e81. Ranching in Long Island with Stephen Skrenta

00:00 - Cal Hardage (Host) Welcome to the Grazing Grass Podcast, episode 81. You're listening to the Grazing Grass Podcast, helping grass farmers learn from grass farmers, and every episode features a grass farmer and their operation. I'm your host, cal Hardidge. When I think about Long Island, new York, I don't think about grazing, I don't think about farms. But today we have a guest from Long Island, new York. Stephen Scorinta does grass-fed beef and lamb as well as some other things that he's got going on. He's in a challenging environment of Long Island. You know the land's not cheap there, plus how he started with 20 acres and what he's doing now. I think it's a great episode and it will surprise you a little bit At least it did me because when I think about Long Island, like I said, I don't think about grazing. It's a great episode. I think you'll enjoy it. 01:26 Before we talk to Stephen, 10 seconds about my farm. So a few episodes ago, quite a few episodes ago, I talked about my plan for my cows that I put the bulls out there and I was not pulling them early, because in my opinion, a bred cow is worth more than an open cow. It really depends on your market and what you're doing there. When I thought or plan. I was not going to preg check my cows. In the past we always do the bioprine and blood pregnancy test. Super easy to pull the blood and then send it off to get tested. The biggest drawback is you've got a week or two weeks to wait to find the results, but you can test much earlier than if you're palpating. So 28 days post-breeding you can find out if they're pregnant. 02:19 As it started cooling down and I started counting hay bales to see how much I had looking at my pastures, how much grazing I have to make it through winter, how things are going, I thought it was a wise idea to go ahead and preg check my cows and that will let me make some decisions on do I keep them through winter? Do I'm not? Obviously, if they're bred calf on the ground, they're sticking around. Well, I say that I also weighed calves and estimated weaning weights and I've got some couple cows that just are not producing much compared to their body weight A cow efficiency, if you will. I like looking at the weight of their calf compared to the cow's mature size. So I'm looking forward to getting that back. I should have it back before next week's episode. I'll give you an update and let you know if I'm happy or sad. Sure, it'll be good. Let's talk to Steven. Steven, we want to welcome you to the Grazing Grass podcast. We're excited you're here today. Thank you, cal, it's a pleasure to be here. 03:31 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) I appreciate the invitation. 03:33 - Cal Hardage (Host) Steven, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your operation? 03:37 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) We started our farm in 2015. We're based on Eastern Long Island, new York, which is not necessarily known as an agricultural sector of New York, although in the history of Long Island it absolutely includes a fair amount of agriculture, in particular, potato farms. Today we have a lot of the vineyards Eastern Long Island, as well as sod farms and a small but growing number of livestock producers. Just like Echo Bonnet, we raise grass fed we can say grass fed in face beef, pasture, lamb, pork and chicken on the farm and we sell all those products direct to the consumer over our website. And then we also have a wholesale business that we run to supply restaurants and butcher stores and such. 04:39 - Cal Hardage (Host) All right, very good, you have a lot of things going on there. The first thing that jumps out at me is the Long Island. I don't think Long Island and think a grass-fed beef lamb or anything. 04:53 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) Well, yeah, you're right, and pretty much nobody else does as well, maybe with the exception of me. But also, perhaps you know, maybe that is the opportunity. You know, if you think about it, we're. You know our most western farm is about 50 miles outside of New York City and a lot of the search. And you know some of the big food areas in Brooklyn and Queens, very close to the Westchester of course. Or you know NASCAR is NASA's of the counties in the Long Island. You know quite a few consumers and many of them are looking for. You know local, locally raised vegetables. 05:36 - Cal Hardage (Host) Now, how big is Long Island? 05:38 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) So if you were to draw so it's very difficult to say right, because the traffic in and around your city really can distort things. But let's say it's, let's say there's no traffic. If you drive from New York City to the end of Long Island in about two hours you know we're towards the end of Long Island, heading east. Long Island is bordered by Long Island Sound and the other side can be connected and many the Atlantic Ocean. 06:07 - Cal Hardage (Host) Oh, very good. So that results in pretty mild weather, I would assume, for the most part. 06:13 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) Yeah, it's a great place to have temperatures, despite New Yorkers complaining constantly about the weather. You know we do. We do get a fair amount of humidity in the summer and we tend to have some days under well to the 90s, but for the most part it's fairly temperate. The winter is very reasonable. We do get snow, of course, but the amount of thing that they have to, so it's really very reasonable. But the downside to it is that we're on same soils and that makes it a challenge. In fact that's been a challenge for the business, for the, you know, since we've started, and this past week we make the investment and started hearing our largest, on which was a big undertaking. 