Nic De Castro takes us on an extraordinary journey from his roots in Southern California to the vast landscapes of the Rocky Mountain West. As an avid hunter and fisherman, Nic turned his passion into a groundbreaking venture with LandTrust, a platform revolutionizing access to private lands for outdoor enthusiasts. In our latest episode of the Grazing Grass Podcast, we unearth the challenges and triumphs behind LandTrust's mission to balance business with tradition, creating a harmonious connection between landowners and adventurers across 42 states and over a million acres.
The conversation delves into LandTrust's innovative approach to land use, offering novel opportunities for multi-generational farm and ranch families. By providing flexible and profitable ways to monetize their land, the platform supports agritourism and land management through personalized experiences like crawfish harvesting. We tackle the complexities of modernizing rural communities while preserving their essence, underscoring how landowners maintain control and foster deeper connections with the public in a world increasingly interested in food production. Nic's insights reveal the potential to reinvigorate these communities by enticing younger generations back to the family farm.
Listeners will also gain an understanding of the safety and security measures integral to LandTrust's success. Through features like ID verification, insurance, and agritourism liability protections, we explore how the platform ensures trust and transparency between landowners and guests. Open communication is championed, with unique tools like "field notes" enabling real-time updates and interactions, making LandTrust akin to an Airbnb for outdoor experiences. Join us as we uncover the transformative power of this platform in reshaping how we think about land access and the vibrant possibilities it holds for the future of rural America.
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NOTE This file was generated by Descript
00:00:00 --> 00:00:04 Welcome to grazing grass podcast, episode 145.
00:00:04 --> 00:00:05 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: this is going to be a great way
00:00:05 --> 00:00:07 to stack another enterprise.
00:00:07 --> 00:00:13 on to an operation as we know you kind of have to do to be profitable and it's
00:00:13 --> 00:00:14 something that you stay in control of.
00:00:14 --> 00:00:17 Cal: You're listening to the grazing grass, podcast, sharing
00:00:17 --> 00:00:21 information and stories of grass-based livestock production
00:00:21 --> 00:00:23 utilizing regenerative practices.
00:00:23 --> 00:00:25 I'm your host, Cal Hardage.
00:00:27 --> 00:00:29 You're growing more than grass.
00:00:30 --> 00:00:33 You're growing a healthier ecosystem to help your cattle
00:00:33 --> 00:00:35 thrive in their environment.
00:00:35 --> 00:00:40 You're growing your livelihood by increasing your carrying capacity
00:00:40 --> 00:00:42 and reducing your operating costs.
00:00:43 --> 00:00:48 You're growing stronger communities and a legacy to last generations.
00:00:49 --> 00:00:52 The grazing management decisions you make today.
00:00:52 --> 00:00:58 impact everything from the soil beneath your feet to the community all around you.
00:00:58 --> 00:01:03 That's why the Noble Research Institute created their Essentials
00:01:03 --> 00:01:08 of Regenerative Grazing course to teach ranchers like you easy to follow
00:01:08 --> 00:01:15 techniques to quickly assess your forage production and infrastructure capacity.
00:01:15 --> 00:01:19 In order to begin grazing more efficiently.
00:01:19 --> 00:01:23 Together, they can help you grow not only a healthier operation,
00:01:24 --> 00:01:26 but a legacy that lasts.
00:01:27 --> 00:01:30 Learn more on their website at noble.
00:01:30 --> 00:01:32 org slash grazing.
00:01:32 --> 00:01:39 It's n o b l e dot org forward slash grazing.
00:01:40 --> 00:01:44 On last Wednesday's episode, we had Taylor Moyer on, to share
00:01:44 --> 00:01:46 about what's happening on his farm.
00:01:46 --> 00:01:52 Since we last talked to him and how he's utilizing land trust to have
00:01:52 --> 00:01:54 another income stream for his farm.
00:01:55 --> 00:02:01 On today's episode, we talk with CEO of Land Trust, Nic De Castro, and we
00:02:01 --> 00:02:03 talk about his journey to Land Trust.
00:02:03 --> 00:02:07 And what it's doing for landowners as well as.
00:02:08 --> 00:02:11 For hunters or people who would like access to land.
00:02:13 --> 00:02:14 I think it's very interesting.
00:02:14 --> 00:02:15 I think it's a very valid.
00:02:16 --> 00:02:17 Uh, avenue.
00:02:17 --> 00:02:21 For some enterprise stacking to get another income stream.
00:02:22 --> 00:02:23 So I hope you find benefit from it.
00:02:25 --> 00:02:27 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Nic, we want to welcome you to the Grazing Grass podcast.
00:02:27 --> 00:02:28 We're excited to have you here
00:02:29 --> 00:02:30 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: Yeah, I really appreciate having me on Cal.
00:02:30 --> 00:02:32 And I know we're both we've got a bit of a cough going.
00:02:32 --> 00:02:36 So I got little kids that are of course in school and you walk into the
00:02:36 --> 00:02:38 school, it sounds like an infirmary.
00:02:38 --> 00:02:40 So I'm, I'll try to be good on the mute
00:02:40 --> 00:02:41 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Oh man.
00:02:43 --> 00:02:46 Well, I'll try and be good on the edit button.
00:02:46 --> 00:02:46 So
00:02:46 --> 00:02:48 maybe not too much coughing will hit our listeners.
00:02:49 --> 00:02:52 And even if it does, it's not as contagious
00:02:52 --> 00:02:52 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: That's right.
00:02:52 --> 00:02:53 Yeah, I don't think you
00:02:53 --> 00:02:54 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: as if they were in person.
00:02:54 --> 00:02:59 So to get started, Nick, tell us a little bit about yourself.
00:02:59 --> 00:02:59 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: Sure.
00:02:59 --> 00:03:03 So, I was born in Southern California.
00:03:03 --> 00:03:05 I just turned 37 years old.
00:03:05 --> 00:03:11 I grew up hunting, fishing, surfing, spearfishing, just a bunch of great stuff.
00:03:11 --> 00:03:14 You know, I got, I feel like I got the end of the golden age of Southern
00:03:14 --> 00:03:18 California before they, you know, put 15, 20 million people down there.
00:03:18 --> 00:03:20 Grew up in a sleepy kind of beach community.
00:03:21 --> 00:03:25 And yeah, then went to school on the East coast, lived in the cities.
00:03:25 --> 00:03:27 I was a sales guy for a long time.
00:03:27 --> 00:03:31 So I was kind of planes, trains and automobiles for the first, you know, for
00:03:31 --> 00:03:35 most of my twenties and then moved to the Rocky mountain West and moved to Boulder
00:03:35 --> 00:03:37 first when I was working for a startup.
00:03:37 --> 00:03:41 And then in the end of 16, I moved to Bozeman where I was living
00:03:42 --> 00:03:43 up until about two months ago.
00:03:43 --> 00:03:46 So that's Very quick high level on me.
00:03:48 --> 00:03:51 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: So one thing you mentioned there, hunting,
00:03:51 --> 00:03:52 fishing from an early time in life.
00:03:52 --> 00:03:54 Has that always been a passion of
00:03:54 --> 00:03:54 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: Yeah.
00:03:54 --> 00:03:59 I mean, I think my, I'm pretty sure my earliest memory is, you know, dove hunting
00:03:59 --> 00:04:02 with my dad when I was like three and a half years old in the deserts of Southern
00:04:02 --> 00:04:04 California, close to the Mexico border.
00:04:05 --> 00:04:06 I mean, literally 115 degree heat.
00:04:07 --> 00:04:08 It's, I think it's my earliest memory.
00:04:08 --> 00:04:09 So I I've been
00:04:10 --> 00:04:13 fanatical about hunting and fishing since I was little.
00:04:13 --> 00:04:16 I would always say when I was little, I want to be a professional
00:04:16 --> 00:04:17 fisherman when I grew up.
00:04:17 --> 00:04:19 Didn't work out, but yeah, it's been a passion.
00:04:20 --> 00:04:21 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Yeah.
00:04:23 --> 00:04:27 And then another passion sounds like technology is a passion of yours.
00:04:27 --> 00:04:29 You work for a startup before starting land
00:04:29 --> 00:04:30 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: Yeah.
00:04:30 --> 00:04:34 So I worked for a handful of startups in my twenties that you
00:04:34 --> 00:04:36 know, I worked more in the marketing and advertising technology space.
00:04:36 --> 00:04:38 So I did a lot of ad sales.
00:04:39 --> 00:04:42 I was kind of early in the YouTube world when YouTube was starting to
00:04:42 --> 00:04:44 get going and get more mainstream.
00:04:44 --> 00:04:46 And so, yeah, I did a lot of that.
00:04:47 --> 00:04:50 I like, I mean, I love business and just kind of, it's never
00:04:50 --> 00:04:51 ending problem solving.
00:04:51 --> 00:04:57 So I've enjoyed it and obviously I've been, you know, running a company now
00:04:57 --> 00:05:02 for almost six years, LandTrust that is, it uses technology to kind of serve.
00:05:02 --> 00:05:06 I, I don't, I don't like to call us a technology company, even though yes,
00:05:06 --> 00:05:09 technically, you know, we have a website and a marketplace and all that, but we,
00:05:10 --> 00:05:14 we feel, and I always kind of emphasize that we're very service oriented but yes,
00:05:14 --> 00:05:16 technically it is a technology company.
00:05:16 --> 00:05:20 Sure.
00:05:21 --> 00:05:25 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: of of deciding to to embark upon the land trust journey?
00:05:26 --> 00:05:28 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: So when I moved, as I mentioned,
00:05:28 --> 00:05:32 I, I, I did a ton of traveling as just as a sales guy in my twenties.
00:05:32 --> 00:05:34 So I didn't actually get to do a whole lot of hunting and fishing.
00:05:35 --> 00:05:38 It was just mainly, you know, flying between all the major
00:05:38 --> 00:05:39 cities and selling advertising.
00:05:39 --> 00:05:44 And so, in 16, when I moved to Bozeman, I figured, hey, I want
00:05:44 --> 00:05:46 to live close to my passions.
00:05:46 --> 00:05:47 The cities are always there for work.
00:05:47 --> 00:05:49 If you need to fly to them, they're, they're, they're there.
00:05:50 --> 00:05:50 And so,
00:05:50 --> 00:05:54 you know, I moved, I moved in to 16, and then, You know, kind of was immediately
00:05:54 --> 00:05:59 confronted with what today is land trust, which is, you know, in the west
00:05:59 --> 00:06:03 at least there's a ton of public land and public land's a fantastic resource.
00:06:03 --> 00:06:07 But you know, I still found myself wanting to get out and hunt fish and,
00:06:07 --> 00:06:10 you know, kind of explore private ground.
00:06:10 --> 00:06:13 And there's a ton of amazing private farms and ranches in and around the
00:06:13 --> 00:06:15 Bozeman area and across obviously Montana.
