Join us as we explore the fascinating world of regenerative farming with Peter Byck, the talented producer and director of the docuseries "Roots so Deep You Can See the Devil Down There." We chat about the inception and journey of creating this compelling series, focusing on a science project rooted in regenerative farming practices across the Southeast US. Peter shares insights on the unexpected findings from the farmers involved, the evolving science behind the project, and the profound impact of these practices on both the land and its people. He also opens up about his personal connection to nature and how it has influenced his work on the series, offering a comprehensive look into the making of this docuseries and the broader implications for sustainable agriculture.
Discover the importance of building relationships in agriculture and the critical role of soil health in combating climate change. We discuss the challenges of collaborating with a diverse team of scientists, each with unique perspectives and approaches, while celebrating the joys and complexities of forming friendships across different sectors. From the challenging climate of Phoenix to the contrasting environment of northeast Oklahoma, the conversation highlights the impact of environment on lifestyle and sustainability practices. Through these discussions, a commitment to leaving a better planet for future generations shines through, even while acknowledging the limitations and contradictions in our current lifestyles.
Peter and I also delve into adaptive multi-paddock (AMP) grazing and its comparison with conventional grazing practices. Listen in as we discuss how AMP grazing mimics the natural movements of bison on the Great Plains, promoting healthier soil and better water infiltration amidst climate extremes. The conversation extends to the global promotion of regenerative farming practices, emphasizing farmer-to-farmer and scientist-to-farmer dialogues. From using drones in farm management to offering advice for newcomers in filmmaking and agriculture, the episode is rich with resources and inspiration for those passionate about sustainable farming practices. Don't miss out on the invaluable insights and stories shared by Peter and our exploration of the future of farming.
Links Mentioned in the Episode
Roots So Deep
Carbon Cowboys
Soil Health Academy
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Original Music by Louis Palfrey
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00:00:02 --> 00:00:07 Cal: On today's episode, we have Peter Bick, the producer and director of roots.
00:00:07 --> 00:00:08 So deep docu series.
00:00:09 --> 00:00:10 First off.
00:00:10 --> 00:00:12 If you haven't seen it, you should go watch it.
00:00:13 --> 00:00:15 You should also listen to our conversation about it today.
00:00:16 --> 00:00:19 We talked about what brought him to this docu series.
00:00:20 --> 00:00:22 Some surprising findings from it.
00:00:23 --> 00:00:25 And what to do next.
00:00:26 --> 00:00:28 So let's get started with the fast five.
00:00:29 --> 00:00:30 What's your name?
00:00:30 --> 00:00:31 Peter: My name is Peter Byck.
00:00:32 --> 00:00:34 Cal: And Peter, what's the name of your documentary?
00:00:35 --> 00:00:38 Peter: The docu series is called Roots So Deep, you can see the devil down there.
00:00:39 --> 00:00:41 And it's available at rootssodeep.
00:00:42 --> 00:00:44 org for anyone to go on our site and rent it right now.
00:00:45 --> 00:00:46 Cal: Oh, very good.
00:00:47 --> 00:00:49 When did you start making the docu series?
00:00:50 --> 00:00:54 Peter: Well, the team, this docuseries is about a science project really,
00:00:54 --> 00:00:57 ended up being much more about the farmers, but the science is at the
00:00:57 --> 00:00:59 core and it is a science project.
00:00:59 --> 00:01:03 The science team got together for the first time at the beginning of 2014.
00:01:04 --> 00:01:08 And so that's when we started putting the team together, designing
00:01:08 --> 00:01:09 it, fundraising for the science.
00:01:10 --> 00:01:16 And then in 2018, we started filming we, we scouted in 2017 to find all the farms
00:01:17 --> 00:01:17 in the Southeast U.
00:01:17 --> 00:01:18 S.
00:01:18 --> 00:01:22 And we finished filming in 2022.
00:01:22 --> 00:01:25 Some of the science continues, but we had enough preliminary
00:01:25 --> 00:01:27 data to, to share it in the movie.
00:01:28 --> 00:01:29 And so it's ongoing.
00:01:30 --> 00:01:30 Cal: Oh, very good.
00:01:31 --> 00:01:33 And where are the farms located for the docuseries?
00:01:33 --> 00:01:35 Peter: The farms are in the Southeast U.
00:01:35 --> 00:01:36 S.
00:01:36 --> 00:01:39 There's one farm in Adolphus in Scottsville, Kentucky.
00:01:39 --> 00:01:40 It's farm pairs, right.
00:01:41 --> 00:01:45 And so that's about 45 minutes northeast of Nashville.
00:01:45 --> 00:01:49 Then we have a farm pair in Tennessee and Jasper and Sequatchie Cove, which
00:01:49 --> 00:01:53 is about 45 minutes west of Chattanooga.
00:01:53 --> 00:01:55 And then you go down to Fort Payne, Alabama.
00:01:56 --> 00:02:00 That's Fort Payne, and then down in the Piedmont Jacksonville area,
00:02:00 --> 00:02:03 there's another farm pair, and then Woodville, Mississippi is our fifth farm
00:02:03 --> 00:02:04 Cal: Oh, very good.
00:02:04 --> 00:02:05 Excellent.
00:02:05 --> 00:02:08 Peter: which is about an hour north of Baton Rouge.
00:02:08 --> 00:02:09 Cal: Oh, okay.
00:02:09 --> 00:02:09 Okay.
00:02:10 --> 00:02:11 Yeah, if you're not familiar with the area,
00:02:11 --> 00:02:12 that helps out a lot.
00:02:13 --> 00:02:15 Peter: Try to give everyone some spots there.
00:02:15 --> 00:02:18 So the, the Alabama farms are sort of in the northeast chunk,
00:02:19 --> 00:02:23 about, Fort Payne's an hour south of Chattanooga, and Piedmont,
00:02:23 --> 00:02:25 Jacksonville's two hours south of
00:02:25 --> 00:02:26 Cal: Oh, okay.
00:02:26 --> 00:02:26 Very good.
00:02:26 --> 00:02:28 Welcome to the grazing grass podcast.
00:02:28 --> 00:02:32 The podcast dedicated to sharing the stories of grass-based
00:02:32 --> 00:02:36 livestock producers, exploring regenerative practices that improve
00:02:36 --> 00:02:38 the land animals and our lives.
00:02:38 --> 00:02:43 I'm your host, Cal Hardage and each week we'll dive into the journeys,
00:02:43 --> 00:02:47 challenges, and successes of producers like you, learning from
00:02:47 --> 00:02:53 their experiences, and inspiring each other to grow, and graze better.
00:02:54 --> 00:02:57 Whether you're a seasoned grazier or just getting started.
00:02:58 --> 00:02:59 This is the place for you.
00:03:00 --> 00:03:01 Attention ranchers!
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00:04:19 --> 00:04:24 Invest in your land, livestock, and livelihood this January.
00:04:25 --> 00:04:26 10 seconds about the farm.
00:04:27 --> 00:04:29 I finally got rams turned out.
00:04:29 --> 00:04:30 Yes.
00:04:30 --> 00:04:35 I'm a little later than I planned to be by about a week, but we got them turned out.
00:04:35 --> 00:04:38 So we're looking at may lambing for the sheep.
00:04:39 --> 00:04:40 Progress is progress.
00:04:40 --> 00:04:42 No matter how small.
00:04:42 --> 00:04:46 For 10 seconds about the podcast have two things today at first.
00:04:47 --> 00:04:49 The drive to 300 downloads.
00:04:50 --> 00:04:53 Share this episode with someone, tell someone about the podcast greatly.
00:04:53 --> 00:04:54 Appreciate it.
00:04:54 --> 00:05:00 Would love to end the year with 300 downloads for life of the podcast.
00:05:01 --> 00:05:07 And secondly, The hardest part about the podcast, producing it, getting
00:05:07 --> 00:05:09 it together, getting it to you.
00:05:09 --> 00:05:10 Is volume.
00:05:12 --> 00:05:17 I checked volume levels numerous times through to progress or process.
00:05:18 --> 00:05:19 I'm listening in.
00:05:20 --> 00:05:22 I'm listening to it in my ear.
00:05:23 --> 00:05:24 And I think it sounds good.
00:05:24 --> 00:05:30 And then I go listen to it in a vehicle or something and there's some variation.
00:05:30 --> 00:05:34 I would love to get any feedback you have on the volumes.
00:05:34 --> 00:05:35 Are they good?
00:05:36 --> 00:05:38 Is overall it's too soft, too loud.
00:05:39 --> 00:05:43 Or is there too much variation between the sections?
00:05:43 --> 00:05:48 I know I go over it a ton of times, but that doesn't mean it just.
00:05:48 --> 00:05:51 It just sounds different when it's not in my ear so.
00:05:51 --> 00:05:54 Um, let me know what you think about the volume.
00:05:55 --> 00:06:00 Cal: So Peter, making this was a huge undertaking, but why?
00:06:00 --> 00:06:05 How did you end up wanting to make this docuseries?
00:06:05 --> 00:06:07 Peter: and regenerative grazing and
00:06:07 --> 00:06:09 Cal: Yes, how'd you end up there?
00:06:09 --> 00:06:09 I
00:06:10 --> 00:06:13 Peter: So I've always been someone who loved nature.
00:06:13 --> 00:06:16 My dad, my mom, we did a lot of hiking when I was a kid.
00:06:16 --> 00:06:18 If I ever littered, it was a big deal.
00:06:18 --> 00:06:21 And, and actually we picked up other people's litter.
00:06:22 --> 00:06:24 We always left it better than, than we found it and that was
00:06:24 --> 00:06:26 just the way I was raised.
00:06:26 --> 00:06:27 And.
00:06:28 --> 00:06:31 So all my life I've felt like that and like getting to Sequoia National
00:06:32 --> 00:06:36 Park and Yosemite and, and just being in nature is always my happiest place
00:06:36 --> 00:06:38 and I don't get it nearly enough.
00:06:39 --> 00:06:41 And, and I made a movie.
00:06:41 --> 00:06:43 My first documentary features a film called Garbage, which is about
00:06:43 --> 00:06:45 garbage problems all across the U.
00:06:45 --> 00:06:46 S.
00:06:46 --> 00:06:47 Cal: Oh, yes.
00:06:47 --> 00:06:51 Peter: and then my second documentary features a film called Carbon Nation,
00:06:52 --> 00:06:58 and that was, My response, my team's response to an inconvenient truth,
00:06:58 --> 00:07:00 like, okay, there's climate change.
00:07:00 --> 00:07:02 I didn't really know about climate change.
00:07:02 --> 00:07:05 So my first thought was, is it solvable?
00:07:05 --> 00:07:06 Can we fix it?
00:07:06 --> 00:07:07 What's going on?
00:07:07 --> 00:07:11 And I know people debate whether climate change is real or not, but we wanted
00:07:11 --> 00:07:15 to show a film that wasn't a bitch and moan film, but it was solutions film.