06:58 - Cal Hardage (Host) Very good, Very good. Now you started. I think you said in 2015,. Did you grow up in agriculture? What brought you to agriculture? No, not at all. 07:09 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) You know my background is in agriculture and finance. That's where the first part of my professional career was in New York City and at the time in New York City I was in the middle of the years of London and when my wife decided it was time to come back from Europe, we moved to our home on the east of Rhode Island and distributing into New York City wasn't a big choice anymore for me and I realized that then I needed something to do and wanted to challenge, but I also wanted something that I didn't you know. That would be a learning experience and ultimately good for the environment, and that's when I started developing the business and the farm farms. 07:53 - Cal Hardage (Host) When did you decide oh, we're doing agriculture. And when you decided to get CAD? Well, actually, I don't want to assume that. What did you get first? 08:04 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) So first and up until you know, really a year or two ago, it was only grass and be, and so that's where you know it was, for whatever reason, it's not necessarily the most profitable product, you know, compared to the other proteins, it was the one that I was, for whatever reason, was interested in. Oh yeah, and so, yeah, we started with grass and be from day one and it's, you know, it's, our biggest product. We introduced past the work and chicken, we sort of piloted the three teams over the last year or two and then we went into full scale, I would say, production on those three the chicken, the season. 08:54 - Cal Hardage (Host) So when you got your cattle, did you? What did you have in way of land to run cattle? 09:02 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) The land on Eastern Ireland. Even I, you folks, were. Land is very, very expensive. It's very, very expensive and we wouldn't be able to make it a positive return on a farming operation if you were to go and purchase the land. And so we started, and still do these, all of the farms that we and grades and we started which wasn't easy, by the way, because of course, landowners all of which are or are or, farmers, clearly, I didn't have any experience in this, so that was a big challenge for me really to do some convincing in order to get far, to lease us there the land. 09:47 Now, we don't have a problem with that at all. In fact, we get a lot of calls out season to take over larger properties, in particular those that don't want to put their properties into solid production. Typically, you know, we'll get the call. We started with 20 acres and then started leasing. You know, now we have 300 or so acres that we're grazing, not all a pasture, some of that acres in woods. But we, you know we sell a pasture that cattle and in particular the pasture pigs and most of their time, and so pasture. 10:24 - Cal Hardage (Host) And is all your acres there on Long Island? Yeah? 10:28 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) they're all long. That's the good news. The bad news is that they're not. They're not adjacent to each other necessarily. And so logistics, yeah, so logistics, and moving ourselves and our equipment, as well as the animals, around through rotation, not only, you know, on the farm, but throughout the farms for us. So that's, you know, that's part of what we had to develop. That may have been a bit unique to our operation and that's what we're doing as well, I'm sure. But when you're so close to New York City, you can't get, you know, 500 continue of sacred. It just doesn't, it really doesn't exist, oh yeah. 11:10 - Cal Hardage (Host) Yeah, you got that 20 acres. You went and bought some cows, some stockers. What was your process there? You know we spent. 11:20 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) You know, we spent one of the things that we had to do because the labor rates are very expensive on this probably can imagine. Also, there's not, there's no expertise in terms of life some these months, so it wasn't like I could go to a neighbor and ask you know how do I put together a high tips on offense, or what do I use for stock water, or you know what I see my fields, my astro to it. So so you know, early on there was a lot of learning and that, thankfully, I was able to do with a few really amazing people that didn't necessarily let me abide, the horde, very generous with their timing and knowledge. And then we had to start doing everything by ourselves. We couldn't afford. We couldn't afford, we couldn't make a return on the investment. We were going to bring in people to build our fences or to develop our stock order, even drill a well, the margins are. 12:29 So we had to do it all ourselves, which we did, and it also was part of the excitement. It was getting all together, you know, off ourselves and we made a lot of mistakes, obviously, but we got fences together, we got stock order together. We leaned heavily on, you know, a few, as I said, mentors guide us, you know. And then, right when we, when we hit the first, it's a little bit different when town will get out. Well, thankfully this hasn't happened, but it would be a little bit different if town will get out on one island more versus in, say, a more rural area, upstate, or something like that. 13:11 So, you know the community, our neighbors, you know I would imagine they would know what to do. They would be extraordinary if that were to happen. So you know, we do have to be very, very careful. 