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0:00:00 - Cal
On today's episode we cover Jared's journey a little bit on mental health. We talk about stewardship and what that means, and then we talk about Ag Steward Day. So we'll get started with the Fast Five. What's your name?
0:00:16 - Jared
Jared Sorenson, what's your farm's name? So our ranch is Secret Pass Livestock.
0:00:25 - Cal
Where's your farm located?
0:00:27 - Jared
We are in northeastern Nevada, we're Elko County, about as far from Las Vegas as you can get and still be in the same state and just about as different from Las Vegas as you can get. So we tell people we're more like Idaho than we are like Las Vegas. People think, oh, yes. People think Nevada. They think desert, cactus, dry, nothing grows. Yeah, we are. We're high desert. We're right up against mountains. Four seasons generally have snow on the ground by this time of year. We don't this year.
0:00:58 - Cal
Oh, wow, yeah. And what year did you start grazing animals?
0:01:03 - Jared
Well, long before I was born, Cal. So my grandfather started out with sheep and well, from the time he was, from the time he was young. So I grew up, grew up grazing sheep and cattle.
0:01:17 - Cal
And what species do you graze now?
0:01:20 - Jared
So we graze primarily cattle. We have had a sheep component off and on. We sold the sheep in the late 1980s and so it's been primarily cattle. We do lease occasionally pasture for other people to bring sheep in.
0:01:37 - Cal
Oh yeah, welcome to the Grazing Grass Podcast, the podcast dedicated to sharing the stories of grass-based livestock producers and exploring regenerative practices that improve the land, animals and our lives. I'm your host, gal Hartage, and each week we'll dive into the journeys, challenges and successes of producers like you, learning from their experiences and inspiring each other to grow and graze better, and inspiring each other to grow and graze better. Whether you're a seasoned grazer or just getting started, this is the place for you. Attention ranchers, are you ready to boost your ranch's profitability in 2025? Join Noble Research Institute for Noble Profitability Essentials in McKinney Texas, this January 28th-29th.
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0:03:44 - Jared
Not always, but from a very young age. I saw my siblings go to. I'm the youngest of 10.
And I saw them grow up, go to college, study engineering and nursing and different things. One was went to flight school and so I kind of thought, well, man, that's what I need to do. But then, around I was around 12 years old. I saw, well, my dad and grandpa are ranchers. Maybe I could be a rancher. You know, I really enjoy that. I just want to be a rancher. So so yeah, pretty much from the time I was 12 years old, I, that was my focus, that was my goal in life. That was what you know, my aspiration.
0:04:24 - Cal
You know, I always think it's interesting. I have two siblings and both of them, early on, were going to school for something. I was going to school but I wanted to come home and dairy. I knew from a young age I wanted to dairy. My parents tried to talk me out of it. It didn't work so good. I went to college, then came home and there he's. I did get a degree, but I think it's interesting. Some of us just early on are geared that way thinking this is where we need to be.
0:04:56 - Jared
Yeah, that was definitely the case for me too, and I guess we can relate. The only degree I've got is a master's degree in the school of hard knocks. I've been enrolled in different colleges and you know what? I didn't even graduate from high school. I homeschooled, oh yes, when, uh, when I got to be 15 years old, I decided well, I won't, I could enroll in the community college. So I started taking classes that interested me and nobody asked for a high school diploma. So I figured it wasn't important and nobody's asked me since.
0:05:34 - Cal
So I still don't have a degree in in anything yet. Well, you know, nothing checks those face.
0:05:37 - Jared
Pieces of paper out here on the farm or ranch. Yeah, right, right, it's. You know, experience coupled with education. I think that's that what we, that's what we're striving for with with our children. So my wife and I have nine kids. Family's a big deal to us and we homeschool them. We really foster that entrepreneurial spirit. Most of them have businesses from the time. They're pretty young and and we figured that along the way they're going to learn the skills that they need and in the real world. And we're certainly not opposed to education. Some of them have gone on to college and things, but it's always more in line with hey, what is my mission and is this education going to?
going to help me fulfill my mission rather than just get a degree to earn money that you know, or just get a degree that maybe you don't earn any money, and nowadays it's oh, yeah, yeah, walk away from school with a bunch of debt.
0:06:27 - Cal
Yeah, I have an education degree that I went back to school and got, and I'm not using it right now, so that was money well spent, yeah, yeah. So when you came home to the farm I think a farm I'm in northeast Oklahoma, we call them farms. Yeah, everything to the farm. I think I farm. I'm in northeast oklahoma, we call them farms yeah, everything to us. We differentiate farm and ranch. But I know, even if you were here, it'd be a ranch because you're dealing on much bigger scale than most of my neighbors. But I always default to farm. It's just my area. But on your, your ranch, you got, your dad got out of sheep in the late 80s, or your grandpa Did you and then you came home were you all just running beef cows at the time?
0:07:13 - Jared
Yeah, so actually right. Two or three years before we sold the sheep, my grandpa was in his late 80s. He wanted to transition out of his interest in the commercial sheep business and he and my dad were gracious enough to help me to get started.
So at 14 years old, I became a partner with my dad, oh yeah, in a company that we had and um, and so we, I think at that point we had about 3,000 ewes.
And then my dad and grandpa saw kind of the writing on the wall in the late 1980s, the the lamb market was down, it was costing more to shear the sheep than the wool was worth and we had some predation issues due to policy change on our public grazing land, on the forest service, which we sustained some pretty significant predation losses on the lambs. And so, as I remember, the conversation was just on the couch one evening and dad and grandpa and I talked about it and we said, well, maybe it's time to sell the sheep and transition to cattle. I'm sure that there was a lot more to that story than I remember. You know I was very young. I draw back on that a lot because I look at so many farmers and ranchers who are so emotionally tied to the enterprise, to the land, to whatever it was that dad and grandpa did, and I get criticized, openly criticized, for making the changes that I did, and said your grandpa would roll over in his grave if he knew what you did. And I said, well, you don't know my grandpa.