00:06:16 --> 00:06:19 And there just wasn't a great way to figure out how to
00:06:19 --> 00:06:20 do that, how to access it.
00:06:20 --> 00:06:22 You know, door knocking is kind of what it's always been.
00:06:23 --> 00:06:26 I'm sure a lot of your listeners, you know, door knocking has changed.
00:06:26 --> 00:06:31 You know, on the, on the door knocker side, it's a much lower percentage.
00:06:31 --> 00:06:34 You know, thumbs up rate from landowners, and I don't blame them for
00:06:34 --> 00:06:35 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Oh, yeah.
00:06:35 --> 00:06:36 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: Just because there's a lot
00:06:36 --> 00:06:37 more people doing it and
00:06:38 --> 00:06:41 it was just always, I felt, I found it kind of awkward, you know, it's,
00:06:41 --> 00:06:44 you're walking up to a stranger's door, and especially in agriculture, they're
00:06:44 --> 00:06:47 working, they're working all the time, and so you're interrupting whatever
00:06:47 --> 00:06:52 they're doing, and you both know what you're there for, but you're both,
00:06:52 --> 00:06:54 you know, like, you're kind of trying to do the pleasantries, and how's the
00:06:54 --> 00:06:56 weather, and, you know, all that, but.
00:06:57 --> 00:07:00 Until you get to the, Hey, can I go and do this thing on your property for free?
00:07:00 --> 00:07:05 And I don't know, it just, it wasn't, it wasn't a great transaction.
00:07:05 --> 00:07:10 And so, you know, I had been an early host on Airbnb when I was living
00:07:10 --> 00:07:13 in New York city and just kind of started to get an experience of
00:07:13 --> 00:07:15 what that sharing economy felt like.
00:07:15 --> 00:07:16 All this is kind of the sharing economy.
00:07:16 --> 00:07:18 Hey, I have this asset.
00:07:18 --> 00:07:19 I'm not using it.
00:07:19 --> 00:07:22 You can use it, you know, for some amount of money.
00:07:22 --> 00:07:26 And so, you know, my mind immediately went to like, there's gotta be a better way.
00:07:26 --> 00:07:27 There's obviously a lot of supply.
00:07:27 --> 00:07:30 There's a lot of land out there that isn't being leveraged for.
00:07:31 --> 00:07:32 You know, recreation at all times.
00:07:32 --> 00:07:35 A lot of these farms and ranches are, you know, they're production agriculture.
00:07:35 --> 00:07:36 That's what they do.
00:07:36 --> 00:07:39 And there's clearly a ton of demand, whether it's hunting, fishing, foraging,
00:07:39 --> 00:07:43 whatever it might be, there's a lot of different user groups who really want
00:07:43 --> 00:07:46 access to more and more land just to do the things they're passionate about.
00:07:46 --> 00:07:49 So there's just gotta be a better way to you know, bring these two together.
00:07:49 --> 00:07:51 And so that's kind of what sent me on the path.
00:07:52 --> 00:07:54 I didn't actually, I was working for another company at the time, so I
00:07:54 --> 00:07:56 didn't actually start it right away.
00:07:56 --> 00:07:58 It was a couple of years before I actually said, Hey, I gotta,
00:07:58 --> 00:07:59 I gotta build this thing.
00:07:59 --> 00:08:03 And I, I talked to entrepreneurs today and or maybe even aspiring
00:08:03 --> 00:08:05 entrepreneurs at college or, or whatnot.
00:08:05 --> 00:08:11 And I just, I warned them not to do this thing of entrepreneurship
00:08:11 --> 00:08:14 of trying to start a business unless they can't not do it.
00:08:14 --> 00:08:17 You know, unless it's burning a hole in your head.
00:08:18 --> 00:08:21 You know, it's, it's a pretty tough journey and the same thing.
00:08:21 --> 00:08:23 I mean, farming and ranching, pretty tough journey.
00:08:23 --> 00:08:25 A lot of people romanticize it.
00:08:25 --> 00:08:28 You know, a lot of TV shows, honestly, we're both entrepreneurs.
00:08:28 --> 00:08:31 You know, it's just mine's kind of on the technology side and then farmers
00:08:31 --> 00:08:35 and ranchers is on the agriculture side and basically the land business.
00:08:35 --> 00:08:37 And it's tough, it's stressful.
00:08:37 --> 00:08:38 There's not a lot of money in it.
00:08:38 --> 00:08:40 You know, theoretically you could make some money doing it, but it's,
00:08:40 --> 00:08:42 you know, it's, it's a tough journey.
00:08:42 --> 00:08:45 So I always of tell them to heed the warning of like.
00:08:45 --> 00:08:48 Unless you truly, truly, truly are passionate about this
00:08:48 --> 00:08:49 thing, do something else.
00:08:51 --> 00:08:53 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: So true, because it's a lot more work than
00:08:53 --> 00:08:55 you think about on the onset.
00:08:55 --> 00:08:58 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: A lot more work than a 9 to 5.
00:08:58 --> 00:08:58 It's a lot more work than a 9 to
00:08:58 --> 00:08:59 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Yeah, It is.
00:08:59 --> 00:09:00 It is.
00:09:00 --> 00:09:04 Now, Lantros started it about six years ago or so.
00:09:05 --> 00:09:06 Was that the first business you started?
00:09:07 --> 00:09:08 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: No, I was a, I founded a company before,
00:09:09 --> 00:09:13 in my early 20s, when I was much younger, dumber, more ego, all that.
00:09:13 --> 00:09:15 Which is a great mix of things, you know.
00:09:15 --> 00:09:18 So, you know, worked on that, and it was, you know, it was one of
00:09:18 --> 00:09:19 those things, it was the right idea.
00:09:20 --> 00:09:22 It was just, I wasn't ready for it yet.
00:09:22 --> 00:09:26 I made a ton of mistakes and, you know, learned a lot through all those mistakes.
00:09:27 --> 00:09:29 So I, yeah, I had started a company before and, you know,
00:09:29 --> 00:09:30 worked on it for a few years.
00:09:31 --> 00:09:32 Never took the full dive.
00:09:32 --> 00:09:33 I never burned the ships.
00:09:33 --> 00:09:35 And I think that's also an issue.
00:09:35 --> 00:09:38 I tried to, you know, kind of side gig it while I was
00:09:38 --> 00:09:39 making money doing other stuff.
00:09:39 --> 00:09:42 And, you know, you can spread yourself too thin.
00:09:42 --> 00:09:45 And, you know, I definitely learned that lesson too.
00:09:45 --> 00:09:47 Like if you're going to do something.
00:09:48 --> 00:09:50 I mean, if you know how to do it on the side, please tell me how to
00:09:50 --> 00:09:53 do that because it would be nice to make a nice, you know, normal
00:09:53 --> 00:09:55 salary and be able to do this.
00:09:57 --> 00:09:57 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Right?
00:09:57 --> 00:10:02 I think that's with so much I get doing it on the side, but
00:10:02 --> 00:10:04 you also have that safety net
00:10:04 --> 00:10:04 behind you.
00:10:04 --> 00:10:08 And sometimes that safety net causes you not to jump,
00:10:08 --> 00:10:09 even though it's there.
00:10:09 --> 00:10:14 You're thinking, Oh, that'll keep me going, but it actually
00:10:14 --> 00:10:15 causes you not to go as
00:10:15 --> 00:10:18 hard or at least in my experience.
00:10:18 --> 00:10:18 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: too.
00:10:19 --> 00:10:20 Mine too.
00:10:20 --> 00:10:22 You know, and, and look, I'm not saying like the moment you
00:10:22 --> 00:10:23 have an idea, quit your job and
00:10:24 --> 00:10:27 mortgage, you know, like there's obviously that kind of tapering off, but.
00:10:28 --> 00:10:31 There has to be a point where you burn the ships and like, this is it.
00:10:31 --> 00:10:33 There's no, there's no net and I'm on the tightrope.
00:10:33 --> 00:10:34 You got to figure it out.
00:10:36 --> 00:10:36 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Right.
00:10:36 --> 00:10:42 If, if I quit a job or changed every time I have an idea I'd
00:10:42 --> 00:10:43 be doing three things this
00:10:43 --> 00:10:44 afternoon.
00:10:44 --> 00:10:44 So.
00:10:46 --> 00:10:51 Now, I think you said you, you'd worked in some startups and stuff, but it sounds
00:10:51 --> 00:10:53 like you weren't a coder or engineer.
00:10:54 --> 00:10:57 So how did you, you get started building land trust?
00:10:58 --> 00:10:59 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: Definitely not an engineer.
00:10:59 --> 00:11:00 I wish I was.
00:11:00 --> 00:11:01 It would make my life easier.
00:11:01 --> 00:11:05 I'm a sales guy, you know, that's just kind of how I've made my
00:11:05 --> 00:11:06 living up until this point.
00:11:07 --> 00:11:10 So, you know, you have to, I mean, the good thing about
00:11:10 --> 00:11:11 sales is everything is sales.
00:11:12 --> 00:11:13 You know, you have to sell.
00:11:14 --> 00:11:14 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Oh yeah.
00:11:14 --> 00:11:16 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: sell your initial employees on
00:11:16 --> 00:11:17 the idea that you're working on.
00:11:17 --> 00:11:21 It's worth taking a risk on it and spending some time on sell investors
00:11:21 --> 00:11:23 that this is the right idea to invest in.
00:11:23 --> 00:11:26 Even in your personal life, you have to sell your wife on the idea that you're
00:11:26 --> 00:11:28 a good wagon to hitch themselves to.
00:11:28 --> 00:11:28 Right.
00:11:28 --> 00:11:34 So for me, it was idea, I had a co founder originally, we were working
00:11:34 --> 00:11:37 on this and then, you know, yeah, go find the engineering talent who
00:11:37 --> 00:11:39 can actually build the website.
00:11:39 --> 00:11:39 Cause I can't do that
00:11:40 --> 00:11:41 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Right.
00:11:41 --> 00:11:42 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: just start working on it.
00:11:42 --> 00:11:43 We raised a little bit of money.
00:11:45 --> 00:11:49 So in June of 19, we raised our first 100, 000 of investment
00:11:50 --> 00:11:53 and then July 1st of 19, I.
00:11:53 --> 00:11:57 Quit my well paying job and you know, that was kind of the
00:11:57 --> 00:11:58 burning burning the ship's moment.
00:11:59 --> 00:12:03 August 5th, we had our first daughter so with no insurance, it costs 12, 000
00:12:03 --> 00:12:05 to have a baby at a hospital in Bozeman.
00:12:05 --> 00:12:06 Just FYI.
00:12:06 --> 00:12:10 So, but yeah, so we took that first 100, 000 and, you know, started paying
00:12:10 --> 00:12:12 developers to actually build the product.
00:12:12 --> 00:12:15 And then October 2nd of 19 is when the actual website went live.