00:07:15 --> 00:07:15 Cal: Oh,
00:07:15 --> 00:07:19 Peter: And so in that film, we realized there's just so many
00:07:19 --> 00:07:21 solutions that work, whether you.
00:07:21 --> 00:07:23 Are worried about climate change or not.
00:07:23 --> 00:07:26 It's just a simple fact of you want a cold beer?
00:07:26 --> 00:07:26 Yes.
00:07:27 --> 00:07:28 Do you want to give a kid asthma?
00:07:29 --> 00:07:30 Getting your beer cold?
00:07:30 --> 00:07:30 No.
00:07:31 --> 00:07:31 Cal: Oh, you're
00:07:32 --> 00:07:33 Peter: and do you like clean air and clean water?
00:07:34 --> 00:07:34 Yes.
00:07:34 --> 00:07:41 And so we really found the common ground amongst, The various parts of that debate,
00:07:41 --> 00:07:44 and we were able to show people that, Hey, you don't have to be worried about
00:07:44 --> 00:07:48 climate change, but isn't it cool that you can power your house with the sun?
00:07:49 --> 00:07:53 And isn't it cool that you can lose use less energy and still have the
00:07:53 --> 00:07:54 same performance of whatever it is.
00:07:55 --> 00:07:58 Refrigerators are much more efficient now than they used to be.
00:07:58 --> 00:07:58 TVs,
00:07:58 --> 00:08:03 things like that in the making of that movie is when I discovered soils
00:08:03 --> 00:08:09 as a solution to a lot of things and a problem for climate change
00:08:09 --> 00:08:10 and a problem for a lot of things.
00:08:10 --> 00:08:12 When you treat the soils well, it's a solution.
00:08:12 --> 00:08:14 When you treat the soils poorly, it's a problem.
00:08:15 --> 00:08:21 And so when Carbon Nation was done, and we had been on the road for three years,
00:08:21 --> 00:08:27 I started focusing in on the soils and I quickly found that grazing, adaptive
00:08:27 --> 00:08:31 multi paddock grazing, convent, you know, rotational, some people call it, but you
00:08:31 --> 00:08:33 got to be specific about the rotation.
00:08:33 --> 00:08:33 Cal: right.
00:08:34 --> 00:08:37 Peter: mob grazing is what a good friend of mine calls it.
00:08:37 --> 00:08:39 Neil Dennis called it because he's, he's gone.
00:08:40 --> 00:08:42 And I realized, wow, there's something here.
00:08:42 --> 00:08:46 And so I was fortunate enough to meet Alan Williams.
00:08:47 --> 00:08:50 On the phone and I said, Hey, I want to make this film.
00:08:50 --> 00:08:54 That's going to inspire McDonald's and Walmart to, to
00:08:54 --> 00:08:56 buy meat from folks growing it,
00:08:56 --> 00:08:57 like you're growing it.
00:08:57 --> 00:08:58 That's my point.
00:08:58 --> 00:08:59 That's my purpose.
00:08:59 --> 00:09:03 That was the end of 2012 and I filmed Alan in the spring of 2013.
00:09:04 --> 00:09:07 And then he said, well, if you film me, you got to film Gabe Brown.
00:09:07 --> 00:09:07 So I called Gabe
00:09:07 --> 00:09:09 Brown, come on up.
00:09:09 --> 00:09:13 And if you're going to film me, you got to feel film Neil Dennis up in Saskatchewan
00:09:13 --> 00:09:15 and Wawona and Gabes and Bismarck.
00:09:15 --> 00:09:18 So by August of that year, I'd filmed the three of them.
00:09:19 --> 00:09:22 And then by December of that year, we were premiering that short film in,
00:09:22 --> 00:09:25 in, in actually in Johannesburg for a
00:09:25 --> 00:09:26 Cal: Oh, yes.
00:09:26 --> 00:09:28 Peter: and that film is called Soil Carbon Cowboys.
00:09:28 --> 00:09:29 It's a 12 minute film.
00:09:30 --> 00:09:33 It was astoundingly hard to make and I don't know.
00:09:33 --> 00:09:35 I just remember when we were making it.
00:09:36 --> 00:09:38 Don't forget how hard this film is to make.
00:09:38 --> 00:09:44 And that short film led to a 10 million research project.
00:09:45 --> 00:09:46 No question.
00:09:47 --> 00:09:52 And, and that short film led to nine more short films about AMP grazing in different
00:09:52 --> 00:09:54 regions, different ecosystems.
00:09:54 --> 00:09:58 And so while I was working with the science team to develop and
00:09:58 --> 00:10:00 then fundraise for the science.
00:10:00 --> 00:10:06 From 2014 to 2018, we made 10 short films, the last one being we filmed in
00:10:06 --> 00:10:11 the end of April in 2018, and then we were filming Roots So Deep in May of 2018.
00:10:11 --> 00:10:17 So it's very much a, a, line and just seeing farmers succeed.
00:10:18 --> 00:10:23 In the most trying circumstances, just by the way they were grazing their animals,
00:10:23 --> 00:10:28 as opposed to their neighbors, it was so fascinating and so inspiring.
00:10:29 --> 00:10:33 And that's why we were working on the science, because there was no science
00:10:33 --> 00:10:35 studying all the pieces of that puzzle.
00:10:36 --> 00:10:43 Nature is vastly multifaceted, but we as a team said, well, let's study the soil
00:10:43 --> 00:10:49 carbon, soil nitrogen, water infiltration, the plants, are they nutrient dense?
00:10:49 --> 00:10:51 Are they covering a lot of the soil or not?
00:10:52 --> 00:10:57 Birds, bugs, microbes, greenhouse gas cycling, animal
00:10:57 --> 00:10:58 well being, farmer well being.
00:10:58 --> 00:11:03 So we cooked it down to those metrics and beautiful science
00:11:03 --> 00:11:04 team came together for this.
00:11:05 --> 00:11:09 And, and so that's what we decided to measure on both sides of the fence, the
00:11:09 --> 00:11:16 adaptive side, and the conventional side and we were able to, well, the adaptive
00:11:16 --> 00:11:17 farmers couldn't wait for science.
00:11:17 --> 00:11:19 They were chomping at the bit.
00:11:19 --> 00:11:24 I can say they were as impatient as me in getting results and the
00:11:24 --> 00:11:30 conventional farmers, you know, we're naturally wondering what
00:11:30 --> 00:11:31 is it you're trying to do here?
00:11:31 --> 00:11:34 Are you trying to show us in a bad light?
00:11:34 --> 00:11:35 Are you trying to
00:11:35 --> 00:11:37 show that we're doing something wrong?
00:11:37 --> 00:11:42 And we were very, it was very easy for us to, to just say to the farmers on the
00:11:42 --> 00:11:44 conventional side, there is no wrong.
00:11:45 --> 00:11:49 We truly believe that we know you love your land.
00:11:50 --> 00:11:53 We know that every farmer I've ever met loves their land.
00:11:53 --> 00:11:53 Cal: Right,
00:11:53 --> 00:11:56 Peter: It's just, we think we found a method.
00:11:57 --> 00:12:01 Of grazing your animals that'll cost you less be more enjoyable
00:12:01 --> 00:12:05 and increase your profit per acre and possibly remove your debt.
00:12:05 --> 00:12:08 That's the stories we found with the short films that we were making, which
00:12:08 --> 00:12:13 is the whole Carbon Cowboys series, which if you go to YouTube and type in Carbon
00:12:13 --> 00:12:15 Cowboys, you can see all 10 of those
00:12:15 --> 00:12:15 Cal: Oh
00:12:15 --> 00:12:16 Peter: short films.
00:12:17 --> 00:12:21 And all the conventional farmers said, yes, they, they felt that that was a
00:12:21 --> 00:12:23 reasonable thing to participate in.
00:12:23 --> 00:12:28 And so we had all these scientists on both sides of the fence for some of
00:12:28 --> 00:12:30 the science took two or three years.
00:12:30 --> 00:12:34 And, and we filmed everything and we filmed everything
00:12:36 --> 00:12:40 Cal: How many scientists, how many people did you have involved in this project?
00:12:40 --> 00:12:44 Because I know from watching it, there's a, it's a ton of people.
00:12:44 --> 00:12:44 Peter: yet.
00:12:45 --> 00:12:49 Not even all the scientists made it into the movie, actually into the docuseries.
00:12:49 --> 00:12:54 We had more than 20 scientists from seven universities three private
00:12:54 --> 00:12:57 research entities and the USDA
00:12:58 --> 00:12:58 Cal: Oh wow.
00:12:59 --> 00:13:01 Peter: and so it was a big team.
00:13:01 --> 00:13:04 It was a lot of scientists.
00:13:04 --> 00:13:09 So that's, I think it was 10 research entities, 10 farms, 10
00:13:09 --> 00:13:12 different funders, 10 million.
00:13:13 --> 00:13:16 And so it was good that I have all my fingers cause I
00:13:16 --> 00:13:17 could count all that stuff.
00:13:17 --> 00:13:17 Right,
00:13:17 --> 00:13:18 Cal: Right,
00:13:18 --> 00:13:22 Peter: and, and, and and it was enormous amount of work, hardest thing I've ever
00:13:23 --> 00:13:26 done, most rewarding thing I've ever done.
00:13:26 --> 00:13:29 And that's just from my point of view,
00:13:29 --> 00:13:30 everybody worked on it
00:13:30 --> 00:13:33 had their challenges, had their complications.
00:13:34 --> 00:13:39 And I know some of the scientists would say it was very valuable for them.
00:13:39 --> 00:13:39 I don't know
00:13:39 --> 00:13:40 if all of them felt that way
00:13:40 --> 00:13:41 at the end of the day.
00:13:42 --> 00:13:45 But I know all the farmers still return my emails and calls.
00:13:45 --> 00:13:46 Cal: Oh well, well good.
00:13:46 --> 00:13:47 that's, that's good.
00:13:47 --> 00:13:49 Peter: to me, that's huge.
00:13:49 --> 00:13:50 Cal: Yeah, that's
00:13:50 --> 00:13:54 Peter: And I personally, I feel like I made a lot of friends on the farming side.
00:13:55 --> 00:13:55 Cal: Oh yeah.
00:13:55 --> 00:14:01 Peter: And, and you know, for the science team, I made a lot of friends
00:14:01 --> 00:14:05 and a few folks, you know, we probably realized, Hey, you know, this was good.
00:14:05 --> 00:14:10 We did good work, but maybe that we, maybe they want to work with me again.
00:14:10 --> 00:14:11 Or, you know, that kind of thing.
00:14:12 --> 00:14:15 Cal: Yeah, well everyone's got their own personality
00:14:15 --> 00:14:16 Peter: It's hard, man.
00:14:16 --> 00:14:16 It's hard.
00:14:16 --> 00:14:17 It's hard to, it's.
00:14:18 --> 00:14:19 It's hard to wrangle that big a team.
00:14:20 --> 00:14:25 And, you know, and scientists are trained to be skeptical, trained to
00:14:25 --> 00:14:30 be free thinkers, I think trained to certainly the ones on our team.