My grandpa was one who was willing to pivot and shift and change. When he saw that what he was doing wasn't working anymore, he didn't ride it to the ground. And so, yeah, we did. We pivoted from from pretty much 100 sheep when we started out some very small cattle enterprise and slowly started to replace the the sheep with the cattle. And then in the late 80s we sold the last of the sheep and a hundred percent cattle at that point and have um. So yeah I. I went off, went to the community college here locally, lived at home a stint at a state college, utah state college, majored in animal science and then did an internship on the Deseret ranch in Florida, served a two-year mission, came back, went to school long enough to meet and marry my wife and then my dad said, hey, will you stay home and help us ship the calves in the fall After we got married we said yeah, and we never left. We never made it back to school, but we sure got an education along the way, cal, oh, yeah.
0:09:45 - Cal
It's a different type of education, but it's been very, very valuable. Yes, I'm sure. And, Jared, you said a couple of things in there. First off, I just want to say that ability to pivot based upon what's going on in the market, what's going on with your family, is an amazing ability. It's a skill that not everyone has. Like you said, sometimes we get attached to animals. I'm as guilty as anyone. You know, we got cow-calf here At times. I think maybe we should pivot, but I really like the cow-calf. But that ability to pivot based upon external factors or even internal to your family or whatever's needed, is a skill that not everyone has. So good job on that. Just you know, in your family, being able to make that change you I think you mentioned there that you went to college and you did an internship in Florida yeah, Did I hear you correctly? So what did you tell us about that trip to Florida and what you learned? Because that's a a totally different environment from what you were in.
0:10:48 - Jared
Yeah, yeah, that was kind of the highlight of my education up to that point. You know everything that I learned in books. It was like man, this is the real world. So I worked on the Deseret Ranch, one of the largest ranches in North America I think at that point they were running about 30,000 head of cattle and so very efficiently run. A foreman and two cowboys would take care of about 3000 head on what they call the unit, which is basically an independent ranch part of a bigger hole, and it was rotational grazing. It was kind of my first experience with somewhat rotational at that point, not super intensive, but we did move the cattle a lot.
Very different environment. We went from a very what savory institute would term as a brittle environment here in the west to a very non-brittle tropical environment there in florida. Lots of water. You, you know, your, your, your saddle would mold with this tack shed. It was just, you were always wet, your boots never ran out. So it was.
It was neat to be able to see the difference and work under a very, very competent manager, paul Janot, who went on to, you know, work in the King Ranch Institute and the higher ups in the Deseret Ranching Organization. I was only 18 years old Institute and the higher ups in the Deseret ranching organization. I was only 18 years old and so I didn't know enough to ask him questions. But I do remember his son was my age and you know sitting out on the trampoline after dinner with another intern that was there and his son and and he explained, you know, kind of mentoring us, teaching us without us really knowing it, and gleaned some some pretty neat things about the way he managed, the way he's led. He was a, he was a really good leader. I have a ton of respect for him and often wish that I could go back, you know, now and and learn from somebody of that caliber.
0:12:39 - Cal
But Right, I'm sure you would listen so much more intently now than you did then.
0:12:45 - Jared
Yeah, and you know, one of the biggest lessons that I learned, cal and this isn't for everybody, this was just my own lesson but with everything that I did, stewardship is a big piece of my upbringing. And you know, even though it's backwards, our company is Ag Steward, our consulting company. That stewardship piece was important to me. That stewardship piece was important to me. But I realized that I had a different feeling inside when it was something that I knew that I was building for myself and future generations than just a corporation Like I was just a cog in a wheel and I was there for four months and I was gone and it went on and right, and I realized that I wanted to build something for our own legacy and kind of embrace that entrepreneurial spirit.
And again, that's not for everybody, but for me that was something that was the biggest lesson that I learned. There was like I don't want to do this. I didn't really like the heat, didn't like the water, moccasins and alligators and always being wet and all that stuff either. Oh yeah, so I learned that like I didn't want to ranch in that environment, I'd rather ranch in the West, but for me it was important. Hey, I want to do this where there is not only stewardship but a level of ownership for me and for posterity.
0:14:03 - Cal
Did that experience in Florida change the way you approached the ranch at home?
0:14:09 - Jared
It did. It did in a lot of ways. You know, at that point there was kind of a big gap between when I came back from Florida and when I came back to the ranch.
Right, because you went on a mission in there, went on a mission and then back to school and got married and those things and so.
But I often would draw back on probably the leadership and the efficiency of being able to manage that intensively that many employees and do it profitably. And so there was a lot of there's a lot of good lessons that I learned and definitely, you know, I didn't begin to understand ecology, but the other thing that we did that was kind of cool. There is, they got everybody together and we wrote a mission statement for the business and you could see some of those old cowboys there. You know they would be in that meeting that I yeah, cattle to move are here. They would grumble, they would be like this is just a waste of time. But it was really neat to for me to see like this is that important that they're going to take time away from work and they're going to set everybody down and get everybody's input right. Yes, statement and each unit would set their goals and and so tons of good lessons, tons of good lessons from that yeah, yes, it sounds like it getting everyone on board and building that buy-in.
0:15:35 - Cal
So you went on your mission. You um, got married, went back to the ranch. At that time you were running beef cattle on the ranch.
0:15:47 - Jared
Yeah, we had. Our primary enterprise was cow-calf herd. Traditional cow-calfs sell the calves in the commodity market in the fall and that was a system that worked for a long time. Oh, yeah.
We were running on pretty extensive BLM allotment, like half a million acres, didn't have to feed hay because we could winter out and then kind of some again the rules of the game changed.