00:12:16 --> 00:12:18 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: When you got that first hundred thousand, did
00:12:18 --> 00:12:24 you think, was that the validation you needed to jump whole hog into it?
00:12:24 --> 00:12:29 Or had you already decided, hey this is a great idea I'm pursuing, whether
00:12:29 --> 00:12:31 or not we get this, we'll get some
00:12:32 --> 00:12:33 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: Yeah, it's probably the latter.
00:12:33 --> 00:12:38 Like, this was the, you know, This idea clearly, I mean, almost six years later I
00:12:38 --> 00:12:40 mean, it's the right, it's the right idea.
00:12:40 --> 00:12:42 Ideas, by the way, are worth, ideas are worth nothing.
00:12:43 --> 00:12:43 Execute,
00:12:43 --> 00:12:44 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Right, yeah.
00:12:44 --> 00:12:46 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: This isn't my idea, it's just an idea.
00:12:46 --> 00:12:48 I'm just gonna be the guy, hopefully, that executes it best.
00:12:49 --> 00:12:51 It's funny, over the years, the amount of people who've called me up
00:12:51 --> 00:12:53 and said, Ah, man, I had that idea.
00:12:54 --> 00:12:55 Well, what did you do with it?
00:12:55 --> 00:12:57 So I'm always clear, this is not my idea.
00:12:58 --> 00:12:59 The idea of land trust is just an idea.
00:13:00 --> 00:13:03 But yeah, I mean, I knew I was going to work on it and the, that first hundred
00:13:03 --> 00:13:08 thousand dollars of investment was the, gave me the ability to say, okay,
00:13:08 --> 00:13:12 I had, it gives me X amount of months of runway to, and I knew I was going
00:13:12 --> 00:13:13 to, I was going to raise more money.
00:13:13 --> 00:13:14 That was just the first bit of money.
00:13:15 --> 00:13:16 was okay.
00:13:16 --> 00:13:17 Now's the time.
00:13:17 --> 00:13:17 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Yeah,
00:13:17 --> 00:13:18 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: But it wasn't
00:13:18 --> 00:13:20 like, if I don't raise this money, I'm not going to do this thing.
00:13:20 --> 00:13:22 I'm going to do it either way.
00:13:22 --> 00:13:22 Mm
00:13:23 --> 00:13:25 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: yeah, and that makes sense.
00:13:25 --> 00:13:30 When you, you got the money, you got, got the coding going,
00:13:30 --> 00:13:31 you got the website live.
00:13:32 --> 00:13:34 How did that initially go?
00:13:34 --> 00:13:37 Was there a receptive audience?
00:13:37 --> 00:13:42 Had you already built relationships with landowners to have land available?
00:13:42 --> 00:13:45 Or how did that early journey go for you on land trust?
00:13:46 --> 00:13:48 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: So, yeah, so that summer before, so
00:13:48 --> 00:13:50 we launched a website October 2nd.
00:13:50 --> 00:13:54 The summer, you know, July, August, September, I was, you know, while
00:13:54 --> 00:13:57 the developers are building a website, I'm hustling around trying
00:13:57 --> 00:14:01 to beg, borrow, steal for any landowner to list their properties.
00:14:01 --> 00:14:03 So LandTrust is a two sided marketplace.
00:14:03 --> 00:14:05 There's a supply side and a demand side.
00:14:05 --> 00:14:08 Marketplaces are really difficult to get going because in the beginning, it's
00:14:08 --> 00:14:10 the chicken and the egg problem, right?
00:14:11 --> 00:14:11 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Right.
00:14:11 --> 00:14:12 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: Landowners don't want to be there
00:14:12 --> 00:14:14 unless there's guests there and guests don't want to be there unless there's
00:14:14 --> 00:14:19 landowners, you know So you got to try to like basically will it into existence?
00:14:20 --> 00:14:22 so funny enough
00:14:24 --> 00:14:26 We actually launched land trust in New Jersey
00:14:28 --> 00:14:28 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Oh,
00:14:28 --> 00:14:31 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: I was based, you know, we're based in Montana,
00:14:31 --> 00:14:35 but I found of New Jersey farmer, and if you guys have never been to New
00:14:35 --> 00:14:39 Jersey, you're listeners, you know, New Jersey doesn't look like Newark.
00:14:39 --> 00:14:40 Most of New Jersey, it's the Garden State.
00:14:40 --> 00:14:41 Like, it's beautiful.
00:14:41 --> 00:14:42 It's a,
00:14:42 --> 00:14:45 it's, you know, serious farm, you know, serious farm country.
00:14:46 --> 00:14:50 So we found a farmer, he's probably around my age, you know, he's kind of taking
00:14:50 --> 00:14:53 things over, and he's like, I got, you know, seven, I think he had seven or ten
00:14:53 --> 00:14:56 farms, anywhere from like 60 to 180 acre.
00:14:57 --> 00:14:58 All over kind of central New Jersey.
00:14:59 --> 00:15:00 It's like, all right, I'll list it with you.
00:15:00 --> 00:15:04 And so, yeah, we had seven, eight, nine listings.
00:15:05 --> 00:15:09 And so we, you know, went and posted on hunting forums in New Jersey.
00:15:09 --> 00:15:15 And you know, once the site was live well setting the site live was like the
00:15:15 --> 00:15:18 day, the night before I'm thinking to myself, what the hell did I just do?
00:15:19 --> 00:15:21 Like I left a, I left a good paying job.
00:15:21 --> 00:15:23 I have a month old, two month old baby.
00:15:23 --> 00:15:25 My first, our first kid.
00:15:25 --> 00:15:27 I'm like, this is not, never going to work.
00:15:27 --> 00:15:28 This is never going to work.
00:15:28 --> 00:15:29 It's not going to happen.
00:15:29 --> 00:15:33 I mean, like, especially like those, those doubt moments, those fear moments.
00:15:33 --> 00:15:33 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Oh,
00:15:33 --> 00:15:34 yes.
00:15:34 --> 00:15:36 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: know, they hit you acutely before
00:15:36 --> 00:15:37 something like discrete like that.
00:15:37 --> 00:15:41 Like you can kind of tell yourself, Oh, when the website's live, it all go well.
00:15:41 --> 00:15:44 But then when you're like pressing go, you're like, this isn't going to work.
00:15:44 --> 00:15:46 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: And you're sitting there then waiting on that
00:15:46 --> 00:15:48 first person to do
00:15:48 --> 00:15:49 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: Yeah, it was too, I think it
00:15:49 --> 00:15:53 was seven to 14 days for the first booking to come through.
00:15:54 --> 00:15:54 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Oh,
00:15:54 --> 00:15:54 yes.
00:15:54 --> 00:15:56 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: it was amazing when it happened,
00:15:56 --> 00:15:57 but it just excruciating.
00:15:57 --> 00:15:58 You're like, Oh my God, what am I going to
00:15:58 --> 00:15:59 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Oh, yeah.
00:16:01 --> 00:16:01 Yeah.
00:16:01 --> 00:16:04 And of course, you look back upon it, you think a week to two
00:16:04 --> 00:16:06 weeks, get the first booking.
00:16:06 --> 00:16:07 That wasn't bad getting it all
00:16:07 --> 00:16:08 going and stuff.
00:16:08 --> 00:16:11 But when you're in those seven to 14 days,
00:16:11 --> 00:16:12 it feels like a long
00:16:12 --> 00:16:13 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: Excruciating.
00:16:13 --> 00:16:16 Uh, yeah, and, you know, it was cool.
00:16:16 --> 00:16:19 That first booking happened, and the review came in, and it was an amazing
00:16:19 --> 00:16:21 review, and you're like, yeah, this is it.
00:16:21 --> 00:16:22 This is the right thing.
00:16:22 --> 00:16:24 Now we need to do a lot more faster.
00:16:25 --> 00:16:26 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Oh, yeah.
00:16:27 --> 00:16:32 So let's, let's switch gears just a little bit, but continue down
00:16:32 --> 00:16:34 that path about the landowner.
00:16:34 --> 00:16:37 Tell us how land trust benefits a landowner.
00:16:37 --> 00:16:37 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: Sure.
00:16:39 --> 00:16:43 So, I'll start by saying, you know, today we're around a million and a half acres.
00:16:43 --> 00:16:45 We're getting real close to a million and a half, like 1.
00:16:45 --> 00:16:46 4 something.
00:16:46 --> 00:16:48 And we're in 42 states.
00:16:48 --> 00:16:52 Most of our landowners today are owner operator production agriculture.
00:16:52 --> 00:16:56 Meaning, you know, multi generation farm and ranch families
00:16:56 --> 00:16:57 who live and work the ground.
00:16:58 --> 00:17:01 That landowner, you know, we found our way to them.
00:17:02 --> 00:17:04 We tried a bunch of different types of landowners in the beginning.
00:17:04 --> 00:17:05 Like, you're just trying stuff, right?
00:17:05 --> 00:17:07 Who, who, who's this going to resonate with, essentially?
00:17:08 --> 00:17:09 But we found our way to them.
00:17:10 --> 00:17:12 And for, so, you know, I set that stage.
00:17:12 --> 00:17:17 So for that type of landowner especially, because it's really the heart and soul of
00:17:17 --> 00:17:22 who we serve today, not saying we don't have other types of landowners too, but
00:17:22 --> 00:17:24 historically, like, they're running a business operation, as you know, right?
00:17:24 --> 00:17:27 Farming and ranching, it's a business, it's an operation, it's gotta be
00:17:27 --> 00:17:28 profitable, they gotta make money.
00:17:29 --> 00:17:33 So historically if you just take hunting, now of course we do more than hunting,
00:17:33 --> 00:17:36 but if you just take hunting a farmer or a rancher who has ground that has, you
00:17:36 --> 00:17:40 know, hunting value, the way they would be able to monetize that in the past
00:17:40 --> 00:17:43 is essentially through leases, right?
00:17:43 --> 00:17:46 So you'd, you'd do a hunting lease and it's a year, multi year, whatever it is,
00:17:47 --> 00:17:50 whether it be to individuals, an outfit, or a club, whatever it might be, right?
00:17:51 --> 00:17:55 And so, you know, the benefit of it is, is you get a check, right?
00:17:55 --> 00:17:59 So, hey, here's 20 grand and, you know, for the year, whatever
00:17:59 --> 00:18:00 it might be, that's great.
00:18:01 --> 00:18:05 But what we have heard hundreds, now thousands of times from these
00:18:05 --> 00:18:10 production ag landowners is yeah, the check is great, but then we
00:18:10 --> 00:18:11 just sold a property right away.
00:18:12 --> 00:18:16 So a couple of things, one, if someone hands you a check and we've heard
00:18:16 --> 00:18:18 this a bunch like, hey, if someone gives you 20, 30, 000 bucks, it's not.
00:18:19 --> 00:18:20 That's not nothing.
00:18:20 --> 00:18:22 They start to feel like they're owners in the land.