13:28 - Cal Hardage (Host) You know, one thing that's brought up quite often with animals is to have animals that are locally adapted. But it sounds like you probably weren't able to get very many animals from Long Island. You had to go off the island to get cattle. 13:43 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) Yeah, we source none of the you know, the beers that we buy from Long Island. 13:50 We start, you know, we sort of when the business grows right. 13:56 Your sort of approach to things change drastically In the early days, you know, if we were going and driving for a few hours, let's say, to upstate New York and buying five steers or half-earners right, because they were, we thought that they were the perfect genetics and the perfect phenotypes and stuff, that was sort of like a big deal. But we just, you know, now we can't do that right, we just don't have enough time. So now you know, we have to move into some bigger markets where we can find the right genetics that were not only, you know, used to our weather conditions on Long Island, which is not a partner actually, but also the, you know, the forage depots is in use, because where, you know, we're primarily in the finishing stage, when we're talking about cattle, we're in the finishing stage of the animals life, and so you know the levels of energy that the animal is coming off of versus coming on up to when they get to our farms. You need to be fairly consistent because we don't want to, you know, purge where they're not being weighed. 15:10 - Cal Hardage (Host) So it sounds like sourcing animals was somewhat of a challenge. Has it gotten? You mentioned there about numbers but overall has it gotten easier by building contacts, or do you still have a lot of issues with sourcing animals? 15:27 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) I would say that, second to labor, it's the most, it was the most challenging and it continues to be the most challenging and I think I think people, people that come and see the operation, underestimate how much time I pay particular needs and on the road meeting with other livestock producers, not necessarily because we can't find them the right genetics, but I'm speaking openly it's quite difficult to find people that are trustworthy and that's an unfortunate. That's an unfortunate aspect in the business that I wasn't aware of and made some costly mistakes right. 16:03 Not everybody has sense. This is giving me a new, specific hope. 16:07 - Cal Hardage (Host) Right. It'd make it a lot easier if you could take everyone's word at face value. 16:13 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) Yeah, and I think it works for weeks too, because there's a little bit of concern, obviously, about my performance. It's not, you know, it's not like I have a history in the business and I probably still don't, but you know, really you don't come across as I mean wasn't coming across as particularly knowledge. I was able to repeat what people were telling me and you know what I thought I knew and sometimes I got lucky. Sometimes I did it in terms of actually selecting the animals that would work for the operation and you know and what we're doing. But I'm thinking of a little bit right now, when it's something that something that I spend a lot of time working on, there are some deeper markets in the south, right south of us. 16:53 So, as you move into, yeah so, as you, certainly, as you move into Pennsylvania and then you move into West Virginia, then you start to you're able to start applying her to be a big enough to fill up those with correction, which which is what we're, you know, looking for. 17:15 - Cal Hardage (Host) Very good, and I hate to show my ignorance here, but I am. How far is it from you to Pennsylvania? 17:22 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) Yeah, so you know again, without traffic you could be in Pennsylvania within two hours. You know, right, right, right, right, you know, through Jersey, new Jersey, and then into Pennsylvania. I was thinking about two hours. The issue is that you have to take candle over and maybe it's interesting or not to show us no viewers, but you guys, you guys take down over the George Washington Ridge and the Grosnick Ridge and you got to take them across the, you know, across, you know, bronx Expressway, right. So you have to think about the time that you're, that you're moving down, you have to think about the weather, you have to think about road. There are things that maybe you just don't need to think about in getting animals, even truck drivers that your own contractor bring animals in. 18:19 - Cal Hardage (Host) Those are things that I wouldn't even think about. You know, of course, I live in Oklahoma. Traffic is bad enough in Tulsa. I just skirt around Tulsa, I don't worry about it, you know. So, yeah, that's some aspects that I wouldn't have thought about or considered that other people are faced with. 18:37 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) This is where we got to see a very early on with people that you know make your meetings. They are all basic concepts, right? And then those basic concepts definitely need to be adapted to where you're You're raising the animal and that's later and that's you know we're gonna get the animals how you know, how is the community react to having Tower lives or next to them? And it is a little bit different and it required us to Make some changes and when you got your, your first cattle there, you you lease 20 acres. 