The wild horse population started to grow exponentially out on that allotment and my dad was actually serving. Well, back up my dad started served his first mission. He and my mom when I was like 24 years old when they, when we snipped to the stewardship of the ranch. At that point and things clicked along pretty good until kind of the rules of the game changed. We got to the point where we couldn't compete on the range with the wild horses and my dad said, hey, should we sell the ranch, should we sell this BLM allotment? And my dad was on like the fourth of their missions, he was in Mexico and finally, the fourth time, third or fourth time that he asked me that I realized that he wasn't, he wasn't going to tell me because he respected my position in management, but he was making his idea, what he saw as the right idea, my idea, and letting me come to it.
0:17:04 - Cal
Oh yeah.
0:17:05 - Jared
And so my wife and I said, okay, dad's inspired, we need to trust him. So yeah, let's do that. So we pivoted, we sold that. Along with that, we shifted from, you know, grazing year-round out on an extensive blm allotment to custom grazing, all on private land. So pretty significant change. Oh yes, since then we've tried different enterprises. We're still working to find the right enterprise mix for what our resource base is. Right now it's still primarily cattle, but we custom graze cow-calf pairs and yearlings, direct, market grass-fed beef and then finish cattle for others.
0:17:43 - Cal
Oh yes, now you direct market grass-fed beef and then finish cattle for others. Oh yes, Um, now you, you direct market some beef, so is that some you're finished? Do you buy some in for yourself that you you finish out to direct market? Or how's that working with your custom grazing?
0:18:01 - Jared
Yeah, so we will, we'll, we'll buy. Really like to finish heifer rats, but if we can find oh, okay, meet our protocol. Those, those work really good. There are margins on those are the best. We do keep some of our own over and finish them, usually around 30 months of age, Um and so finished on forage and and then, yeah, we've sold into some branded beef programs in the past also, as well as direct marketing.
0:18:29 - Cal
On that direct marketing bit just a little bit. How long have you been doing that portion?
0:18:35 - Jared
2016 is really when my wife kicked off our company Ruby Mountain Foods. Oh yes, prior to that, you know, we'd sold kind of like every ranch. People would come by. Hey, I want to buy beef. It's like sure We'll take an extra one when we go for the butcher and just meet us, pick it up or whatever. But 2016 is when we when we made it a separate business, the marketing business that buys the cattle from the ranch, and so, yeah, that's that eight. About eight years we've been more on the direct marketing.
0:19:05 - Cal
And you're grass finishing them.
0:19:07 - Jared
Yep, yep, grass finishing, primarily finishing during the spring or spring and fall, harvesting spring and or I mean sorry, summer and fall. And then you know we've got some back cattle now that are ready to go to butcher. We can get them finished and hold that finish into the winter. But we're experimenting with putting weight on using fermented forages. Had a really cool speaker on our last summit who talked about the potential of that using fermented forages to be able to finish year round.
0:19:36 - Cal
Oh yes, we're excited about that. That'll be interesting to see how that works for you.
0:19:41 - Jared
Yeah, yeah. We feel like you know that could open up some avenues to be able to provide more of a consistent year round product.
0:19:50 - Cal
Oh yeah, and one thing on your direct to market. Are you selling your, your beaves as halves and holes or are you selling them by cut?
0:19:59 - Jared
We are. We are taking pre-orders right now, selling them as quarters, halves and holes. We have inventoried in the past, gone through the USDA process and sold in smaller packages down to like 16th or an eight.
0:20:11 - Cal
Oh yeah.
0:20:13 - Jared
And inventoried that and then shipped. We at this point now we are just taking pre-orders and then harvesting once or twice a year and then our customers seem to understand that you know once or twice a year. And then our customers seem to understand that you know, they've got to kind of ration it out and then they're going to fill up the freezer again in the fall, right?
0:20:35 - Cal
yeah Well, very interesting, jared, let's change gears just a little bit. I believe earlier this year you all put or not put in because it kind of defeats the purpose, but you started utilizing virtual fence. Yeah yeah, what product did you go with, and how's that going for you? What you've had about six months of use with that?
0:21:01 - Jared
Yeah, we went through the summer season. We utilized vents. Yeah, we went through. We went through the summer season, we utilized vents. They they had some hiccups as far as some of the callers that they sent were not optimal, Something with the programming, and so we definitely had a huge learning curve. Full transparency. We had a full on wreck, Cal oh no.
Well that happens. It's not the virtual fencing part in and of itself, but we don't want to paint the picture like we've got it all figured out here. We had some cattle get into some area with larkspur Larkspur and cattle don't mix very well and we tipped a lot of cows over and it's tough when you're stewarding the land and you're stewarding these cattle, yeah, you're like holy cow. What are the financial ramifications plus, what does that do to your morale? It's, it was a tough.
It was a tough thing for our business, it was a tough thing for our family, it's a tough thing for the families that we were grazing cattle for learned a lot of lessons from it. We still don't know exactly how we're going to adjust going forward, because you know this is a pretty extensive piece of country that we traditionally had run sheep on ahead of the cattle and we no longer have access to that tool because of things outside of our control, and so the virtual fencing, I still think, has a place, and probably a bigger place because we can exclude some of those areas. So I definitely, like we definitely are committed to making it work and we're also working in conjunction with Kateri on the carbon credit side to be able to show that through proper management, livestock grazing like we can actually sequester carbon on large acreages, and so it's kind of pushing the envelope a little bit, but we're optimistic that you know we will be able to find a workable solution long-term.
0:22:57 - Cal
Oh yeah.
0:22:58 - Jared
But yeah, it's, you know you, you kind of all of us at some point are going to go through that refiner's fire and kind of you kind of get tested. What are you made of? You know, do you have that resiliency to be able to keep going when things look like kind of hopeless?
0:23:16 - Cal
So I agree and I I think it's important we share those stories with people as well, because you know, we have social media out there showing the highlight real and, and sometimes that gives people a false image of what's really going on. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I assume you're still believing the potential of it and you can get it going and hopefully it goes better in the future.
