliced

00:47:52

Abby: together.

00:47:53

Abby: And making videos is a whole art too, just

00:47:55

Abby: having high quality video and high quality

00:47:58

Abby: sounds and music and stuff trending audios.

00:48:02

Abby: So I try to just stay up to date as much as

00:48:04

Abby: I can with all that, but also keeping

00:48:06

Abby: boundaries with social media so that I can

00:48:07

Abby: also enjoy my real life.

00:48:09

Cal: So very true, and I know from the podcast

00:48:13

Cal: and what we do on social media that takes

00:48:16

Cal: so much more time than you really think

00:48:18

Cal: it's going to.

00:48:19

Cal: You think, oh, it's just a post.

00:48:22

Cal: It won't take too much time, but it takes

00:48:23

Cal: time to get it, get the wording right, get

00:48:26

Cal: it out there and then if you're getting

00:48:28

Cal: engagement off of that, it takes time to

00:48:29

Cal: reply to those people and make sure the

00:48:32

Cal: conversation is going in a productive route.

00:48:35

Abby: For sure, and I think with having kids it's

00:48:37

Abby: a balance, because I don't want to be on my

00:48:39

Abby: phone constantly when I have the kids but

00:48:41

Abby: they go to daycare part-time a couple of

00:48:44

Abby: times a week and so then I'll maybe record

00:48:47

Abby: some things and then maybe when I have a

00:48:49

Abby: daycare day, I have an office day, I'll sit

00:48:51

Abby: down and I'll really hit it hard and just

00:48:54

Abby: trying to like schedule out that time, uh,

00:48:56

Abby: to be completely present with whatever I'm

00:48:59

Abby: doing.

00:48:59

Abby: That's been the balance.

00:49:03

Cal: Very good, wonderful conversation thus far,

00:49:06

Cal: brooks and Abby, but it's time we

00:49:08

Cal: transitioned to our famous four questions.

00:49:10

Cal: Our famous four questions, our famous four

00:49:11

Cal: questions, are sponsored by Ken Cove Farm

00:49:13

Cal: Fence Supplies.

00:49:15

Cal: Ken Cove Farm Fence is a proud supporter of

00:49:18

Cal: the Grazing Grass Podcast and grazers

00:49:20

Cal: everywhere At Ken Cove Farm Fence.

00:49:26

Cal: They believe there's true value within the

00:49:27

Cal: community of grazers and land stewards.

00:49:28

Cal: The results that follow, proper management

00:49:29

Cal: and monitoring, can change the very world

00:49:32

Cal: around us.

00:49:33

Cal: That's why Ken Cove is dedicated to

00:49:35

Cal: providing an ever-expanding line of grazing

00:49:38

Cal: products to make your chores easier and

00:49:40

Cal: your land more abundant.

00:49:41

Cal: Whether you're growing your own food on the

00:49:43

Cal: homestead or grazing on thousands of acres,

00:49:46

Cal: ken Cove has everything you need to do it

00:49:49

Cal: well, from reels to tumblewills, polytwine

00:49:53

Cal: to electric nets, water valves to water

00:49:55

Cal: troughs, you'll find what you're looking

00:49:57

Cal: for at Ken Cove.

00:49:59

Cal: They carry brands like Speedrite, o'briens,

00:50:01

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00:50:05

Cal: Ken Cove is proud to be part of your

00:50:07

Cal: regenerative journey.

00:50:08

Cal: Call them today or visit KenCovecom, and be

00:50:12

Cal: sure to follow them on social media and

00:50:14

Cal: subscribe to the Ken Cove YouTube channel

00:50:18

Cal: at Ken Cove Farm Fence for helpful how-to

00:50:21

Cal: videos and new product releases.

00:50:24

Cal: They're the same four questions we ask of

00:50:26

Cal: all of our guests.

00:50:27

Cal: Our very first question what is your

00:50:29

Cal: favorite grazing grass related book or

00:50:32

Cal: resource?

00:50:34

Brooks: So I would say my favorite resource would

00:50:36

Brooks: be Understanding Ag, their website, their

00:50:39

Brooks: newsletters You're getting one, I think

00:50:41

Brooks: it's a couple times a month, I guess I

00:50:43

Brooks: forget and then also the Grass Farmer.

00:50:46

Brooks: That's my favorite thing to get in the mail.

00:50:49

Brooks: I'm always reading it every time we get it.

00:50:51

Brooks: And as far as the book goes, jim garish's

00:50:53

Brooks: kick the hay habit was definitely a big

00:50:54

Brooks: eye-opener for me, and I recently just read

00:50:58

Brooks: the turnaround story or a rancher story by

00:51:00

Brooks: dave pratt.

00:51:02

Brooks: That was.

00:51:02

Brooks: That's probably my favorite book and that

00:51:04

Brooks: didn't have a lot to do with grazing

00:51:06

Brooks: necessarily.

00:51:07

Brooks: It was more financial, but it was a big

00:51:10

Brooks: eye-opener for me.

00:51:11

Cal: If you're not profitable, you're not going

00:51:13

Cal: to be grazing too much, so I think it

00:51:15

Cal: qualifies.

00:51:15

Brooks: Exactly.

00:51:16

Brooks: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can have the

00:51:18

Brooks: healthiest soil in the world, but if you're

00:51:19

Brooks: not making money, what good is it?