00:14:30 --> 00:14:36 And, and therefore they, they, they're not easily put into a box or anything, which
00:14:36 --> 00:14:41 we didn't do in our study, but that leaves a lot of folks who, who might want to sort
00:14:41 --> 00:14:43 of go it alone, as opposed to teammate,
00:14:44 --> 00:14:45 then a number.
00:14:45 --> 00:14:48 So we had a couple of soloists and we had a lot of team, team members,
00:14:49 --> 00:14:51 Cal: I Want to jump back just a little bit.
00:14:52 --> 00:14:56 We started this conversation and you're you're talking about filmmaking and now
00:14:57 --> 00:15:03 you're into the science part What what's your true love in their true passion
00:15:04 --> 00:15:12 Peter: Soil health and, and how it, how it is, that's, that's, our why, you know,
00:15:12 --> 00:15:12 soil health.
00:15:13 --> 00:15:19 Is, is the reason why, and I thought I was looking for a solution for climate
00:15:19 --> 00:15:20 change I thought that was my why,
00:15:21 --> 00:15:22 Cal: Oh Yes.
00:15:22 --> 00:15:25 Peter: but then soil health sort of superseded that because our soils are
00:15:25 --> 00:15:33 in such bad shape around the world and by healing our soils, we enable
00:15:33 --> 00:15:39 farmers to get out of debt, create healthy food make the land much more
00:15:39 --> 00:15:41 resilient to floods and droughts.
00:15:41 --> 00:15:48 And it is a powerful solution to climate change when enough farmers
00:15:48 --> 00:15:51 choose to adopt regenerative practices.
00:15:51 --> 00:15:56 It's not a solution globally until it's a global practice, Right.
00:15:56 --> 00:16:01 But our research shows that, that farmers can be a greenhouse
00:16:01 --> 00:16:06 gas sink while they're creating wildlife habitat, making more money.
00:16:06 --> 00:16:11 Making us healthier, enjoying themselves more, and bringing their communities,
00:16:11 --> 00:16:13 their royal communities, back to life.
00:16:13 --> 00:16:17 There's, there's so many positives to, to folks working with nature.
00:16:18 --> 00:16:22 And so that's, that's what drives me day in and day out.
00:16:22 --> 00:16:29 Of course, I'm a dad, and so do I leave the planet better or worse for my boys?
00:16:29 --> 00:16:37 You know, I'm working hard to leave it better and that doesn't mean we'll
00:16:37 --> 00:16:42 achieve it It doesn't mean we'll succeed all the way across but I feel better
00:16:42 --> 00:16:51 trying rather than not trying I am I if I'm in action, I'm much more happy and
00:16:51 --> 00:16:51 Cal: Oh, yeah
00:16:52 --> 00:16:54 Peter: When I'm not in action, I'm not that happy.
00:16:55 --> 00:16:59 Cal: So talking about the soil health and what you got from the docuseries,
00:16:59 --> 00:17:03 and we'll dive deeper into that docuseries, But did that change
00:17:03 --> 00:17:07 your practices for your yard around your house and what you do locally?
00:17:08 --> 00:17:14 Peter: Cal, I am, I am such a poor example of, of treating the
00:17:14 --> 00:17:16 land well on my own property.
00:17:16 --> 00:17:22 I live in Phoenix and trying to keep a yard here is incredibly
00:17:22 --> 00:17:23 challenging.
00:17:23 --> 00:17:25 Cal: well Phoenix's is its own challenge.
00:17:25 --> 00:17:26 So
00:17:26 --> 00:17:26 yeah.
00:17:27 --> 00:17:29 Peter: why is this the fastest growing city in the United States when we
00:17:29 --> 00:17:31 have such a water limitation here?
00:17:31 --> 00:17:32 I do not know.
00:17:32 --> 00:17:37 I'm certainly in Phoenix because I have an incredible job at Arizona State University
00:17:37 --> 00:17:39 that's enabled me to do all this work,
00:17:39 --> 00:17:40 full stop.
00:17:41 --> 00:17:42 I am from Kentucky.
00:17:42 --> 00:17:43 I miss the trees.
00:17:43 --> 00:17:44 I miss the seasons.
00:17:45 --> 00:17:46 And so that's just, that's just my.
00:17:47 --> 00:17:48 That's just how it is right now.
00:17:49 --> 00:17:52 And I travel so much and I try to be away from Phoenix for the two months
00:17:52 --> 00:17:54 my boys aren't in school in the summer.
00:17:55 --> 00:17:57 It's kind of hard to even be a good gardener, but
00:17:58 --> 00:17:58 Cal: Oh, yeah.
00:17:58 --> 00:18:03 Peter: I do dream of being a bit more settled back in Kentucky,
00:18:04 --> 00:18:06 where I can, I can do stuff.
00:18:06 --> 00:18:12 Now, that said, that said, I have a part of my yard that never really seeds well
00:18:12 --> 00:18:14 with grass and I just sort of let it go.
00:18:15 --> 00:18:15 Cal: Oh, yes
00:18:15 --> 00:18:17 Peter: whole lot of plants growing in there.
00:18:17 --> 00:18:19 And so I let that happen.
00:18:19 --> 00:18:23 We planted trees because that's a cooling function.
00:18:24 --> 00:18:26 And so those are the only things I've done here, man.
00:18:26 --> 00:18:31 It's, you know, I have solar panels and I have electric cars, so I'm
00:18:31 --> 00:18:33 using photons to drive around.
00:18:33 --> 00:18:35 So that's taking advantage of what Phoenix has to offer.
00:18:35 --> 00:18:36 Cal: Oh, yes, it
00:18:36 --> 00:18:41 Peter: Our house has some energy efficiency, some insulation that we
00:18:41 --> 00:18:44 put in, but I need to do it around the windows and the doors more.
00:18:45 --> 00:18:49 But having solar energy is great because then I do all my laundry in the daytime.
00:18:49 --> 00:18:53 So my dryer is going in the daytime and we use appliances in the daytime.
00:18:54 --> 00:18:58 And so that makes me feel better, but I fly, I
00:18:58 --> 00:18:58 Cal: Oh,
00:18:58 --> 00:18:59 Peter: the place.
00:18:59 --> 00:19:02 So my, my carbon footprint's off the charts.
00:19:02 --> 00:19:06 And so I am in no way, shape or form a a preacher on this stuff.
00:19:06 --> 00:19:11 I'm a, I'm a consumer of fossil fuels at a great amount.
00:19:12 --> 00:19:13 And it's just the way it is right now.
00:19:14 --> 00:19:15 I have friends that work at Boeing.
00:19:15 --> 00:19:17 They're working on fuel cell planes.
00:19:17 --> 00:19:17 They're
00:19:17 --> 00:19:18 Cal: Oh, yes,
00:19:18 --> 00:19:18 Peter: planes.
00:19:19 --> 00:19:20 That'll be cool.
00:19:20 --> 00:19:21 Cal: that will be.
00:19:21 --> 00:19:27 And, you know, you're really in a difficult environment there, even beyond
00:19:27 --> 00:19:29 your travel and other obligations.
00:19:29 --> 00:19:34 I can remember the first time I went to Phoenix, I was just shocked as we flew
00:19:34 --> 00:19:37 down, I'm looking out of the airplane, and I'm like, where's the grass?
00:19:38 --> 00:19:42 Northeast Oklahoma to Phoenix is a lot different, so, yeah.
00:19:43 --> 00:19:46 Peter: Yeah, so northeast Oklahoma, you get, what, about 35 inches of rain a
00:19:46 --> 00:19:47 year there.
00:19:48 --> 00:19:48 So
00:19:48 --> 00:19:49 that, you can do a lot with that.
00:19:49 --> 00:19:50 Cal: Oh, yes.
00:19:50 --> 00:19:55 And in fact, we've had 12 inches this month, which is not normal.
00:19:55 --> 00:19:56 It's a record month, but
00:19:56 --> 00:19:59 Peter: But if you get healthy soils, you'll absorb all that water.
00:20:00 --> 00:20:02 And that's another thing about soil health, is how much it's,
00:20:02 --> 00:20:06 how it enables you to get all the rain to stay on your farm, or if
00:20:06 --> 00:20:08 it goes off your farm, it's clean.
00:20:09 --> 00:20:12 And it's not a, it's not another way of polluting our waterways
00:20:12 --> 00:20:13 and killing the Gulf and all those
00:20:13 --> 00:20:14 Cal: Oh yeah.
00:20:14 --> 00:20:14 Yeah.
00:20:16 --> 00:20:21 Well, let's, let's dive deeper into Roots So Deep our overgrazing
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00:21:19 --> 00:21:19 com
00:21:20 --> 00:21:23 where we take a topic and we go deeper into it.
00:21:23 --> 00:21:24 So, Roots So Deep.
00:21:24 --> 00:21:29 We've already talked about a few things about that, but one thing
00:21:29 --> 00:21:33 you mentioned you mentioned adaptive multi paddock grazing.
00:21:33 --> 00:21:38 And I know this is, is readily apparent to most of my listeners, but
00:21:38 --> 00:21:42 in case someone's new here what's the difference between adaptive multi padded
00:21:42 --> 00:21:45 grazing and what you normally see?
00:21:46 --> 00:21:50 Peter: so adaptive multi paddock grazing is, is a, is a method of
00:21:50 --> 00:21:54 grazing that emulates the way the bison wrote roamed across the Great Plains.
00:21:55 --> 00:21:59 And of course, the bison and the grasslands and the beaver and the prairie
00:21:59 --> 00:22:03 dogs created an amazingly gorgeous and the humans that were here too.
00:22:03 --> 00:22:07 It was all, everyone was all interacting to create 10 to 12
00:22:07 --> 00:22:09 foot deep, 15 foot deep topsoils.
00:22:09 --> 00:22:11 It's just an amazing system of, of health.
00:22:12 --> 00:22:17 And so the animals go in a herd and they're on a piece of land long
00:22:17 --> 00:22:18 enough to eat about half of it.
00:22:19 --> 00:22:22 And then they move on because the food's better over there
00:22:22 --> 00:22:24 or there's wolves chasing them.
00:22:24 --> 00:22:25 They stomp the rest.
00:22:26 --> 00:22:28 Their urine and their manure has been evenly spread over
00:22:28 --> 00:22:30 that area that they've been on.
00:22:30 --> 00:22:31 And then they leave.
00:22:32 --> 00:22:36 And so all those plants that have been half munched cannot wait to grow
00:22:36 --> 00:22:41 back, thus shooting roots even deeper down as they're growing up, completely
00:22:41 --> 00:22:46 fertilized, and they're just sucking down enormous amounts of CO2, burping
00:22:46 --> 00:22:50 out the oxygen for most of us to breathe, and then sending carbon down
00:22:50 --> 00:22:52 into the whole microbial community.
00:22:52 --> 00:22:56 And that microbial community, they're the real grazers, they're the engine.
