Join us for an engaging exploration of regenerative grazing with McKinley Smoot and Mitch Dumpke of Three Springs Landing Cattle. Mitch, transitioning from a tech background to regenerative agriculture, shares his insights alongside McKinley, who brings a lifetime of ranching experience and holistic management. Discover the dynamics of their collaborative venture, including the challenges and learning experiences faced in starting their grass-finishing cattle and pastured chicken operation in Utah. Despite some technical issues with Mitch's audio, McKinley provides invaluable perspectives on their practices, complemented by updates on our own farm and exciting upcoming changes to the podcast.
Listen in as Mitch recounts his journey from veganism to embracing a more holistic approach to meat consumption. This transformation is fueled by an understanding of nutritional value and ethical meat production practices. We explore the significance of connecting with food sources, contrasting fast food with sustainably raised livestock, and discuss the impact of agro-tourism in fostering deeper consumer-farmer relationships. The partnership of Mitch, James, and McKinley brings together diverse perspectives—environmental, nutritional, and more—showcasing their shared dedication to sustainable agriculture.
The future of sustainable agriculture takes center stage as we navigate the challenges of profitability in farming, particularly amid rising land values and development pressures. Discover the creative solutions employed by McKinley and Mitch, from using Joel Salatin's methods to innovative electric fencing, all underscoring the potential for sustainable practices to thrive. The conversation sheds light on their perseverance in building a sustainable business model, emphasizing the importance of community support, adaptability, and a commitment to transparency. As they strive to maintain financial viability and ecological balance, the narrative highlights the collaborative efforts in holistic ranch management and the continuous journey of learning and improvement.
Links Mentioned in the Episode
3 Springs Land & Livestock
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Noble Research Institute
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NOTE This file was generated by Descript
00:00:00 --> 00:00:03 Welcome to the Grazing Grasses podcast episode 146.
00:00:05 --> 00:00:07 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: Learn how to do financial planning
00:00:07 --> 00:00:11 and incorporate your financial planning into your grazing management,
00:00:12 --> 00:00:15 Cal: You're listening to the grazing grass, podcast, sharing
00:00:15 --> 00:00:19 information and stories of grass-based livestock production
00:00:19 --> 00:00:21 utilizing regenerative practices.
00:00:21 --> 00:00:23 I'm your host, Cal Hardage.
00:00:25 --> 00:00:27 You're growing more than grass.
00:00:27 --> 00:00:31 You're growing a healthier ecosystem to help your cattle
00:00:31 --> 00:00:32 thrive in their environment.
00:00:33 --> 00:00:37 You're growing your livelihood by increasing your carrying capacity
00:00:38 --> 00:00:40 and reducing your operating costs.
00:00:40 --> 00:00:46 You're growing stronger communities and a legacy to last generations.
00:00:47 --> 00:00:49 The grazing management decisions you make today.
00:00:50 --> 00:00:55 impact everything from the soil beneath your feet to the community all around you.
00:00:56 --> 00:01:01 That's why the Noble Research Institute created their Essentials
00:01:01 --> 00:01:06 of Regenerative Grazing course to teach ranchers like you easy to follow
00:01:06 --> 00:01:13 techniques to quickly assess your forage production and infrastructure capacity.
00:01:13 --> 00:01:16 In order to begin grazing more efficiently.
00:01:17 --> 00:01:21 Together, they can help you grow not only a healthier operation,
00:01:22 --> 00:01:24 but a legacy that lasts.
00:01:24 --> 00:01:28 Learn more on their website at noble.
00:01:28 --> 00:01:30 org slash grazing.
00:01:30 --> 00:01:37 It's n o b l e dot org forward slash grazing.
00:01:38 --> 00:01:44 On today's episode, we have McKinley Smoot and Mitch donkey of three Springs
00:01:44 --> 00:01:49 landing cattle, them along with their co-founder James Gilson started three
00:01:49 --> 00:01:52 Springs land and livestock in Utah.
00:01:52 --> 00:01:58 Where they grass finish grassfed and grass-finished cattle, as
00:01:58 --> 00:01:59 well as doing pastured chickens.
00:02:00 --> 00:02:03 We talked about how that works with three people.
00:02:04 --> 00:02:06 And getting started.
00:02:06 --> 00:02:09 And some of those growing pains when you're getting started.
00:02:10 --> 00:02:13 And we had a growing pain ourselves on the podcast.
00:02:13 --> 00:02:15 Midway through the episode.
00:02:15 --> 00:02:17 Mitch's mic decided.
00:02:19 --> 00:02:22 I don't know what it decide, but anyway, we didn't get audio.
00:02:22 --> 00:02:24 So the first half of the podcast.
00:02:25 --> 00:02:27 We're talking to McKinley and Mitch.
00:02:27 --> 00:02:30 And then for the last half, it's just McKinley.
00:02:31 --> 00:02:31 So that.
00:02:32 --> 00:02:34 The episode's a little choppy in places.
00:02:34 --> 00:02:36 I've tried to edit that and fix that.
00:02:36 --> 00:02:38 And that's completely on me.
00:02:38 --> 00:02:41 The software gave me an error, but I still thought we were okay.
00:02:41 --> 00:02:44 And ended up losing some, a Mitch's audio.
00:02:45 --> 00:02:46 Really good episode.
00:02:46 --> 00:02:47 I think you'll enjoy it.
00:02:48 --> 00:02:49 Uh, 10 seconds about my farm.
00:02:50 --> 00:02:52 I hate to admit this.
00:02:53 --> 00:02:55 Um, I'm feeding hay to my cows.
00:02:55 --> 00:02:58 You know, I've talked, we were in a little bit of a drought.
00:02:58 --> 00:02:59 We're kind of wet now.
00:03:00 --> 00:03:01 And I may mention.
00:03:01 --> 00:03:02 I've fed a few bales to them.
00:03:02 --> 00:03:05 So not a great lot, but I'm about to.
00:03:06 --> 00:03:10 Kick it up a gear, and this is the earliest I have fed hay.
00:03:11 --> 00:03:12 In years.
00:03:13 --> 00:03:16 Um, Some years are like that.
00:03:16 --> 00:03:16 So.
00:03:17 --> 00:03:18 It's where we are on the farm.
00:03:18 --> 00:03:20 10 seconds about the podcast.
00:03:20 --> 00:03:23 I mentioned last week, we're going to do kind of a podcast refresh.
00:03:23 --> 00:03:27 And I said, mid December, I think we're going to start that December 1st or.
00:03:28 --> 00:03:30 The first episode in December.
00:03:30 --> 00:03:32 So next week, I still got a couple.
00:03:32 --> 00:03:35 Uh, pieces to fall into place, but I think we're going to be ready to
00:03:36 --> 00:03:37 do a little bit of a transition.
00:03:38 --> 00:03:40 For you when you're listening, just know it.
00:03:40 --> 00:03:42 Won't start with.
00:03:42 --> 00:03:44 Welcome to the grazing grass podcast.
00:03:44 --> 00:03:45 We're going to start it a little bit different.
00:03:47 --> 00:03:51 Same great content and hopefully a better resource for you.
00:03:52 --> 00:03:55 And speaking of resources, I was listening to a podcast the other day.
00:03:57 --> 00:03:59 And they have a new listener resource guide.
00:04:00 --> 00:04:01 So immediately.
00:04:01 --> 00:04:04 I went to their site, signed up for it and received it.
00:04:05 --> 00:04:05 I looked at it.
00:04:05 --> 00:04:10 I thought, you know, We should do that for the Grazing Grass Podcast, but I
00:04:10 --> 00:04:14 wanted to do it a little bit different rather than being something you download
00:04:14 --> 00:04:18 that gets lost on your hard drive or you see it for a minute and it's gone.
00:04:19 --> 00:04:21 It's a four day email.
00:04:22 --> 00:04:24 Series, I guess would be the right word.
00:04:24 --> 00:04:25 So sign up.
00:04:26 --> 00:04:28 You get an email talks about podcasts.
00:04:29 --> 00:04:31 Next day, you're getting mail talks about me.
00:04:32 --> 00:04:36 Following day about the community and resources and the fourth
00:04:36 --> 00:04:37 day, some other resources.
00:04:38 --> 00:04:41 So just to get you more knowledgeable about the podcast.
00:04:41 --> 00:04:45 You can sign up for it at the website, go to grazing grass.com.
00:04:45 --> 00:04:46 We have a banner tops.
00:04:46 --> 00:04:50 A new listener resource guide, click on it and you can sign up for it.
00:04:50 --> 00:04:54 You can also, we will put a link in our show notes as well.
00:04:54 --> 00:04:57 I know we're calling it the new listener resource guide, but
00:04:57 --> 00:04:59 I encourage you to go to it.
00:04:59 --> 00:05:02 And click on it, even if you're, OGN been here a while.
00:05:03 --> 00:05:05 Give you more information and we'll see how it goes.
00:05:07 --> 00:05:09 I hope it provides value to you.
00:05:09 --> 00:05:12 I'd love to get feedback on it if it does, if it doesn't.
00:05:13 --> 00:05:14 But it's available.
00:05:14 --> 00:05:17 Um, with that said, let's go ahead and talk to the McKinley.
00:05:18 --> 00:05:20 For the episode and talk to Mitch for a little bit at the beginning.
00:05:21 --> 00:05:23 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: McKinley and Mitch, we want to welcome
00:05:23 --> 00:05:24 you to the Grazing Grass Podcast.
00:05:25 --> 00:05:26 We're excited you're here today.
00:05:28 --> 00:05:28 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: Wonderful
00:05:28 --> 00:05:29 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: to be here.
00:05:29 --> 00:05:30 Yeah, really appreciate it.
00:05:31 --> 00:05:33 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Well, to get started, why don't we
00:05:33 --> 00:05:35 start with Mitch right off?
00:05:35 --> 00:05:39 Because Mitch was the person I talked to first.
00:05:39 --> 00:05:41 Mitch, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
00:05:42 --> 00:05:42 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: Yes, sir.
00:05:42 --> 00:05:43 You bet.
00:05:43 --> 00:05:44 So my name is Mitch Dumpke.
00:05:44 --> 00:05:49 I'm living in Salt Lake City, Utah, but ranch with my partner, McKinley, and
00:05:49 --> 00:05:54 other partner, James, up in the Kams Valley of Utah, east of Salt Lake Valley.
00:05:54 --> 00:05:58 Yeah, I grew up in Utah, born and raised, had a few stints elsewhere, but I had a.
00:05:58 --> 00:06:03 10 year run in the tech industry and product management and we've spent the
00:06:03 --> 00:06:06 last we're in our fourth season now as Three Springs Land and Livestock.
00:06:07 --> 00:06:10 So just getting our operation going as a regenerative holistic ranch,
00:06:10 --> 00:06:12 but that's a little bit about me.
00:06:12 --> 00:06:16 I got four young kids, 10, 7, 5 and a year old.
00:06:16 --> 00:06:18 So staying busy with the kiddos,
00:06:19 --> 00:06:20 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Yes, you are.
00:06:20 --> 00:06:20 Yes.
00:06:21 --> 00:06:22 McKinley, tell us a little bit about you.
00:06:24 --> 00:06:25 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: Yeah, I'm McKinley Smoot.
00:06:25 --> 00:06:28 I I grew up on a cattle ranch.
00:06:28 --> 00:06:33 My dad was a holistic resource manager back in the day, which has now kind
00:06:33 --> 00:06:35 of turned into holistic management.
00:06:35 --> 00:06:39 And so I just kind of grew up around that being very not paying
00:06:39 --> 00:06:42 attention as kids and teenagers do.
00:06:42 --> 00:06:43 I didn't really notice why.
00:06:45 --> 00:06:49 dad was trying to do was important anyway, so that was in the early 90s
00:06:49 --> 00:06:53 and he ended up getting out of that and went, went into real estate,
00:06:53 --> 00:06:55 which was kind of the family business.
00:06:55 --> 00:06:59 And so, right now, that's also what I do and we just started this cattle
00:06:59 --> 00:07:03 ranch and we, we lease a bunch of land in, in the Camas Valley and.