00:51:22

Cal: Right, exactly.

00:51:23

Cal: Yeah, abby, do you have some resources to

00:51:25

Cal: share?

00:51:26

Abby: Brooks mostly yeah.

00:51:28

Cal: Oh, okay, there we go.

00:51:30

Cal: That works again.

00:51:30

Cal: I have two children, so reading a book is

00:51:35

Cal: difficult yeah no problem, I just didn't

00:51:39

Cal: want to leave you out thank you, so our

00:51:41

Cal: second question what is your favorite tool

00:51:43

Cal: for the farm?

00:51:44

Brooks: utv for sure.

00:51:46

Brooks: That allows us to move the cows wherever we

00:51:48

Brooks: want, put up fence, the kids can go in it,

00:51:50

Brooks: the whole family can go in it.

00:51:52

Brooks: That we bought that in 2020 and before that

00:51:55

Brooks: we're using my old colorado and it was a

00:51:57

Brooks: pain in the butt to try to move cows and

00:52:00

Brooks: put up fence.

00:52:00

Brooks: And oh yeah, so definitely the utv that's

00:52:03

Brooks: been.

00:52:03

Brooks: Yeah, that's our.

00:52:05

Brooks: As my father-in-law says, it's his right

00:52:06

Brooks: hand man, oh yeah and he he added a little

00:52:10

Brooks: attachment to it.

00:52:11

Abby: What was it last week where we can drive

00:52:13

Abby: right over the fence and oh yes underneath

00:52:16

Abby: the yeah, that's been life changing.

00:52:18

Brooks: I don't know why it took me so long to do

00:52:19

Brooks: that, but I've often thought we have a utv

00:52:23

Brooks: here.

00:52:23

Cal: My parents do.

00:52:24

Cal: I don't use it very much, but I've looked

00:52:26

Cal: into buying a UTV or ATV.

00:52:28

Cal: Sticker price scare but I thought I get one.

00:52:32

Cal: I've got to fix it so I can drive over it.

00:52:34

Cal: It's just a hassle, as I'm out there in the

00:52:36

Cal: pickup, yeah.

00:52:37

Brooks: Yeah, for sure.

00:52:39

Cal: Our third question what would you tell

00:52:41

Cal: someone just getting started?

00:52:43

Brooks: Get in contact with somebody that's already

00:52:45

Brooks: doing it.

00:52:46

Brooks: I, for the first couple years I was on

00:52:48

Brooks: YouTube a lot.

00:52:50

Brooks: I didn't have contact with a lot of people.

00:52:52

Brooks: Since we got in contact with Gabe, we

00:52:53

Brooks: attempted some grazing conferences.

00:52:55

Brooks: We've gotten contact with other people that

00:52:57

Brooks: are doing it and it's put us light years

00:52:58

Brooks: ahead just knowing different people that

00:53:00

Brooks: are doing it.

00:53:01

Brooks: Go to a grazing conference, just whatever

00:53:04

Brooks: you can do.

00:53:05

Brooks: Surround yourself with people that are

00:53:06

Brooks: already doing it, that are like-minded.

00:53:09

Abby: And if you have a wife, keep an open form

00:53:11

Abby: of communication with her and try to work

00:53:14

Abby: together as much as possible.

00:53:17

Abby: And yeah, like you said, just getting in

00:53:19

Abby: communication with other people has really

00:53:21

Abby: helped us for sure.

00:53:22

Brooks: And attend a soil health academy.

00:53:24

Brooks: If you're just familiar with soil health,

00:53:26

Brooks: attend it.

00:53:27

Brooks: It'll change your mindset instantly.

00:53:28

Abby: Not sponsored or anything.

00:53:36

Cal: Excellent advice there.

00:53:43

Brooks: And our last question where can others find

00:53:45

Brooks: out more about you?

00:53:46

Brooks: Instagram and Facebook, and we do have a

00:53:47

Brooks: website too, and I'm always open to people

00:53:50

Brooks: emailing me and calling me.

00:53:50

Brooks: I don't know everything, but I definitely

00:53:51

Brooks: love to chat about soil health and adaptive

00:53:53

Brooks: grazing.

00:53:55

Cal: Wonderful Brooks and Abby, we really

00:53:56

Cal: appreciate you coming on today and sharing.

00:53:59

Brooks: Thank you this has been awesome.

00:54:01

Abby: Yeah, thanks for having us, it was really

00:54:03

Abby: fun.

00:54:04

Cal: I really hope you enjoyed today's

00:54:05

Cal: conversation.

00:54:07

Cal: I know I did.

00:54:08

Cal: Thank you for listening and if you found

00:54:11

Cal: something useful, please share it.

00:54:14

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00:54:16

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00:54:19

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00:54:21

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00:54:24

Cal: you'd like to share about your journey, go

00:54:26

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00:54:31

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00:54:32

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00:54:36

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00:54:39

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00:54:42

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00:54:44

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00:54:45

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00:54:48

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00:54:50

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00:54:53

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00:54:56

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00:54:59

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00:55:02

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00:55:05

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00:55:07

Cal: Also, if you haven't left us a review,

00:55:09

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00:55:10

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00:55:12

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00:55:15

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00:55:17

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00:55:19

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00:55:21

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00:55:23

Cal: Until next time, keep on grazing grass.

Brooks and Abby Bowser

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