19:14 - Cal Hardage (Host) Did you have to go in and do any infrastructure to get started, or or was it pretty well fence? How was that process? 19:24 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) No, we had to do everything so we had to put, we had to put the things up, we had to construct you stop water lines that we use we're not farmers, you know so something like plowing and disney and seeding, it's this. That wasn't part of that, that wasn't part of the plan, right? So we're gonna do all that and learn how to do that. Actually, we have to do it. But you know, the first time you get to the property because I don't think any of my team lets the farm very much, very hard, comparing to at least what we believe you know, raising livestock involved maybe, maybe fires. We would think livestock are difficult, but we don't necessarily. But we had to do it all and and we did, and we started getting started as well. You know we did it. You know we just we wanted to. We want to make sure that we were Progressing in the right direction every year. 20:19 - Cal Hardage (Host) Oh yeah, and when you you mentioned water. For instance, Are you putting any pipes in so you have water everywhere? You're using natural water. 20:28 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) Yes, so that. So the farm, but you know, as I said before, means all the properties. Now they're long-term nieces, but what we needed to do is needed to think about constructing the infrastructure. So there was almost entirely poor taking down a house inside a fence or or take it off, you know, south border lines or whatever, and so everything that we did was designed to be Searchable, or maybe that would be different if we started buying our own properties. But again, so maybe a, for instance, maybe what's a little bit different on our farm is that we go Try Jenny pipes. We use a Material I just do Paul with that that lays on top of the surface, and so if we needed to come off a property, we could roll it up very quickly. We wouldn't have to do anything about, and that's what we use and it works for me high-tent style fence and identity polyethylene on. 21:29 - Cal Hardage (Host) Your high density polyethylene pipe? Are you able to use that Year round? Or what Challenges do this winter provide for you? 21:39 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) It's the first week there first, maybe two winters. We all were with the deferred at a part of our mistake, just because I didn't know what's involved in Terry and cowl in winter. No, it's also very expensive to land. Hey, we all cut our own. Hey, we import it, right so, but it's expensive to learn. Hey, there's no, nobody growing. Hey, so agree with the. What state? I'll see you and, and one of the things that you know, I, you know it was important to me in order to keep my labor to be around anyone, season labor, because it's it's not the contract I wanted to make with, with the goddess, and so we need something to do in the weekend, we can keep busy, and so it didn't make sense to only to animals and other farms and we had labor and and so you know it's funny because I'm looking at I look at it once every day which is a geopharm of water that that we, you know, braiding, I think it was a few thousand dollars. 22:40 It's big, big investment for us at the time. By the way, it works for a works real on the work street in like North Dakota, and the thing is fantastic. But then this I don't know is they think I saw an email or my phone somewhere. They think so little Novels that just went at the end of your stock water lines. Now when it freezes it just creates a little grip of water. I think they cost $19 and I was all of a sudden our entire, our entire farm, for like a hundred dollars, could we would have running water anywhere on the floor all winter and which allowed us yet which is fantastic because it allowed the lot of some bail feed in rotation around the, around the farms to put water right next to you know, the animals and that's fantastic. So I wish I would have known that earlier on. We use them, we use them for the weekend. 23:38 - Cal Hardage (Host) Yeah, very good, and and that's glad to know that it works that well. I've seen the ads, so of course the ads tell me it works well. 23:46 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) but yeah, for us first because High density polyester. We can freeze and fall without cracking, and so if you just have to keep the water moving just a little bit, it works. 23:58 - Cal Hardage (Host) Oh, very good, I've had wondered about that. I know, like Plex, that they are pecs, that they put in houses and stuff will, for can freeze and fall, and I thought that Hdpe would do that, but I wasn't sure. 24:12 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) Yeah, that was great, you can run over it. Just not with a, not with a plower. This we just put it over with vehicles and stuff. It's really fine. 24:23 - Cal Hardage (Host) What diameter pipe are you using? 