Unlock the secrets to regenerative farming success with Cedric Shannon from Weathertop Farm in Virginia. Listen as Cedric recounts transforming 54 acres of potential housing development land into a thriving regenerative livestock operation. Inspired by Joel Salatin, Cedric shares how he and his wife, Sarah, started their farm journey with limited resources, beginning with chickens and hogs, and progressively integrating cattle and sheep. Through continuous learning and building a supportive community, Cedric offers insights into overcoming challenges and achieving sustainable farming success.
Explore the nuances of raising rabbits and chickens for profit as Cedric shares his experiences and insights. Discover the logistical challenges and rewarding solutions like hoop houses for rabbit hutches and the innovative use of rabbit manure to enhance poultry productivity. Cedric discusses the market dynamics and cultural preferences for rabbit meat, providing a thoughtful reflection on the balance between passion and practicality in small-scale farming. From family farming growth to the legacy of their operation, hear about the reinvestment in skills development and how their farm internship program has paved paths for aspiring regenerative farmers.
Cedric guides us through holistic grazing management and flexible farm infrastructure strategies that are vital for thriving with limited capital. Learn about the benefits of rotational grazing and how different livestock species can synergistically enrich soil nutrients, creating a sustainable farming ecosystem. Practical advice on managing farm operations—like using electric netting over permanent fencing and the importance of movable structures—highlights the resourcefulness required to succeed in agriculture. With Cedric's insights, start your farming journey with creativity and adaptability, and become part of the sustainable farming community.
Links Mentioned in the Episode
Visit our Sponsors:
Noble Research Institute
Redmond
Kencove Farm Fence
Grazing Grass Links
Provide feedback for the podcast
Website
Insiders
Resources (Coming Soon)
Community (on Facebook)
NOTE This file was generated by Descript
00:00:00 --> 00:00:04 Welcome to the grazing grass podcast episode 143.
00:00:06 --> 00:00:08 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Don't get ahead of your learning curve.
00:00:08 --> 00:00:10 We always talk about getting ahead of our market.
00:00:10 --> 00:00:13 We always talk ahead about all, but don't get ahead of your learning curves
00:00:13 --> 00:00:16 Cal: You're listening to the grazing grass, podcast, sharing
00:00:16 --> 00:00:20 information and stories of grass-based livestock production
00:00:20 --> 00:00:22 utilizing regenerative practices.
00:00:23 --> 00:00:25 I'm your host, Cal Hardage.
00:00:26 --> 00:00:28 You're growing more than grass.
00:00:29 --> 00:00:33 You're growing a healthier ecosystem to help your cattle
00:00:33 --> 00:00:34 thrive in their environment.
00:00:35 --> 00:00:39 You're growing your livelihood by increasing your carrying capacity
00:00:39 --> 00:00:41 and reducing your operating costs.
00:00:42 --> 00:00:47 You're growing stronger communities and a legacy to last generations.
00:00:48 --> 00:00:51 The grazing management decisions you make today.
00:00:51 --> 00:00:57 impact everything from the soil beneath your feet to the community all around you.
00:00:57 --> 00:01:02 That's why the Noble Research Institute created their Essentials
00:01:02 --> 00:01:08 of Regenerative Grazing course to teach ranchers like you easy to follow
00:01:08 --> 00:01:14 techniques to quickly assess your forage production and infrastructure capacity.
00:01:14 --> 00:01:18 In order to begin grazing more efficiently.
00:01:18 --> 00:01:23 Together, they can help you grow not only a healthier operation,
00:01:23 --> 00:01:25 but a legacy that lasts.
00:01:26 --> 00:01:29 Learn more on their website at noble.
00:01:30 --> 00:01:32 org slash grazing.
00:01:32 --> 00:01:39 It's n o b l e dot org forward slash grazing.
00:01:39 --> 00:01:40 On today's show.
00:01:40 --> 00:01:43 We have Cedric Shannon of Weathertop Farm.
00:01:43 --> 00:01:49 Him and his wife, Sarah, have a farm in Virginia, which they raise.
00:01:50 --> 00:01:53 A few different species on, they have sheep, cattle,
00:01:53 --> 00:01:55 hogs, chickens, and turkeys.