0:23:44 - Jared
Yeah, absolutely. I mean we've had conversations with not only the virtual fence owners but internally, like what do we need to change up in our management? But the potential of the virtual fence to be able to implement rest into these large landscapes, I think is huge. Large landscapes, I think is huge. That's the one piece that we haven't been able to do on this, like we, through hurting and times changing up season of use, we've been able to see some improvement but because it's not feasible to be able to cross fence it.
It was really tough for us to move the cattle out of the area and not have them return, and so we couldn't provide that rest period that we needed.
Oh yes, which now that's our hope, is that we can do that. Like I don't know that we're ever going to be super intensive on this steep, rugged, rough country and I don't know that we need to be either. Like I think our marginal, we are very intensive on our irrigated meadows, like daily moves every other day, moves multiple times a day. That's going to respond really well. These uplands. I'm not seeing the practicality of doing that up there yet and maybe that's a paradigm for me. You know, in three to five years maybe I'll see it differently. Like no, this absolutely has to be done because it's gonna increase our carrying capacity. We're going to accelerate regeneration on this landscape. I'm not seeing it yet. I'm not saying that you know there's not other people who are doing it and getting good results, but it is. You know it's context dependent. So even on the same oh, it is Our management is going to adapt very much between our lowlands, our mid, you know kind of our benches, and then uplands. So I.
0:25:35 - Cal
I see huge potential for the virtual fencing. I see potential in my area for it and I'm not talking about stringing a polywire more than a eighth or a quarter of a mile. I strung one today a quarter of a mile to to break some stuff up. But I'm not dealing with the. The area you're dealing with, yeah.
0:25:55 - Jared
Yeah. So I think, especially, like you know, I hope I hope it's never mandated by agencies, like I never liked that top down approach. But if people like ag smith on the cottonwood ranch that are doing it voluntarily, I'm all for that, and if they have to back it up and say, hey, here's our before and after pictures, here's what we've been able to do. And, most importantly, you know, this is how it's translating to the profitability of the ranch. We can't leave out that component, like what we do needs to be profitable, it's got to be regenerative. But we also have to make sure that, hey, this family can stay here for generations to come, and so that's why, you know, early adopters, I think sometimes we have to go through these learning curves, and they're expensive through these learning curves and they're expensive, um, they're painful, they're hard, but there's also a lot to gain as we learn. Oh yeah, and then hopefully, others can learn from our experiences as well, and you know, they don't have to repeat those same mistakes. They'll get to make their own mistakes.
0:27:01 - Cal
Right, I definitely try and make my fair share.
0:27:04 - Jared
Oh yeah, we got to fail. A couple of good things every year. Right, I definitely try and make my fair share. Oh yeah, we got to fail.
0:27:09 - Cal
A couple of good things every year, right, right. But who says it that if you're not failing, you're not trying hard enough?
0:27:13 - Jared
Oh yeah.
0:27:14 - Cal
Yeah.
0:27:15 - Jared
Yeah, I know there's a lot of. There's a lot of that that goes around. Just use failures fertilizer and it's it's part of it's part of your old cow.
0:27:25 - Cal
Yeah, let's. Let's talk about stewardship, and in fact, that's going to be our overgrazing section for today, sponsored by Redmond. At Redmond, we know that you thrive when your animals do. That's why it's essential to fill the gaps in your herd's nutrition with the minerals that they need. Made by nature, our ancient mineral salt and conditioner clay are the catalyst in optimizing the nutrients your animals get from their forage. Unaltered and unrefined, our minerals have the natural balance and proportion that your animals prefer. This gives your herd the ability to naturally regulate their mineral consumption as they graze. Our minerals won't just help you improve the health of your animals, but will also help you naturally build soil fertility so you can grow more nutrient-dense pasture year after year. Nourish your animals, your soil and your life with Redmond. Learn more at redmondagriculturecom, where we take a deeper dive, and today we're going to talk about stewardship. So just to get started, when we say stewardship, what does that mean to you?
0:28:44 - Jared
Stewardship means to me. I can't separate it from a biblical perspective. Oh yeah, and what you know, Christ used the parable of the profitable steward, and that's the name of our podcast is the profitable steward, and it comes from that. So to some was given a certain amount of talents, to others less and less. Those who were rewarded were those who went and utilized them and grew them, and the one who was punished was the one who went and hid it. So stewardship is taking what we've been given and helping it to grow and to expand, and in so doing we bless not only our lives but the lives of others around us.
Being profitable from a business standpoint is part of stewardship. Like that is important we need if we're going to provide for our families. If we're going to provide for other families and buy goods and sell goods, we better do it at a profit, and I know that's probably a little outside the context, but not really. I mean, if the one who was given five talents returned 10, he was profitable in that sense of the word. Talents were a denomination of money at that point, so he was profitable monetarily Plus. He was a profitable steward, meaning that he utilized what he'd been given and grew it.
0:30:14 - Cal
You know if and I know you know this and it gets brought up a lot but if you're not profitable, where's your ranch going to be in a few years? It's probably not going to be you doing it then.
0:30:27 - Jared
Yeah, yeah, and that I'd love to hear turn it back on you. What is your, what is your definition of profitability?
0:30:38 - Cal
Profitability. Well, for for me it's sustainability, because if I'm not profitable, I can't keep the farm going long-term, and I think it's very important. I think, when we look at profitability on the farm and if we're just talking profitability, talking numbers, that we make sure we get everything included in there and we value our time. I feel like, in my opinion, so often when people talk about profitability, they're undervaluing their time.
And your time can go in a lot of different directions and you can get into opportunity costs and I don't really get into that because that gets out there a little bit. But you've got to value your time and you've got to be able to, at the end of the day, have money for your family and if you don't, you're not profitable. And that, to me, feeds in that stewardship, taking care of stuff for the future as well. I think, while that doesn't affect the, I mean it can affect the bottom line, but I want, I want this land in better shape than it was when I was here. I want to leave something better. So that doesn't really play into the numbers on a spreadsheet, but it is very important to me.