00:22:57 --> 00:22:59 And every farmer I know that works in a regenerative.
00:23:00 --> 00:23:05 fashion will focus on the microbes and then everything else follows.
00:23:06 --> 00:23:11 And the more plants you have, the more diverse the microbial community and the
00:23:11 --> 00:23:14 more diverse the microbial community, the more protected the plants are from
00:23:14 --> 00:23:17 pathogens, the more the carbon cycles.
00:23:18 --> 00:23:20 And then what's really cool was really cool.
00:23:20 --> 00:23:25 Is the more microbes you have, because you have more plants growing and
00:23:25 --> 00:23:29 the more plants growing or putting more carbon into the system and more
00:23:29 --> 00:23:34 microbes are forming literally the populations exploding those microbes
00:23:34 --> 00:23:42 die and then they, they become part of a good spongy, healthy soil texture.
00:23:42 --> 00:23:44 And volume.
00:23:44 --> 00:23:47 So those dying microbes actually become soil.
00:23:48 --> 00:23:50 And so they're building the soil back up,
00:23:51 --> 00:23:52 these farmers.
00:23:52 --> 00:23:59 And, and, and all of that entails with porous soil, water infiltration, soil
00:23:59 --> 00:24:01 holding on to water in the drought times.
00:24:01 --> 00:24:03 And we're getting spikes of both.
00:24:03 --> 00:24:04 I talked to a
00:24:04 --> 00:24:07 farmer the other day who was in drought and flood in the same week.
00:24:08 --> 00:24:09 Cal: Oh, yeah.
00:24:09 --> 00:24:15 Well, we, we just had a real, a flash fast drought or flash drought.
00:24:16 --> 00:24:20 July 4th, it stopped raining and we didn't get rain till November.
00:24:20 --> 00:24:25 And now it started raining and we're 150 percent of our normal amount for November.
00:24:25 --> 00:24:29 So it's kind of crazy with that this year.
00:24:29 --> 00:24:30 Peter: So those spikes that
00:24:30 --> 00:24:35 are happening more and more healthy soil sort of levels off the spikes
00:24:35 --> 00:24:38 for the farmers and gives, gives the farmers more resilience.
00:24:38 --> 00:24:42 And also for us downstream, it helps reduce the flooding impact.
00:24:43 --> 00:24:47 And it also, it also helps provide us with healthier food.
00:24:48 --> 00:24:51 And so, AMP grazing is a method to get all that going.
00:24:52 --> 00:24:55 Conventional grazing is where folks are letting their animals roam in a
00:24:55 --> 00:24:58 large area, not in small paddocks.
00:24:58 --> 00:25:02 The people are building with their polywire electric fence, but in large
00:25:02 --> 00:25:06 areas, and instead of letting the animals stay in that area for a day
00:25:06 --> 00:25:10 or move their animals twice or three times a day, I was in South Africa.
00:25:10 --> 00:25:11 They were moving their animals 10 times a
00:25:12 --> 00:25:12 Cal: Oh, wow.
00:25:13 --> 00:25:17 Peter: a very semi arid area and it was working really well for them.
00:25:17 --> 00:25:18 It blew my mind.
00:25:19 --> 00:25:22 So they're moving a lot, letting the land rest most of the time.
00:25:22 --> 00:25:23 That's the game.
00:25:23 --> 00:25:25 That's what AMP grazing is about.
00:25:25 --> 00:25:29 Conventional grazing, the area is large that the animals are grazing.
00:25:30 --> 00:25:32 And they're grazing it down pretty short.
00:25:33 --> 00:25:37 Therefore, the roots are pretty, pretty low, not very long.
00:25:38 --> 00:25:39 Therefore, the carbon's not going deep.
00:25:39 --> 00:25:41 Therefore, the water's not infiltrating very
00:25:41 --> 00:25:41 deep.
00:25:41 --> 00:25:45 So the soils are getting hard and the animals are sort of overeating
00:25:45 --> 00:25:48 the things they like and not eating the things they don't like.
00:25:49 --> 00:25:53 And the cowpats aren't recycling quickly like they do on a NAMP farm
00:25:53 --> 00:25:57 because of all that microbial activity and bug activity that's there.
00:25:57 --> 00:26:02 So every cowpat that doesn't recycled quickly becomes a part of your farm that
00:26:02 --> 00:26:04 can't grow grass and the animals avoid it.
00:26:04 --> 00:26:05 Then all the stuff the
00:26:05 --> 00:26:06 animals don't like grows up around it.
00:26:06 --> 00:26:10 You've got these little patches of lost farm.
00:26:10 --> 00:26:15 And so that's, that's the system that happens in a compounding
00:26:15 --> 00:26:16 way on the conventional side.
00:26:17 --> 00:26:22 And, no, we've met very, very good conventional farmers in our study,
00:26:22 --> 00:26:24 very good conventional farmers.
00:26:24 --> 00:26:27 But what we discovered was they could be even better.
00:26:28 --> 00:26:28 Cal: Oh, yeah.
00:26:29 --> 00:26:29 Peter: And
00:26:29 --> 00:26:30 so, yeah,
00:26:31 --> 00:26:34 Cal: with your, your amp grazing and conventional grazing, was
00:26:34 --> 00:26:39 that the main variable in the two farms as they were pairs?
00:26:39 --> 00:26:42 Peter: that was the variable, how they're managing their animals.
00:26:43 --> 00:26:45 We spent a lot of time scouting the farms.
00:26:45 --> 00:26:49 We spent a lot of time then matching soil types across the fence
00:26:49 --> 00:26:49 Cal: Oh, yeah.
00:26:49 --> 00:26:54 Peter: and then slope and, and, and aspect to the sun and all those things.
00:26:55 --> 00:26:59 In a real world study like this where you're not on a, you know,
00:26:59 --> 00:27:00 a farm that's built to study
00:27:01 --> 00:27:01 one thing at a
00:27:02 --> 00:27:02 Cal: cutter and
00:27:02 --> 00:27:07 Peter: plots and stuff like that, it's messy and all of our scientists
00:27:07 --> 00:27:09 had messy moments where they're like you know, it's frustrating.
00:27:10 --> 00:27:15 But as much as we could, we made it an apples to apples comparison and
00:27:15 --> 00:27:19 in our soil types, we, you know, I do this because the, the graph that
00:27:19 --> 00:27:21 shows are they different or the same?
00:27:21 --> 00:27:23 The graph was just like tight.
00:27:23 --> 00:27:23 Cal: yeah.
00:27:24 --> 00:27:24 Oh, very
00:27:24 --> 00:27:26 Peter: really cool to see that afterwards because that's what we
00:27:26 --> 00:27:30 were aiming for, but you don't know until you go to the lab and check
00:27:30 --> 00:27:31 this stuff out.
00:27:31 --> 00:27:35 But yeah, apples to apples, the farmers needed to have been doing
00:27:35 --> 00:27:36 their method in the Southeast.
00:27:36 --> 00:27:39 We figured with rainfalls being pretty good and long growing
00:27:39 --> 00:27:41 seasons, at least seven years,
00:27:41 --> 00:27:46 one of our, one of our adaptive farmers had been going seven years, but everybody
00:27:46 --> 00:27:48 else was decades on both sides of
00:27:48 --> 00:27:49 Cal: Oh, yeah.
00:27:49 --> 00:27:50 Peter: Decades.
00:27:52 --> 00:27:55 Cal: And you brought in all these scientists and, and You mentioned earlier
00:27:55 --> 00:27:57 all the different things they covered.
00:27:58 --> 00:27:58 Peter: hmm.
00:27:58 --> 00:27:59 Mm hmm.
00:27:59 --> 00:27:59 Mm
00:27:59 --> 00:28:05 Cal: Um, I know from, from watching Roots So Deep, just that initial data gathering,
00:28:05 --> 00:28:12 the thing that surprised me the most was the, um, the grassland birds there.
00:28:13 --> 00:28:21 Was the, the difference in population between a AMP managed farm and
00:28:21 --> 00:28:23 a conventionally managed farm.
00:28:23 --> 00:28:24 I see birds out here.
00:28:24 --> 00:28:28 I see, we have bobwhites, meadowlarks, of course we have keel deer that nest
00:28:28 --> 00:28:35 in the driveway but I see these birds out here and to me I'm, I make the
00:28:35 --> 00:28:37 assumption that's just everywhere,
00:28:38 --> 00:28:41 that people have it, but through the documentary that's the thing that
00:28:41 --> 00:28:45 stuck out, or docu series, that's the thing that stuck out the most to me,
00:28:45 --> 00:28:50 that across the fence line that population varied greatly.
00:28:51 --> 00:28:55 Peter: Three times, just across the fence, three times more grassland birds on the
00:28:55 --> 00:29:01 Amp side than the conventional side and, and we knew we wanted to study birds.
00:29:01 --> 00:29:03 We had people on our team that insisted
00:29:04 --> 00:29:04 Cal: Oh yeah.
00:29:05 --> 00:29:08 Peter: As a matter of fact, Steve Affelbaum and his company, which
00:29:08 --> 00:29:13 he's since sold but Steve insisted that we do the birds and actually
00:29:13 --> 00:29:15 we didn't get funded for the birds.
00:29:15 --> 00:29:16 Like we got
00:29:16 --> 00:29:18 everything, but we didn't get funded for the birds.
00:29:18 --> 00:29:22 And since his company was doing the soil core sampling, the plant
00:29:22 --> 00:29:27 sampling that they kind of made it work to get the birds in there too.
00:29:27 --> 00:29:28 They, they squeezed their budget.
00:29:28 --> 00:29:32 And so that was actually Steve Affelbaum's company paying for the
00:29:32 --> 00:29:34 bird study, out of their own pocket.
00:29:34 --> 00:29:35 They could have pocketed that money
00:29:36 --> 00:29:36 Cal: Oh yeah.
00:29:37 --> 00:29:42 Peter: and thank God they did because the birds in the bobwhite quail
00:29:42 --> 00:29:49 specifically became such a, a, a place of interest for the farmers and
00:29:50 --> 00:29:50 Cal: yeah.
00:29:50 --> 00:29:54 Peter: I just didn't know that, you know, city boy from Louisville.
00:29:54 --> 00:29:56 I didn't know much about bobwhite quail.
00:29:56 --> 00:29:58 I can now hear them and I know they're there.
00:29:59 --> 00:30:05 But I didn't realize, like you said, how different the grazing was, like, so really
00:30:05 --> 00:30:07 it's just, it comes down to, to height.
00:30:08 --> 00:30:08 As much as
00:30:08 --> 00:30:08 anything.
00:30:09 --> 00:30:09 And if you're
00:30:09 --> 00:30:13 letting your forage grow to waist high, then those birds
00:30:13 --> 00:30:15 have a nice place to nest.
00:30:15 --> 00:30:21 And if you're mowing your fields to, to, to bale hay, then you're not providing
00:30:21 --> 00:30:22 that area.