00:07:05 --> 00:07:10 My my wife is actually four and a half months pregnant, which is great.
00:07:10 --> 00:07:11 And
00:07:11 --> 00:07:12 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Congratulations.
00:07:12 --> 00:07:12 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: thank you.
00:07:12 --> 00:07:18 And so we're, we're all just starting a whole, a whole thing here.
00:07:18 --> 00:07:18 Families,
00:07:19 --> 00:07:20 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: starting our herds.
00:07:20 --> 00:07:20 That's right.
00:07:22 --> 00:07:24 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: So my question for both of you, McKinley, it sounds
00:07:24 --> 00:07:26 like you grew up around ranching.
00:07:26 --> 00:07:30 So you may have thought, Hey, this is something I have some interest in.
00:07:32 --> 00:07:32 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: Yeah.
00:07:32 --> 00:07:34 You know, I had no interest if it oddly
00:07:34 --> 00:07:42 enough, I had, I had no interest in it until 20, 23 years old and I'm 32 now, so.
00:07:43 --> 00:07:45 I didn't understand it.
00:07:45 --> 00:07:48 Part of the reason my dad did a lot of custom grazing for different people.
00:07:49 --> 00:07:55 And so there wasn't, which, which was great, but there wasn't like an
00:07:55 --> 00:08:00 attachment of like, this is our herd, or this is like these animals, you
00:08:00 --> 00:08:04 know, it's just, it's, it's, it's great, but it's a little bit less involved.
00:08:04 --> 00:08:06 And so I just didn't understand it.
00:08:06 --> 00:08:10 I didn't care as a teenager, you know, things I cared about were, you know,
00:08:11 --> 00:08:13 Not that you know, sports and all that.
00:08:14 --> 00:08:17 And so then I I actually stumbled upon, and my dad told me all
00:08:17 --> 00:08:20 the, all these stories growing up about working with these people.
00:08:20 --> 00:08:24 I had no idea who they are, but then I saw Alan Savory's Ted talk.
00:08:25 --> 00:08:25 And
00:08:25 --> 00:08:26 that, that kind of.
00:08:28 --> 00:08:32 Changed the trajectory of my life pretty dramatically and ended up
00:08:32 --> 00:08:37 getting a credit, becoming an accredited professional with them about 5, 6
00:08:37 --> 00:08:43 years ago and spending time with, with the folks there and then also with
00:08:43 --> 00:08:49 Alan himself and, and so we're trying to incorporate a lot of the holistic
00:08:49 --> 00:08:53 management framework into our operation, which shouldn't be that difficult, but
00:08:53 --> 00:08:55 it is, has been a challenge over time.
00:08:56 --> 00:08:59 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Now, that was prior to you all starting Three
00:08:59 --> 00:09:01 Springs Land and Cattle, correct?
00:09:01 --> 00:09:02 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: It was.
00:09:02 --> 00:09:03 Yeah.
00:09:03 --> 00:09:05 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: so why did you decide to go on that path
00:09:06 --> 00:09:07 of getting that accreditation?
00:09:09 --> 00:09:11 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: You know, it's, that's a really good question.
00:09:11 --> 00:09:15 I, at the time I was really getting into Birdwatching ornithology is this
00:09:15 --> 00:09:19 kind of like spending spending time looking through binoculars a lot.
00:09:19 --> 00:09:24 And I began to notice that there were a really dramatically high
00:09:24 --> 00:09:28 on our cattle ranch, high numbers of birds where the cattle had
00:09:28 --> 00:09:30 been or where they were going to.
00:09:30 --> 00:09:30 And
00:09:30 --> 00:09:31 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, yes.
00:09:32 --> 00:09:34 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: so, I had just gotten interested in kind of
00:09:36 --> 00:09:41 into ecology and the environment and just from a recreational standpoint.
00:09:41 --> 00:09:45 And then I all of a sudden had that through watching that video realize
00:09:45 --> 00:09:50 that I can actually, we, you know, people can make decisions that directly
00:09:50 --> 00:09:55 impact that it's not just a thing that we visit or you know, it's like,
00:09:55 --> 00:09:56 oh, I spent some time in nature.
00:09:56 --> 00:09:58 It's like, oh, no, I actually have any relationship
00:09:59 --> 00:09:59 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh,
00:10:00 --> 00:10:02 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: or, you know, God's creation or,
00:10:02 --> 00:10:04 or however you want to refer to it.
00:10:04 --> 00:10:09 And that's a, that was a lot more impactful for me.
00:10:10 --> 00:10:12 And so I was like, I have to do this.
00:10:12 --> 00:10:16 And then once I started doing it, it's like, oh, there's nothing else I can do.
00:10:16 --> 00:10:19 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Yeah, down that rabbit hole, you're, you're lost now.
00:10:19 --> 00:10:20 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: I'm cooked.
00:10:20 --> 00:10:21 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Or, or found, I don't know.
00:10:21 --> 00:10:23 Now,
00:10:23 --> 00:10:24 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: both at the same time.
00:10:24 --> 00:10:25 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: It's deep.
00:10:25 --> 00:10:26 He's he's gone.
00:10:27 --> 00:10:30 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: one thing when you say that, I find very interesting.
00:10:30 --> 00:10:33 I just watched the Roots So Deep documentary.
00:10:33 --> 00:10:37 And, we, we have birds on our land.
00:10:37 --> 00:10:40 You know, I, I know where we'll have some bobwhite.
00:10:41 --> 00:10:42 The meadowlarks are thick.
00:10:42 --> 00:10:44 The killdeer love to nest on my driveway.
00:10:45 --> 00:10:52 And, in watching that documentary, I was shocked by how different the bird
00:10:52 --> 00:10:57 populations of grassland birds could be from one farm to the next farm.
00:10:57 --> 00:11:01 And I really had not considered that before I watched that.
00:11:02 --> 00:11:06 So watching or doing bird watching and seeing birds out there.
00:11:06 --> 00:11:07 That's amazing.
00:11:07 --> 00:11:12 And as you, you watch that, it's like, Oh, wait, everyone else doesn't have
00:11:12 --> 00:11:14 the Mandalarks and the Bob White here.
00:11:14 --> 00:11:18 So that was very interesting and somewhat eye opening to me.
00:11:18 --> 00:11:20 So I think that's very interesting, McKinley, that, that
00:11:20 --> 00:11:22 was kind of your path in was.
00:11:24 --> 00:11:25 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: It was, it was, it was It was like
00:11:25 --> 00:11:27 a very small detail in my life.
00:11:27 --> 00:11:29 It wasn't like this big thing.
00:11:29 --> 00:11:32 It was just like, I just drew me to it.
00:11:32 --> 00:11:33 Yeah, it's odd.
00:11:33 --> 00:11:34 It's odd.
00:11:34 --> 00:11:34 The things in life
00:11:35 --> 00:11:37 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, it, it is.
00:11:37 --> 00:11:42 It's amazing that this happens and somewhere you're doing this now.
00:11:42 --> 00:11:42 Yeah.
00:11:43 --> 00:11:46 Mitch, for you, did you always think, Hey, I'm going to have
00:11:46 --> 00:11:49 a ranch and raise cattle?
00:11:49 --> 00:11:51 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: You know, before we started this ranch,
00:11:51 --> 00:11:55 right before we started, I actually I was a vegan vegetarian trying to
00:11:55 --> 00:11:57 save the planet by not eating meat.
00:11:57 --> 00:11:59 So that's kind of where I, that's where my head was at.
00:12:00 --> 00:12:05 So, excuse me The third part of Three Springs Land and Livestock
00:12:05 --> 00:12:06 is our partner, James Gilson.
00:12:07 --> 00:12:11 He was a longtime friend of mine and I was working in tech.
00:12:12 --> 00:12:14 I was trying to save the planet by not eating meat.
00:12:15 --> 00:12:18 I was involved, involved more in environmental interests than.
00:12:18 --> 00:12:20 Agricultural interests.
00:12:20 --> 00:12:25 And he happened to, James happened to hunt an elk and he offered me some of his elk
00:12:25 --> 00:12:27 meat and I told him, I'm not eating meat.
00:12:27 --> 00:12:28 I'm saving the planet.
00:12:28 --> 00:12:31 And he kind of scoffed at me and said, no, you can eat good meat.
00:12:31 --> 00:12:32 It's good for the planet.
00:12:32 --> 00:12:33 And I didn't believe him.
00:12:33 --> 00:12:37 And Anyway, he sent me the TED talk by Alan Savory,
00:12:37 --> 00:12:41 and I sent, I sent him some other video that I thought was teaching me all the
00:12:41 --> 00:12:45 right things about meat and all, and, and, and understandably industry, industrial
00:12:45 --> 00:12:47 agriculture does have a lot of detrimental
00:12:48 --> 00:12:49 environmental issues.
00:12:49 --> 00:12:52 And so it's not, I'm not trying to throw the baby out the bathwater
00:12:52 --> 00:12:54 there, but he showed me that TED talk.
00:12:54 --> 00:12:58 It, it through, it reminded me of some stuff I heard from Patagonia long ago
00:12:58 --> 00:13:04 about some bison ranches and, and anyway, it, It got me thinking, and then the real
00:13:04 --> 00:13:10 fortuitous thing, kind of McKinley's bird moment, was when our partner James went to
00:13:10 --> 00:13:16 look at a a house listing near McKinley, and McKinley was the listing agent.
00:13:16 --> 00:13:19 So McKinley is showing this random guy named James.
00:13:20 --> 00:13:24 The house and happens to mention that he was accredited with the savory Institute.
00:13:24 --> 00:13:28 He didn't realize that James had just been down the rabbit hole of savory Institute.
00:13:29 --> 00:13:31 And then that connected, James called me afterward.
00:13:31 --> 00:13:34 Like he had seen an angel, which he was.
00:13:34 --> 00:13:37 If McKinley threw his hair back, you could see the angelic form
00:13:37 --> 00:13:39 that exists, you know?
00:13:39 --> 00:13:43 But anyway, we kind of chatted more and more over six months,
00:13:43 --> 00:13:43 got to know each other.
00:13:43 --> 00:13:45 Cause we really didn't, McKinley didn't know us.
00:13:46 --> 00:13:48 You know, and we didn't know McKinley and it was kind of a little bit of
00:13:48 --> 00:13:50 a dance, but it felt pretty good.
00:13:50 --> 00:13:52 And we decided let's buy some cattle.
00:13:52 --> 00:13:57 We bought three pair of heads three pair of cattle in June of 2021.
00:13:57 --> 00:14:02 And the week later we, and we, at the same time, we bought our first 150 broilers.
00:14:03 --> 00:14:06 And that kind of just kickstarted the whole thing.
00:14:06 --> 00:14:11 McKinley had posted previously on Facebook and a community saying,
00:14:11 --> 00:14:15 Hey, I want to try this agriculture is for generative agriculture.
00:14:15 --> 00:14:16 Did anyone have some land?
00:14:16 --> 00:14:20 And we really got connected to an amazing family that connected us to
00:14:20 --> 00:14:23 about 150 acres and for the first
00:14:23 --> 00:14:26 three years we had a, we had a free lease with them
00:14:27 --> 00:14:27 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh,
00:14:27 --> 00:14:29 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: We're now, we're now paying them a lease.
00:14:29 --> 00:14:32 We want to operate a profitable business, recognizing all true expenses.
00:14:33 --> 00:14:37 So, anyway, we're doing that now and it's, it's been a great thing, but
00:14:38 --> 00:14:41 my, my goal was never raising cattle.
00:14:41 --> 00:14:41 I.
00:14:42 --> 00:14:43 I love the open land.
00:14:43 --> 00:14:44 I love where we ranch.
00:14:45 --> 00:14:46 I've gone up here my whole life.
00:14:46 --> 00:14:50 My, you know, everyone's grandfather or great grandfather was a rancher,
00:14:50 --> 00:14:51 herder, farmer of some kind.
00:14:51 --> 00:14:54 And so I have that same connection to the land.