00:01:55 --> 00:01:59 Everything rotationally grazed, he makes extensive use of electric netting.
00:02:00 --> 00:02:02 And he also has a podcast.
00:02:03 --> 00:02:04 Can your beans do that?
00:02:05 --> 00:02:06 It's a wonderful episode.
00:02:06 --> 00:02:10 We're going to talk about his beginnings, but we're gonna talk a lot about getting
00:02:10 --> 00:02:11 started when you don't have much money.
00:02:11 --> 00:02:14 That's our overgrazing topic for today.
00:02:14 --> 00:02:17 And then we run out a little bit of time.
00:02:17 --> 00:02:21 So to get the cattle and sheep in that's over on our bonus segment
00:02:21 --> 00:02:23 for our grazing grass insiders.
00:02:24 --> 00:02:29 For 10 seconds about the farm, my cool season perennials are growing.
00:02:29 --> 00:02:29 They got some.
00:02:30 --> 00:02:34 Some much needed rain and, um, the weather's not been too bad.
00:02:34 --> 00:02:35 Not too warm.
00:02:35 --> 00:02:36 Not too cool.
00:02:37 --> 00:02:38 For 10 seconds about podcasts.
00:02:39 --> 00:02:43 On our show notes, we have a link to a listeners' feedback form.
00:02:43 --> 00:02:48 We'd love to get your feedback about the podcast and how we can improve.
00:02:48 --> 00:02:51 So if you've got some time, click on that link and fill out a
00:02:51 --> 00:02:53 form for us, we'd appreciate it.
00:02:54 --> 00:02:55 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Cedric, we want to welcome you
00:02:55 --> 00:02:57 to the Grazing Grass podcast.
00:02:57 --> 00:02:58 We're excited you're here today.
00:02:59 --> 00:03:00 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Thanks, Cal.
00:03:00 --> 00:03:00 It's great to be here.
00:03:01 --> 00:03:03 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: To get started, can you tell us a little bit
00:03:03 --> 00:03:05 about yourself and your operation?
00:03:07 --> 00:03:11 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Yeah, so, we moved here in 2003.
00:03:11 --> 00:03:15 It was some land that was getting all divided, you know, subdivided.
00:03:15 --> 00:03:20 It was going to just turn into housing and we bought it as a whole.
00:03:20 --> 00:03:22 It was about 54 acres.
00:03:23 --> 00:03:25 My wife and I, we had five tiny little kids.
00:03:26 --> 00:03:27 There was like nothing here.
00:03:27 --> 00:03:28 We, it was crazy.
00:03:28 --> 00:03:31 It was like the, you know, midlife crisis
00:03:31 --> 00:03:32 type of crazy.
00:03:32 --> 00:03:34 Everyone's was like, you should not be doing this.
00:03:34 --> 00:03:36 So we really started from scratch.
00:03:36 --> 00:03:38 There was a few buildings, but they were like a hundred years old.
00:03:39 --> 00:03:41 There was some pastures left because people had just
00:03:41 --> 00:03:43 thrown some cows on here, but
00:03:43 --> 00:03:45 so we really started with very little.
00:03:45 --> 00:03:46 We had thrown all our capital.
00:03:47 --> 00:03:48 to the land.
00:03:48 --> 00:03:55 And so we started slow and we just started with this little infrastructure.
00:03:55 --> 00:03:58 You know, we, we were, we'd read some Joel Salatin.
00:03:58 --> 00:04:00 We'd have visited his farm a little bit.
00:04:00 --> 00:04:02 So we built some chicken tractors.
00:04:03 --> 00:04:05 You know, we started like with a hundred broilers,
00:04:06 --> 00:04:10 25 hens, a couple hogs, you know, and I had rabbits too.
00:04:10 --> 00:04:11 So I had brought my stock.
00:04:12 --> 00:04:13 Yeah.
00:04:13 --> 00:04:16 We started very slowly and the market was there.
00:04:16 --> 00:04:17 We were in a great place here.
00:04:17 --> 00:04:18 We're in Floyd, Virginia.