0:31:56 - Jared
Yeah, yeah, that's. That's something we're we're struggling with quantifying and coming up with an across the board way to be able to measure profit, because, you know, I'm a student of Ranching for Profit. I'm with the Savory Institute. Our CFO, Todd Churchill, does enterprise accounting and so we certainly we know about accounting for opportunity cost. We know about looking at each component or profit center or enterprise within the business, but we also, I believe we also have to look at things that are harder to quantify. When we're looking at profit Cal, we need to look at quality of life Like are we doing what we're?
0:32:38 - Cal
doing.
0:32:39 - Jared
Are we stressed? How is our health? How are our relationships? They're harder to quantify, but they're just as important, and you know Well they are. But they're just as important and you know Well they are. In agriculture, like you probably heard, the statistic that you know the suicide rate amongst in the agriculture industry is the highest amongst all industries.
Yes, why is that and how can we? How can we mitigate that? So we count for our well-being, our quality of life. And then also, I think, we have to look at the ecology and we have to say are we building soil, organic matter, over time? Are we truly regenerative, meaning that we're increasing our capacity over time, our carrying capacity of the land, thus increasing our infiltration rate, thus decreasing bare soil, thus being able to run more livestock on the same number of acres, and that should translate to more profit. Not always does it, because sometimes it's missing pieces.
But that's the idea, right. We increase that capacity without increasing overhead costs or not exponentially increasing them, so that that margin grows. How do we do that? At some point, cal man, I hope that we have financial institutions that not only look at your balance sheet but they look at your ecological score. Something like what? Oh yes, what? Like the savory institute. Does you know we're we're certified regenerative. With savory institute, we have a track record that our trend is going up because we score higher on these key areas that they measure.
So far, we can't necessarily monetize that and I'm not saying about monetizing it. I guess we're selling carbon credits and things like that. But what if? Maybe this is in the weeds, maybe you'll edit this out, but we'll just go here for just saying what if? What if the interest rate that you were offered was not only contingent upon your credit score and your ability to repay, and all those things are important. Right, these ratios, and all those things are important. Right, these ratios. But what if you were rewarded for having a good ecological health score? Oh, yeah, because what is that doing to your community if you are affecting the watershed? Right, if you are increasing the wildlife density and diversity on the land that you steward. If you are affecting the small water cycle on your property, is that not a benefit to the community?
0:35:19 - Cal
Oh yeah, it is.
0:35:20 - Jared
Yeah, and I'd never want government to mandate that this happens. I don't like that approach. But if if individuals were to say, hey, this is important to us and our pooled money is going to go to this farmer rancher because we value what he's doing and we're willing to offer it to him at a lower rate than another rancher who is using a degenerative model, then to me I'm all for that. That's free market.
0:35:56 - Cal
Oh yeah.
0:35:56 - Jared
Somebody saying this is what I value and I'm going to pay and I'm going to get paid for it. So I don't know, was that too much in the weeds you?
0:36:04 - Cal
know, I think that's very interesting. You know, my mind immediately becomes how do you? You've got to be able to objectively qualify this, yeah, and that gets difficult at times, of course. You mentioned Conteri Carbon. They're doing some things to do it, and the Savory Institute with the certified regenerative. There's some ways that that's starting to happen.
0:36:29 - Jared
There's some ways that that's starting to happen. Yep Regenified others, John Kempf has his own. Oh yeah, there's lots of ways. Yeah, how do we? How do we do that? So when we look at a business, yeah, the numbers people generally don't come to Ag Stewart and say, hey, I need help ecologically. There's lots of stuff that can go out there. Those are kind of the lagging indicators, the leading indicators are dang.
0:36:55 - Cal
Are we going to make?
0:36:56 - Jared
it through this year, oh yeah. Or they've heard me share my story of depression and going through that and they're like thank you for being vulnerable. I've been there too and I didn't know who to turn to. Those are the things when they come to us, and you know those other, the as important as soil, health and ecology and grazing practices are like. A lot of times we just say, hey, let's stop the bleeding in your business and make sure you're taken care of. Let's work on you oh yeah, let's work on you.
And then, yeah, let's work on you. And then, when you get straight, you're going to have more capacity to be able to steward those things that you have stewardship over. But doggone it. If we don't get this fixed, what does the rest of it matter?
0:37:42 - Cal
right, Right. Well, you know, just use that analogy of the airplane going down. You've got to put on your own oxygen masks first before you can help someone else, Yep. So so you gotta get get yourself in order before you can make the difference you really want to make.
0:38:00 - Jared
Yeah, yep, and those, those things Cal. They are a little bit harder to quantify, they're a little bit harder to, they're maybe not as as sexy to talk about, but let me tell you those are, those are the things that, when it comes to, like a ranch falling apart, certainly foreclosure is a big one, but the things that are underlying those probably aren't going to come out necessarily in a survey. If you're going to ask people, if you're going to ask people, but almost always, if you drill down, there's going to be something that's below the surface that is feeding to the things that are above the surface that are measured either in profitability or mental health, emotional health relationships, things like that. So I think it's important to really take that holistic view and be willing to ask those tough questions and and drill down a little bit instead of just instead of just saying you know, let's work on your gross margins, oh yeah, those are the easy things to to to fix when you think about those gross margins.
0:39:03 - Cal
That's what someone's first willing to maybe let down their guard and talk about first, though. Yep, yep, yeah. So that's your way in.
0:39:12 - Jared
Yeah, absolutely so. That's why we you know we talked about and you were on one of our events this last year and you know we talk about soil, health, profitability, legacy, oh yeah, but I'm always bringing in outside perspectives about relationship and physical health, mental health those components as well, because they're just as important.
0:39:33 - Cal
Oh they are, and you know mental health is discussed a lot more than it used to be, but it's still probably not at the point it needs to be.