24:26 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) We use that in a kitchen half inch and some of the smaller farms by each and a half and some of the big ones. 24:32 - Cal Hardage (Host) So you mentioned earlier everything on your lease farms portable. So Well, because it's a lease land and you have multiple farms, are you moving that pipe each time you move cattle, or do you have enough on the the property? It just stays there while you have a lease there. 24:50 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) The property runs right underneath the local grace, which are semi-permigian internal fencing. Now, before we started running in the sea, we had just one line, one single straight line going down the middle of all. The layouts were exactly the same. I mean, the logic was exactly the same, so we didn't have to relearn. You know anything, spares that we needed for the stop water or the fencing, you know they work across any of the properties. Then we even, you know, and we use these, I think the business that you're called pasture pro. 25:26 You know pens, oh yeah, and so we, you know this, this really is a hundred percent goes to A fellow by the name of Jim and Garrosh. But Jim, you know Jim had helped us Think through the setup of the Out of the farm. So you know laying the stock water, spacing of the pasture pros to. You know map out the. You know spacing was with me. Yeah, you know I'm a keyfaring Of of laying between each of the pasture pros so we don't need to stand outside doing man. 26:00 We could put animals anywhere on property and within today it's within 300 feet. They have fresh, rising water moving. You know the portable trots Ticks just a few short minutes of cheerleading. It's. It's very, very slippery to us all. The you know the proper things, and so it was that it was an initial sort of work to to really think through, with someone who had done this hundreds of times, laid out you know what the infrastructure should look like, what, what materials to use In in fairly. You know, now to do it, now to do yourselves, right now, we'll come up with the property, you know we. 26:40 - Cal Hardage (Host) But the initial, the initial thought was was done with Jim one thing really interesting that you said through there you have your pasture pro post set so that it's an acre whenever you divide your pasture. 26:54 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) Yeah, which allows us, you know, because every, every morning, when we do grazing, we observe the grace from yesterday. Calculate mean we know the demand. If you will, we calculate the implied supply, then we've placed on the graze residual, and, and in order to do all, and you need to know exactly, you know the, the acreage that the animals were on. It's not if we're measuring that every day, we're just observing between. You know post at one point when we suddenly not work properly measured. 27:28 - Cal Hardage (Host) As you're going through that and you get your system or infrastructure set up and watering. How was finishing cattle on grass? Did you work with Jim on that, or, and how challenging was that? 27:43 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) The answer is Right, you know, I, I, I spent time at the noble institute. Yeah, it was. It was very learning, learning a lot about the business. But the concept of just finishing animals because we're an out-town family, we would never be able to. 28:00 We would never be able to make money just that close, like you will never be able to survive if you tell you, because of all the factors that some of which have discussed, that that was, you know, that was a discussion that you do and that I probably he tried to count down right now, that's, that's it. So very, very good, then you, they became what they will. What kind of forage do you need in order to finish? And so that's presumably that's gonna be different than you know. Then building bone and muscle, relay and fat, you know, has energy domains that are beyond, you know, building bone, muscle and so well, how, you know, how did we see our Pastors relative to someone who was tough? So those, those, those would be making, you know, major differences that that, if I wasn't working with someone else, your analogy, well, there, I would have missed. I mean, hopefully I wouldn't got me at this point. 28:57 - Cal Hardage (Host) It does take time. Some of us learn slower than others. I have say I'm guilty of that. So you're working, you're getting these cows, you're, you're working to our skabs and finishing them on grass. Did you have a processor close by? Did you have any trouble finding a processor? 29:16 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) No, we didn't have. We don't have a processor nearby. When we do have to travel, troubling, traveling the spine right, we can do that. It's. It's finding the capacity. That's one and it's in its water. But my dog but perhaps not something to be realistic I always anticipated slaughter would be a big hurdle for us. We were able to find a slaughter. It was a struggle to find the capacity. Over the years, as we grow, the bigger bottle there a bigger bottle like this, the coconut side of the business. 