00:30:23 --> 00:30:26 But what was really interesting was we learned our Tennessee pair,
00:30:26 --> 00:30:30 the, the Spangler family who, who were doing conventional grazing
00:30:30 --> 00:30:34 then and cut their own hay and all those things, they hayed late.
00:30:35 --> 00:30:35 And
00:30:35 --> 00:30:40 so they actually provided habitat for those, for those nesting
00:30:40 --> 00:30:47 grassland birds to then, you know, go through that whole part of nesting.
00:30:47 --> 00:30:48 So then the birds could fly off.
00:30:48 --> 00:30:51 So we learned that even if you're doing conventional grazing, if you just
00:30:51 --> 00:30:55 wait a couple of weeks into the end of June or whatever it is in your region,
00:30:56 --> 00:30:57 you'll provide habitat for those.
00:30:57 --> 00:30:59 For those grassland birds.
00:30:59 --> 00:31:02 And like I said, every farmer I've ever met loves their land.
00:31:02 --> 00:31:07 And every farmer I've ever met and they, they want to have wildlife on their land.
00:31:07 --> 00:31:07 They, they
00:31:07 --> 00:31:07 love it.
00:31:08 --> 00:31:08 Cal: yeah.
00:31:08 --> 00:31:09 Yeah.
00:31:10 --> 00:31:13 And for me, that was the thing that really stuck out to me was
00:31:13 --> 00:31:15 the difference in bird populations.
00:31:15 --> 00:31:20 What was, what really stuck out to you or was surprising for you?
00:31:20 --> 00:31:21 Peter: That's one of them.
00:31:21 --> 00:31:22 That's a big one.
00:31:22 --> 00:31:28 The other one that I was told by a lot of people, when we made all those
00:31:28 --> 00:31:31 short films for the carbon cowboy series, I was told that the neighbors
00:31:31 --> 00:31:34 thought the adaptive farmer was crazy.
00:31:35 --> 00:31:35 Cal: Oh,
00:31:35 --> 00:31:36 yeah.
00:31:36 --> 00:31:39 Peter: of judgment across the fence, just, but whispers.
00:31:40 --> 00:31:44 And what we found in our study was, there was a lot of curiosity
00:31:45 --> 00:31:48 from the conventional farmer looking over the fence, seeing
00:31:49 --> 00:31:52 the forage so high, seeing the animals looking good, seeing more
00:31:52 --> 00:31:54 animals than what they've got.
00:31:55 --> 00:31:57 I didn't know there was that curiosity.
00:31:58 --> 00:32:03 And once I learned That there was as I was talking to the farmers as I was filming.
00:32:04 --> 00:32:06 I then said, hey, do you guys want to talk together?
00:32:06 --> 00:32:09 You guys want to ask each other questions the conventional farmer.
00:32:09 --> 00:32:10 Do you want to ask the adaptive farmer anything?
00:32:11 --> 00:32:14 Hey adaptive farmer Do you want to hear from so
00:32:14 --> 00:32:16 like in Woodville, Mississippi?
00:32:16 --> 00:32:20 Wallace Ferguson was curious his parents were curious of what the Hearst's were
00:32:20 --> 00:32:23 doing what Cooper and Katie were doing But they just they didn't want to get
00:32:23 --> 00:32:25 in their business to ask about that.
00:32:25 --> 00:32:26 They were friends
00:32:26 --> 00:32:30 They talked about everything but there was something That they didn't
00:32:30 --> 00:32:31 want to get in their business.
00:32:31 --> 00:32:33 And Cooper and Katie, they're first generation ranchers.
00:32:34 --> 00:32:35 They don't want to brag.
00:32:35 --> 00:32:36 They don't want to be
00:32:36 --> 00:32:37 seen as telling people what to do.
00:32:37 --> 00:32:38 So
00:32:38 --> 00:32:42 there's this, it was actually this sort of very polite way of
00:32:42 --> 00:32:45 treating their neighbors that was preventing conversation about it.
00:32:45 --> 00:32:47 It came from a good place, I think.
00:32:48 --> 00:32:48 So that was
00:32:48 --> 00:32:53 a huge surprise to me, that, that there was that curiosity across the fence.
00:32:53 --> 00:32:56 And we saw that a number of times in the study.
00:32:56 --> 00:32:57 That surprised me.
00:32:58 --> 00:33:03 And I thought that was a huge opportunity, because now that we've done the research,
00:33:03 --> 00:33:07 I can tell you, I know farmers will benefit if they work with nature.
00:33:08 --> 00:33:08 I know
00:33:08 --> 00:33:11 farmers and grazers will benefit if they adopt these methods of
00:33:11 --> 00:33:13 grazing that we're talking about.
00:33:13 --> 00:33:13 I know it.
00:33:14 --> 00:33:19 And so, if the conventional farmer is already kind of curious, if they
00:33:19 --> 00:33:23 have a neighbor that's doing this work, then that's a, that's a way to,
00:33:24 --> 00:33:26 to get folks to be open to change.
00:33:27 --> 00:33:31 Much more than I think everyone was telling me before I started this project.
00:33:32 --> 00:33:32 Cal: Oh, yeah.
00:33:33 --> 00:33:39 Peter: So now I feel like it, it's kind of my responsibility with this knowledge
00:33:39 --> 00:33:41 to share it, and it's not just me.
00:33:41 --> 00:33:43 There's a bunch of people.
00:33:43 --> 00:33:44 Cal: Right.
00:33:44 --> 00:33:49 Peter: Me personally, when you think about what can I do, right, I want to enable
00:33:49 --> 00:33:54 as many farmers as possible to know that this is an option, to know soil health.
00:33:55 --> 00:33:58 can be on their farm to know that they can do these things.
00:33:58 --> 00:34:02 And it's just a lot of farmers aren't taught about their soils.
00:34:02 --> 00:34:06 They're not taught about soil health and it's no fault of theirs.
00:34:07 --> 00:34:08 Now, I don't even want to point a finger at anybody.
00:34:08 --> 00:34:10 It's just here we are.
00:34:10 --> 00:34:11 And guess
00:34:11 --> 00:34:11 what?
00:34:12 --> 00:34:13 Pretty powerful stuff.
00:34:13 --> 00:34:17 If you see if your soils are exposed, how hot they get in the summer
00:34:17 --> 00:34:21 versus the area where you have grass growing on your soils, you know, and
00:34:21 --> 00:34:26 it could be 150 degrees on on bare soil in Oklahoma in the summertime.
00:34:26 --> 00:34:27 I met a guy from Texas.
00:34:27 --> 00:34:28 It was 170
00:34:28 --> 00:34:29 Cal: Oh, yeah.
00:34:30 --> 00:34:35 Well, I just talked to someone a couple of episodes ago, and his tool that
00:34:35 --> 00:34:41 he uses quite a bit on his farm is a Thermometer one of those infrared ones
00:34:41 --> 00:34:45 so he can measure soil temperature and and I'm sitting there thinking
00:34:46 --> 00:34:48 With not that I know everything.
00:34:48 --> 00:34:53 I I barely know a fraction, but I'm thinking why did I never think about that?
00:34:53 --> 00:34:59 That would be great just to have that Observational data to go with the data
00:34:59 --> 00:35:01 on my own place to see what I have.
00:35:01 --> 00:35:01 So
00:35:02 --> 00:35:07 Peter: that's a, that right there, that right there, I think is a, is,
00:35:07 --> 00:35:12 is a way to communicate this stuff cleanly, simply, cheaply, quickly,
00:35:12 --> 00:35:13 Cal: Oh, yeah,
00:35:13 --> 00:35:16 Peter: you know, I mean, that hundred, that soil in the summertime,
00:35:17 --> 00:35:21 wherever you live, the covered soil is going to be 70 to 80 degrees.
00:35:21 --> 00:35:26 Down there and the exposed soil is going to be 100, 110, 120,
00:35:26 --> 00:35:27 Cal: right
00:35:27 --> 00:35:28 Peter: killing all your microbes.
00:35:28 --> 00:35:28 They're
00:35:28 --> 00:35:30 either stopped or they're dead.
00:35:31 --> 00:35:35 And it's, it's like I said before, every farmer I know that's really working
00:35:35 --> 00:35:40 on this regenerative way of growing their, their food, their microbes are
00:35:40 --> 00:35:41 their, are their bread and butter.
00:35:42 --> 00:35:50 Cal: Oh, yeah So just getting that conversation started, going through
00:35:50 --> 00:35:55 this and seeing the curiosity from the conventional and then getting the data
00:35:55 --> 00:36:01 back to, Hey, there's some real benefits to doing this all through the ecosystem.
00:36:01 --> 00:36:04 How do we get that conversation with more farmers?
00:36:04 --> 00:36:06 Peter: I want everyone to watch our film.
00:36:07 --> 00:36:09 I mean, our docu series is that conversation.
00:36:10 --> 00:36:10 It's
00:36:10 --> 00:36:12 farmers talking to farmers.
00:36:12 --> 00:36:13 It's scientists.
00:36:13 --> 00:36:15 showing results to farmers.
00:36:15 --> 00:36:17 It's, it's the game.
00:36:17 --> 00:36:18 It's what we want.
00:36:18 --> 00:36:22 And, you know, I'll have as many one on one conversations
00:36:22 --> 00:36:24 as I can have in my lifetime.
00:36:24 --> 00:36:25 Absolutely.
00:36:26 --> 00:36:31 But when, when a thousand farmers watch our docu series and then we do a Q& A
00:36:31 --> 00:36:34 afterwards, That's bigger numbers, right?
00:36:34 --> 00:36:38 It's, it's, you know, and so when we translate our documentary into
00:36:38 --> 00:36:40 Brazil, to Portuguese, right?
00:36:40 --> 00:36:45 When we translate our documentary into Spanish, which we, we've done,
00:36:45 --> 00:36:49 it's just, we haven't gotten that up running yet in those countries.
00:36:50 --> 00:36:51 Then we can get to a lot of people
00:36:52 --> 00:37:02 and, and, I've been studying this type of grazing 12 years now, and it just
00:37:02 --> 00:37:06 seems to me that it's benefit, benefit, benefit for the farmers, benefit, benefit,
00:37:06 --> 00:37:09 benefit for the animals and the wildlife
00:37:10 --> 00:37:13 and the people eating the food and the neighbors of that farmer.
00:37:13 --> 00:37:20 You know, that's another thing that I've come to realize, Cal, you know, I've said
00:37:20 --> 00:37:22 that every farmer I know loves their land.
00:37:22 --> 00:37:23 Every
00:37:24 --> 00:37:28 farmer I know also wants to be a good neighbor
00:37:29 --> 00:37:30 Cal: Oh, yes.
00:37:31 --> 00:37:33 Peter: and would do anything for their neighbor.
00:37:34 --> 00:37:38 If asked, and might not even need to be asked if they see that there's a
00:37:38 --> 00:37:39 Cal: Right, if there is a need, yeah.
00:37:39 --> 00:37:40 Peter: they'll just be over there.