0:39:42 - Jared
Yeah, it's still a taboo for our industry.
0:39:46 - Cal
Right yeah.
0:39:47 - Jared
Hopefully, hopefully, through some of the work that we're doing and others that you know we can, people know that there is help out there, there, absolutely, there, absolutely is, and probably the only thing I need to say on that subject is that I have I've never seen anybody who has in the depths of depression, who doesn't have somebody within their circle of influence who can help them, like you always.
God's never gonna. God's never gonna put us on an island, put us on the end of our rope. He's always gonna have somebody. Oh yeah, whether or not that person recognizes it, that's the question. So we all know, we all know the suicide rates and things and they're just statistics until it's you know somebody that's in question. So we all know, we all know the suicide rates and things, and they're just statistics until it's you know somebody that's in your circle of influence. Right when you learn to recognize those indicators and you can intervene and be that lifeline for somebody else, that's you know. That's important because, yeah, that's I. I firmly believe that that, no matter what we're going through, there's going to be somebody there. I've seen it with my own experience. I've seen it in the experience of others that there's somebody there that's going to reach out and help us, or somebody that hopefully we have the capacity to reach out to and the humility to.
0:41:03 - Cal
Right, just to go on that. I think it's important. Sometimes, you know, we're getting told to reach out to someone and sometimes, as humans, we want to resist that urge. But there's usually a different reason in there question, a path or something. Someone's reached out and I'm like, oh, you know I'm going in the right direction or this is what I need to do. So we have to be willing to listen, to see our part in that?
0:41:41 - Jared
Yep, yeah, we do, and that takes a dose of humility and you know, kind of swallowing that pride, but if we want to change it, that's really what it's about.
0:41:53 - Cal
Very true. You mentioned earlier about the Savory Institute and holistic management. When did you get interested in that and follow the path to more holistic management?
0:42:08 - Jared
Yeah, it really started, I guess in the early 2000s. I attended a Rancho for Profit school in spring of 2003. I was invited by a friend. I didn't really know what I was getting into, but I went, attended and just kind of ate it up, and because of that experience I was introduced to Bud Williams, Very blessed to be indirectly mentored by him and Eunice Met, Wally Olson and Gerald Fry and Alan Nation and just some of the greats who, some of them are no longer with us anymore. Oh yes, In fact all three of those people are gone, right, Bud Williams, Gerald Frey and Al Nation. And so I counted a true blessing that I was able to get started when I did, when they were still alive and were still teaching.
So it expanded my mind to see like, okay, there's a way that Dan and Grandpa did things and largely it was focused on stewardship and it was good management. Like they, I think they were good range managers. They were definitely good livestock managers, they were good leaders and they were doing the best that they could with the knowledge that they had. And then what I've tried to do is add to that I've certainly failed a lot in the process along the way between the learning and the application. But we've been able to see some some pretty cool results, you know, as we've increased our carrying capacity, we've reached, we're restoring watersheds, we're seeing beavers move back in to the landscape where they haven't been in 50 years.
Oh yes, it's, it is. It is neat to see that the land is responding. Our fields are now more diverse. Earthworms are moving back into our irrigated pastures and even into our uplands. In the springtime you can kick over cow pies and see, you know, handfuls of earthworms in there. So it's been a process. I guess it wasn't like oh dang, I just went to this class and got it all figured out. It would be learn, and what I found was that leveraging the power of coaching and mentoring is really important. Things that they had in common amongst the founders of the United States, and that was they all had good mentors and they were all part of communities of like-minded people. They had their own mastermind.
Oh yes, like Benjamin Franklin called it La Junta, his little mastermind group, and so I realized, man, if that was important for them, that should be important for me. We become the sum of our closest associates. Oh, we do, yes. So if we want to change our outcomes and we need to be around people who are not talking about problems or talking about opportunities and solutions, so let's see, I guess really embrace the Savory Institute in like 2020, when we started learning about land to market and getting this certification of being regenerative and part of that was going through their 10 day training, which I did with Spencer Smith and the White Buffalo Hub in California. Now we're associated I'm a certified educator with the Avi Hub out of Northern California, avi and Andrea, and those guys are awesome, like they're been a great sponsor to us of what we do on the ranch, and then with our coaching company, ag Steward Um, and so I highly recommend that and we're what we're trying to do is just not recreate the wheel necessarily, like you know, and and also not plagiarize and use what they're doing.
But we're saying here's the framework and here's how we're applying it on our landscape and here's how we're helping others to apply it in their context and in their landscape with their holistic goals. They call it in their holistic framework or holistic context, meaning what we call vision, mission, values in Ag Steward. Oh yes, and that application is going to look probably very different, right when you're at and where I'm at, because the context is different and we're different, and so we take all those things into account and so certainly it's been an evolutionary process over the last uh, what is it like? 22 years? And I, every, every day, I realize you know, what I know grows, but my circle of ignorance also grows proportionately. There's so much more that I don't know.
0:46:41 - Cal
Right, the, the more. The more you learn, the less you know.
0:46:47 - Jared
Yeah, and that's a true principle and it's just you just kind of have to embrace that. But yeah, that's, lifelong learning is really important. When you quit learning, you know that's never good, it's part of atrophy. Don't continue to cultivate your mind and utilize that muscle.
0:47:06 - Cal
Yes, you mentioned Ag Stewart there. Can you describe what all you all do through AgStewart?
0:47:15 - Jared
Yeah, so AgStewart is an education and a coaching company for farmers and ranchers. Our goal is to help family-owned farmers and ranchers to become highly profitable, regenerate the land that they steward and create viable businesses that last for generations. We started in 20, well, I actually, you know, started coaching and mentoring and having interns from the time that we took over management of the ranch in the early 2000s. Oh, yes, so 2020, let's see, 2022 is when we really so. 2022 is when we kicked off Ag Steward. We did a virtual summit with multiple speakers and then we rolled out hey, we, you know, this is what our mission is, and our product and service is to be able to work with families one-on-one, to be able to help them unify their blind spots, recognize their opportunities, get clear on where their vision is and create a path to be able to get there, which includes profitability, quality of life, land regeneration, proper stewardship along the way.