29:50 You know the to be able to know, to sell, to be able to have. You know the, the car, this butcher, and then If you know it's made up in a very, very high quality way, and then package, new girl, they're how quality way. If someone, you know someone's gonna pay the pre and then we, though we ask them to pay the products that come on forms, it's gonna be perfect. You know the concept to be perfect. The packaging is to be perfect. You know there's it's not survive, a new solution either. The freezer, it's not survive. You get shipping, and sometimes across the US, and so that hope I take a capacity. I think it's a bigger hurdle, at least you know, for us. 30:30 - Cal Hardage (Host) Then this, then the slaughter and when you got those first animals Process ready to sell, how did you go about marketing them and and where? 30:41 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) well, we decided that business was entirely different. Business which is marketing the beef it's almost got nothing to do with the farm. I'm still set. That's about the, the investment that's involved. You know that's the labor, the needed team that you need to have in order to keep everything working properly and then optimize. We initially, we Before, before the, we started building the front end, the reeks outside the business, which is all well, a lot of day one, so we were just something great to sell the product Online which you received. You know the first. He was two or five purposes back. You know. You know budget the beat, they taste. We have great customers and then so they sort of the one on that journey. 31:33 - Cal Hardage (Host) It's us surprisingly. 31:35 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) Thank you, lee, I'm a pretty good. We're getting there right in terms of the way I want you know the way I wanted to eat, but you know the online part works. It's just the beat that they saw on this way. 31:49 - Cal Hardage (Host) How do you Ensure that your beef has a consistent flavor? To me is, this is everything about the operation right, so it's. If you're good, if you're gonna be a hundred percent grass and it can't just snap your fingers now. 32:06 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) Great tasting beef right now. You started from a stable. You know something like we were right. You, over the year Is hopefully you're doing right thing. You're building soil right and then you're building up your forage. 32:20 No, ultimately, and as you work on sourcing, better genetics and get the horse who sits down, you know you can lay your fat. You know walking system right, you think those weight gains will be higher and then more consistent, which which is Absolutely required, but it's not again, maybe it's different with brain, I don't know, but it's. But you chew the grass, it's gonna. There's a curve that you know there's a. There's a learning program, right, there's a. There's a development curve. And if you're coming on to, as we are, conventional farm soils, matt, you know that takes time and and and in time, takes money. You need to prepare for that. And so what people say? You know regenerative farming or something. This is years and years long, jerk, and we're learning. That needs it doesn't you know quickly, but you know not, not a matter of Europe's right at that state time and yet, to be consistent in the way that you manage. So the, the operation, open leagues that promote soil health First and foremost, even at the expense of, of waking and and the product one. 33:31 The last thing I'd say, and this was you know we didn't want to do it, but I felt like, in order to produce a high-quality, grass-fed product more consistently, because you could spend a lot of money to basically acquire a new customer, but if they're not, you know, buying your beef Three, four, five times, you're not making money on that customer, just cost too much money to get them, and so that the evil experience, the flavor and then the, the temperness needs to be consistently there over those purchases and what what we want to vote did which, which is a vested duration, and you know it's Transforms. 34:13 You know the operation, I mean it's, it's really been fantastic in terms of, you know, our games and also the stress load that we were carrying around, whether or not you know we were gonna hit our slaughter slump, which you know we need to book, you know, up to a year in advance, whether the animals ready or not, and so, and so you know, you're, you're, you're stressing because you know the animal, let's say, is D1.7 pounds a day and needs to gain 2.1 pounds in order to get to the slaughter slot, and it's very stressful where, now that we can, you know, not wake up, you know, fencing in the stock order that will be able to Now operations all set up now with the irrigation it's. It's allowed us to. It's allowed us to be much more Consistent in terms of the animals that were bringing to processing moving on from beef cattle, just a little bit. 35:06 - Cal Hardage (Host) You all added Pork, lamb and chicken. What prompted the decision to expand into those species? 35:15 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) I think it. So it varied. We I've always wanted to have lamb and we don't. You know, we don't use any system for realizers. We don't use any herbicide defense to such one as we, not in zero. We get talk. We do have a complex operation on the point, but that's it. And then, and then you know, our manager and the animals. So we have weeds and a stick to some of the. Some of those weeds I'm not for being you know, I'm not so pretty a lot of pressure on the other. You know they won't consume them. So so so we were doing is you're saying, well, you know, we want, you know, we want to put more pressure on the animals to raise more uniformly. And then you know, and then ours daily gains on the technical sucker. 