00:14:54 --> 00:14:58 But yeah, I came to it more from a environmental standpoint about
00:14:58 --> 00:15:03 healing landscapes and bringing back ecological functions to our, To our
00:15:03 --> 00:15:04 soil systems and our grasslands.
00:15:06 --> 00:15:09 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: So, very interesting journeys for both of
00:15:09 --> 00:15:11 you to get to where you are now.
00:15:11 --> 00:15:17 You know, I recall reading that about you being a vegan on your all's website.
00:15:18 --> 00:15:19 Mitch, how long were you a vegan, Mitch?
00:15:20 --> 00:15:21 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: Oh, just about a year and a half.
00:15:21 --> 00:15:23 Just enough to be dangerous and
00:15:23 --> 00:15:24 think I was doing the right thing.
00:15:24 --> 00:15:28 No, I, I, I respect people for different reasons making those decisions.
00:15:28 --> 00:15:32 I think you know, I, I think I was eating a lot of the wrong kind of meats.
00:15:32 --> 00:15:34 You know, I don't think a fast food burger is the same thing as
00:15:34 --> 00:15:36 the grass finished beef we have in
00:15:36 --> 00:15:37 our freezer right,
00:15:37 --> 00:15:37 now.
00:15:37 --> 00:15:43 And so, so, you know, I, I think there was some, some well intention behind that.
00:15:43 --> 00:15:45 And I think there's a lot of people who, who have those same and different
00:15:45 --> 00:15:49 intentions, but yeah, just, just probably about a year and a half there.
00:15:51 --> 00:15:53 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: which is an interesting journey and
00:15:53 --> 00:15:57 you know, people come to it for different reasons and whatever the
00:15:57 --> 00:16:00 reasons are, I cannot knock those.
00:16:00 --> 00:16:02 I think it's great we have different viewpoints and we're able
00:16:02 --> 00:16:04 to have discussions about them.
00:16:04 --> 00:16:08 I think my wife would very readily be a vegan.
00:16:08 --> 00:16:12 But she married someone who likes livestock and raises too many of
00:16:12 --> 00:16:13 them, and we have to eat them.
00:16:13 --> 00:16:14 So, you know, it's
00:16:14 --> 00:16:15 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: that's right.
00:16:15 --> 00:16:16 It's an inventory issue.
00:16:16 --> 00:16:17 Like, sweetheart, we,
00:16:17 --> 00:16:19 I can't, I don't know, what else are we going to do?
00:16:19 --> 00:16:23 You know, the, that, that vegan thing is, you know, we actually have,
00:16:23 --> 00:16:24 there's a, we have a great customer.
00:16:24 --> 00:16:26 I call her Vicky the vegan.
00:16:26 --> 00:16:30 And because she, she legitimately calls herself that she's a
00:16:30 --> 00:16:30 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, yes.
00:16:31 --> 00:16:32 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: but she came to our farm.
00:16:32 --> 00:16:34 She came to the park city farmer's market where we sell.
00:16:35 --> 00:16:38 And she asked about how we raise our birds and everything else.
00:16:39 --> 00:16:40 And she's like, you know what?
00:16:40 --> 00:16:42 I just haven't eaten chicken for 10, 20 years.
00:16:42 --> 00:16:45 I can't remember how long because it never makes me feel good.
00:16:46 --> 00:16:48 said, well, this is how we raise it.
00:16:48 --> 00:16:49 I'm not forcing you to.
00:16:49 --> 00:16:50 And she said, I'll try one.
00:16:50 --> 00:16:52 And then she went home that night and showed her husband.
00:16:52 --> 00:16:55 She said, look what I got at the market with you when you were out and about.
00:16:56 --> 00:16:57 And he pulls out his bag.
00:16:57 --> 00:16:59 He says, well, when I was at the market, I bought a chicken from him too.
00:16:59 --> 00:17:01 So they come home with two chickens
00:17:01 --> 00:17:02 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh yes.
00:17:02 --> 00:17:03 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: they were shopping separate.
00:17:03 --> 00:17:04 And anyway, she comes back every year.
00:17:05 --> 00:17:08 And you know, the, the, how it's raised and the nutritional value
00:17:08 --> 00:17:10 of that meat is so important.
00:17:10 --> 00:17:13 We, We, spend a lot of time testing our meat every year.
00:17:14 --> 00:17:18 And educating our customers about the nutrient density of our meat compared to
00:17:18 --> 00:17:23 other to, to compare to other practices and other ranches not to necessarily
00:17:23 --> 00:17:26 make ourselves better to just make sure people feel informed about what
00:17:26 --> 00:17:29 they're putting into their body and what, and the value they're buying.
00:17:30 --> 00:17:30 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Yeah.
00:17:30 --> 00:17:34 I think that piece right there, that connection to where your food comes from
00:17:34 --> 00:17:38 is so important and we're so disconnected.
00:17:38 --> 00:17:42 I mean, I know I get a lot of my food through the McDonald's drive thru and far
00:17:42 --> 00:17:44 as I know, that's where it comes from.
00:17:44 --> 00:17:48 So it's so important that we, we go beyond that and we're,
00:17:48 --> 00:17:51 we're, Going out to those farms.
00:17:51 --> 00:17:53 That's what I love about agro tourism.
00:17:53 --> 00:17:57 Getting that connection back to the land and where our food comes from
00:17:57 --> 00:18:01 and to understand what's going on for the consumer as well as the farmer.
00:18:01 --> 00:18:02 I think it's really important.
00:18:03 --> 00:18:07 Now we, we talked a little bit about both your journeys, but you all came
00:18:07 --> 00:18:11 together and Mitch, you mentioned this a little bit ago, how you all met and then
00:18:11 --> 00:18:13 you decided to start a ranch together.
00:18:15 --> 00:18:15 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: That's right.
00:18:16 --> 00:18:19 And I always think about it, that we kind of came from three different viewpoints
00:18:19 --> 00:18:21 and McKinley chime in here, please, too.
00:18:21 --> 00:18:26 But, you know, from my perspective, I came from an from an environmental.
00:18:27 --> 00:18:31 Specifically, James came in from a nutritional health perspective a
00:18:31 --> 00:18:35 little bit and McKinley, I don't know how you would define why, how
00:18:35 --> 00:18:38 you came into it a little more from you had more of the agricultural
00:18:38 --> 00:18:40 background and ranching background.
00:18:40 --> 00:18:41 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: a certain degree.
00:18:41 --> 00:18:41 Yeah.
00:18:41 --> 00:18:42 I don't know.
00:18:42 --> 00:18:46 It's just kind of, I, I, I truly, I just, I feel like I just meant
00:18:46 --> 00:18:47 that's what I'm supposed to do
00:18:48 --> 00:18:49 at this point.
00:18:49 --> 00:18:53 I mean, I, I, I love the, I love the environmental standpoint.
00:18:54 --> 00:18:59 And, you know, I think, you know, I, I feel like we, Mitch and I talked to
00:18:59 --> 00:19:03 so many people who don't think that there's any money in agriculture.
00:19:03 --> 00:19:04 And that's really concerning,
00:19:04 --> 00:19:05 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, that is.
00:19:05 --> 00:19:05 Yeah.
00:19:06 --> 00:19:08 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: from just like a future parent
00:19:08 --> 00:19:12 and parent standpoint of like, yeah, there's no future.
00:19:12 --> 00:19:15 And if there's no future in agriculture, I mean, it's a, it's
00:19:15 --> 00:19:17 problematic 100 years in the future.
00:19:18 --> 00:19:20 And so I think we're, we're kind of on a mission to, to show like,
00:19:20 --> 00:19:23 no, you can, you can make it and you don't need to be massive.
00:19:24 --> 00:19:24 It'd
00:19:24 --> 00:19:26 be this massive ranch or anything like that.
00:19:26 --> 00:19:31 And so, and then also making it work for our community and our communities.
00:19:32 --> 00:19:34 Highly supportive of us.
00:19:34 --> 00:19:36 I mean, that's the most inspiring and energizing part,
00:19:36 --> 00:19:37 I think of the whole thing.
00:19:38 --> 00:19:44 And so, yeah, I, I, I don't know what viewpoint I came through to, to
00:19:44 --> 00:19:49 go, to try to figure out, it just, there's something pushing me to
00:19:49 --> 00:19:50 do it and I don't know what it is.
00:19:51 --> 00:19:53 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: something that's strong with us, Cal, though,
00:19:53 --> 00:19:56 is that the fact that where we ranch is in the Kamas Valley.
00:19:56 --> 00:20:00 It's east of Park City, Utah, about 25 minutes east of Park City.
00:20:01 --> 00:20:03 And if people have heard of Park City, it's a.
00:20:04 --> 00:20:06 It's a very well to do.
00:20:06 --> 00:20:08 It's the wealthiest county in Utah.
00:20:09 --> 00:20:12 It's kind of like an Aspen or a Tahoe or Vail or
00:20:12 --> 00:20:13 something.
00:20:14 --> 00:20:17 And so there's a lot of pressure on our valley for they always say
00:20:17 --> 00:20:19 the millionaire, the billionaires push out the millionaires.
00:20:20 --> 00:20:23 And, and, you know, that's nothing wrong if they want to come here, but it's kind
00:20:23 --> 00:20:27 of about how the land is getting developed in that process and the land values.
00:20:28 --> 00:20:29 There's some challenges around that.
00:20:29 --> 00:20:34 And we want to give ourselves and any other producer the opportunity
00:20:34 --> 00:20:38 for their land to stay profitable, to stay in their family and to
00:20:38 --> 00:20:40 move on to the next generation.
00:20:40 --> 00:20:44 And so we have a lot of real, still beautiful, open landscapes, and
00:20:44 --> 00:20:50 we want our best to help show the profitability productivity in the
00:20:50 --> 00:20:52 practices and principles that we follow.
00:20:53 --> 00:20:54 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, yeah.
00:20:54 --> 00:20:57 That's that is a, a problem.
00:20:57 --> 00:21:02 So many people are dealing with that farmland is getting sold and developed
00:21:02 --> 00:21:04 and they're not making any more farmland.
00:21:05 --> 00:21:05 So.
00:21:07 --> 00:21:10 And like you said there, if you're not profitability, if you're not
00:21:10 --> 00:21:12 profitable, you're not sustainable.
00:21:12 --> 00:21:16 So you've got to have that profitability mindset so that,
00:21:16 --> 00:21:18 so you can be here in 10 years.
00:21:18 --> 00:21:21 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: Yeah, in our country, it's funny
00:21:21 --> 00:21:26 you say that, if profitability means the land stays open,
00:21:27 --> 00:21:27 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh yeah.
00:21:28 --> 00:21:29 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: because it, I mean, then the next
00:21:29 --> 00:21:31 generation's interested in it.
00:21:31 --> 00:21:32 It's like, oh, you
00:21:32 --> 00:21:33 made money, you made money doing this.
00:21:33 --> 00:21:38 And it feels like those two things are directly correlated that whether the
00:21:38 --> 00:21:42 land has declined through practices or because land values have climbed
00:21:42 --> 00:21:43 and things are still the same.
00:21:44 --> 00:21:48 If the profitability isn't there, it seems like the land.
00:21:48 --> 00:21:53 At this point in the history of our country, it just disappears for
00:21:53 --> 00:21:54 an economic engine.
00:21:54 --> 00:21:58 It's very I don't know what, I don't know what, how to critique that or what to
00:21:58 --> 00:22:00 say about that, but it's kind of scary.
00:22:02 --> 00:22:02 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Yeah.
00:22:02 --> 00:22:04 I'm not sure what the solution there is.
00:22:04 --> 00:22:08 Hopefully this podcast helping share how other people are doing things,
00:22:09 --> 00:22:12 encourage producers, take that next step on their journey can help some
00:22:12 --> 00:22:14 people be a little bit more profitable.
00:22:15 --> 00:22:19 Do a little bit more sustainable or regionality practices.