And then in 2023, we or 2024, we ramped things up and we started doing quarterly summits and twice a month expert interviews, webinars that are repurposed on a on our podcast channel, as profitable as the profitable steward podcast. So that's that's really the mission of Ag. Steward is to be able to connect people, going back to what the founders found and and it existed long before that but the coach, the mentor, the community and then a level of accountability coupled with the education, and so we. There's so much education out there on social media, classes, youtube, it's all out there.
What we're trying to do is help guide people through that and say, okay, where you're at right now, here's the experts, here's the people that you need to be able to get to your goal. So you don't get out because you know, my journey has been 20 years and I've certainly had some great coaches and mentors, but very few of them knew the principles of coaching. To ask why and drill down and to ask let's get to know yourself first, and then we can better guide you on this path. And it's never going to look like a straight line, cal, but instead of going here and here and here and be very disjointed, we can say, okay, here's a more direct path to be able to get to your goal.
0:50:02 - Cal
The likelihood of success is going to increase along the way you're doing quarterly now. How is that going? And just give kind of an overview for our listeners if they're not familiar with it.
0:50:16 - Jared
Yeah, that's been very well received. We've had attendees from across most of the United States, canada, central South America and then other continents Australia, south Africa. It's neat to see that this message of regeneration is resonating with people across the world.
Oh, yes and we've been very blessed, like the people, including yourself who've been, who recognize that, hey, you know, there's this, there's this guy that's trying to do this and we're going to support him and hopefully it goes back to you as well Like we're able to connect, we're able to share and I'm not going to ever run the grazing grass podcast. Your message is unique, it's different, it's yours, my message is unique and different, but there's some complimentary things that can happen there, and so that's my goal is that, as guest speakers come on, they, the listeners, can say hey, this is the piece that I need, and kind of what our guarantee is is that if you show up and you're attentive and you participate, you will know the next step that you need to take on your regenerative journey.
Oh yeah, um, yeah, and a lot of times that might be working with somebody. Sometimes it's working with Ag Steward, as we serve as your guide on that process. Sometimes it's more like, hey, my weak link is really on the production side. You know, I've got to dial in why my yields have gone down when I switched to regenerative practices, and so it might be working with one of our colleagues that's able to dive deep and say, hey, you know, here's what happened when you pulled off a synthetic fertilizers and here's what we can do to be able to get you back into production and profitability quickly so that you can oh, yeah. So yeah, I appreciate you asking. That's been. It's been very rewarding to see that it's received within our community, cal, and so we have another one January 21st and 22nd.
I have a pretty awesome lineup of speakers. I think it will be the same URL legacyagstewardco. We usually try to stick to that same URL across the board. We have twice a month events that come out. If you just search for Ag Steward on social media, you can usually find those. With expert speakers, generally there's a regenerative agriculture flair. Sometimes they're relationship experts. Sometimes they're very much geared upon entrepreneurship and don't know the difference between a heifer and a steer, and I think that's valuable too, because they can look at our I do yeah, yeah and and I agree Feedback.
0:52:57 - Cal
So yeah, I. I think those virtual summits are a great way to listen to a lot of different people and to find out information and their price very reasonably. Yep, ours is free, so you don't have too too many excuses to not be there.
0:53:14 - Jared
People. We know we we offer it for free. We do value people's time and so we realize, okay, your investment of time is your payment to get started here and then from there, you know, you can look at what we do at paid events and then to one-on-one coaching. The other thing that we're just rolling out here also Cal is a membership area, oh yes, which is a group opportunity to be able to learn, Because not everybody's ready for the time and the investment to work with us one-on-one. It's the same content, it's just going to be each of our time. It's going to be more. You do it on yourself. We're going to provide on-the-sidelines guidance, Whereas if you're coaching with us one-on-one, we're kind of in the game with you. Oh yes, we're kind of in the game with you, oh yes, and we're players. So you can check that out.
Next week this is going to come out, but our initial inauguration webinar is tentatively scheduled. Well, we have a hard schedule of December 17th, 17th, 18th, whatever the Wednesday is oh yeah, you can link in. Whatever the Wednesday is oh yeah, you can link in there, depending on when it comes out, but the idea is in. Third, we're going to be talking about what it looks like to work in our membership area, helping you take that next step in that area, plus providing tons of value when you show up. Live to that.
And again, my guarantee is is that we're going to help you identify what your next step is. Can we do that in 60 minutes? Well, if we can't, then I'm going to open it up and I'm going to say jump on a one-on-one call with me or one of our coaches and we'll do a deep dive, Like how can we help you? Because we want to be sure that you know we're actually providing value to you. So that's the first and third, and then the second and fourth is when we have a guest speaker. Come on, and those are happening every month. So four different classes. They're all free and that's a good way to be able to kind of check out what we do.
0:55:19 - Cal
See if it's a good fit. Very good, we'll put a link to that in our show notes. And, jared, it's time for our famous four questions. Same four questions we ask of all of our guests. Today's famous four questions are sponsored by Manderley Farms Grazing Conference. Attention all farmers, ranchers and land enthusiasts, join us for our unforgettable grazing conference on February 21st and 22nd 2025. At the beautiful Manderley Farms in Pikeville, tennessee, nestled in the scenic Sasquatchie Valley, this is your chance to learn from the best in the business. Our speakers include the renowned Greg Judy, alongside the dynamic duo Greg and Debbie Brin. Expect engaging sessions, informative pastor walks and interactive question and answer sessions with our experts. Discover how to revolutionize your land management with regenerative grazing practices. Whether you're looking to enhance soil health, increase biodiversity or improve your pasture productivity, this conference is tailored for you. Don't miss this opportunity to grow your knowledge and your farm. For more details and secure your spot, visit wwwmanderleyfarmscom. That's M-A-N-D-E-R-L-E-Y. See you in the Sasquatchie Valley. And our first question what is your favorite grazing grass-related book or resource?