00:18:23 --> 00:18:27 You know, a lot of times, I remember my wife's from Kansas and I went down there
00:18:27 --> 00:18:30 to start getting Kansas ground on and the farmers would tell me that, like,
00:18:30 --> 00:18:34 yeah, the guy wrote me a check for 20 grand to hunt deer down here, great.
00:18:35 --> 00:18:38 But then he's, like, telling me to change my ag practices and he's
00:18:38 --> 00:18:41 calling my, like, my hands to go put stands up or move cameras.
00:18:41 --> 00:18:42 Like, that's not what this is, right?
00:18:42 --> 00:18:44 This is just You just paid for access to my land.
00:18:44 --> 00:18:45 They hunt deer.
00:18:45 --> 00:18:48 They're there, you know, so that was an issue.
00:18:48 --> 00:18:51 But then there's also the other issue of, again, you sold a property right away.
00:18:51 --> 00:18:56 So your kids, yourself, your friends, your family, your neighbors, they
00:18:56 --> 00:18:59 don't get to use that resource now because you sold the right
00:18:59 --> 00:18:59 away.
00:19:00 --> 00:19:05 And You know, most of our lanterns are in rural, small communities,
00:19:05 --> 00:19:07 and that tension is real.
00:19:08 --> 00:19:10 Like, people understand you need to monetize and make money, or
00:19:10 --> 00:19:12 else you're gonna have to sell.
00:19:12 --> 00:19:15 So they get it, but at the same time, it's like, Hey, we used to be able
00:19:15 --> 00:19:18 to go hunt the Johnson's Place on opening weekend, and now we can't.
00:19:18 --> 00:19:20 And so that tension is tough.
00:19:21 --> 00:19:21 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: yeah.
00:19:21 --> 00:19:23 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: And so what they love about land
00:19:23 --> 00:19:28 trust is they stay a hundred percent in control so they can block out the
00:19:28 --> 00:19:31 first week or the week in November or whatever, or they can say, Hey, look,
00:19:31 --> 00:19:34 my family, we really like to hunt white tails, but we got turkeys and ducks.
00:19:34 --> 00:19:35 We've got a farm pond.
00:19:35 --> 00:19:37 You can fish, you can come camp, whatever.
00:19:37 --> 00:19:38 There's all this other stuff you can do.
00:19:39 --> 00:19:42 So they get to really just retain control and then monetize
00:19:42 --> 00:19:45 whatever, you know, they don't use.
00:19:45 --> 00:19:47 And that's like a really big factor for them.
00:19:49 --> 00:19:49 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Right.
00:19:49 --> 00:19:53 When, when I think about that as you're talking, you know, I've got
00:19:53 --> 00:19:57 one property that I lease that I lease hunting out on it as well
00:19:57 --> 00:20:00 and it, it affects what I'm doing.
00:20:00 --> 00:20:04 Of course if I'm was doing it through a program like yours, it would still
00:20:04 --> 00:20:10 affect what I'm doing but there's things that I don't or I can't do now because
00:20:10 --> 00:20:13 I've leased all the hunting rights out for the year on that property.
00:20:14 --> 00:20:16 So yeah, I do get that.
00:20:16 --> 00:20:17 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: Well, and the same thing.
00:20:17 --> 00:20:21 And, you know, the, what I often say is, you know, someone who books a three
00:20:21 --> 00:20:25 day, you know, hunt or whatever on your property through land trust, they
00:20:25 --> 00:20:26 don't feel like that on your property.
00:20:26 --> 00:20:29 Like it's very clear, like, Hey, this is just, we're good to just
00:20:29 --> 00:20:32 get an opportunity to come out and enjoy ourselves on a piece of ground.
00:20:32 --> 00:20:34 And have it to ourselves for a few days.
00:20:34 --> 00:20:38 The expectations are much different than if someone writes you a 15, 20,
00:20:38 --> 00:20:42 000 check for a year, a couple of years, you know, that's a very different
00:20:42 --> 00:20:42 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Oh, yeah.
00:20:44 --> 00:20:46 Nick, you've mentioned hunting and fishing.
00:20:46 --> 00:20:49 Are those your main two uses you see for land trust?
00:20:49 --> 00:20:51 Are there any other uses?
00:20:51 --> 00:20:52 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: It's a good question.
00:20:52 --> 00:20:54 So, of course, I started with hunting and, and, and I always knew,
00:20:54 --> 00:20:58 like, we're not a hunting company, we're a land use company, right?
00:20:58 --> 00:21:00 Hunting is hunting is a very big kind of pillar.
00:21:00 --> 00:21:02 But we're getting into camping.
00:21:02 --> 00:21:06 People book foraging, shed hunting you know, birding and birdwatching
00:21:06 --> 00:21:10 is something that, you know, I think is an area of opportunity expansion
00:21:10 --> 00:21:11 for us as we continue to grow.
00:21:12 --> 00:21:16 And then, you know, the category that I think I'm most excited about is what
00:21:16 --> 00:21:18 we call farm and ranch experiences.
00:21:19 --> 00:21:21 So in different regions of the country.
00:21:22 --> 00:21:23 I think, you know, they'll look differently.
00:21:23 --> 00:21:28 So in Montana, we've had people offering kind of regenerative grazing tours or
00:21:28 --> 00:21:30 you know, brandings or stuff like that.
00:21:30 --> 00:21:31 That's more cattle operation oriented.
00:21:32 --> 00:21:36 I was just down in one we have a beautiful new property in southwest Louisiana.
00:21:37 --> 00:21:39 There are 6, 000 acres of rice, so they do rice production and then they put
00:21:39 --> 00:21:41 crawfish on it during that time of year.
00:21:42 --> 00:21:46 So we were down there gator hunting, but a property like that can do gators,
00:21:46 --> 00:21:51 waterfowl, birding, and then when and then do rice, kind of rice tours.
00:21:51 --> 00:21:52 And when I say,
00:21:52 --> 00:21:55 when I say tours, that's maybe not even the right term.
00:21:55 --> 00:21:59 More of like a, This is not ticketed, you know, it's not like
00:21:59 --> 00:22:01 there's 60 people who bought tickets and you're gonna take a tour.
00:22:02 --> 00:22:06 This is like one, one group, one family or, you know, group of friends is booking,
00:22:06 --> 00:22:07 you know, this experience, you know.
00:22:07 --> 00:22:10 I think today more so than ever, people are more interested in where
00:22:10 --> 00:22:13 their food's coming from and kind of like what it takes to do production.
00:22:14 --> 00:22:18 And then, you know, that same property is going to do crawfish experiences during
00:22:18 --> 00:22:22 crawfish season where you could go book, you know, book it for a weekend, go out,
00:22:22 --> 00:22:25 pull your own, you know, crawfish traps, do a boil, drink some beers, learn about
00:22:25 --> 00:22:27 the whole thing, have a great time.
00:22:27 --> 00:22:30 I think that farm and ranch experience is going to be probably
00:22:30 --> 00:22:31 one of the biggest categories.
00:22:32 --> 00:22:35 I love it for our landowners because one, it's profitable.
00:22:35 --> 00:22:37 Like if you think about what they sell, what they get per pound for a
00:22:37 --> 00:22:41 crawfish in that, in that example, you know, in the commodity markets
00:22:41 --> 00:22:44 versus what they'll make per pound at a booking, like, you know, it's
00:22:44 --> 00:22:50 orders of magnitude bigger, but two, it's reconnecting the non
00:22:50 --> 00:22:51 producing public with the producers.
00:22:51 --> 00:22:55 And to me, like from an ethos perspective, like, yeah, of course I want to build a
00:22:55 --> 00:23:01 big profitable business, but I also at an ethos level would love to just continue
00:23:01 --> 00:23:03 to see us bring back, bring, bring back.
00:23:04 --> 00:23:07 The non producing public back together with the producers to understand
00:23:07 --> 00:23:10 them seed all the great work they do.
00:23:10 --> 00:23:14 You know, there's so much BS that's put out in kind of mainstream media about
00:23:14 --> 00:23:16 farming and ranching, killing the planet.
00:23:16 --> 00:23:18 Like it, it's just, it's absurd.
00:23:18 --> 00:23:21 And the best way to kind of defeat those narratives is to go out
00:23:21 --> 00:23:22 and actually like see the ground.
00:23:22 --> 00:23:25 Meet the people and hear it from themselves.
00:23:25 --> 00:23:30 You know, there's a lot of like, lobbying ag, agvocates, how they say it in DC, and
00:23:30 --> 00:23:34 like, I guess that's a necessary thing, but what could be better than one on
00:23:34 --> 00:23:36 one, you know, spending time with people?
00:23:37 --> 00:23:39 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Oh yeah, building that relationship with
00:23:39 --> 00:23:41 someone, even if it's just a few days,
00:23:41 --> 00:23:43 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: Absolutely, a day, two days, exactly.
00:23:43 --> 00:23:43 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: yeah.
00:23:44 --> 00:23:48 Getting, getting people that's been away from the farm for multiple
00:23:48 --> 00:23:50 generations at this point, for many of
00:23:51 --> 00:23:51 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: 99 percent of
00:23:51 --> 00:23:52 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: back onto the
00:23:52 --> 00:23:55 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: yeah, it's 98 or 99 percent of us that
00:23:56 --> 00:23:59 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Yeah, which is, which is crazy.
00:23:59 --> 00:24:03 Of course, growing up on a farm and doing it now, that number's crazy
00:24:03 --> 00:24:05 to me, but I can see it firsthand.
00:24:05 --> 00:24:06 My brothers.
00:24:06 --> 00:24:09 kids, my sister kids, my nieces and nephews.
00:24:11 --> 00:24:14 My brother and my nephew came out and helped us work
00:24:14 --> 00:24:17 cattle one day, which was, was great, but it was also
00:24:17 --> 00:24:20 hilarious because you can see how far they've moved
00:24:20 --> 00:24:21 away already.
00:24:22 --> 00:24:23 It's always interesting.
00:24:24 --> 00:24:28 Cal: At Redmond, we know that you thrive when your animals do.
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00:25:23 --> 00:25:25 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Now you mentioned some other uses there.
00:25:25 --> 00:25:30 Are you finding right now that 70 percent of land trust is hunting and
00:25:30 --> 00:25:34 fishing and 30 percent these other uses or how's that balance right
00:25:34 --> 00:25:36 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: Yeah, so I would say the predominant,
00:25:36 --> 00:25:37 predominant hunting and fishing.
00:25:37 --> 00:25:40 So I'd say probably 85 90 percent still.
00:25:40 --> 00:25:41 Now it's starting to grow and expand.
00:25:42 --> 00:25:45 So these other things are still, you know, if a landowner is listening,
00:25:45 --> 00:25:47 they say, Oh, I want to do farm and ranch experiences on my place.
00:25:47 --> 00:25:49 I would say absolutely come and list it with us.