00:37:43 --> 00:37:46 What I've realized is when you're an adaptive farmer, when
00:37:46 --> 00:37:50 you're a regenerative farmer, you're an even better neighbor.
00:37:51 --> 00:37:54 You're providing wildlife habitat that will then
00:37:54 --> 00:37:55 improve your neighbor's land.
00:37:55 --> 00:38:00 You're providing water infiltration that will then not flood your neighbor.
00:38:00 --> 00:38:03 You're actually providing a landscape that's a better neighbor.
00:38:04 --> 00:38:10 And so I think that when conventional farmers understand that this is also a
00:38:10 --> 00:38:13 way by adopting regenerative practices, they can be a better neighbor.
00:38:15 --> 00:38:18 I think that'll be, I haven't had that conversation with farmers yet, but that's
00:38:18 --> 00:38:19 something I've been thinking about is
00:38:19 --> 00:38:23 we've, we've been on the road for over a year showing the series in
00:38:23 --> 00:38:27 churches and barns and universities and companies and all sorts of places
00:38:27 --> 00:38:31 around, you know, Well, so far to date, we've been all over the U.
00:38:31 --> 00:38:31 S.
00:38:32 --> 00:38:34 and in parts of Europe and South Africa.
00:38:35 --> 00:38:37 I'm going to go on an Australian tour in February.
00:38:38 --> 00:38:40 There's a guy who's just doing his own tour.
00:38:40 --> 00:38:42 In New Zealand right now.
00:38:42 --> 00:38:44 He's like, I'm, I've got to take this film around.
00:38:44 --> 00:38:46 I think he's got seven or ten screenings set up.
00:38:46 --> 00:38:46 It's
00:38:46 --> 00:38:47 amazing.
00:38:47 --> 00:38:47 Cal: yeah.
00:38:48 --> 00:38:53 Peter: And we, we, we want, I've just been learning and learning
00:38:53 --> 00:38:55 and learning on this tour.
00:38:55 --> 00:39:00 And it's that neighbor to neighbor piece that's, it's exemplified in
00:39:00 --> 00:39:03 our series, but it's not spelled out that whole idea of being a good
00:39:03 --> 00:39:05 neighbor by having healthy land.
00:39:06 --> 00:39:06 Cal: Oh, yeah.
00:39:07 --> 00:39:12 Peter: It's there, but it's I didn't like highlight it or put a underline on it, you
00:39:12 --> 00:39:14 know in the film, but I'm learning that
00:39:15 --> 00:39:19 Cal: So for my particular case, I ran it and my wife and I watched it and
00:39:20 --> 00:39:24 not, that doesn't get the conversation going to other people, but I know
00:39:24 --> 00:39:25 you're doing screenings around.
00:39:26 --> 00:39:29 If someone's like, Hey, we need to do a screening here.
00:39:29 --> 00:39:31 How do we go about that?
00:39:31 --> 00:39:33 Peter: Yes, our website has a lot of resources.
00:39:33 --> 00:39:39 It's Roots So Deep org Under info, there's a set up a screening tab
00:39:39 --> 00:39:41 and we've got a team that'll help
00:39:41 --> 00:39:44 And we're, we're going to expand our team.
00:39:44 --> 00:39:47 We have just expanded our team to help even more people do that.
00:39:47 --> 00:39:48 So that's easy.
00:39:49 --> 00:39:50 Cal: What kind of cost is associated with that?
00:39:52 --> 00:39:53 Peter: they're really reasonable.
00:39:53 --> 00:39:56 I don't know exactly what those costs are, but they're, if you have
00:39:56 --> 00:40:00 10 people, it's going to be five bucks a piece or 10 bucks a piece.
00:40:00 --> 00:40:00 When you
00:40:00 --> 00:40:01 spread it out, you have a
00:40:01 --> 00:40:02 hundred people.
00:40:02 --> 00:40:03 It's a buck a piece.
00:40:03 --> 00:40:06 I think it's in that 200, 300, 400
00:40:07 --> 00:40:08 Cal: Oh yeah, which is not bad at
00:40:08 --> 00:40:11 Peter: But we've never said no to anyone who wants to screen it as
00:40:12 --> 00:40:12 Cal: Oh yeah.
00:40:12 --> 00:40:17 Peter: So we, the answer is always, yes, it's just, we're a not for profit.
00:40:17 --> 00:40:20 So if we can generate income from this project, that's, that's good for
00:40:20 --> 00:40:22 everybody as far as we're concerned.
00:40:23 --> 00:40:23 Cal: Oh yeah.
00:40:23 --> 00:40:25 Peter: so I can be here with you right now.
00:40:25 --> 00:40:27 The, the website also has.
00:40:28 --> 00:40:30 A lot of resources for folks who want to con, who wanna learn.
00:40:31 --> 00:40:32 So we
00:40:32 --> 00:40:36 basically just, we just steer people, people towards our good
00:40:36 --> 00:40:39 friends, Alan Williams and Gabe Brown's Soil Health Academy,
00:40:40 --> 00:40:40 Cal: Oh yeah.
00:40:41 --> 00:40:41 Peter: right?
00:40:41 --> 00:40:43 Soil health academy.org.
00:40:43 --> 00:40:45 You got a lot of resources there.
00:40:46 --> 00:40:49 Go to one of their one, one of their schools in an area near you.
00:40:49 --> 00:40:51 They're doing 'em all over the country.
00:40:51 --> 00:40:54 And and they're, to me, the best teachers.
00:40:54 --> 00:40:55 So why?
00:40:55 --> 00:40:57 And they're friends and, and I've learned so much from them.
00:40:57 --> 00:40:59 They're teachers of mine.
00:40:59 --> 00:41:01 And they're actually heroes of mine.
00:41:02 --> 00:41:04 And and there's other groups that are teaching as well.
00:41:04 --> 00:41:06 That's just the one we know best
00:41:06 --> 00:41:07 Cal: Oh yeah.
00:41:07 --> 00:41:07 Peter: though.
00:41:07 --> 00:41:11 So someone watches our film, they'll see that if anyone watches all
00:41:11 --> 00:41:13 the way to the end of the credits.
00:41:13 --> 00:41:15 They'll see Soil Health Academy on there.
00:41:15 --> 00:41:17 And if you go to our website, it's very clear.
00:41:17 --> 00:41:22 And then if you want to dig into the research, if you want to, I know
00:41:22 --> 00:41:24 a lot of farmers who love reading science, who love reading the research.
00:41:25 --> 00:41:27 There's a research tab on our website.
00:41:27 --> 00:41:31 And the first drop down is published research.
00:41:31 --> 00:41:31 That's our team.
00:41:31 --> 00:41:34 We have 12 published papers to date.
00:41:34 --> 00:41:36 We'll probably have six or seven more before this thing is
00:41:36 --> 00:41:38 done on our research.
00:41:38 --> 00:41:39 And then we have a tab.
00:41:40 --> 00:41:42 That is related research.
00:41:42 --> 00:41:44 So it's just enormous amount of research.
00:41:44 --> 00:41:46 We're just building that and building that.
00:41:46 --> 00:41:52 and and so we want to help connect to resources and we also want to help people.
00:41:52 --> 00:41:56 Our friends at Kiss the Ground, they have a beautiful tab that shows where, where
00:41:56 --> 00:41:58 you can buy this food around the country.
00:41:58 --> 00:41:59 And,
00:41:59 --> 00:42:05 and so, cause the farmers adopting regenerative practices, that's
00:42:05 --> 00:42:09 an action, but consumers, we need to buy from these farmers,
00:42:09 --> 00:42:10 Cal: Oh yeah.
00:42:10 --> 00:42:10 Right.
00:42:10 --> 00:42:14 Peter: that Kiss the Ground resource we have connected on our website.
00:42:14 --> 00:42:15 It's, it's quite good.
00:42:16 --> 00:42:18 And and so those are the reasons.
00:42:18 --> 00:42:21 So that's really, you're asking like what's next, right?
00:42:21 --> 00:42:22 What can people do?
00:42:22 --> 00:42:24 Farmers go to SoilHealthAcademy.
00:42:25 --> 00:42:29 org consumers check out our site, go to the Kiss the Ground site, find out
00:42:29 --> 00:42:34 where they can be buying stuff and, and, and, and see, meet your farmers.
00:42:35 --> 00:42:36 Right?
00:42:36 --> 00:42:40 And, and what's really interesting is if you buy the meat at a, you
00:42:40 --> 00:42:45 know, if you can buy a quarter and freeze it, you're actually going to
00:42:45 --> 00:42:47 be spending less money than you think.
00:42:47 --> 00:42:51 It'll actually be more economically viable for you than most conventional meats.
00:42:52 --> 00:42:52 Cal: Oh
00:42:52 --> 00:42:54 Peter: that's, that's just the what I'm learning.
00:42:55 --> 00:43:00 And, and so even the cost barrier, it's not really there.
00:43:00 --> 00:43:03 If you can go in with friends, buy a quarter, get it chopped up,
00:43:03 --> 00:43:06 and then you all get your pieces of it, you'll save a ton of money
00:43:07 --> 00:43:12 Cal: And you're supporting a farmer using these practices that's showing
00:43:12 --> 00:43:14 to be very beneficial for the ecosystem
00:43:14 --> 00:43:16 Peter: and then you're being a good neighbor and they're
00:43:16 --> 00:43:18 Cal: and you're being a good neighbor.
00:43:18 --> 00:43:18 Peter: right?
00:43:18 --> 00:43:22 And, and, and so it's, it's a, it's a virtual cycle,
00:43:22 --> 00:43:24 virtuous cycle of good stuff.
00:43:25 --> 00:43:28 Cal: so you mentioned there what's next for the consumer?
00:43:28 --> 00:43:29 What's next for the rancher?
00:43:29 --> 00:43:30 What's next for you?
00:43:31 --> 00:43:34 Peter: Sleep, I actually slept in this morning.
00:43:34 --> 00:43:37 I needed an extra hour in winter time, you know, when
00:43:37 --> 00:43:39 it's dark, when you wake up, but
00:43:39 --> 00:43:40 Cal: Oh Yeah,
00:43:40 --> 00:43:42 Peter: I had, I had to like, I'm like, I'm going to take an extra hour.
00:43:43 --> 00:43:43 Cal: yeah,
00:43:44 --> 00:43:49 Peter: Promoting, marketing, distributing the series is top of mind.
00:43:50 --> 00:43:53 We've got an amazing social media team, an amazing social media
00:43:53 --> 00:43:55 campaign that's going on right now.
00:43:55 --> 00:44:00 So we've got it's called Carbon Cowboys is our handle based on the
00:44:00 --> 00:44:01 short film series.
00:44:01 --> 00:44:05 So if you go to any of the, any of the social channels, you'll see us there.
00:44:05 --> 00:44:10 And continuing that filming at conferences and getting farmers
00:44:10 --> 00:44:13 to tell us, and ranchers to tell us their stories, to collect
00:44:13 --> 00:44:14 more and more stories.