00:22:20 --> 00:22:24 Y'all got together, you started this farm you bought a few pair of cows
00:22:24 --> 00:22:31 and broilers, you, you, you were able to find some land to use and did you
00:22:31 --> 00:22:35 have to do anything to get ready or did you just, were you able to just go
00:22:35 --> 00:22:37 buy some cows and buy get some chicks?
00:22:40 --> 00:22:42 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: Yeah we you know, we bought some electric
00:22:42 --> 00:22:47 fencing equipment and we had to fix up a few fences, but that was really it.
00:22:47 --> 00:22:49 And being creative.
00:22:49 --> 00:22:54 And then we, we also, we, we are indebted to Joel Salatin's Lego handbook
00:22:54 --> 00:22:57 of how to build structure structures.
00:22:57 --> 00:23:03 So we built a Salatin style chicken tractor and that was about it at the time.
00:23:03 --> 00:23:04 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: Yeah, good fences.
00:23:04 --> 00:23:06 The, the land we were running was historically.
00:23:06 --> 00:23:08 cattle, ran cattle
00:23:08 --> 00:23:11 on it, kind of in a continuous grainies grazing model.
00:23:11 --> 00:23:15 So like McKinley said, the fences needed some tightening and a little fixing,
00:23:15 --> 00:23:22 but we I think, I think starting with six cattle was just a godsend for us
00:23:22 --> 00:23:27 for a few reasons, because we started in 2021, which in Utah in the Western
00:23:27 --> 00:23:29 United States was a drought year.
00:23:29 --> 00:23:29 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh
00:23:30 --> 00:23:33 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: So, you know, operating at that time was really on
00:23:33 --> 00:23:38 45 acres and to only have six cattle on 45 acres was really fortuitous.
00:23:38 --> 00:23:41 So we weren't, we weren't having to sell off anything.
00:23:41 --> 00:23:45 You know, we, we really did tight daily management, daily moves.
00:23:45 --> 00:23:47 I mean, six cattle, we had them on.
00:23:47 --> 00:23:50 What, McKinley, third acre or quarter acre paddocks.
00:23:50 --> 00:23:53 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: An 8th and a, and like a 3rd.
00:23:53 --> 00:23:55 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: I mean, enough to keep them comfortable.
00:23:55 --> 00:23:55 Like
00:23:55 --> 00:23:58 it, they were tiny and we looked silly.
00:23:58 --> 00:24:04 We looked silly at some level moving this small little herd every single day.
00:24:04 --> 00:24:06 Relative to our community, that's not the common
00:24:06 --> 00:24:07 practice.
00:24:07 --> 00:24:08 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: right,
00:24:08 --> 00:24:10 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: but there's a good way for us to cut our teeth
00:24:10 --> 00:24:16 and, and figure out a few things and you know, to swing from that dry year
00:24:16 --> 00:24:21 to then having two of the largest snowfalls on record which is where we
00:24:21 --> 00:24:24 get most of our precipitation from was.
00:24:24 --> 00:24:27 Kind of a good, good experience on both sides of the
00:24:27 --> 00:24:28 spectrum.
00:24:29 --> 00:24:33 But yeah, that first year was that first year was pretty interesting that way.
00:24:33 --> 00:24:38 Just we didn't have, when you have six cows, you kind of look at each other
00:24:38 --> 00:24:42 and you say, okay, where are we going to make money for the next two years?
00:24:42 --> 00:24:45 Because those little heifers, those little bulls aren't going to.
00:24:46 --> 00:24:50 Turn into anything for 24, 26 more months, you know,
00:24:50 --> 00:24:56 like, so how as a startup, do you make money in the ranching business
00:24:56 --> 00:25:00 and chickens were going to be our profit center in the short term to
00:25:00 --> 00:25:02 actually get some cashflow going.
00:25:02 --> 00:25:06 And that's really why James pretty much on his own bought 150 chickens.
00:25:06 --> 00:25:06 And then.
00:25:06 --> 00:25:10 After, after he ordered the chickens, we had to build, we didn't build a brooder.
00:25:10 --> 00:25:11 We threw them in a shed
00:25:11 --> 00:25:12 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh yes.
00:25:12 --> 00:25:15 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: And then and we were building the Salton
00:25:15 --> 00:25:17 tractors while they were brooding.
00:25:18 --> 00:25:20 And that is not what I recommend ever.
00:25:20 --> 00:25:21 But that's what we did.
00:25:21 --> 00:25:27 And, you know, I, I don't think this is a, a unique quote on any ranch,
00:25:27 --> 00:25:31 let alone a startup, but our, our unofficial slogan is we'll figure it out.
00:25:32 --> 00:25:33 And you know.
00:25:34 --> 00:25:35 That's, that's not a bad thing either.
00:25:37 --> 00:25:39 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: You know, Mitch, I, I think the first time I
00:25:39 --> 00:25:43 raised some brooders, I decided I was going to do a few pastured poultry.
00:25:44 --> 00:25:50 I think I was needed to move them out as I was finishing up my Salatin pen so
00:25:50 --> 00:25:52 I could get them moved out, you know?
00:25:52 --> 00:25:53 So I do get that.
00:25:53 --> 00:25:53 Yeah.
00:25:54 --> 00:25:54 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: Yeah,
00:25:55 --> 00:25:58 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: So, and I think you bring up a great point there.
00:25:58 --> 00:26:00 Cattle's not a quick profit.
00:26:00 --> 00:26:04 You're not going to put some cows out there and say, Oh, this is
00:26:04 --> 00:26:06 where our income's coming in.
00:26:06 --> 00:26:08 It takes a long time to get them to market.
00:26:09 --> 00:26:13 So settling on chickens, I think was a very good move, but
00:26:13 --> 00:26:14 how did that go for you all?
00:26:15 --> 00:26:20 Were you able to, to grow them and keep them alive and get them to market?
00:26:21 --> 00:26:23 Because that's the first part before you get to
00:26:23 --> 00:26:24 market, you got to keep them alive.
00:26:25 --> 00:26:25 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: Yeah.
00:26:26 --> 00:26:30 The, the chickens, we, we had, we've, you know, for that 1st
00:26:30 --> 00:26:33 group we had some predator issues.
00:26:33 --> 00:26:34 We
00:26:34 --> 00:26:39 used just normal chicken wire and we were in a riparian area and kind
00:26:39 --> 00:26:42 of bordering wilderness area in Utah, which means there's a lot of.
00:26:43 --> 00:26:44 Skunks and raccoons.
00:26:45 --> 00:26:48 So we had a, we had a predator event and probably killed 10,
00:26:48 --> 00:26:49 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh
00:26:49 --> 00:26:50 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: The first night.
00:26:51 --> 00:26:51 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, no.
00:26:53 --> 00:26:54 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: but then we figured out how to
00:26:55 --> 00:26:57 take care of that and then we didn't have any loss after that.
00:26:57 --> 00:27:00 So we, we were, but yeah, no, we had that experience.
00:27:00 --> 00:27:04 It was really the, the, the following year that we had a
00:27:04 --> 00:27:07 lot more issues with mortality.
00:27:07 --> 00:27:08 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: Yeah.
00:27:08 --> 00:27:09 And, and 150 birds.
00:27:09 --> 00:27:11 This is your question on the market.
00:27:11 --> 00:27:16 I mean, we were 100, we had zero mortality in the brooder stage.
00:27:17 --> 00:27:21 We, I think we finished probably 120 birds, McKinley.
00:27:21 --> 00:27:22 Honestly, I can't remember the exact number.
00:27:22 --> 00:27:24 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: Yeah, something like
00:27:24 --> 00:27:24 that.
00:27:24 --> 00:27:25 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: you know, we, we slaughtered him in
00:27:25 --> 00:27:27 the field over two days, highly
00:27:27 --> 00:27:32 inefficient, But But we got it done and 120 birds, that's family and friends.
00:27:32 --> 00:27:33 That's pretty easy to move at some level.
00:27:33 --> 00:27:37 Like, you know, we had enough of a community at that point.
00:27:37 --> 00:27:41 We had enough fans and family that we, we could sell those pretty quick.
00:27:41 --> 00:27:41 We didn't have to get her.
00:27:42 --> 00:27:43 We didn't have to have it all figured out.
00:27:43 --> 00:27:45 So that first year was a good test run.
00:27:46 --> 00:27:48 Profitability doesn't really exist, especially with
00:27:48 --> 00:27:50 three partners at 120 birds,
00:27:50 --> 00:27:51 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: No, it doesn't.
00:27:51 --> 00:27:52 Yeah.
00:27:52 --> 00:27:55 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: but what it did do for us is it Put
00:27:55 --> 00:27:59 us in a place in the community as pastured poultry producers, which
00:27:59 --> 00:28:03 are few and far between in Utah, let alone probably, you know, relative to the
00:28:03 --> 00:28:05 number of birds produced in this country.
00:28:05 --> 00:28:07 It's very small, but especially in Utah.
00:28:08 --> 00:28:08 And so.
00:28:09 --> 00:28:15 By us putting us positioned as a pasture poultry producer especially in
00:28:15 --> 00:28:19 park city, where they are an affluent community who spend a lot of money
00:28:19 --> 00:28:21 on their health and on healthy food.
00:28:22 --> 00:28:26 We got our name recognition and a brand established as that.
00:28:27 --> 00:28:30 And so we've been doing that year over year.
00:28:30 --> 00:28:34 And now all of a sudden, when we want to sell beef, we already have an email
00:28:34 --> 00:28:36 list of 700 people.
00:28:37 --> 00:28:40 And we've got people asking us every time we're selling chicken, do you sell beef?
00:28:40 --> 00:28:43 And we just say, well, hold, hold on and we'll get you there, you know?
00:28:43 --> 00:28:49 And so it was very helpful that we had established that base through a unique
00:28:49 --> 00:28:52 value proposition as, as poultry.
00:28:53 --> 00:28:58 But McKinley kind of hinted at it, but the next year we we
00:28:58 --> 00:28:59 decided to grow our operation.
00:29:00 --> 00:29:04 But in growing our operation, we we actually, well, I guess it was not
00:29:04 --> 00:29:05 the next year, but the year after,
00:29:06 --> 00:29:14 2023, where we had a predation event of 190 birds out of 240 birds killed by
00:29:14 --> 00:29:15 a skunk, a
00:29:15 --> 00:29:20 baby skunk, a young skunk, and going into 2024, we barely
00:29:20 --> 00:29:21 wanted to do chickens at all.
00:29:22 --> 00:29:22 Because it
00:29:22 --> 00:29:27 was just so traumatic for a lot of reasons and not just the overall, our
00:29:27 --> 00:29:31 mortality rate last year on chickens was 41 percent for a host of reasons.
00:29:31 --> 00:29:32 It was horrible.
00:29:32 --> 00:29:32 We
00:29:33 --> 00:29:33 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, wow.
00:29:33 --> 00:29:35 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: out of 1500 birds.
00:29:35 --> 00:29:38 41 percent never made it to a customer.
00:29:40 --> 00:29:45 But we kind of look back and we just said, our community knows us for our
00:29:45 --> 00:29:52 poultry if anything else, we need to at least continue that brand recognition
00:29:52 --> 00:29:57 and marketing effort, but our customers also really want this product where we
00:29:57 --> 00:29:59 already sell out of it too fast as it is.
00:29:59 --> 00:30:02 And so it's kind of been an interesting place.
00:30:02 --> 00:30:05 A lot of people know us as the chicken people, even though.
00:30:05 --> 00:30:10 I think we kind of consider ourselves as equally cattle people, but to our
00:30:10 --> 00:30:11 end consumer, it's more of the chicken.
00:30:13 --> 00:30:16 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: And that may have been their first connection with you.
00:30:16 --> 00:30:18 And then the beef's coming on a little bit later.
00:30:19 --> 00:30:21 Now, one thing I think I read on your website, you guys
00:30:22 --> 00:30:24 are non GMO and soy free.
00:30:26 --> 00:30:26 Have
00:30:26 --> 00:30:28 you been doing that with your chickens the whole time?
00:30:29 --> 00:30:32 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: want me to go on this McKinley?