00:04:19 --> 00:04:22 So we're in the rolling hills, but there was already a community here
00:04:22 --> 00:04:25 that was doing, they were calling it sustainable agriculture at
00:04:25 --> 00:04:31 the time, found someone who was actually doing like pasture poultry, rotational
00:04:31 --> 00:04:35 grazing, and talked to this old codger, and he was just really nice, and I
00:04:35 --> 00:04:39 asked him if, you know, Would he kind of be there as a resource when he said,
00:04:39 --> 00:04:41 yes, I told my wife, we can do this.
00:04:41 --> 00:04:42 We can do this.
00:04:43 --> 00:04:49 So they really, it was a couple and they really helped us out through the years.
00:04:49 --> 00:04:53 I mean, we, we started, we were like, we didn't have any processing equipment.
00:04:53 --> 00:04:56 So we were taking our birds over to their place and
00:04:56 --> 00:04:59 processing and we traded traded work for that.
00:04:59 --> 00:05:01 And so we're really well supported.
00:05:03 --> 00:05:04 But started very, very slow.
00:05:05 --> 00:05:06 The market was there.
00:05:06 --> 00:05:10 So we might've started with 200 broilers the first year or a hundred.
00:05:10 --> 00:05:13 I can't even remember, but you know, next year was like 500, you know, and
00:05:13 --> 00:05:15 then like 700 and then a thousand.
00:05:15 --> 00:05:16 Right.
00:05:16 --> 00:05:18 So, and then we added other things.
00:05:19 --> 00:05:20 We did ducks for a while.
00:05:20 --> 00:05:24 I had rabbits for a long time, but they're, So those have fallen away
00:05:24 --> 00:05:26 and in the place we've put in sheep.
00:05:27 --> 00:05:28 We've put in cattle.
00:05:28 --> 00:05:31 We have now access to the farm right across the road.
00:05:31 --> 00:05:34 So in total, we manage about 200 acres.
00:05:34 --> 00:05:35 Some of that is
00:05:35 --> 00:05:36 woods.
00:05:36 --> 00:05:38 We've got a fair amount of pasture, but with multiple species.
00:05:38 --> 00:05:42 So we've got just to give you a sense of scale, we do Well,
00:05:42 --> 00:05:43 we order 6, 000 broilers.
00:05:43 --> 00:05:44 You know how that
00:05:44 --> 00:05:44 goes.
00:05:44 --> 00:05:47 It's 5, 000 in sum by the end.
00:05:47 --> 00:05:50 We have flocks of laying hens, 600 at a time.
00:05:50 --> 00:05:53 We'll keep two through the winter, but then we kind of, as one is
00:05:53 --> 00:05:55 phasing out, we'll get another flock.
00:05:55 --> 00:06:00 So anywhere from 1, 200 to You know, 1800 birds laying.
00:06:02 --> 00:06:03 Then we do turkeys.
00:06:03 --> 00:06:06 We have like about 600 turkeys for Thanksgiving.
00:06:06 --> 00:06:07 So that's our, our poultry there.
00:06:08 --> 00:06:12 And then we do hogs, and we rotationally graze them as well.
00:06:12 --> 00:06:14 I have listened to a few of your podcasts.
00:06:14 --> 00:06:17 People were dissing on hogs, and I'll, I'll have a different opinion on that.
00:06:18 --> 00:06:18 They're awesome.
00:06:19 --> 00:06:20 Yeah.
00:06:20 --> 00:06:22 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: just a couple weeks ago.
00:06:22 --> 00:06:26 Yeah, what if so it was pretty harsh on hogs They were not fans of them.
00:06:26 --> 00:06:29 We do have a few that's that's hog base.
00:06:29 --> 00:06:30 So that's that's interesting.
00:06:30 --> 00:06:32 We'll have to get into that Yeah
00:06:32 --> 00:06:35 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: So we do hogs, we farrow, we have about
00:06:35 --> 00:06:39 10 sows, which doesn't sound like a lot, but when they're each farrowing
00:06:39 --> 00:06:44 twice a year, averaging, you know, like 9 or 10 hogs, you know, that
00:06:44 --> 00:06:47 can be anywhere from, you know, 160 to 200.