0:56:58 - Jared
A great question, cal. I don't know if I can boil it down to just one. I'll tell you, maybe the top three things that have helped me. They're not necessarily in order of importance here my experience working with and seeing Nicole Masters that opened my eyes that, hey, there's a whole world, that, uh, microbial life that's beneath our feet and there's a lot of other people talk about that now, but for me she was kind of the one that opened that window and helped me to see that we're not only livestock managers of the livestock above ground, but our, our underground herd, yes, um. So integrity soils, um great resource. Highly, uh highly encourage folks to be able to go and check out what Nicole Masters does and her team. Um.
The Savory Institute um, alan Savory's books are kind of hard to get through, but you know, if you're brand new to it, check out his TED talk. It's um, you know, it is world famous of being able to disseminate that information in a way that resonates with people, whether they're in agriculture or not. Um, so plug into, plug into the Savory Institute and then the sec, or the third, the third thing that I've seen, um, I would have to say stockmanship is a big component to to proper grazing. Um, I was blessed to learn and certainly I'm not an expert in it, but um paradigm shifting, working with folks like Bud Williams, um, steve Cody and some of their, some of their students. Um, my, my boys have been to Richard and Tina's school. Um, certainly Wally Olson and others who, uh, don Notto, um, she's been to our ranch and been able to help us. Um, Bob Kinford has kind of his own flair.
0:58:56 - Cal
Yes.
0:58:57 - Jared
Uh, josh and Gwen Hoy. Um, those are some of the some of the really good practitioners that I know personally that are able to help a person to implement that, because I've seen when you implement a more intensive grazing strategy and the cattle aren't adapted, it can be very stressful to the cattle and to the people, and so it's imperative that you learn proper stockmanship skills. Being able to get the principle is the cattle at the right place, at the right time, for the right reason, with the right behavior, and if you can do that, you're going to have success in your grazing practices.
0:59:44 - Cal
Yeah, Excellent resources there, Jared. Our second question what's your? Favorite tool for the ranch.
0:59:55 - Jared
Oh man, Again you're asking me, so my mind goes to different things. I'm not a super techie guy when it comes to the ranch, but practical tools like Pasture Map has been a great tool for us to be able to put a grazing plan together and then also to be able to share with people that come in as contract labor, like when you tell them to go fix a fence that we know that they're not going to go fix the neighbor's fence if you say hey go fix cowhull.
They can put it on their map and they can see when they cross the boundary into the neighbors and so you know when you're operating on a large scale to. To us that's been really valuable to to be able to have um more of a tactical tool.
Um, you know, we are uh, more old school, we we utilize horses a lot, um, and so we we try to foster that my boys like to rope. So being able to pastor, doctor and having that component to the stockmanship and to the herd management, um, and being able to foster that culture, that's also pretty important to our operation and kind of a lost not not a dying art, but you know it is uh, as we utilize drones and virtual fencing and atvs and and UTVs and all that stuff. That's a component that we don't want to see go obsolete.
1:01:31 - Cal
Right, yeah. Thirdly, what would you tell someone just getting started?
1:01:38 - Jared
Don't give up. You know there's going to be a lot of naysayers out there that say you can't do it, that this dream's impossible, um, secondly, I would say go find somebody who can be a mentor to you and who is successful in the area that you want to learn about. And, um, if you need to pay them, um, because that is going to be the very best return on your money the very best investment that you can make is to be able to pay somebody who is willing to take it seriously and say, hey, you know, you might have to teach them what being a coach was. When I asked Wally Olson to coach me, he was very gracious. His payment was that I do the work. He said go read the one minute manager.
The next week I came back, I'd listened to it and I could report back. I listened to it, um, and so it. It might look very different than like signing up for a coaching program. It's just saying, hey, you know something, I want to know what you know. Will you help me to learn? And people are gracious and they're going to do that, and I've been so blessed to be able to have those people in my life and so yeah, coach a mentor.
1:02:56 - Cal
pretty critical piece, very good advice.
1:03:02 - Jared
And lastly, jared, where can others find out more about you? Yeah, so social media is probably the best place. Facebook is our biggest presence. If you just look for Ag Steward, we're running some things to the events that we do. We have different URLs for events. At some point Hopefully very soon we're going to have one centralized place that we can send people where they can get to it, but agstewardco. But there's always a separate landing page to that. So I would say search it on Facebook, look for it.
And the Profitable Steward podcast. And then the Profitable Ag uh, our YouTube channel, which is, I think, even better than our podcast channel because you get to see 90% of the people who are on our podcast. They do it presentation style. Oh yeah, we're going to have slides and pictures and things that they can share. Um, and a picture picture speaks a thousand words. So you know, if it's an hour long podcast, you're going to get so much more information. Um, pulling it up on YouTube and, uh, and so that's, yeah, the profitable ag steward. Just look for our podcast playlist on there. Um, and we can throw in your show notes also.
1:04:17 - Cal
Yeah, we'll, we'll put those links in our show notes for for everyone.
1:04:21 - Jared
Yeah, yeah, Jared appreciate you coming on and sharing with us today. Hey, I appreciate what you're doing this. This is an important work. We can't do it alone. It's neat to see that this community is growing and, uh, we certainly welcome people into this community, into the Ag Steward family. And if regeneration, regenerative agriculture, is new to you, I would say you know, dispel we hope to dispel the myth that it's just some kind of a fad, that is some marketing ploy like this is it's more than just a label, it's more than just a term like live the regenerative lifestyle. Oh, yes, yep, yes, yep, and along the way, um, there'll be great. So, uh, it's, it's going to be a part of this community.
1:05:12 - Cal
Well, thank you, Jared.
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