00:30:32 --> 00:30:34 I've, well, maybe one thing
00:30:34 --> 00:30:35 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: no, you got it.
00:30:35 --> 00:30:35 You know it.
00:30:37 --> 00:30:39 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: we can talk about later, but you know, we've
00:30:39 --> 00:30:42 kind of tried to figure out divisions of labor a little bit this year.
00:30:42 --> 00:30:44 And so, I spent more time in the chicken world.
00:30:44 --> 00:30:46 McKinley spent more time in the cattle world.
00:30:47 --> 00:30:50 We still, we still share chores occasionally and all that, but it's,
00:30:50 --> 00:30:54 it's been a little helpful, I think, for us to be able to go a little deeper
00:30:54 --> 00:30:56 and a little more on that journey.
00:30:56 --> 00:30:58 We've always been non GMO.
00:30:58 --> 00:31:02 We had organic our first year, but we had corn and soy in it.
00:31:02 --> 00:31:06 People love the organic label and the non GMO label, but then, you know,
00:31:06 --> 00:31:11 our, our fancy friends who like to buy our food, ask for non, non GMO.
00:31:11 --> 00:31:12 Corn and non soy,
00:31:13 --> 00:31:18 you know, and for many listeners wondering why it's primarily because of the omega
00:31:18 --> 00:31:21 sixes that are present in corn and soy.
00:31:21 --> 00:31:25 They're not bad for you, but in the amounts that we consume
00:31:25 --> 00:31:28 them in our American diet, there's a lot of corn and soy.
00:31:28 --> 00:31:33 And so for us we said, well, let's try a corn free, soy free feed.
00:31:33 --> 00:31:34 So we bought.
00:31:34 --> 00:31:38 We went all in on organic, corn free, soy free, non GMO.
00:31:38 --> 00:31:41 I think we had every label you think someone would want to pay
00:31:41 --> 00:31:43 a premium, and it backfired.
00:31:44 --> 00:31:48 It backfired horribly, and that led to a lot of the death of our birds last year,
00:31:48 --> 00:31:49 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, yes.
00:31:50 --> 00:31:53 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: because For a host of reasons, but a couple
00:31:53 --> 00:31:59 of specific reasons would be that the soy replacement with sesame seed, you
00:31:59 --> 00:32:02 have to be careful with sesame seed because it's high in phytic acid, which
00:32:02 --> 00:32:04 compromises calcium nutrient absorption.
00:32:05 --> 00:32:07 If your birds don't have calcium and they're a fast
00:32:07 --> 00:32:08 growing bird, like a Cornish
00:32:08 --> 00:32:10 cross, they could get rickets.
00:32:11 --> 00:32:13 So we had birds in our.
00:32:14 --> 00:32:18 Mobile structures with rickets essentially unable to move themselves.
00:32:18 --> 00:32:23 So Cal Hill, here we are trying to be this holistic humane operation, but
00:32:23 --> 00:32:29 somehow in the process, we got our birds unable to move themselves in the pasture.
00:32:29 --> 00:32:33 And so I kind of jokingly and saddeningly would call ourselves a mobile CAFO,
00:32:34 --> 00:32:38 where we were just, we, we, it, it's traumatic to talk about, but
00:32:38 --> 00:32:41 we had to like, Hand move a hundred
00:32:41 --> 00:32:44 birds every day, 24 feet in the field.
00:32:44 --> 00:32:45 It was not our best moment.
00:32:45 --> 00:32:49 It was frustrating because we were trying to do our best to help our animals.
00:32:50 --> 00:32:53 And I think we over prioritize the needs of our customer
00:32:53 --> 00:32:54 over the needs of the animal.
00:32:55 --> 00:32:55 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, yes.
00:32:56 --> 00:32:58 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: so this season we went back to
00:32:58 --> 00:33:00 being actually still soy free.
00:33:01 --> 00:33:04 But corn, but having a local non GMO corn sourced.
00:33:05 --> 00:33:09 We worked with local millers, instead of buying feed from California.
00:33:09 --> 00:33:12 We bought feed once last year and it sat and oxidized by the end
00:33:12 --> 00:33:13 of the year and wasn't as good.
00:33:14 --> 00:33:17 This year we said we want fresh milled feed, no older than 30 days.
00:33:18 --> 00:33:22 So we always had fresh feed coming in, locally sourced.
00:33:22 --> 00:33:24 More connection to the growers and millers.
00:33:25 --> 00:33:27 And yeah, our mortality rate was 2.
00:33:27 --> 00:33:28 6 percent this year.
00:33:28 --> 00:33:29 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, very good.
00:33:29 --> 00:33:30 Very good.
00:33:30 --> 00:33:32 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: Anyway, that's a long answer to your question
00:33:32 --> 00:33:36 about being corn free or being soy free, but that's the context.
00:33:36 --> 00:33:40 I think if you want to be organic, at least in Utah, you've got to
00:33:40 --> 00:33:46 be buying inputs from Asia, which for us in our holistic context,
00:33:46 --> 00:33:47 that's not where we want to be.
00:33:48 --> 00:33:51 So it's a little bit of our background there.
00:33:51 --> 00:33:53 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: And Mitch, really appreciate you sharing that
00:33:53 --> 00:33:59 struggle of 2023 because wherever a person is on this journey,
00:33:59 --> 00:34:03 Everything's just not peaches and cream.
00:34:03 --> 00:34:03 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: No,
00:34:04 --> 00:34:07 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: You're gonna, you're gonna, have some, some growing.
00:34:08 --> 00:34:10 I can't even think right word, but you're going to have some
00:34:10 --> 00:34:14 issues that you're going to have to overcome, whatever they may be.
00:34:14 --> 00:34:18 You know, I always think back and I don't even know where I've heard
00:34:18 --> 00:34:23 this, but, and it, It's the, you know, like when a rocket's headed towards
00:34:23 --> 00:34:27 the spaceships head towards the moon, you know, they're making minor
00:34:27 --> 00:34:29 adjustments all the time to the course.
00:34:29 --> 00:34:33 Every once in a while they're checking are we still aimed for the right spot.
00:34:33 --> 00:34:37 That visual for me just really says it in what we're doing.
00:34:37 --> 00:34:43 We're looking at this angle that's very complex because as anyone from the Savory
00:34:43 --> 00:34:47 Institute will tell us, you know, as we look at this whole system, it's not an
00:34:47 --> 00:34:52 easy, simple, We're looking at that and we're trying to get there, but we're
00:34:52 --> 00:34:56 going to have to make adjustments over time to figure out how to get there.
00:34:56 --> 00:35:00 So I appreciate you sharing your struggle because so often we get the highlight
00:35:00 --> 00:35:06 reel on Instagram and it's important that people realize we do have these struggles.
00:35:06 --> 00:35:07 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: Yeah.
00:35:07 --> 00:35:10 the the we try to be a.
00:35:11 --> 00:35:12 Edutainment on social
00:35:12 --> 00:35:13 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh yes.
00:35:13 --> 00:35:15 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: We try to be transparent though.
00:35:15 --> 00:35:18 And I think that's one of the benefits and blessings of our, the
00:35:18 --> 00:35:22 way we're organized is that me, McKinley and James aren't family.
00:35:23 --> 00:35:25 We're not a fourth generation ranch.
00:35:25 --> 00:35:26 That's maybe in the red right now.
00:35:27 --> 00:35:30 And there's a little bit of pride and protection to the
00:35:30 --> 00:35:32 family name to not want to admit.
00:35:32 --> 00:35:34 The things that aren't going well.
00:35:34 --> 00:35:36 We show our financials.
00:35:36 --> 00:35:40 If anyone asks, I have a live spreadsheet of all of the
00:35:40 --> 00:35:44 expenses this year associated with our poultry, we'll share our, we'll share
00:35:44 --> 00:35:49 our, we'll share our sales with our customers or anyone who wants to know.
00:35:50 --> 00:35:52 So to us, it's so valid.
00:35:52 --> 00:35:56 It's so valuable to have the education and transparency in
00:35:56 --> 00:35:59 your operation, because if.
00:36:00 --> 00:36:04 I am so blessed to, we are collectively, but I've really been going to
00:36:04 --> 00:36:06 the APA conference every year.
00:36:06 --> 00:36:09 The American Pastured Poultry Producer Association
00:36:10 --> 00:36:10 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, yes.
00:36:11 --> 00:36:14 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: They have an amazing community forum group online.
00:36:14 --> 00:36:16 It's 50 bucks to be a member or 60 bucks.
00:36:16 --> 00:36:17 And I mean, wow.
00:36:17 --> 00:36:22 Holy cow, I've easily saved a thousand dollars in, in
00:36:22 --> 00:36:24 saving chickens life and cost.
00:36:24 --> 00:36:25 I mean, it's, it's so valuable.
00:36:25 --> 00:36:29 I'll be speaking at it this year, actually, about some
00:36:29 --> 00:36:30 of our learnings from 2023.
00:36:31 --> 00:36:33 But the, the community around.
00:36:34 --> 00:36:37 Agriculture is really important and we just feel really fortunate
00:36:37 --> 00:36:39 to, to have all that support.
00:36:41 --> 00:36:41 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, excellent.
00:36:42 --> 00:36:43 On the poultry.
00:36:43 --> 00:36:48 I raised one group before a pasture poultry and that's all I did, but
00:36:48 --> 00:36:51 actually I have a few chicks in the brooder right now that I'm
00:36:51 --> 00:36:52 going to do.
00:36:52 --> 00:36:56 It's kind of late in the season, but I have a little bit better,
00:36:56 --> 00:36:58 better weather than you all do.
00:36:58 --> 00:36:59 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: Yeah.
00:37:00 --> 00:37:00 Yeah.
00:37:00 --> 00:37:03 It snowed yesterday here, so we're not putting anything out in the field.
00:37:03 --> 00:37:04 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Yeah, yeah.
00:37:04 --> 00:37:06 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: One thing to, I'll tell this to the Atlanta listener
00:37:06 --> 00:37:11 who cares, but Cornish cross don't do as well at five above 5, 000 feet and we
00:37:11 --> 00:37:12 should have known better.
00:37:13 --> 00:37:14 We're at 6, 500 feet.
00:37:14 --> 00:37:18 So, So, we go, we went freedom ranger this year and we strongly
00:37:18 --> 00:37:19 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, yes.
00:37:20 --> 00:37:21 And that worked out well for you.
00:37:21 --> 00:37:22 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: Fantastic.
00:37:22 --> 00:37:26 Super resilient to the cold weather, the warm weather, the fluctuations,
00:37:27 --> 00:37:28 just a little more personality.
00:37:28 --> 00:37:31 So there's, there's a, we really enjoy the Freedom Ranger.
00:37:31 --> 00:37:32 The meat quality was great.
00:37:32 --> 00:37:37 Took a little longer to get to, to wait, but but we made up for it in a
00:37:37 --> 00:37:39 lot, in a And the ones that survived.
00:37:39 --> 00:37:40 So,
00:37:41 --> 00:37:44 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Are you looking at like a 10 week or 12 week
00:37:44 --> 00:37:46 growth period versus eight weeks or
00:37:46 --> 00:37:48 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: yeah, originally we thought we'd do
00:37:48 --> 00:37:51 10 weeks on the roosters and 11 and 12 weeks on the hens.
00:37:51 --> 00:37:53 We ended up slaughtering all around 11
00:37:54 --> 00:37:54 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh,
00:37:54 --> 00:37:55 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: worked out well.
00:37:55 --> 00:37:56 That, that
00:37:56 --> 00:37:59 was a, that was the, our average weight was about just under four and a half
00:37:59 --> 00:38:01 pounds of dressed weight on whole birds.
00:38:01 --> 00:38:02 So
00:38:02 --> 00:38:03 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Very good.
00:38:04 --> 00:38:08 Did you notice did you notice when you compare the feed intake
00:38:08 --> 00:38:12 for your Freedom Rangers to feed intake of your Cornish Cross?
00:38:13 --> 00:38:17 Was there a big difference even though you're keeping them 1.
00:38:17 --> 00:38:19 5 times as long?