00:25:49 --> 00:25:50 And
00:25:51 --> 00:25:54 we'll market it, but you know, we're still learning those businesses and
00:25:54 --> 00:25:56 how to generate demand for them.
00:25:56 --> 00:26:00 So, you know, but if, you know, hunting and fishing is like straightforward.
00:26:00 --> 00:26:01 We got that down pretty well.
00:26:03 --> 00:26:03 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Oh,
00:26:03 --> 00:26:04 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: But for a landowner, it's like it doesn't
00:26:04 --> 00:26:06 cost you anything to kind of work with us.
00:26:06 --> 00:26:07 We're business partners.
00:26:07 --> 00:26:09 We don't sell you anything.
00:26:09 --> 00:26:11 We, you know, we sit on the same side of the table.
00:26:11 --> 00:26:12 So we only make money when you do.
00:26:12 --> 00:26:14 We make commission on bookings.
00:26:15 --> 00:26:17 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: When you think about your present
00:26:17 --> 00:26:22 landowners How many bookings are they getting a year on average?
00:26:23 --> 00:26:24 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: Oh, it's a good question.
00:26:24 --> 00:26:25 And the answer is it depends.
00:26:26 --> 00:26:27 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: know that's a tough
00:26:27 --> 00:26:28 answer to even come up with.
00:26:28 --> 00:26:29 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: it depends, right?
00:26:29 --> 00:26:31 So again, we're in 42 states now.
00:26:31 --> 00:26:34 You know, you look at a state like Montana, which is our most mature state.
00:26:34 --> 00:26:37 I think we have, I don't know, 150 landowners, probably a half
00:26:37 --> 00:26:39 million acres there, maybe more.
00:26:39 --> 00:26:41 It's a mature market.
00:26:41 --> 00:26:43 And so, you know, those landowners are probably doing more bookings
00:26:43 --> 00:26:47 than when we get, like, our first property in a new state.
00:26:48 --> 00:26:51 Now, I will say we have 30, 000 sportsmen all, I think they
00:26:51 --> 00:26:53 represent every state in the country.
00:26:53 --> 00:26:54 Who use land trust.
00:26:54 --> 00:26:58 So now we are getting much better and faster at producing
00:26:58 --> 00:27:01 bookings for landowners when they come on in new states.
00:27:01 --> 00:27:03 It all depends on what they want to offer.
00:27:03 --> 00:27:06 Like, you know, and what the pricing is.
00:27:06 --> 00:27:07 Like, it's real pure market dynamics here.
00:27:07 --> 00:27:12 So let's just say if you had five acres and you wanted to offer squirrel
00:27:12 --> 00:27:14 hunting and you wanted to charge 10, 000 for it, you'll get zero bookings.
00:27:15 --> 00:27:18 You know, so it's really like, it's hard to answer that question because it's
00:27:18 --> 00:27:20 really truly what does the land offer.
00:27:21 --> 00:27:24 How, you know, what experiences are you willing to let people have?
00:27:24 --> 00:27:25 What pricing do you have?
00:27:25 --> 00:27:26 Do you have lodging?
00:27:26 --> 00:27:29 So there's a lot of that that makes it hard to answer that question.
00:27:30 --> 00:27:32 But I mean, I think on average, our landowners and like an average
00:27:32 --> 00:27:35 landowner is earning like anywhere between five and 10, 000 a year.
00:27:36 --> 00:27:37 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Oh, yes, yeah,
00:27:37 --> 00:27:39 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: I don't wanna say best, our best
00:27:39 --> 00:27:43 performing landowners are, I think last year is up to 90, 000.
00:27:44 --> 00:27:45 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Oh, wow.
00:27:46 --> 00:27:52 Yeah, when you You mentioned a couple things there I'd like to follow up
00:27:52 --> 00:27:59 on the first thing is If someone were they're looking at landowner, but I'm
00:27:59 --> 00:28:04 not interested in hunting and fishing you think it's still worthwhile to
00:28:04 --> 00:28:09 go ahead and list that for those farm experiences or, or other opportunities?
00:28:09 --> 00:28:10 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: absolutely.
00:28:10 --> 00:28:14 Because here's the thing with a marketplace like ours, there's
00:28:14 --> 00:28:15 what's called network effects.
00:28:16 --> 00:28:20 And so if, if there's only one farm and ranch experience listed on Land Trust,
00:28:20 --> 00:28:24 it's much harder to generate demand for it than when there's a thousand.
00:28:24 --> 00:28:28 And so what I would say is, get, you know, if it's interesting to you,
00:28:28 --> 00:28:29 call us and talk to us, by the way.
00:28:29 --> 00:28:30 Like, we're people.
00:28:30 --> 00:28:32 You don't have to go figure it out on your own on our website.
00:28:32 --> 00:28:34 We have an onboarding team who are awesome.
00:28:34 --> 00:28:36 They do everything for you.
00:28:36 --> 00:28:38 We talk to our customers and our landowners every day, all day.
00:28:39 --> 00:28:42 So we're, like I said, I don't really like to refer to ourselves
00:28:42 --> 00:28:45 as a technology company or much more of a service oriented business.
00:28:46 --> 00:28:50 But you know, my point is, well, I wouldn't say, Hey, we're going to
00:28:50 --> 00:28:53 get you a 20, 000 of bookings today.
00:28:53 --> 00:28:56 The fact that you're listing, it's free to list.
00:28:56 --> 00:28:57 We'll build it for you.
00:28:57 --> 00:28:58 Like it doesn't cost you anything.
00:28:58 --> 00:29:02 The more people, the more that offer those farm and ranch experiences,
00:29:02 --> 00:29:06 especially in specific regions, the more we can generate demand for it.
00:29:06 --> 00:29:08 So that's what a network effect is.
00:29:08 --> 00:29:12 Sure.
00:29:12 --> 00:29:15 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: question to go along with, with that is acreage size.
00:29:16 --> 00:29:21 Are you, are you saying, hey, you should have x number of acres or
00:29:22 --> 00:29:24 how, how are you approaching that?
00:29:24 --> 00:29:25 How's landowner approaching that?
00:29:27 --> 00:29:28 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: I hate to give you the, it
00:29:28 --> 00:29:29 depends again, but it does depend.
00:29:30 --> 00:29:33 So, you know, look, there could, you could have 10 acres, but if you
00:29:33 --> 00:29:36 have a three acre pond with great fishing and a little place to camp.
00:29:37 --> 00:29:40 And, you know, timber around it with a couple of trees in it.
00:29:40 --> 00:29:42 Like you could absolutely list that.
00:29:42 --> 00:29:44 And I think regionally it's very different, right?
00:29:44 --> 00:29:49 So it's about what, what does the land have access to, or maybe you're, you
00:29:49 --> 00:29:52 know, you're 10, 15 acres and you back up to a big section of public land.
00:29:53 --> 00:29:56 So, you know, that could be base camp and then you can go and access
00:29:56 --> 00:29:57 and have fun on the public land too.
00:29:58 --> 00:30:03 So it's really not like, Now a half acre was probably, you know,
00:30:03 --> 00:30:06 again, probably not, going to do it.
00:30:07 --> 00:30:09 I'll never say absolutely not because again, I don't know
00:30:09 --> 00:30:10 what's on that half acre.
00:30:10 --> 00:30:16 But you know, I wouldn't say if you've got 15, 20, 40 acres that
00:30:16 --> 00:30:17 you shouldn't be considering.
00:30:17 --> 00:30:19 And it all depends on what's on it.
00:30:19 --> 00:30:22 And we have people who are listing that kind of stuff and maybe they have 10 acres
00:30:22 --> 00:30:24 of timber and it's really productive.
00:30:24 --> 00:30:27 There's, they've got turkeys in Whitetail and they've got a pond
00:30:27 --> 00:30:28 right there and like, why not?
00:30:28 --> 00:30:32 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Looking for a certain size place before they're
00:30:32 --> 00:30:36 wanting to go hunting there I'm assuming the answer is going to be it kind
00:30:36 --> 00:30:39 of depends on where you're located and what people are looking for But
00:30:41 --> 00:30:43 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: no, you know, I would say like,
00:30:44 --> 00:30:46 it's kind of like a Airbnb, right?
00:30:46 --> 00:30:47 I explained it like this.
00:30:47 --> 00:30:47 It's a marketplace.
00:30:47 --> 00:30:52 So Airbnb has everything from a 20 a night hostel to a 20, 000 a night castle.
00:30:52 --> 00:30:57 And so as long as, you know, that breadth of range on supply is important.
00:30:58 --> 00:31:02 And so, you know, we'll see 25 bookings come through and we'll see.
00:31:02 --> 00:31:07 15, 000 bookings come through and, you know, it really depends.
00:31:07 --> 00:31:10 So, you know, people might book something to go squirrel hunting.
00:31:10 --> 00:31:13 We've got a guy, he books squirrel hunts all over the country with us.
00:31:13 --> 00:31:16 He just like, he is rabid, a rabid squirrel hunter.
00:31:16 --> 00:31:20 And yeah, those are small bookings and he doesn't need, you know, huge acreage.
00:31:20 --> 00:31:23 And so I, you know, it really, it, it totally depends what
00:31:23 --> 00:31:25 the property is itself.
00:31:25 --> 00:31:26 Properties are really unique, you know?
00:31:28 --> 00:31:31 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Right, and I know we just released the episode with
00:31:31 --> 00:31:35 Taylor on talking about what he's doing on his farm, which is not
00:31:35 --> 00:31:38 hunting and, well, he's doing a little bit of hunting because he planted
00:31:38 --> 00:31:38 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: doves, I
00:31:39 --> 00:31:40 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: did some dove hunting, Yeah.
00:31:41 --> 00:31:41 yeah.
00:31:41 --> 00:31:45 but then farm tours and, and photography, which is something
00:31:45 --> 00:31:46 I hadn't even thought about.
00:31:46 --> 00:31:47 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: Yep.
00:31:47 --> 00:31:51 I mean, we've, we've had, you know, what we're talking about is land use.
00:31:51 --> 00:31:53 And so if you start thinking about it broadly like that I mean, we've
00:31:53 --> 00:31:57 talked to people who film commercials for, you know, the big truck makers.
00:31:58 --> 00:32:01 You know, you see that, that new truck come out and it's on some
00:32:01 --> 00:32:03 rugged piece of undeveloped land.
00:32:03 --> 00:32:04 They got to shoot that somewhere, right?
00:32:04 --> 00:32:10 We've talked to film offices where, you know, cause if there, to film on
00:32:10 --> 00:32:12 public land, there's all this permits and all that kind of stuff, right?
00:32:12 --> 00:32:16 So, private land is much, much more preferable cause they don't have to go
00:32:16 --> 00:32:17 through all that permitting process.
00:32:17 --> 00:32:21 So, now, I'm not, again, I'm not saying we're going and actively developing
00:32:21 --> 00:32:23 those, those You know, markets of demand.