35:59 And so what we did was what the re in the second class of general, it's an allowance to do a better job at some of the some of the year species. I was, I was watching a group of she go out, yeah, but we just call mobile work. It's a horrible thing and and they seem to love it. So that we very, yeah, that maybe it means to be happy or tell us see them. So that was the. That was a land chickens we don't, we don't have Like and we just we just raised me to that that really was because of the seasonality in the deep business. So what we found was you know, if you know if your labor is there or year-round Right and in your you know your fixed cost share or the year year round, you know if you're not a member of two season, then you know it's a little thing in terms of revenue and so that we want to smooth out some of that seasonality with Chicken and pork, so that and then there's obviously there's benefit. 36:58 We started doing Was running the chickens, so that was internal fences that we use for rotational grazing. That requires a fair amount of later. You know you got to maintain that fence line if you want to be hot, and We've, we've developed System where the basic of the chickens are grazing under no Heights himself and say of the internal fencing it's taken later on. You know the the place of this. So what we're trying, you know that I've also found. The last thing I'd say about that is when someone comes to the website by the bead right, that that's great, it's fantastic. But they then go in this, the supermarket, by the pork leg and the chicken, and I thought that may just thought Be at this at the supermarket to like this, if maybe they get the water in. We were out of stock and so now we're coming to the website able to buy, you know, those four, the four of these pro-seasons, and do it more consistently Right, encouraging that consumer to spend more at your stop rather than going elsewhere to get the rest of their shopping list. 38:15 You know, I think for us while you're at it, while you're at it or when, so you know you're going to, because it's expensive too. I mean, that's just the truth To be a little bit relative cost and what families you afford, and you know there needs to be healthy dose of chicken in there. 38:30 - Cal Hardage (Host) Yeah, yeah. Now, when you talked about your sheep all ago, do you run your sheep with your cattle? 38:38 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) Yeah, what we try to do is we try to. You know, it's not like this is the top five on our list of things that we want from our cow producers, but they would be great if they also had meal landmines on their farms, and they, you know, now that's pretty much just not the case. And so what we do is we socialize, you know, way more, confirming that everybody respects the hotlines in the Farama. We socialize and land with the big things and what we found is right. If we're selecting cattle, then number one, we're on the island in America where our neighbors are off a full throw away. So we're selecting for temperament, right, yes, small, free. You know grass for genetics, or you know what is temperament. And so if we tell that, right, yeah, usually not at all. So, whatever, it's a day or two before you know they stop chasing each other, and then it's a week or two before they bond it, and once they bond, they want to be together, right. 39:46 - Cal Hardage (Host) And then, in our experience, Now one thing on that bonding of your calves and your lambs are you bringing in newly weaned lambs and you're putting them with yearling stairs or heifers and you're finding it takes a couple weeks and they bond pretty good. 40:04 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) You're goofing around together chasing each other and stuff. But within a week or two we found that the four inch are really um. So if the sheep can't squirt through the internal vents to, you know, to the other pasture, then they find a way to get along. 40:19 - Cal Hardage (Host) Yeah, but I know I've read about bonding lambs with cattle, and especially if you're using weaned lambs or newly weaned lambs and you're bonding them to cattle less than 18 months old, they bond fairly quick and it's a fairly strong bond. However, I have not tried it yet, so one day I may give it a try and see how it works. 40:43 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) You know what we live is just really. You get distance from the vents and you know, you know your cattle are made by the end, so you know you've got a little noniness running through them, or if they're generally relaxed and if they are, at least in our experience, which is limited like but it's been, it's been, it's been, it's been. 41:03 - Cal Hardage (Host) Yeah, very good, as Steven. Before we wrap this up and move on to the famous four questions, is there anything else that we didn't cover that you think our listeners would benefit from? 41:15 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) I think for a lot of maybe, maybe disemphasize on where it is that those that you're building those relationships from the none of those suppliers or business which I think is important, everything from you know