00:44:15 --> 00:44:18 We couldn't possibly film all the success stories that are out there
00:44:18 --> 00:44:20 right now, but we want to try.
00:44:20 --> 00:44:25 We actually have a, a contest right now where Soil Health
00:44:25 --> 00:44:26 Academy is going to give away.
00:44:27 --> 00:44:29 A a scholarship for one of their, for one of their schools
00:44:30 --> 00:44:31 Cal: Oh Yes.
00:44:31 --> 00:44:32 Peter: are, if you go to root so deep.
00:44:33 --> 00:44:34 org, you'll see our contest.
00:44:34 --> 00:44:40 And that's, you know, the Tuesday after Thanksgiving is giving Tuesday
00:44:40 --> 00:44:43 where everyone's all the not for profits saying, donate to us, which
00:44:44 --> 00:44:45 we're, I think it's fantastic.
00:44:45 --> 00:44:49 We've decided to flip it and say, we're going to give.
00:44:50 --> 00:44:54 So we're going to take giving Tuesday and we're going to give a scholarship to Soil
00:44:54 --> 00:44:55 Health
00:44:55 --> 00:44:55 Cal: oh very
00:44:55 --> 00:44:58 Peter: The contest is for people to nominate somebody.
00:44:59 --> 00:45:00 To get that scholarship.
00:45:01 --> 00:45:03 So then we're gathering stories, right?
00:45:03 --> 00:45:04 And,
00:45:04 --> 00:45:07 and we'll pick, we'll pick the winner, but then we'll probably go
00:45:07 --> 00:45:11 and try to get folks to film their stories for us so we can post them.
00:45:11 --> 00:45:15 So then 50, 000 views can happen, 100, 000 views can
00:45:15 --> 00:45:15 happen.
00:45:16 --> 00:45:20 And, and, and to date with all the pieces on our social campaign, which
00:45:20 --> 00:45:25 are clips from Roots So Deep, clips from Carbon Cowboy series, Clips of people
00:45:25 --> 00:45:30 responding to seeing Roots So Deep, clips of people just telling us how
00:45:30 --> 00:45:32 life is going on their farm right now.
00:45:32 --> 00:45:35 We've got almost 90 million views,
00:45:35 --> 00:45:36 Cal: Oh, wow.
00:45:36 --> 00:45:37 Peter: and
00:45:37 --> 00:45:37 it's, and
00:45:37 --> 00:45:40 Cal: I'm not even close to 90 million with the podcast.
00:45:40 --> 00:45:42 Peter: That's, that's what, that's what it's about.
00:45:42 --> 00:45:42 We
00:45:43 --> 00:45:43 Cal: Oh, it is.
00:45:44 --> 00:45:44 Yeah.
00:45:44 --> 00:45:45 Peter: now we are.
00:45:45 --> 00:45:51 And, and so hopefully we can help everybody grow, but
00:45:51 --> 00:45:55 what's really amazing is how you know, everyone's saying our country
00:45:55 --> 00:45:58 is divided and you can make the case for it, but I actually personally
00:45:58 --> 00:46:02 feel that we have a lot more in common than not, if you just sit down and
00:46:02 --> 00:46:03 speak to people one on one.
00:46:03 --> 00:46:06 I've, I know that from my experience,
00:46:06 --> 00:46:07 Cal: Oh, yes.
00:46:07 --> 00:46:07 Yeah.
00:46:08 --> 00:46:12 Peter: but what's happened with soil health, As developed through
00:46:12 --> 00:46:18 regenerative grazing is we're finding that it's attracting everyone in
00:46:18 --> 00:46:22 our social media campaign and the responses we get the comments we get
00:46:22 --> 00:46:24 across the channels across the board.
00:46:25 --> 00:46:32 It is across all political, social filters, right?
00:46:32 --> 00:46:32 It's
00:46:32 --> 00:46:33 everything.
00:46:34 --> 00:46:34 Cal: Yeah.
00:46:34 --> 00:46:38 Peter: that's, to me, the power of soil health.
00:46:38 --> 00:46:39 It's hard to argue with it.
00:46:39 --> 00:46:42 It's, it's, it's easy to love.
00:46:43 --> 00:46:43 Easy to love.
00:46:43 --> 00:46:45 There's a Billie Holiday song called Easy to Love.
00:46:45 --> 00:46:46 It's easy to love
00:46:47 --> 00:46:47 Cal: Oh, yeah.
00:46:49 --> 00:46:52 And one last thing before we get to the famous four.
00:46:53 --> 00:46:58 Are you, I think you mentioned earlier that you all released and
00:46:58 --> 00:47:02 produced the docuseries, but you still had more data coming in.
00:47:02 --> 00:47:06 Is there going to be more parts to that released or are you working
00:47:06 --> 00:47:07 on a future project with that?
00:47:08 --> 00:47:08 Peter: Yeah.
00:47:08 --> 00:47:12 So the data coming in from the Southeast project is captured in the documentary.
00:47:13 --> 00:47:19 It's just a couple pieces of data were in the film before the papers were published.
00:47:19 --> 00:47:19 Cal: okay.
00:47:20 --> 00:47:26 Peter: And so it's reflected in and, you know, what we say in the documentary,
00:47:26 --> 00:47:30 especially about the greenhouse gas stuff is, you know, all science, our
00:47:30 --> 00:47:32 science, like all science is evolving.
00:47:33 --> 00:47:34 Cal: Right.
00:47:34 --> 00:47:34 Peter: Here's where we're
00:47:34 --> 00:47:35 at right now.
00:47:35 --> 00:47:38 So if, when those papers are published, we have to adjust
00:47:38 --> 00:47:41 the data in our film, we will.
00:47:41 --> 00:47:42 We'll make
00:47:42 --> 00:47:42 it very clear.
00:47:43 --> 00:47:48 And what I asked the scientist who's leading that team was just
00:47:48 --> 00:47:50 give us conservative numbers.
00:47:50 --> 00:47:51 You know, come
00:47:51 --> 00:47:55 in underneath what you're seeing right now so that if they change, The
00:47:55 --> 00:47:59 probably change where it's, the impact is even greater than what we've seen.
00:47:59 --> 00:48:03 But whatever it is, we'll, we'll change it to whichever way it goes.
00:48:03 --> 00:48:04 This is a science project, right?
00:48:05 --> 00:48:09 But if I didn't finish the film a couple of years ago and then start releasing
00:48:09 --> 00:48:13 it last summer, it wasn't good for my health to not have it finished.
00:48:13 --> 00:48:15 Cal: Oh yeah.
00:48:15 --> 00:48:15 Peter: I needed that.
00:48:16 --> 00:48:20 I needed that flow of energy to get me out of the house, out into the world.
00:48:21 --> 00:48:26 And sharing this stuff and, and, and, and enjoying the impact, seeing the impact
00:48:26 --> 00:48:27 farmers are changing from screenings.
00:48:28 --> 00:48:29 Cal: Oh
00:48:29 --> 00:48:29 yeah.
00:48:29 --> 00:48:30 Peter: it's, it's real.
00:48:30 --> 00:48:31 It's cool.
00:48:31 --> 00:48:31 It's
00:48:31 --> 00:48:32 so cool.
00:48:32 --> 00:48:32 Cal: Oh, I
00:48:32 --> 00:48:32 Peter: so.
00:48:33 --> 00:48:33 cool.
00:48:34 --> 00:48:36 Cal: Well Peter, it's time for our Famous Four,
00:48:36 --> 00:48:39 sponsored by Kencove farm Fence.
00:48:39 --> 00:48:42 Kencove Farm Fence is a proud supporter of the Grazing Grass
00:48:42 --> 00:48:44 podcast and graziers everywhere.
00:48:44 --> 00:48:49 At Kencove Farm Fence, they believe there's true value within the community
00:48:49 --> 00:48:50 of graziers and land stewards.
00:48:51 --> 00:48:54 The results that follow proper management and monitoring can
00:48:54 --> 00:48:56 change the very world around us.
00:48:56 --> 00:49:01 That's why Kencove is dedicated to providing an ever expanding line of
00:49:01 --> 00:49:04 grazing products to make your chores easier and your land more abundant.
00:49:05 --> 00:49:08 Whether you're growing your own food on the homestead or grazing
00:49:08 --> 00:49:13 on thousands of acres, Kencove has everything you need to do it well.
00:49:14 --> 00:49:18 From reels to tumblewheels, polytwine to electric nets, water valves to
00:49:18 --> 00:49:22 water troughs, you'll find what you're looking for at Kencove.
00:49:23 --> 00:49:26 They carry brands like Speedrite, O'Brien's, Kiwitech,
00:49:26 --> 00:49:28 Strainrite, Jobe, and more.
00:49:28 --> 00:49:31 Kencove is proud to be part of your regenerative journey.
00:49:32 --> 00:49:35 Call them today or visit Kencove.com.
00:49:35 --> 00:49:40 And be sure to follow them on social media and subscribe to the Kencove YouTube
00:49:40 --> 00:49:47 channel @KencoveFarmFence for helpful how to videos and new product releases!
00:49:48 --> 00:49:52 Same four questions we ask of everyone, and we're going to adjust them just
00:49:52 --> 00:49:55 a little bit for you, but we're going to maintain that same theme.
00:49:55 --> 00:49:59 What's your favorite grazing grass related book or resource?
00:50:00 --> 00:50:03 Peter: You told me to be prepared for this, so this is the first
00:50:03 --> 00:50:05 one, a Sand County Almanac
00:50:06 --> 00:50:06 Cal: Oh, yes.
00:50:07 --> 00:50:08 Peter: by Aldo Leopold.
00:50:08 --> 00:50:11 Cal: You know, that one's recommended a lot and I've not read
00:50:11 --> 00:50:13 it yet, so I really need to read
00:50:13 --> 00:50:17 Peter: Yeah, the guy was just, he was just so ahead of the game.
00:50:17 --> 00:50:21 And, and, and this was March 4th, 1948.
00:50:21 --> 00:50:21 I
00:50:21 --> 00:50:23 mean, so ahead of the game.
00:50:24 --> 00:50:29 And then this book by Nathan Sayer called the politics of scale.
00:50:30 --> 00:50:30 Cal: Oh, yes.
00:50:30 --> 00:50:36 Peter: This one's showing that pretty much all grazing Decisions were based
00:50:37 --> 00:50:41 on a very wet decade in Nebraska
00:50:41 --> 00:50:42 Cal: Oh, yes.
00:50:42 --> 00:50:48 Peter: like so many of the US grazing decisions that are now like part of BLM
00:50:48 --> 00:50:53 Regulations were based on one part of the country during an abnormal Weather.
00:50:53 --> 00:50:54 Cal: Oh, interesting.
00:50:55 --> 00:50:56 Peter: it's really interesting.
00:50:56 --> 00:50:58 And then this one, I'll put this at the top.
00:50:59 --> 00:51:00 Cal: Oh, nourishment.
00:51:00 --> 00:51:01 Peter: Nourishment.