00:32:23 --> 00:32:24 I'm just,
00:32:25 --> 00:32:25 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Right,
00:32:25 --> 00:32:26 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: talked to military units.
00:32:26 --> 00:32:30 I mean, we've, you know, those guys have come to us and say, hey, again, we want to
00:32:30 --> 00:32:33 do training and same thing on public land.
00:32:33 --> 00:32:35 There's a bunch of restrictions.
00:32:35 --> 00:32:39 So, when you think about more broadly land use it opens it up.
00:32:39 --> 00:32:42 Photography is a great one for sure.
00:32:42 --> 00:32:45 Mm hmm.
00:32:45 --> 00:32:47 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: of times there, you have a onboarding team,
00:32:47 --> 00:32:52 it's, it's free for owners to reach out and find out more information and
00:32:52 --> 00:32:53 to even get their listening on there.
00:32:54 --> 00:32:57 What is the process for a landowner that's interested?
00:32:57 --> 00:32:58 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: I would say if, you know, if any of
00:32:58 --> 00:33:02 this sounds remotely interesting, One, you can go to our website landtrust.
00:33:02 --> 00:33:02 com.
00:33:02 --> 00:33:03 There's a landowner's page.
00:33:03 --> 00:33:06 There's a lot of landowner testimonial videos there.
00:33:06 --> 00:33:07 They're also on our YouTube YouTube channel.
00:33:08 --> 00:33:10 So you can hear from other landowners all over the country,
00:33:10 --> 00:33:13 what their experience has been you know, working with us for years.
00:33:14 --> 00:33:16 And then you can call us or text us.
00:33:16 --> 00:33:18 And again, we're real people.
00:33:18 --> 00:33:20 There's no, like, AI chatbots here.
00:33:20 --> 00:33:23 And Just talk to our team, ask them the questions.
00:33:23 --> 00:33:26 We know that there's always going to be questions and especially, you know,
00:33:26 --> 00:33:31 other family members, we understand that it's never one person's decision.
00:33:31 --> 00:33:34 It's always at least a couple of people involved in this.
00:33:34 --> 00:33:37 So we know that process, we've done it a lot over the past five, six years.
00:33:38 --> 00:33:41 And yeah, there is no, you know.
00:33:41 --> 00:33:43 There's no cost to start working with us.
00:33:43 --> 00:33:47 If it, if you get the green light from whoever it is, the group that gets to say
00:33:47 --> 00:33:53 yes for something like this on your land, then, you know, we will kind of ask you
00:33:53 --> 00:33:54 a bunch of questions about your property.
00:33:54 --> 00:33:56 We'll build out your, a draft of your listing.
00:33:56 --> 00:33:59 We will build digital maps of your listing.
00:33:59 --> 00:33:59 So.
00:34:00 --> 00:34:04 You know, the people, the guests who book it, we work with OnX Maps and Huntwise,
00:34:04 --> 00:34:08 a couple mapping companies, and we'll, you know, you can basically tell us,
00:34:08 --> 00:34:13 hey, it's these couple sections here you know, here's the house, here's the gate,
00:34:13 --> 00:34:16 here's the, you know, we put waypoints, we put property boundaries, we put no
00:34:16 --> 00:34:21 go zones, so full digital maps of your property and, and then you get to review
00:34:21 --> 00:34:23 it, and if it looks good, we set it live.
00:34:24 --> 00:34:25 And we start marketing for you immediately.
00:34:25 --> 00:34:29 So we'll send out new listing, you know, new property emails to our, we have a
00:34:29 --> 00:34:31 database of 75, 000, 80, 000 people.
00:34:32 --> 00:34:35 Hey, there's a new Oklahoma property with, that's offering
00:34:35 --> 00:34:36 Turkey hunting and fishing.
00:34:36 --> 00:34:39 And here it is, you know, so that's our job, right?
00:34:39 --> 00:34:41 We're business partners with our landowners.
00:34:41 --> 00:34:43 You, you know, our, our landowners own the asset.
00:34:43 --> 00:34:45 It's our job to build the technology and to market it.
00:34:47 --> 00:34:50 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: When, what does a landowner need to
00:34:50 --> 00:34:53 know to talk to you about this?
00:34:54 --> 00:34:56 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: Really just, they didn't even
00:34:56 --> 00:34:58 just know their land which is
00:34:58 --> 00:34:59 pretty straightforward for
00:34:59 --> 00:35:01 especially the owner operators.
00:35:01 --> 00:35:05 So, you know, just know what's there, what resources are there, and our team
00:35:05 --> 00:35:08 is good at asking questions to elicit the right kind of answers we're looking for.
00:35:09 --> 00:35:13 And then, honestly photos, we need to have photos of a property.
00:35:13 --> 00:35:18 They don't have to be You know, works of art by any mean, but you know,
00:35:18 --> 00:35:21 getting photography of the property and then at least having a smartphone.
00:35:21 --> 00:35:24 So once it's set up, you can run this, you can run land trust from your phone.
00:35:25 --> 00:35:29 You know, you'll just get text messages from the, from us saying, Hey, you
00:35:29 --> 00:35:32 know, Nick wants to come out and hunt turkeys these dates for, for,
00:35:32 --> 00:35:35 you know, 2000 bucks, you can text me back and forth from your phone.
00:35:35 --> 00:35:37 You can give me a call and talk to me.
00:35:37 --> 00:35:39 Everything is a request.
00:35:39 --> 00:35:41 People can't just book your place.
00:35:42 --> 00:35:45 It's always comes as a request and you can say no for whatever reasons you want.
00:35:45 --> 00:35:48 So it's not like a hotel where it's like, Oh, they just booked it.
00:35:48 --> 00:35:49 I have no say.
00:35:49 --> 00:35:51 So again, it's all about control
00:35:53 --> 00:35:55 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: So the landowner has the opportunity
00:35:55 --> 00:35:56 to say yes, that works,
00:35:56 --> 00:35:57 or no.
00:35:57 --> 00:35:58 that doesn't work for us.
00:35:59 --> 00:36:00 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: And then you can also look at that
00:36:00 --> 00:36:03 sportsman and their, that, that guest and their ratings on land trust.
00:36:03 --> 00:36:03 So after every
00:36:04 --> 00:36:04 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Oh, yes.
00:36:04 --> 00:36:06 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: like Airbnb or Uber or whatever,
00:36:06 --> 00:36:07 you both rate each other.
00:36:07 --> 00:36:11 So you can see their past ratings from other landowners if they've, you
00:36:11 --> 00:36:12 know, booked trips with us before.
00:36:13 --> 00:36:15 So we try to just add a lot of transparency to the process.
00:36:18 --> 00:36:20 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: One thing for a landowner, let's say I'm here
00:36:20 --> 00:36:22 in Oklahoma and I'm contacting you.
00:36:22 --> 00:36:26 Do I need to know anything about the hunting regulations, the
00:36:26 --> 00:36:28 fishing regulations in Oklahoma?
00:36:28 --> 00:36:30 Or is that something that you all will
00:36:30 --> 00:36:31 handle, gathering that
00:36:31 --> 00:36:32 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: yeah, no, you don't.
00:36:32 --> 00:36:36 So, you know, part of our terms of service and we can, I'm sure we'll talk about
00:36:36 --> 00:36:39 kind of like safety and liability and all that, but our terms of service is, this
00:36:39 --> 00:36:44 is a platform that you, the landowner, nor us land trust are responsible for that
00:36:44 --> 00:36:48 guest being fully legally licensed to do whatever activity that they're booking.
00:36:48 --> 00:36:50 That's the onus is on them.
00:36:50 --> 00:36:51 Not on you or us.
00:36:52 --> 00:36:55 We also, you know, we handle kind of like, you know, season dates,
00:36:55 --> 00:36:56 all that kind of stuff, but.
00:36:58 --> 00:37:00 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: And you brought up a point right there about liability.
00:37:00 --> 00:37:04 You're bringing people onto your farm and someone gets hurt.
00:37:05 --> 00:37:06 What's, what's that look
00:37:07 --> 00:37:07 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: Sure.
00:37:07 --> 00:37:10 So this is, I mean, this is a, obviously a very big deal.
00:37:10 --> 00:37:13 So I think we'll, we'll take it as this kind of, we start at the top level.
00:37:13 --> 00:37:19 So 34 of the big ag producing states have some version of state
00:37:19 --> 00:37:20 agritourism liability limitation.
00:37:21 --> 00:37:24 Almost positive Oklahoma is one of those states, but essentially the
00:37:24 --> 00:37:26 state, everything we're talking about if it's happening on production
00:37:26 --> 00:37:28 ag ground is agritourism, right?
00:37:28 --> 00:37:30 So even if it's hunting or fishing or horseback, whatever it
00:37:30 --> 00:37:32 might be, it's, it's ag tourism.
00:37:33 --> 00:37:35 The states want to incentivize this activity because they know it
00:37:35 --> 00:37:37 brings money onto farm and ranch.
00:37:38 --> 00:37:42 So unless there's gross negligence the state is going to be protecting you
00:37:42 --> 00:37:45 from liability in an instance like that.
00:37:45 --> 00:37:48 Now there's, you have to do certain little things like you gotta, in a
00:37:48 --> 00:37:51 lot of states, you have to post some signage, almost like workers comp, right?
00:37:51 --> 00:37:54 It's like, you know, they have some boilerplate language you
00:37:54 --> 00:37:55 post in the barn or wherever.
00:37:56 --> 00:37:57 So there's a couple little things you got to do there.
00:37:57 --> 00:37:58 So then you go to us.
00:37:58 --> 00:38:02 So first, any guests who ever books anything with you
00:38:02 --> 00:38:04 They are accepting our terms of service digitally.
00:38:04 --> 00:38:07 So when they create their account with land trust, they're saying, Hey, I
00:38:07 --> 00:38:10 hold all the land owners harmless for anything I booked through our platform.
00:38:11 --> 00:38:12 Then we do ID verification.
00:38:13 --> 00:38:16 So we are we're using a third party who collects either a
00:38:16 --> 00:38:17 driver's license or passport.
00:38:17 --> 00:38:18 They take a picture of themselves.
00:38:18 --> 00:38:19 We make sure you are who you say you are.
00:38:19 --> 00:38:21 You're paying with a credit card upfront, a hundred percent.
00:38:22 --> 00:38:24 Then you get to general liabilities.
00:38:24 --> 00:38:26 We carry a million dollar per incident, general liability.
00:38:27 --> 00:38:28 And then we carry participant insurance.
00:38:28 --> 00:38:31 So like in the case you mentioned where someone breaks their leg or something
00:38:31 --> 00:38:34 on your property, liable for themselves.
00:38:34 --> 00:38:37 But if they want to be a pain about it, they can come to us and
00:38:37 --> 00:38:38 we carry participant insurance.
00:38:38 --> 00:38:41 So they will cover up to 10, 000 in medical bills.
00:38:42 --> 00:38:44 And then we have property protection, which we self insure.