us boxes to you know the consultants or mentors to, in particular, the small facility owners and the co-pacers. I think it was, I think it was, for now I'm not sure one of the one of the universities really emphasized how important it is and you figure out ways to allow both of your businesses to succeed right there, things that we can do, simply click sheets and they are builds on time. Never if we commit to slots, we deal with them. Those help your partners business, and so we do our best to do it. So I think it goes both ways. Maybe that's something to do. 42:07 - Cal Hardage (Host) Yeah, and that's excellent advice there. Those relationships and being a good customer client to them as well, yeah, very good. Well, steven, it is time for our famous four questions. Same four questions we ask of all of our guests. Our very first question what is your favorite grazing grass related book or resource? 42:30 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) So there are two. I think you mentioned Jenny Gavrish. A little secret is that and I think it's still you can do it, but you certainly were able to do it years ago. You can go to his website and you can download. You know, there's dozens of PowerPoint slides that he's put together where he now writes, so, like building the fence, the sock water, thoughts around genetics, every kind of new topic that he brings to name. You could pretty much just write it while you're reading a computer. It's fantastic, of course. And then you know, walt Davis, how not to go broke-ranging, and that's the big one. And I do read once a year and I buy for everybody on my team. 43:17 - Cal Hardage (Host) Yeah, excellent selection there, and Jim Garrish is always a great resource. I enjoy reading that how to not go broke-ranging and, as you speak of it, I probably should go read it again. 43:31 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) I had an opportunity to study under Walt at the Nobles at two local events before I passed in, and it was fantastic. It was just really great. 43:41 - Cal Hardage (Host) Oh, I imagine. So yes. Our second question what is your favorite tool for the farm? 43:47 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) We have a morian routine, because if you're not, you know you don't do things in routine, you forget to do them and then you get in trouble. So you know we also have to carry around a little. I think it's made by SafeX a little handheld fence voltage, greener in terms of the tool. 44:04 - Cal Hardage (Host) The other one is a little it's a little flip box cutter but you don't know what's in your pocket you can clip it on. 44:12 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) It's always there, it's always sharp, it doesn't get in the way. It's exactly what, at least you know, so most. I won't start the day without those two. 44:22 - Cal Hardage (Host) Oh yes, very good selections, yes. Thirdly, what would you tell someone just getting started Consent the class? 44:30 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) of life that you start with. You know you want to do the cycle of life. The shorter it is, you know, the more immediate the zone, better right in terms of cash flow. That's one you know beef, beef, I think is a tough one to start with. 44:46 That's one too. You probably spend a lot more money than you think. So make sure you've got you know money in reserve because you're gonna need it, especially if you're gonna, if you're truly gonna be going down a regenerative journey, because you know it's not like you're gonna have perfect finishing quality chemistry in the first season. You know it's gonna take four or five years in order to you know to start. You know being able to finish on that. At least that's my experience. So be patient be patient. 45:18 - Cal Hardage (Host) Excellent advice. And, steven, where can others find out more about you? 45:23 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) So we just we just revamped we tried to revamp the website in the winter, so we're actually starting to map that out. But we put a lot more information on our website at economicfarmscom, which goes into sort of our approach to soil health and then our approach to managing animals and your approach to partnering with the community and in terms of supporting our business and what we do and what we do. So that's a good place, I think, to go and learn more about us. 45:57 - Cal Hardage (Host) Wonderful, and we will put links to your website, as well as your social media and our show notes. Steven, thank you for hopping on here and sharing with us today. We appreciate it. 46:09 - Stephen Skrenta (Guest) Now. Thank you very much. I enjoyed it and it was a pleasure speaking to you, and I wish to continue success with the Grass Farmer podcast. 46:16 - Cal Hardage (Host) Well, thank you. I appreciate that You're listening to the Grazing Grass podcast, helping grass farmers learn from grass farmers, and every episode features a grass farmer in their operation. If you've enjoyed today's episode and want to keep the conversation going, visit our community at communitygrazinggrasscom. Don't forget to follow and subscribe to the Grazing Grass podcast on Facebook, twitter, instagram and YouTube for past and future episodes. We also welcome guests to share about their own grass farming journey, so if you're interested, check out the form on grazinggrasscom under the Be Our Guest link. Until next time, keep on grazinggrass.