00:51:02 --> 00:51:09 And Fred's, to cook it down, is he, he, he's showing that animals know how
00:51:09 --> 00:51:15 to balance their diet if they're given the right choices of biodiverse forage.
00:51:15 --> 00:51:19 They know how to balance their diet on a daily or hourly
00:51:19 --> 00:51:20 basis if they have the choice.
00:51:20 --> 00:51:21 They know
00:51:21 --> 00:51:22 what they need at that moment.
00:51:23 --> 00:51:26 And he's asking the question, do we as humans still have that?
00:51:27 --> 00:51:31 With all the sort of fake food that are coming at us and all the engineered
00:51:31 --> 00:51:35 tastes and engineered making you feel full when you're not full of nutrients,
00:51:36 --> 00:51:37 all those things.
00:51:37 --> 00:51:40 And so those, those are the three books that I would
00:51:40 --> 00:51:40 recommend
00:51:41 --> 00:51:42 Cal: excellent resources.
00:51:42 --> 00:51:43 Excellent resources.
00:51:44 --> 00:51:47 Our second question, what's your favorite tool?
00:51:47 --> 00:51:51 And usually we say for the farm, but let's just say, what's your
00:51:51 --> 00:51:53 favorite tool for this project?
00:51:53 --> 00:51:54 Peter: the drone.
00:51:55 --> 00:51:56 Cal: The drone.
00:51:56 --> 00:51:57 Peter: Yeah, my drone.
00:51:58 --> 00:51:59 Cal: Oh, yeah.
00:51:59 --> 00:52:03 Peter: I, it's the one I use is called the Mavic pro by DJI.
00:52:04 --> 00:52:04 Cal: Yes.
00:52:05 --> 00:52:06 Peter: engineered product.
00:52:06 --> 00:52:08 It's easy to use.
00:52:10 --> 00:52:16 I got to film the farms from a, from a vantage point that I don't have
00:52:16 --> 00:52:17 that I've always wanted to have.
00:52:18 --> 00:52:18 Cal: Oh, yeah,
00:52:18 --> 00:52:22 Peter: I could see the difference in grazing clearly from up above.
00:52:23 --> 00:52:26 I, I just, I, I love drone shots.
00:52:26 --> 00:52:28 I just like them myself.
00:52:28 --> 00:52:28 And.
00:52:28 --> 00:52:29 Cal: I agree.
00:52:29 --> 00:52:31 Peter: It's such a good tool to use.
00:52:31 --> 00:52:35 I think every farm should have one because then you can send that
00:52:35 --> 00:52:38 drone way away and you can see stuff without having to go all the way out
00:52:38 --> 00:52:41 there, especially for the ranchers in the West who have big tracts of
00:52:41 --> 00:52:42 Cal: Oh, yeah.
00:52:42 --> 00:52:43 Peter: Yes, that's the drone.
00:52:43 --> 00:52:48 Cal: Yeah that I think that's probably the first time the drone's been mentioned
00:52:48 --> 00:52:51 as a favorite tool But I I love my drone.
00:52:51 --> 00:52:53 I could see yeah
00:52:53 --> 00:52:55 Peter: And that's a, that's a tool that works for me as
00:52:55 --> 00:52:56 a filmmaker and for you as a
00:52:57 --> 00:52:58 Cal: Yes, it does.
00:52:58 --> 00:53:02 Peter: And, and just to, just to say it at the end of episode four.
00:53:03 --> 00:53:07 I'm showing this shot that I took with my first drone on the film.
00:53:08 --> 00:53:10 And then I pulled back and I treed it.
00:53:12 --> 00:53:13 I treed my drone.
00:53:13 --> 00:53:15 My drone got stuck in a tree
00:53:15 --> 00:53:17 Cal: You know, that can happen.
00:53:17 --> 00:53:18 Peter: I had to get a new drone.
00:53:18 --> 00:53:19 That's what happened.
00:53:19 --> 00:53:20 Cal: That can happen.
00:53:20 --> 00:53:22 Just on, I saw a video the other day.
00:53:22 --> 00:53:28 A guy with a drone flew it through, and I don't know what type of drone it was,
00:53:28 --> 00:53:31 flew it through a tire rolling downhill.
00:53:31 --> 00:53:32 Peter: Wow.
00:53:32 --> 00:53:32 That's
00:53:32 --> 00:53:32 skill.
00:53:33 --> 00:53:34 Cal: was crazy
00:53:34 --> 00:53:36 Peter: That is, that's skill.
00:53:36 --> 00:53:37 Cal: yeah, anyway,
00:53:37 --> 00:53:40 what advice do you give to someone just getting started?
00:53:40 --> 00:53:42 And let's, let's break that into two parts.
00:53:42 --> 00:53:42 Peter: Right.
00:53:44 --> 00:53:49 In filmmaking, start making a film and there's so many applications for
00:53:49 --> 00:53:51 editing that are real easy to use.
00:53:51 --> 00:53:54 Just start making short, short films.
00:53:55 --> 00:53:56 That's, that's what I would say.
00:53:56 --> 00:53:59 Just get going, but don't try to do a big film.
00:53:59 --> 00:54:00 Don't try to do a 10 minute film.
00:54:00 --> 00:54:01 Do a 1 minute film
00:54:01 --> 00:54:05 or a 30 second film and film people in your family.
00:54:05 --> 00:54:06 Ask them questions.
00:54:06 --> 00:54:08 Find out things about your family members that maybe you
00:54:08 --> 00:54:11 didn't even know and be curious.
00:54:11 --> 00:54:12 Be
00:54:12 --> 00:54:13 curious.
00:54:13 --> 00:54:13 Cal: that.
00:54:13 --> 00:54:14 Be curious.
00:54:14 --> 00:54:15 Yeah.
00:54:15 --> 00:54:16 An excellent advice.
00:54:16 --> 00:54:18 That advice of just getting started.
00:54:18 --> 00:54:21 We share so much just on the agricultural side.
00:54:21 --> 00:54:23 As, as the second part of that question,
00:54:24 --> 00:54:29 what do you recommend for someone just getting started in, in agriculture?
00:54:29 --> 00:54:32 Peter: Well, I am NOT a farmer.
00:54:32 --> 00:54:35 And so I know what, I know what Alan Williams says.
00:54:35 --> 00:54:36 I know what Gabe Brown says.
00:54:37 --> 00:54:40 And so go to, I'd say go to SoilHealthAcademy.
00:54:40 --> 00:54:46 org, but one thing I know in animal agriculture, they say start small, right?
00:54:46 --> 00:54:47 Start with chickens,
00:54:48 --> 00:54:48 Cal: Mm hmm.
00:54:48 --> 00:54:51 Peter: and if you want to get a ruminant, start with a small ruminant like sheep.
00:54:52 --> 00:54:59 Don't buy land, get yourself a lease on land and, and, and, and try to try
00:54:59 --> 00:55:03 to, I would say from my perspective, from what I've learned, go work
00:55:03 --> 00:55:05 for the farmer you most respect
00:55:05 --> 00:55:06 Cal: Oh, yes.
00:55:06 --> 00:55:09 Peter: and learn on their nickel while you learn
00:55:10 --> 00:55:14 and don't worry about debt and all that stuff yet and land acquiring.
00:55:15 --> 00:55:18 And there are a lot of farmers in their 50s and well, a lot of farmers
00:55:18 --> 00:55:22 in their 60s and 70s, whose kids don't want to continue the farming
00:55:23 --> 00:55:26 that would love to know their land's going to continue in this
00:55:26 --> 00:55:32 method of farming and, and they're looking, I, I, I know that, that Alan
00:55:32 --> 00:55:37 talks about connecting people like that, you know, those, those, those things,
00:55:37 --> 00:55:38 because I, I think there's a huge need.
00:55:39 --> 00:55:43 That I've seen where farmers need that next generation, it's not necessarily
00:55:43 --> 00:55:46 coming from their children, but what
00:55:46 --> 00:55:51 I've also seen is when farmers go towards adaptive practices, their
00:55:51 --> 00:55:56 kids are much more it seems like much more apt to, to come back to the farm.
00:55:58 --> 00:56:01 Cal: I can see it because to, to be honest, it just looks
00:56:01 --> 00:56:03 a little healthier out there.
00:56:03 --> 00:56:05 Peter: And the parents look a bit happier
00:56:05 --> 00:56:06 Cal: Oh, yeah.
00:56:06 --> 00:56:07 Oh, yeah.
00:56:07 --> 00:56:07 And that makes a big
00:56:08 --> 00:56:09 Peter: and their bank accounts a bit better.
00:56:10 --> 00:56:12 Cal: That makes a big difference.
00:56:12 --> 00:56:13 Excellent advice there, Peter.
00:56:14 --> 00:56:17 And lastly, where can others find out more about you and the docu series?
00:56:18 --> 00:56:20 Peter: Well, if you go to rootsodeep.
00:56:20 --> 00:56:23 org, you'll see everything you need to know about seeing our series.
00:56:24 --> 00:56:27 And it'll, it'll, if you've used Carbon Cowboys as our social media
00:56:27 --> 00:56:31 handle, you'll get a lot of new stuff all the time, all the time.
00:56:32 --> 00:56:33 That's really where, where it's at right
00:56:33 --> 00:56:34 now.
00:56:34 --> 00:56:34 Cal: very good.
00:56:35 --> 00:56:35 Yeah.
00:56:35 --> 00:56:39 Well, Peter, thank you for coming on and sharing with us today.
00:56:39 --> 00:56:39 Really enjoyed it.
00:56:40 --> 00:56:40 Peter: Thank you, Cal.
00:56:40 --> 00:56:41 Appreciate it.
00:56:42 --> 00:56:46 Cal: Thank you for listening to this episode of the grazing grass podcast,
00:56:46 --> 00:56:50 where we bring you stories and insights into grass-based livestock production.
00:56:51 --> 00:56:53 If you're new here, we've got something just for you.
00:56:53 --> 00:56:55 Our new listener resource guide.
00:56:56 --> 00:57:00 Is packed with everything you need to get started on your listening
00:57:00 --> 00:57:02 journey with a grazing grass podcast.
00:57:02 --> 00:57:06 It gives you more information about the podcast about myself.
00:57:06 --> 00:57:07 And next steps.
00:57:08 --> 00:57:13 You can grab your free copy at grazinggrass.com slash guide.
00:57:13 --> 00:57:14 Don't miss out.
00:57:15 --> 00:57:18 And Hey, do you have a grazing story to share?
00:57:18 --> 00:57:22 We're always looking for passionate producers to feature on the show,
00:57:23 --> 00:57:27 whether you're just starting out or have years of experience your story matters.
00:57:28 --> 00:57:29 Head over to grazing grass.
00:57:30 --> 00:57:31 Dot com slash guest.
00:57:32 --> 00:57:34 To learn more and apply to be a guest.
00:57:34 --> 00:57:38 We'd love to share your journey with our growing community of grazers.
00:57:39 --> 00:57:40 Until next time.
00:57:41 --> 00:57:42 Keep on grazing grass.
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