00:38:45 --> 00:38:47 I think that's 10, 000 per incident.
00:38:47 --> 00:38:50 And then in a lot of states we're partners with farm bureaus and a lot of
00:38:50 --> 00:38:53 farm bureaus have an insurance arm, not all, but a lot of farm bureaus have an
00:38:53 --> 00:38:57 insurance arm and a lot of times they'll sell if you really want to belt and
00:38:57 --> 00:39:02 suspenders it like a agritourism rider that gets a couple hundred bucks a year.
00:39:02 --> 00:39:04 So we, we try to approach it from all directions.
00:39:04 --> 00:39:08 And again, you as a landowner get to rate them afterwards, they rate you.
00:39:08 --> 00:39:10 So you kind of weed people out that way.
00:39:11 --> 00:39:14 But I can say in getting close to six years, we've never had an
00:39:14 --> 00:39:15 incident, you know, knock on wood.
00:39:16 --> 00:39:17 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: oh yeah, yeah.
00:39:18 --> 00:39:21 And, and when you, you think about that rating process afterwards,
00:39:22 --> 00:39:23 there's some accountability
00:39:23 --> 00:39:27 there, and someone comes onto your land knowing that's going
00:39:27 --> 00:39:28 to happen after the fact.
00:39:29 --> 00:39:33 I would think that would cause them to pause before they did something bad,
00:39:33 --> 00:39:33 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: Yeah,
00:39:34 --> 00:39:34 look,
00:39:34 --> 00:39:36 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: because they're never going to get this opportunity again.
00:39:37 --> 00:39:38 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: that's right.
00:39:39 --> 00:39:41 And this is what marketplaces are good at.
00:39:41 --> 00:39:46 Marketplaces are good at adding transparency and trust into transactions
00:39:46 --> 00:39:47 that used to be, have neither.
00:39:48 --> 00:39:48 Right?
00:39:48 --> 00:39:52 So, the fact that we're doing ID verification, you're not anonymous.
00:39:52 --> 00:39:52 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Oh,
00:39:53 --> 00:39:54 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: when I, when I first started this
00:39:54 --> 00:39:58 and I was talking to landowners, You know, I heard the same story no
00:39:58 --> 00:39:59 matter where it was in the country.
00:39:59 --> 00:40:03 Well, we used to let people come out and then something bad happened, right?
00:40:04 --> 00:40:08 And so like eight, nine, eight or nine out of 10 people were all great.
00:40:08 --> 00:40:09 It's the one person, the two
00:40:09 --> 00:40:10 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Mm hmm.
00:40:10 --> 00:40:14 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: And so when you really stripped that away, it
00:40:14 --> 00:40:15 came down to that person being anonymous.
00:40:15 --> 00:40:17 It was someone who knocked on your door,
00:40:17 --> 00:40:18 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Oh, yeah.
00:40:18 --> 00:40:20 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: you know, and they did something wrong.
00:40:21 --> 00:40:22 And you have no idea who they are.
00:40:22 --> 00:40:23 There's no recourse, nothing.
00:40:24 --> 00:40:27 So anonymity truly was like the biggest issue.
00:40:27 --> 00:40:28 If you really looked at it.
00:40:28 --> 00:40:30 So we immediately take that away.
00:40:30 --> 00:40:34 No, you're everyone on our platform is we, we have your government ID, you pay
00:40:34 --> 00:40:37 with the credit card and you're going to get rated afterwards at all that.
00:40:37 --> 00:40:41 Just kind of like the, the kinds of people who would kind of do
00:40:41 --> 00:40:43 the crappy stuff, they avoid us.
00:40:43 --> 00:40:45 And I remember in the beginning, we'd have guys say, Hey, can I just pay cash?
00:40:45 --> 00:40:46 I don't want to do that.
00:40:46 --> 00:40:49 I'm like, Nope, you can't do that because this is all part of trust and safety.
00:40:49 --> 00:40:49 Right.
00:40:52 --> 00:40:52 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Yeah.
00:40:53 --> 00:40:56 With, with that talking through that just a little bit, you
00:40:56 --> 00:40:57 mentioned signage earlier.
00:40:59 --> 00:41:03 Are you all able to provide the, the landowner with that information
00:41:03 --> 00:41:04 about what signage they need?
00:41:04 --> 00:41:06 Do you all provide signage
00:41:06 --> 00:41:09 or is that something you're going to have to go get on your own?
00:41:09 --> 00:41:09 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: Yes.
00:41:09 --> 00:41:11 We, we definitely have signage.
00:41:11 --> 00:41:15 Now if you're in a brand new state for us, we obviously don't have signs yet.
00:41:15 --> 00:41:19 And, and honestly, a lot of this is, I mean, a lot of the
00:41:19 --> 00:41:22 regulations are, Hey, it has to be printed in one inch tall letters.
00:41:22 --> 00:41:25 And it's, again, it's like, it's like a worker's comp style thing that
00:41:25 --> 00:41:28 you post in a, if you had to do it yourself, it'd cost you a dollar.
00:41:28 --> 00:41:29 Five bucks.
00:41:29 --> 00:41:29 I don't know.
00:41:29 --> 00:41:30 It's not, it's not crazy,
00:41:30 --> 00:41:31 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Oh, yeah.
00:41:31 --> 00:41:33 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: but yeah, so every state has some
00:41:33 --> 00:41:34 different little flavor of that.
00:41:34 --> 00:41:38 But it's, think about it almost like a workers comp style posting that goes
00:41:38 --> 00:41:41 into, into a barn or an area like that.
00:41:43 --> 00:41:45 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Now I know in talking to some of our
00:41:45 --> 00:41:49 past guests, they've got some on the farm experiences already.
00:41:49 --> 00:41:53 Not, I say experiences, it's mainly the ones I'm thinking about.
00:41:53 --> 00:41:56 They already have an Airbnb on the farm.
00:41:57 --> 00:42:00 Is that something that can work in conjunction with land trust?
00:42:00 --> 00:42:04 Or does that kind of disqualify them from what you, you are doing at land
00:42:05 --> 00:42:05 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: No, not at all.
00:42:05 --> 00:42:08 So if they've got, you know, they have lodging essentially is what you're saying.
00:42:08 --> 00:42:09 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Right, yeah.
00:42:09 --> 00:42:10 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: so it's a good question.
00:42:10 --> 00:42:13 So land trust does not require lodging.
00:42:13 --> 00:42:16 So again, we're about land sharing.
00:42:16 --> 00:42:20 So access, exclusive access, I will say when you list with land trust,
00:42:20 --> 00:42:23 our expectation is that When you accept a booking, that that group
00:42:23 --> 00:42:27 has exclusive access to the land for, for the period of time, whether
00:42:27 --> 00:42:28 it's a day, the week, whatever.
00:42:29 --> 00:42:32 Now, of course, you as a landowner can still go about your daily
00:42:32 --> 00:42:35 business, but you're not like, hey, cousin Rick's gonna be out there too.
00:42:35 --> 00:42:35 You know, so,
00:42:36 --> 00:42:36 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Oh,
00:42:36 --> 00:42:38 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: right, it's exclusive access.
00:42:38 --> 00:42:39 So, it's about that first.
00:42:39 --> 00:42:41 So, some of our landowners don't have any lodging.
00:42:41 --> 00:42:44 They say, hey, you can come and use it, and then, you know, You know, when you're
00:42:44 --> 00:42:47 done at night, go into town, stay at the motel and come back out in the morning.
00:42:47 --> 00:42:47 That's fine.
00:42:49 --> 00:42:52 Then, you know, lodging, when you add lodging to your land trust
00:42:52 --> 00:42:54 listing, you can make more money.
00:42:54 --> 00:42:56 So lodging could be, you're allowed to tent camp.
00:42:56 --> 00:42:57 You're allowed to pull your camper.
00:42:57 --> 00:42:59 We have a little pad or we've got full hookups.
00:43:00 --> 00:43:04 We've got a, you know, a little hunting shack or, you know, a
00:43:04 --> 00:43:06 barn or a nice house you can rent.
00:43:06 --> 00:43:12 And so what I will say is you will make more money on land
00:43:12 --> 00:43:14 trust with your lodging because.
00:43:16 --> 00:43:18 It's being added on to the main event, right?
00:43:19 --> 00:43:23 People are booking land trusts for the experiences and you
00:43:23 --> 00:43:25 package lodging onto that.
00:43:25 --> 00:43:28 You make more money, you know, so the farmhouse that might get a hundred
00:43:28 --> 00:43:32 bucks a night on, on Airbnb, that'll be packaged into a land trust listing
00:43:32 --> 00:43:32 and you'll make, you know, more money.
00:43:33 --> 00:43:37 1500 bucks for a booking because they're booking the experience,
00:43:37 --> 00:43:38 what they're booking your land.
00:43:38 --> 00:43:40 And then just adding that on, on top, you
00:43:40 --> 00:43:41 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Oh, yeah.
00:43:41 --> 00:43:42 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: do both.
00:43:42 --> 00:43:45 Like we do have landowners and you know, during certain times of year,
00:43:45 --> 00:43:48 if they're not going to offer certain things, Hey, you just have to make sure
00:43:48 --> 00:43:49 your calendars don't conflict, right?
00:43:50 --> 00:43:50 Make sure you don't
00:43:51 --> 00:43:53 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Oh, yeah, Nick.
00:43:53 --> 00:43:56 I told you at the beginning this wouldn't be too long of episode.
00:43:56 --> 00:43:58 We've already talked a lot longer than I originally
00:43:59 --> 00:43:59 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: I'm a talker.
00:43:59 --> 00:44:00 Told you I was a sales guy.
00:44:02 --> 00:44:02 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: There you go.
00:44:02 --> 00:44:04 It's all been good information.
00:44:04 --> 00:44:08 I would like to switch gears just a little bit and talk about the
00:44:08 --> 00:44:11 other side, the consumer side.
00:44:12 --> 00:44:16 You mentioned already, someone goes to your site because they're
00:44:16 --> 00:44:18 looking for one of these experiences.
00:44:18 --> 00:44:23 They want to visit a farm for photography or if they want to go hunting or fishing.
00:44:23 --> 00:44:29 They have to agree to terms and then they have to get their ID verified.
00:44:31 --> 00:44:35 And then, is that the extent of their, and then they're ready to
00:44:35 --> 00:44:36 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: And they're ready to
00:44:36 --> 00:44:36 like,
00:44:36 --> 00:44:38 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: on there and find the experience?
00:44:38 --> 00:44:39 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: so what they'll do is you can,
00:44:39 --> 00:44:42 again, any of our landowners can go look at the site from the guest
00:44:42 --> 00:44:43 side to you just go to landtrust.
00:44:43 --> 00:44:43 com.
00:44:43 --> 00:44:44 You can do a search.
00:44:44 --> 00:44:47 Hey and wherever I'm at in Oklahoma, what's around me,
00:44:47 --> 00:44:48 or I'm looking at Montana.