00:38:19 --> 00:38:20 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: Yeah, we, we know,
00:38:23 --> 00:38:28 we noticed that you know, it's about 12 to 13 pounds on a Cornish and then for our
00:38:28 --> 00:38:32 freedoms, it was about 17 or 18 pounds per
00:38:32 --> 00:38:33 bird for the life of the bird.
00:38:34 --> 00:38:36 So it does add up.
00:38:36 --> 00:38:36 And.
00:38:37 --> 00:38:38 They're ravenous.
00:38:38 --> 00:38:41 I mean, the challenge for us is we don't live on the farm.
00:38:41 --> 00:38:42 We don't live on the ranch.
00:38:42 --> 00:38:46 So ideally, you can feed birds twice in a day, at least.
00:38:47 --> 00:38:50 And that kind of helps them manage their consumption habits a little bit.
00:38:51 --> 00:38:52 But because we are off farm.
00:38:53 --> 00:38:57 When we go, we give them the feed in the mid morning and they're
00:38:57 --> 00:38:59 pretty ravenous if they didn't get
00:38:59 --> 00:39:04 enough the night before and we're trying to avoid the ravenous feeding because
00:39:04 --> 00:39:07 we don't want them to be scratching each other, injuring each other, creating
00:39:07 --> 00:39:10 blood because then they peck the blood, then they get the blood, they like
00:39:10 --> 00:39:14 the taste, you know, it's a more, it's a, it's a cannibalistic world out there.
00:39:14 --> 00:39:18 So, We ended up trying to give them more than they needed every day.
00:39:19 --> 00:39:23 So our feed management was a little tricky that way because we don't live on farm.
00:39:23 --> 00:39:26 But yeah, and we don't do like soaked feed.
00:39:26 --> 00:39:30 Soaked feed would also help with saving amount of feed you give them.
00:39:30 --> 00:39:34 If you let it ferment for 24 hours, it unlocks more of the nutrients.
00:39:34 --> 00:39:37 It expands in their gut with water as well.
00:39:37 --> 00:39:39 So they don't have to eat as much that way.
00:39:39 --> 00:39:41 But anyway
00:39:41 --> 00:39:41 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Yeah.
00:39:41 --> 00:39:42 Very interesting.
00:39:42 --> 00:39:44 It reminds me of myself at a buffet.
00:39:45 --> 00:39:46 I try to avoid them now,
00:39:46 --> 00:39:47 mitch_1_10-30-2024_090650: yeah, yeah.
00:39:49 --> 00:39:51 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: McKinley, we've left you out just a little
00:39:51 --> 00:39:53 bit talking about these chickens.
00:39:53 --> 00:39:55 Let's, let's talk about y'all's cattle.
00:39:56 --> 00:40:02 What, obviously I have to ask what breed you all went with and how's the
00:40:02 --> 00:40:04 cattle portion of your farm going?
00:40:05 --> 00:40:06 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: You know, the cows are, they're
00:40:06 --> 00:40:09 just a lot less maintenance than the, than the poultry.
00:40:09 --> 00:40:09 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh yes.
00:40:09 --> 00:40:10 Yeah.
00:40:10 --> 00:40:12 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: They're, they're part of
00:40:12 --> 00:40:14 the family at this point.
00:40:14 --> 00:40:17 But yeah, we went with The three we bought were just kind of conventional.
00:40:18 --> 00:40:20 One was a baldy cow.
00:40:20 --> 00:40:23 One was a, a Simmental Angus mix.
00:40:23 --> 00:40:25 And then the other one was just a black Angus.
00:40:25 --> 00:40:30 But after talking to, you know, Alan Williams, he, he made a recommendation
00:40:30 --> 00:40:35 of looking at At least the closest in our area that was kind of
00:40:35 --> 00:40:37 bonafide was looking at 5L Red Angus.
00:40:37 --> 00:40:41 So we ended up getting some Red Angus cattle that their
00:40:41 --> 00:40:43 phenotypes kind of a little bit.
00:40:45 --> 00:40:47 On the smaller side of moderate
00:40:48 --> 00:40:51 frame, frame cattle, and they're, they look like refrigerators
00:40:51 --> 00:40:57 turned on their sides and just very thrifty, their capacity to
00:40:57 --> 00:41:01 eat grass is just unbelievable.
00:41:01 --> 00:41:06 And so, we ended up going that route and then we recently just bought some
00:41:06 --> 00:41:10 baldies and black Angus because it's relatively difficult to find cattle at the
00:41:10 --> 00:41:11 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, yeah.
00:41:11 --> 00:41:13 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: We're really looking to grow the herd.
00:41:13 --> 00:41:17 So we bought, we bought 10 more heifers just recently.
00:41:17 --> 00:41:21 And so, yeah, that was kind of the breed we, we, we like we're not
00:41:21 --> 00:41:23 really attached to a breed though.
00:41:23 --> 00:41:28 We're more looking at the phenotypes and you know, at least what we've had success
00:41:28 --> 00:41:33 with for our operation, we just don't do super well with framey cattle with
00:41:33 --> 00:41:34 moving them every day.
00:41:34 --> 00:41:37 They just don't seem to put on the weight and the mom seemed
00:41:37 --> 00:41:38 to struggle a little bit more.
00:41:38 --> 00:41:39 Yeah.
00:41:39 --> 00:41:44 And so we, yeah, that's kind of, that's kind of the route we went,
00:41:44 --> 00:41:46 but we're, we're open to any breed.
00:41:46 --> 00:41:51 If they look and operate the right way, we don't have any, any qualms with them.
00:41:51 --> 00:41:52 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, yeah.
00:41:52 --> 00:41:54 That form and function so much more important than breed,
00:41:55 --> 00:41:59 you know, but just as my questions on every episode we
00:41:59 --> 00:42:00 get so wrapped up in breed.
00:42:00 --> 00:42:01 So yeah, very true.
00:42:02 --> 00:42:04 So you all have been doing this long enough.
00:42:04 --> 00:42:06 You have finished some of your own calves.
00:42:07 --> 00:42:07 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: We have.
00:42:07 --> 00:42:08 Yes,
00:42:08 --> 00:42:09 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: How, how did that go?
00:42:09 --> 00:42:14 Because grass did, I assume you grass finish and grass finish can be a little
00:42:14 --> 00:42:16 tricky till you get it figured out.
00:42:16 --> 00:42:17 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: it can be.
00:42:17 --> 00:42:17 Yeah.
00:42:17 --> 00:42:19 So, we do grass finish.
00:42:20 --> 00:42:22 We, at the moment, our whole herd is together.
00:42:22 --> 00:42:23 So our finishing
00:42:23 --> 00:42:27 steers, our calves, our heifers, they're all in the same paddock.
00:42:27 --> 00:42:31 With the exception of getting a bull out when we don't want him to calve, we calve.
00:42:32 --> 00:42:33 Late spring, early summer.
00:42:34 --> 00:42:37 And so, but yeah, we we take our cattle and we're very
00:42:37 --> 00:42:39 lucky to live where we live.
00:42:40 --> 00:42:41 The Kamas Valley is.
00:42:42 --> 00:42:45 One of the, in my, it is in my opinion probably one of the best
00:42:45 --> 00:42:47 places to grass finish cattle.
00:42:47 --> 00:42:51 It's high altitude we have a lot of water for, for Utah.
00:42:51 --> 00:42:53 That's a unique thing.
00:42:53 --> 00:42:58 We have 2 major rivers that flow through the valley that are
00:42:58 --> 00:43:00 significant to the whole region.
00:43:00 --> 00:43:06 And so, we finish our cattle around, usually it's about 28 months.
00:43:06 --> 00:43:06 Thanks.
00:43:07 --> 00:43:12 And we typically are getting, I mean, this last time we got hanging
00:43:12 --> 00:43:15 weights of around 899 pounds,
00:43:15 --> 00:43:16 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh,
00:43:16 --> 00:43:18 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: and they turned out fabulous.
00:43:18 --> 00:43:19 They're probably
00:43:19 --> 00:43:19 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh,
00:43:19 --> 00:43:19 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: at grazing.
00:43:20 --> 00:43:24 Yeah, we're grading probably choice and sometimes a little bit higher on certain
00:43:24 --> 00:43:30 things, depending on the cut and yeah, we, and we can't, we castrate late as well.
00:43:30 --> 00:43:33 We calicrate our bulls in late, late fall.
00:43:33 --> 00:43:35 We'll be, we'll be doing that at the end of November.
00:43:35 --> 00:43:36 Probably.
00:43:36 --> 00:43:39 So they, they get a little bit bigger, a little bit faster that way for us.
00:43:39 --> 00:43:43 And we're not really at a size right now where we can be taking, you know,
00:43:43 --> 00:43:48 You know, heifers that don't meet the our phenotype criteria but we will
00:43:48 --> 00:43:50 be probably at that point very soon.
00:43:50 --> 00:43:52 And so, we're, we're still trying to grow the herd.
00:43:52 --> 00:43:56 Right now, from a profitability standpoint, we need to just grow the herd.
00:43:57 --> 00:44:00 But we've been doing really well with our meat.
00:44:00 --> 00:44:02 Mitch mentioned before that we, we get our.
00:44:02 --> 00:44:07 Both our poultry and our beef tested with I don't know how we got lucky in the state
00:44:07 --> 00:44:13 of Utah, but there's a guy named Stefan Van Vliet who decided to do metabolomics
00:44:13 --> 00:44:15 and nutrient density testing in meats.
00:44:16 --> 00:44:18 And he's just up the road from us.
00:44:18 --> 00:44:18 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh,
00:44:19 --> 00:44:20 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: And so we, we send that to
00:44:20 --> 00:44:22 them and we grade quite high.
00:44:22 --> 00:44:24 And that's something we take a lot of pride in.
00:44:24 --> 00:44:27 Our Omega 6, Omega 3 ratios are really low like 1.
00:44:27 --> 00:44:28 2.
00:44:29 --> 00:44:29 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh,
00:44:29 --> 00:44:33 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: we, and then we're averaging higher on, you
00:44:33 --> 00:44:37 know, different phytochemicals and more minerals in our, in our animals than the,
00:44:38 --> 00:44:40 than conventional you know, feedlot beef.
00:44:40 --> 00:44:43 And so, yeah, no, that's stuff that it worked.
00:44:43 --> 00:44:44 We're, we're really.
00:44:45 --> 00:44:46 We're tickled by that though.
00:44:46 --> 00:44:50 I mean, and so, but I don't know, we seem to fall into it.
00:44:50 --> 00:44:56 We kind of took, you know, Alan Williams has kind of been a mentor for us early on.
00:44:56 --> 00:45:00 And he, you know, gave us a recipe and we just followed it and it
00:45:00 --> 00:45:01 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, yeah.
00:45:02 --> 00:45:02 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: And
00:45:02 --> 00:45:02 so.
00:45:03 --> 00:45:08 On the grass finishing part because I had that was something I didn't
00:45:08 --> 00:45:09 even know anyone who did that.
00:45:09 --> 00:45:11 Back in the day when my dad was in the cattle industry.
00:45:11 --> 00:45:17 And and so it's that was something we had to really lean on other experts for.
00:45:17 --> 00:45:19 And so we're kind of indebted indebted to.
00:45:20 --> 00:45:22 Other people to figure out how to do that.
00:45:22 --> 00:45:23 Cause it is tricky.
00:45:23 --> 00:45:28 And if, and I don't think we could do it if we, you know, a lot of guys try
00:45:28 --> 00:45:30 to take them around 20 or 18 months.
00:45:30 --> 00:45:30 It just
00:45:30 --> 00:45:32 doesn't seem to turn out the same way.
00:45:32 --> 00:45:34 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Yeah, get a little bit of age on them.
00:45:36 --> 00:45:40 I have one question I want to ask before we get to the overgrazing section, and I
00:45:40 --> 00:45:47 know we've already talked longer than when I usually transition, but you all started
00:45:47 --> 00:45:54 this as Acquaintances, friendship grew but three partners coming into a farm.