00:44:48 --> 00:44:49 That'd be cool.
00:44:49 --> 00:44:50 You can go look at all the properties.
00:44:50 --> 00:44:52 It's kind of like Zillow or, you know, Airbnb, whatever, right?
00:44:52 --> 00:44:53 You look at a bunch of listings.
00:44:54 --> 00:44:57 And then, so for the guests, if they find something they're interested in,
00:44:57 --> 00:44:58 they can just contact the landowner.
00:44:59 --> 00:45:00 And so, they say, I want to contact you.
00:45:00 --> 00:45:02 I see that you offer spring turkey hunts, let's say.
00:45:02 --> 00:45:05 So, hey, you know, Cal, I see you had that.
00:45:05 --> 00:45:06 I saw some pictures you had.
00:45:06 --> 00:45:08 I just had a couple little questions.
00:45:08 --> 00:45:09 And so they can send you an inquiry.
00:45:09 --> 00:45:10 That's what we call an inquiry.
00:45:11 --> 00:45:11 And then,
00:45:12 --> 00:45:14 they can also just send you just a booking request.
00:45:14 --> 00:45:15 Hey, I got all the information I need.
00:45:16 --> 00:45:17 Really looking forward to coming out.
00:45:17 --> 00:45:19 And again, you can reply to them.
00:45:19 --> 00:45:19 You can email them.
00:45:20 --> 00:45:21 We encourage our landowners.
00:45:21 --> 00:45:22 They often talk to people on the phone, right?
00:45:23 --> 00:45:26 Whereas other platforms like Airbnb, they really don't want you talking to each
00:45:26 --> 00:45:29 other because oh, yeah They'll strip your phone numbers out
00:45:29 --> 00:45:30 of you know, if you try to
00:45:30 --> 00:45:34 pass a phone number through We we trust our landowners.
00:45:34 --> 00:45:36 The reason Airbnb does that is because they don't want to get cut out
00:45:38 --> 00:45:38 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Oh, yeah.
00:45:39 --> 00:45:40 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: We, we don't, we trust our landowners.
00:45:40 --> 00:45:42 We're business partners, they're honest people.
00:45:43 --> 00:45:45 So we, we encourage them, hey, if you're on the combine or you're
00:45:45 --> 00:45:46 doing something, just call them.
00:45:46 --> 00:45:48 And if they don't sound great, say no.
00:45:48 --> 00:45:49 But if they do, say yes.
00:45:50 --> 00:45:56 So, yeah, you can contact landowners, ask them questions and, If it looks good,
00:45:56 --> 00:45:58 they send a booking request, get accepted.
00:45:59 --> 00:46:02 Again, the acceptance kind of like the acceptance email that
00:46:02 --> 00:46:05 we send has the digital maps, has your arrival instructions from the
00:46:05 --> 00:46:06 landowner, like all that stuff, right?
00:46:06 --> 00:46:08 The landowner's information, their phone number.
00:46:09 --> 00:46:13 We don't show our landowners, like, last names or any of their information until
00:46:13 --> 00:46:15 you've accepted a booking from somebody.
00:46:16 --> 00:46:17 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Oh, yeah.
00:46:17 --> 00:46:19 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: And then, you know, the other piece too, that
00:46:19 --> 00:46:22 we're always trying to make it easier for the landowners to just You know
00:46:22 --> 00:46:26 have less generic questions like, hey, how's the turkey population or whatever?
00:46:27 --> 00:46:27 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Oh, yeah.
00:46:27 --> 00:46:29 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: So we created what's called
00:46:29 --> 00:46:31 field notes in field notes.
00:46:31 --> 00:46:34 You can almost think like Instagram, but for your land So when you're out on
00:46:34 --> 00:46:38 the combine or you're driving around and you see stuff you can take video like
00:46:38 --> 00:46:42 oh, you know Bunch of bucks jumped up out of the corn as I was, you know Going
00:46:42 --> 00:46:46 through or saw a bunch of turkeys or the snows coming in or whatever And
00:46:46 --> 00:46:50 so you basically do property updates through field notes and people can
00:46:50 --> 00:46:54 follow it And so now people can follow your property on land trust
00:46:54 --> 00:46:56 and see those updates as they come in.
00:46:57 --> 00:47:01 And we just have, you know, examples of a guy in Eastern Montana said 7,
00:47:01 --> 00:47:05 000 geese just showed up on my winter wheat and people are booking it.
00:47:05 --> 00:47:07 You know, so it's like you're broadcasting it, right?
00:47:07 --> 00:47:11 So, you know, that kind of thing can happen or we're getting ready for
00:47:11 --> 00:47:15 branding or, Hey, we're, we just, you know, are going to offer a new archery
00:47:15 --> 00:47:17 hunting package or a new fishing thing.
00:47:17 --> 00:47:19 So you can just kind of do property updates and people can follow you.
00:47:22 --> 00:47:25 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Nick, yesterday I got on a tangent, which
00:47:25 --> 00:47:27 will be completely shocking to anybody.
00:47:27 --> 00:47:28 On camel milk.
00:47:29 --> 00:47:32 In fact, I was telling my wife this morning, we need to buy a camel.
00:47:32 --> 00:47:32 So, you
00:47:32 --> 00:47:34 know, I've got, I've got problems.
00:47:34 --> 00:47:42 Yeah, but I found one not too far from me and And I went to, well one of, I actually
00:47:42 --> 00:47:46 found a couple places with camels, but the one that dairies, I couldn't find a
00:47:46 --> 00:47:51 website or anything, but I was thinking, I would pay to go to a camel milking,
00:47:51 --> 00:47:53 just so I can observe and interact
00:47:53 --> 00:47:53 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: Yeah,
00:47:53 --> 00:47:54 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: see the camels.
00:47:55 --> 00:47:58 I don't know if that'll be a big seller for you all, but that might be a land use
00:47:58 --> 00:48:01 at some fee, some, some point, but I just.
00:48:02 --> 00:48:06 I thought of that last night when I'm looking at that and going down that rabbit
00:48:06 --> 00:48:07 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: landowner listed camel milking
00:48:07 --> 00:48:09 experiences, you'd be booking.
00:48:09 --> 00:48:10 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: I would be there.
00:48:10 --> 00:48:11 I would be there.
00:48:11 --> 00:48:11 Yes
00:48:12 --> 00:48:14 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: I mean, you joke, but it's honestly like,
00:48:14 --> 00:48:16 those are interesting things, right?
00:48:16 --> 00:48:20 And I often tell our landowners, Your everyday chores are interesting to people
00:48:20 --> 00:48:25 who didn't grow up doing that, you know, so it's just it's just that's what it is
00:48:27 --> 00:48:30 So that's what I like about that kind of farm ranch experience stuff is it
00:48:30 --> 00:48:36 could be anything now again unclear if you know, it's interesting but
00:48:38 --> 00:48:40 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Yeah, how many people's gonna go watch camels get
00:48:40 --> 00:48:41 milked
00:48:41 --> 00:48:43 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: I'm interested though I've never even thought
00:48:43 --> 00:48:46 about milking a camel and now you know, I'm kind of interested in the process too.
00:48:47 --> 00:48:49 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Well, well the reason I got on it it's
00:48:49 --> 00:48:54 supposed to be good for kids with autism so I was like interesting
00:48:55 --> 00:48:57 and Nick, I'm looking at my notes.
00:48:57 --> 00:49:02 I think, is there anything left that we didn't cover that you think would
00:49:02 --> 00:49:04 be beneficial for our listeners?
00:49:05 --> 00:49:07 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: Look, I'd say that like I said, if any
00:49:07 --> 00:49:10 of this sounds remotely interesting, just call us and talk to us.
00:49:10 --> 00:49:13 I mean, or text messages if you'd like to text.
00:49:13 --> 00:49:14 I mean, we're, we'll sit and talk to you guys.
00:49:15 --> 00:49:17 We've had thousands of these conversations.
00:49:17 --> 00:49:21 And, you know, we'll see if it's, if it's a good fit for you.
00:49:21 --> 00:49:23 Like I said, it's free to try.
00:49:24 --> 00:49:25 There's really not a lot of downside there.
00:49:26 --> 00:49:28 You know, our team prides ourselves on customer service.
00:49:29 --> 00:49:32 Our landowners are very happy and stay with us for a long time.
00:49:32 --> 00:49:34 Most of the time, if we see a landowner leave, it's because
00:49:34 --> 00:49:35 they sold the land or something.
00:49:35 --> 00:49:37 It's not because they weren't happy.
00:49:37 --> 00:49:41 So, I think that this is going to be a great way to stack another enterprise.
00:49:41 --> 00:49:47 on to an operation as we know you kind of have to do to be profitable and it's
00:49:47 --> 00:49:48 something that you stay in control of.
00:49:48 --> 00:49:51 It's something that also like it could bring a kid back.
00:49:51 --> 00:49:55 You know, if a kid wants to come back to the farm or ranch, an extra 15,
00:49:55 --> 00:49:57 20, 000 a year profit could do it and it's something they can manage
00:49:57 --> 00:49:58 very easily.
00:49:58 --> 00:50:01 Um, so yeah, give us a call.
00:50:01 --> 00:50:05 Like we're, you know, we're a service oriented people
00:50:05 --> 00:50:06 and love to talk to people.
00:50:06 --> 00:50:08 It's all we do all day is talk to our landowners and guests
00:50:08 --> 00:50:11 and yeah, I would say call us.
00:50:13 --> 00:50:14 cal_1_11-15-2024_090229: Well, very good, Nick.
00:50:14 --> 00:50:16 We appreciate you coming along and sharing with us
00:50:16 --> 00:50:17 nic-de-castro_1_11-15-2024_090229: Yeah, thank you for having me on.
00:50:17 --> 00:50:18 It's been a great conversation.
00:50:18 --> 00:50:21 Speaker 2: Ken Cove Farm Fence is a proud supporter of the Grazing
00:50:21 --> 00:50:23 Grass Podcast and grazers everywhere.
00:50:24 --> 00:50:27 At Ken Cove Farm Fence, they believe there is true value within the
00:50:27 --> 00:50:30 community of grazers and land stewards.
00:50:30 --> 00:50:33 The results that follow proper management and monitoring can
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00:50:35 --> 00:50:40 That's why Ken Cove is dedicated to providing an ever expanding line of
00:50:40 --> 00:50:44 grazing products to make your chores easier and your land more abundant.
00:50:45 --> 00:50:48 Whether you're growing your own food on the homestead, Or
00:50:48 --> 00:50:50 grazing on thousands of acres.
00:50:50 --> 00:50:53 Kencove has everything you need to do it well.
00:50:53 --> 00:50:55 From reels to tumblewheels.
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00:51:00 --> 00:51:02 You'll find what you're looking for at Kencove.
00:51:03 --> 00:51:06 They carry brands like Speedrite, O'Briens, KiwiTek,
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