00:45:55 --> 00:45:58 How, what were some things that you all did to make that successful?
00:45:59 --> 00:46:00 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: Well, we first thing we did is
00:46:00 --> 00:46:03 we created the legal entity.
00:46:04 --> 00:46:08 And honestly, we could probably improve I don't know, our,
00:46:08 --> 00:46:11 probably the documents about how that functions a little bit more.
00:46:12 --> 00:46:17 But there, you know, there, it, it, it's still riding at the moment
00:46:17 --> 00:46:20 on, like, the passion and love for
00:46:21 --> 00:46:22 each other and what we do.
00:46:23 --> 00:46:29 And so, we, you know, we, we all contributed financially equally, and,
00:46:29 --> 00:46:35 you know, we, at the time it was, you know, all equally, and we're trying
00:46:35 --> 00:46:40 to make sure that we keep that going and we're every year we have a, a
00:46:40 --> 00:46:42 long planning sessions, usually 2 days
00:46:43 --> 00:46:48 and we go over kind of our, you know, the holistic context of each where each
00:46:48 --> 00:46:53 of us is at and make sure everything is, you know, Functioning what's not working.
00:46:53 --> 00:46:56 And so we have to be frank with each other occasionally, which is good.
00:46:57 --> 00:47:00 Everybody needs, needs to be that way with the, with this, with an
00:47:00 --> 00:47:03 operation or with, with a ranch.
00:47:03 --> 00:47:04 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh
00:47:04 --> 00:47:05 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: otherwise, you know, if you're not
00:47:05 --> 00:47:09 monitoring what's going on and you just keep going, eventually, you
00:47:09 --> 00:47:10 know, failure tends to follow you.
00:47:11 --> 00:47:13 And so we tried to really do that.
00:47:13 --> 00:47:15 And we check in with each other pretty regularly throughout
00:47:15 --> 00:47:16 the year to make sure.
00:47:17 --> 00:47:18 You know, Mitch has been doing the poultry.
00:47:18 --> 00:47:22 I've been more on the cattle and we got to make sure that we're all doing okay.
00:47:22 --> 00:47:27 And we cover for each other if we need a break depending on what's going on.
00:47:27 --> 00:47:30 And so if you know, it allows us to have vacations.
00:47:30 --> 00:47:33 And so our, you know, our quality of life is really important to each other
00:47:34 --> 00:47:37 and that making sure that we spend time with our families.
00:47:37 --> 00:47:40 And if we need to do that, we can cover for them, et cetera.
00:47:40 --> 00:47:43 The problem with ranching that people forget is the quality of
00:47:43 --> 00:47:46 life is as integral as the money.
00:47:46 --> 00:47:47 Otherwise, a
00:47:47 --> 00:47:48 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh yes.
00:47:48 --> 00:47:49 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: wouldn't be doing it.
00:47:49 --> 00:47:53 And so, yeah, we're, we're a little bit nervous on other people's money.
00:47:53 --> 00:47:55 And even though most people say you should use other people's
00:47:55 --> 00:47:59 money to make money, we're a little cagey on that idea at the moment.
00:48:00 --> 00:48:00 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Yeah.
00:48:00 --> 00:48:06 Because anytime you get shareholders or VCs in they may be in your ear and
00:48:06 --> 00:48:07 that's going to affect your focus.
00:48:07 --> 00:48:10 So yeah, you gotta be really tread really careful there.
00:48:10 --> 00:48:14 I'm going to say that I assume that because no one has offered
00:48:14 --> 00:48:15 to invest in me on this.
00:48:15 --> 00:48:18 So, but That's my assumption.
00:48:18 --> 00:48:22 So, McKinley and Mitch, it's been great talking to you all, but we need
00:48:22 --> 00:48:26 to go ahead and transition to our overgrazing section sponsored by Redmond.
00:48:27 --> 00:48:30 Cal: At Redmond, we know that you thrive when your animals do.
00:48:31 --> 00:48:35 That's why it's essential to fill the gaps in your herd's nutrition
00:48:35 --> 00:48:37 with the minerals that they need.
00:48:38 --> 00:48:43 Made by nature, our ancient mineral salt and conditioner clay are the
00:48:43 --> 00:48:47 catalyst in optimizing the nutrients your animals get from their forage.
00:48:48 --> 00:48:53 Unaltered and unrefined, our minerals have the natural balance and proportion
00:48:53 --> 00:48:55 to help that your animals prefer.
00:48:56 --> 00:49:00 This gives your herd the ability to naturally regulate their
00:49:00 --> 00:49:02 mineral consumption as they graze.
00:49:03 --> 00:49:07 Our minerals won't just help you improve the health of your animals,
00:49:07 --> 00:49:13 but will also help you naturally build soil fertility so you can grow more
00:49:13 --> 00:49:15 nutrient dense pasture year after year.
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00:49:20 --> 00:49:22 Learn more at redmondagriculture.
00:49:24 --> 00:49:24 com
00:49:25 --> 00:49:27 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: And one thing we've talked about today
00:49:28 --> 00:49:29 was you all getting started.
00:49:30 --> 00:49:35 It's also very challenging To get started when you've got to grow your
00:49:35 --> 00:49:40 herd, your land base, and keep up with, you know, healthy grazing management.
00:49:41 --> 00:49:44 So how were you all able to accomplish that?
00:49:44 --> 00:49:47 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: The thing we tend to run into, for
00:49:47 --> 00:49:49 us is we're not stocked enough.
00:49:50 --> 00:49:56 And in order to get the adequate amount of animal impact that, you know, that
00:49:56 --> 00:50:01 short duration, high intensity grazing that, that people talk about you need
00:50:01 --> 00:50:05 to be stocked correctly, in my opinion, and we are not kind of, as Mitch
00:50:05 --> 00:50:11 mentioned before, we're, you know, the cattle prices and, you know, growth and
00:50:11 --> 00:50:14 everything like that has limited us.
00:50:14 --> 00:50:18 In our own unique context from being able to bring in more cattle and a lot
00:50:18 --> 00:50:23 of people are not interested in our local area and custom grazing just because
00:50:23 --> 00:50:27 the herd has been thinned pretty dramatically from that
00:50:27 --> 00:50:28 drought and then winters.
00:50:28 --> 00:50:32 And anyway, it's been an interesting combo that way for us.
00:50:33 --> 00:50:37 But when it comes to, yeah, I mean, we, we weren't able to overgraze this year.
00:50:37 --> 00:50:42 In fact, our feed got way far ahead of us and I'm, I'm personally not an advocate.
00:50:42 --> 00:50:46 For, like, saying, okay, if you can't get everything, you just leave ground
00:50:47 --> 00:50:49 for stockpiled grazing during the winter.
00:50:49 --> 00:50:52 We will get anywhere between 3 and 4 feet of standing snow.
00:50:54 --> 00:50:59 So that if we don't get to our grass, that means we are actually potentially not
00:50:59 --> 00:51:02 financially viable which at the moment.
00:51:02 --> 00:51:07 We are working to do and we need that animal impact.
00:51:07 --> 00:51:13 And so when we were smaller, you know, I honestly just having spoken to Alan and
00:51:13 --> 00:51:19 he is so convicted, I've never met a more convicted and dedicated person in my life.
00:51:20 --> 00:51:20 Ever.
00:51:20 --> 00:51:25 I, it's kind of a different thing, but he drew, I spent time with
00:51:25 --> 00:51:27 him in Colorado for five days.
00:51:27 --> 00:51:33 And he just drilled to me and a couple educators heads that if you do not get
00:51:33 --> 00:51:39 real animal impact and real animal impact is what he says, like, imagine, You know,
00:51:39 --> 00:51:46 50, 000 bison, African bison, and they're moving and five grown adult male bison
00:51:46 --> 00:51:49 were trampled to death in that move.
00:51:49 --> 00:51:51 That's the type of animal
00:51:51 --> 00:51:54 impact you need to get to keep.
00:51:54 --> 00:51:56 Your grass is functioning.
00:51:56 --> 00:51:58 I'm like, oh, yeah, we don't do that.
00:51:58 --> 00:51:59 Like, straight up.
00:51:59 --> 00:51:59 We don't do
00:51:59 --> 00:51:59 that.
00:52:00 --> 00:52:05 Except for maybe in one or two places where we have a shape, a shade structure.
00:52:06 --> 00:52:12 And so, we've minimized overgrazing completely in our operation.
00:52:12 --> 00:52:15 And for us, overgrazing means returning too soon.
00:52:16 --> 00:52:20 And so, if you graze a plant, depending on where you're at in the world, you'll
00:52:20 --> 00:52:26 have a recovery period, or it will go dormant before then, if it even recovers.
00:52:27 --> 00:52:30 And if you come in within that recovery period of the
00:52:30 --> 00:52:32 plant, then that's overgrazing.
00:52:32 --> 00:52:36 And so, it's really a function of time rather than overgrazing.
00:52:36 --> 00:52:39 I mean, it's something we try to teach people who come out
00:52:39 --> 00:52:40 to the ranch who want tours.
00:52:41 --> 00:52:42 About what we're doing.
00:52:43 --> 00:52:45 A lot of people think, well, if you could just graze the plant too low,
00:52:45 --> 00:52:49 that's overgrazing, and a lot of people think that sheep just overgraze, period.
00:52:50 --> 00:52:53 It's like, no, that's, that's not the case, because.
00:52:53 --> 00:52:59 Historically, you had bison, pronghorn deer, elk, mule deer, whitetail
00:52:59 --> 00:53:01 deer, all following each other.
00:53:02 --> 00:53:05 And occasionally, plants were definitely overgrazed, because you probably had
00:53:05 --> 00:53:10 a herd of mule deer following a herd of three million bison at some point.
00:53:10 --> 00:53:12 Five days later, that's overgrazing,
00:53:12 --> 00:53:13 depending on the time of the year.
00:53:14 --> 00:53:18 And so, It was getting that animal impact.
00:53:18 --> 00:53:22 We, we do ecological monitoring for different conservation
00:53:22 --> 00:53:25 groups and fascinatingly enough.
00:53:25 --> 00:53:28 A lot of these places are technically over grazing.
00:53:29 --> 00:53:33 In certain areas, but it's actually thicker and denser grass.
00:53:34 --> 00:53:37 Then the places that the cattle avoid, because it's either too
00:53:37 --> 00:53:39 dry or it's too wet, et cetera.
00:53:40 --> 00:53:44 And once they get off, it's actually a denser stand or sward of grass.
00:53:45 --> 00:53:46 And so for me.
00:53:47 --> 00:53:53 In our own operation, that's something that we can't even, we can't even
00:53:53 --> 00:53:56 achieve overgrazing because we don't have the adequate numbers.
00:53:56 --> 00:54:00 And we struggle to get animal impact over our whole piece of
00:54:00 --> 00:54:02 land that we lease at the moment.
00:54:02 --> 00:54:03 And so
00:54:04 --> 00:54:07 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: McKinley, if, if I'm understanding you clear, when,
00:54:07 --> 00:54:11 when we talk about your acreage, your grazing, you don't have enough animals to
00:54:11 --> 00:54:15 do the animal impact you would like to do.
00:54:15 --> 00:54:22 So, rather than do the animal impact on a portion and leave the other fallow
00:54:22 --> 00:54:26 or fallow for a year, you're still, you're going to it and grazing it,
00:54:26 --> 00:54:30 but you're doing it without getting that animal impact you'd like to get.
00:54:30 --> 00:54:31 Oh
00:54:32 --> 00:54:33 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: that that's pretty, that
00:54:33 --> 00:54:34 sums it up in a nutshell.
00:54:34 --> 00:54:40 We are, we, you know, we try to utilize the whole piece of ground because a lot
00:54:40 --> 00:54:43 of people start saying, well, you didn't do anything with it and you don't need it.
00:54:44 --> 00:54:44 And
00:54:44 --> 00:54:47 so there, there's, there's a social context there in this particular value.
00:54:47 --> 00:54:49 It's like, nothing's being done on it.
00:54:50 --> 00:54:50 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh yeah.
00:54:50 --> 00:54:52 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: then you don't need it.
00:54:52 --> 00:54:54 It's like, well, we, we do.
00:54:54 --> 00:54:55 There's a future there that we're
00:54:55 --> 00:54:56 trying to achieve.
00:54:57 --> 00:55:01 And so, and in certain areas, we are achieving that by using stock density
00:55:01 --> 00:55:03 and small paddocks in certain areas.
00:55:03 --> 00:55:06 But the problem we run into is that because we're grass finishing,
00:55:07 --> 00:55:09 the palatability of the grass.
00:55:10 --> 00:55:10 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh yeah.
00:55:11 --> 00:55:13 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: Goes down dramatically and so we're a little
00:55:13 --> 00:55:15 bit nervous about our finishing ability.
00:55:15 --> 00:55:18 If we don't move fast enough.
00:55:18 --> 00:55:20 On the piece of ground, just letting the whole thing seed
00:55:20 --> 00:55:23 out or lignify over the winter.
00:55:24 --> 00:55:32 And so, you know, we, we try to our whole goal is to utilize the ground as much as
00:55:32 --> 00:55:36 we can, because if we're not, if we're not utilizing our whole ranch in a year.
00:55:38 --> 00:55:39 You know, that's.
00:55:40 --> 00:55:40 that's.
00:55:40 --> 00:55:41 money lost to us,
00:55:41 --> 00:55:43 especially in our context with the winter.
00:55:43 --> 00:55:47 I know some people have a, you know, they don't have winters like this
00:55:47 --> 00:55:48 and they don't want to pay for hay.
00:55:48 --> 00:55:51 And so there there's different contexts people need to consider.
00:55:51 --> 00:55:55 But for us, if we're not utilizing the whole thing, it's truly, we're
00:55:55 --> 00:55:57 losing money, hemorrhaging it.
00:55:59 --> 00:56:01 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: And you, you bring up a really good point there.
00:56:01 --> 00:56:05 You, you've got that converse of the, the land available that you
00:56:05 --> 00:56:07 need to use or forage out there.
00:56:07 --> 00:56:10 You've got your animal impact, but the other thing is you're trying
00:56:10 --> 00:56:12 to finish some animals on grass.
00:56:12 --> 00:56:15 So they've got to have, they have a higher nutritional requirement than
00:56:15 --> 00:56:18 those over mature plants can give them.
00:56:18 --> 00:56:19 So yeah, it's a.
00:56:20 --> 00:56:24 It's a nice balancing act on a few different points.
00:56:24 --> 00:56:26 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: yes, yes.
00:56:26 --> 00:56:30 And maybe someday in the future, we might separate our
00:56:30 --> 00:56:32 finishers out from our cattle.
00:56:32 --> 00:56:33 But at the moment.
00:56:33 --> 00:56:36 We want all of our cows in 1 herd to get as much animal impact as we
00:56:37 --> 00:56:37 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, yeah.
00:56:37 --> 00:56:40 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: And so we'll have this year we,
00:56:40 --> 00:56:42 we, we kind of ranged right?
00:56:42 --> 00:56:42 So.
00:56:43 --> 00:56:48 We were anywhere between three quarters of an acre to four
00:56:48 --> 00:56:50 acres in each of our moves.
00:56:50 --> 00:56:56 And so, and that wasn't, we, you know, we didn't do, did do moves every
00:56:56 --> 00:56:59 day, but we found that same thing happened if we're trying to finish
00:56:59 --> 00:57:01 that the, the grass starts to lignify.
00:57:02 --> 00:57:06 And so, we, we found like, okay, we're getting incredible animal impact on
00:57:06 --> 00:57:08 half the ranch and not getting any.
00:57:09 --> 00:57:13 For the other half, and then it's winter and then we got to get them out of here.
00:57:13 --> 00:57:17 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: McKinley, it's time for us to transition to a famous four
00:57:17 --> 00:57:19 questions sponsored by Kencove Farm Fence.
00:57:20 --> 00:57:23 Cal: Kencove Farm Fence is a proud supporter of the Grazing Grass
00:57:23 --> 00:57:25 podcast and graziers everywhere.
00:57:26 --> 00:57:30 At Kencove Farm Fence, they believe there's true value within the community
00:57:30 --> 00:57:32 of graziers and land stewards.
00:57:32 --> 00:57:35 The results that follow proper management and monitoring can
00:57:35 --> 00:57:37 change the very world around us.
00:57:38 --> 00:57:42 That's why Kencove is dedicated to providing an ever expanding line of
00:57:42 --> 00:57:45 grazing products to make your chores easier and your land more abundant.
00:57:46 --> 00:57:49 Whether you're growing your own food on the homestead or grazing
00:57:49 --> 00:57:54 on thousands of acres, Kencove has everything you need to do it well.
00:57:55 --> 00:57:59 From reels to tumblewheels, polytwine to electric nets, water valves to
00:57:59 --> 00:58:03 water troughs, you'll find what you're looking for at Kencove.
00:58:04 --> 00:58:07 They carry brands like Speedrite, O'Brien's, Kiwitech,
00:58:07 --> 00:58:09 Strainrite, Jobe, and more.
00:58:10 --> 00:58:13 Kencove is proud to be part of your regenerative journey.
00:58:13 --> 00:58:16 Call them today or visit Kencove.com.
00:58:16 --> 00:58:22 And be sure to follow them on social media and subscribe to the Kencove YouTube
00:58:22 --> 00:58:28 channel @KencoveFarmFence for helpful how to videos and new product releases!
00:58:29 --> 00:58:30 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: They're the same four questions
00:58:30 --> 00:58:31 we ask of all of our guests.
00:58:31 --> 00:58:37 Our first question, what's your favorite grazing grass related book or resource?
00:58:37 --> 00:58:41 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: I'm pretty biased towards holistic management,
00:58:41 --> 00:58:45 a common sense and what's the full title the holistic management textbook is,
00:58:46 --> 00:58:47 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, yes.
00:58:47 --> 00:58:49 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: has a good, is one of my favorites by Alan
00:58:49 --> 00:58:51 savory and Jody butter for the field
00:58:51 --> 00:58:53 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: McKinley, excellent resource there.
00:58:53 --> 00:58:56 Our second question, what's your favorite tool for the farm?
00:58:58 --> 00:58:59 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: good question.
00:59:00 --> 00:59:02 We're, we still love our conveniences.
00:59:02 --> 00:59:06 Other than the, the, the feed of the cattle which are probably my favorite
00:59:06 --> 00:59:11 tool, my, the actual tool it's in my hands that we use regularly.
00:59:12 --> 00:59:15 I really like the speedrite energizer remote
00:59:16 --> 00:59:16 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh
00:59:16 --> 00:59:19 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: the fence on and off from wherever we're at
00:59:19 --> 00:59:21 because I don't like getting shocked.
00:59:21 --> 00:59:22 I'm as
00:59:22 --> 00:59:23 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Oh, I don't
00:59:23 --> 00:59:24 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: to that fence as our cattle are.
00:59:24 --> 00:59:29 And yeah, that's probably the, my favorite tool that I have in
00:59:29 --> 00:59:30 my, that I can use in my hand.
00:59:31 --> 00:59:33 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: That, that remote can be pretty handy.
00:59:33 --> 00:59:36 And I agree, McKinley, I do not want to get shocked.
00:59:36 --> 00:59:40 If, if I'm okay with getting shocked by my fence, my fence isn't hot enough.
00:59:40 --> 00:59:41 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: Here you go.
00:59:42 --> 00:59:43 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: I don't want to touch it.
00:59:44 --> 00:59:44 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: Yeah.
00:59:44 --> 00:59:46 You want to be knocked on the ground by that.
00:59:46 --> 00:59:47 Yeah.
00:59:48 --> 00:59:50 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Our third question, what would you tell
00:59:50 --> 00:59:52 someone just getting started?
00:59:53 --> 00:59:54 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: Good question.
00:59:56 --> 01:00:01 Probably for me probably two things depending on their con I
01:00:01 --> 01:00:04 probably ask them some questions to understand where they're at in
01:00:04 --> 01:00:04 life.
01:00:05 --> 01:00:08 But first thing would probably, you know, depending on if they
01:00:08 --> 01:00:12 have another job and they're just trying to ease into it, start small.
01:00:12 --> 01:00:14 But if that is not an option.
01:00:16 --> 01:00:19 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: So, McKinley , lastly, where can
01:00:19 --> 01:00:20 others find out more about you?
01:00:20 --> 01:00:21 Oh
01:00:21 --> 01:00:22 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: They can find us.
01:00:22 --> 01:00:24 You can find us on Instagram.
01:00:24 --> 01:00:27 We try to be present on Instagram.
01:00:27 --> 01:00:28 We do put things up.
01:00:28 --> 01:00:30 Don't get me wrong, but it's.
01:00:30 --> 01:00:32 So, social media is a weird thing.
01:00:32 --> 01:00:35 You can find us on Instagram at 3SpringsUtah.
01:00:35 --> 01:00:39 You can also visit our website at 3SpringsUtah.
01:00:39 --> 01:00:39 com.
01:00:40 --> 01:00:42 We do send out newsletters.
01:00:42 --> 01:00:44 We're trying to become more consistent and actually have
01:00:44 --> 01:00:45 something worth reading there.
01:00:45 --> 01:00:48 We also put out our what we have available.
01:00:48 --> 01:00:50 We are really a regional food supplier.
01:00:50 --> 01:00:53 We don't really operate outside of the state of Utah.
01:00:54 --> 01:00:56 Which I know is a bummer for some people.
01:00:56 --> 01:00:57 We apologize.
01:00:57 --> 01:01:00 It just doesn't fit into our quality of life right now
01:01:00 --> 01:01:04 of wanting to package and deal with all that stuff.
01:01:04 --> 01:01:11 And so, but if you want some fun and silly Instagram.
01:01:11 --> 01:01:12 It's probably the best way to do it.
01:01:14 --> 01:01:16 cal_2_10-30-2024_100650: Really appreciate you coming on and sharing today.
01:01:17 --> 01:01:18 Enjoyed the conversation.
01:01:19 --> 01:01:20 mckinley-smoot_1_10-30-2024_090650: Thanks, Cal.
01:01:20 --> 01:01:22 Cal: I really hope you enjoyed today's conversation.
01:01:23 --> 01:01:24 I know I did.
01:01:24 --> 01:01:29 Thank you for listening, and if you found something useful, please share it.
01:01:30 --> 01:01:31 Share it on your social media.
01:01:32 --> 01:01:33 Tell your friends.
01:01:33 --> 01:01:35 Get the word out about the podcast.
01:01:35 --> 01:01:36 Helps us grow.
01:01:37 --> 01:01:41 If you happen to be a grass farmer and you'd like to share about
01:01:41 --> 01:01:43 your journey, go to grazinggrass.
01:01:43 --> 01:01:47 com and click on Be Our Guest.
01:01:48 --> 01:01:51 Fill out the form and I'll be in touch.
01:01:51 --> 01:01:54 We appreciate your support by sharing our episodes and
01:01:54 --> 01:01:57 telling your friends about it.
01:01:57 --> 01:01:59 You can also support our show by buying our merch.
01:02:00 --> 01:02:02 We get a little bit back from that.
01:02:02 --> 01:02:07 Another way to support the show is by becoming a grazing grass insider.
01:02:08 --> 01:02:09 Grazing Grass Insiders
01:02:09 --> 01:02:13 enjoy bonus content, monthly zooms and discounts.
01:02:14 --> 01:02:17 You can visit the website grazing grass.com.
01:02:17 --> 01:02:20 Click on support and they'll have the links there.
01:02:21 --> 01:02:24 Also, if you haven't left us a review, please do.
01:02:24 --> 01:02:27 It really helps us as people are searching for podcasts.
01:02:28 --> 01:02:33 And I was just checking them and we do not have very many reviews for 2024.
01:02:34 --> 01:02:36 So if you haven't left us a review, please do.
01:02:38 --> 01:02:41 And until next time, keep on grazing grass.
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