00:06:48 --> 00:06:49 And it's all direct sale.
00:06:49 --> 00:06:49 So,
00:06:49 --> 00:06:52 So we, you know, finish out quite a few hogs.
00:06:53 --> 00:06:59 Then we have a, a Katahdin flock of about 60 maybe, sometimes
00:06:59 --> 00:07:00 a little bit higher use.
00:07:01 --> 00:07:04 And then I'm just, right now at this point, I'm just bringing in steers.
00:07:04 --> 00:07:04 So I might
00:07:04 --> 00:07:06 bring in like 25 steers a year.
00:07:07 --> 00:07:10 And then keep them for about a year and a half and then, and then sell them.
00:07:10 --> 00:07:14 So, and we run our sheep and our, and our beef together.
00:07:14 --> 00:07:16 So we have what they call flerds, right?
00:07:16 --> 00:07:16 A
00:07:17 --> 00:07:17 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh
00:07:17 --> 00:07:18 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: a herd of flerds.
00:07:19 --> 00:07:20 That gives you a sense of scale.
00:07:20 --> 00:07:21 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Yeah.
00:07:21 --> 00:07:26 And, and so we have so much to cover as I, I took notes as you were saying, all
00:07:26 --> 00:07:27 that so much we want to get through.
00:07:28 --> 00:07:33 But first I wanna go back till you moved down there and ask you about your rabbits.
00:07:34 --> 00:07:34 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Okay.
00:07:34 --> 00:07:37 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: you, you moved rabbits with you
00:07:37 --> 00:07:38 when you moved them down here.
00:07:38 --> 00:07:41 Were you doing any kind of, were you trying to raise them on
00:07:41 --> 00:07:45 pasture or were they more in the cage and raising them like a more
00:07:45 --> 00:07:47 conventional system for the rabbits?
00:07:47 --> 00:07:49 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: So I had the breeding stock in cages, you
00:07:49 --> 00:07:51 know, raised up with the wire and all
00:07:51 --> 00:07:53 the poop is falling through.
00:07:53 --> 00:07:54 I had ideas.
00:07:54 --> 00:07:56 I was gonna do worms under him, which never worked very well.
00:07:57 --> 00:08:04 And then we were, and then we were putting them like, you know, the, after we weaned
00:08:04 --> 00:08:07 them, we would keep them out in the field and these sort of rabbit tractors.
00:08:08 --> 00:08:08 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yes.
00:08:09 --> 00:08:11 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: We went through so many iterations of that.
00:08:11 --> 00:08:18 You know, put wire on the corners, put, you know, some extra bars and, you know, I
00:08:18 --> 00:08:22 know, that Salatin at some point was doing it where he had lots and lots of slats.
00:08:22 --> 00:08:25 By the time I saw that, it was like, there's no grass coming through.
00:08:25 --> 00:08:25 So what's
00:08:25 --> 00:08:26 the point?
00:08:26 --> 00:08:26 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: yeah.
00:08:26 --> 00:08:30 Yeah, you're not you're not getting any grass forage consumption there
00:08:31 --> 00:08:33 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Yeah, so then, you know, and they
00:08:33 --> 00:08:35 were still getting out like every now and then and I had a great dog.
00:08:35 --> 00:08:38 She'd help me catch him and she wouldn't kill him.
00:08:38 --> 00:08:38 She would help me
00:08:38 --> 00:08:38 catch him.
00:08:38 --> 00:08:41 We'd round him up, but I was wasting so much time.
00:08:42 --> 00:08:44 And in the end, right, I might have like.
00:08:45 --> 00:08:47 20 rabbits in a tractor, right?
00:08:47 --> 00:08:50 When you can do like 75 broilers in a tractor,
00:08:50 --> 00:08:51 right?
00:08:51 --> 00:08:51 So
00:08:51 --> 00:08:51 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: True.
00:08:51 --> 00:08:52 Yeah,
00:08:52 --> 00:08:54 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: economically, I mean, just time.
00:08:54 --> 00:08:57 I mean, at the beginning I had a lot of time and I loved rabbits.
00:08:57 --> 00:09:02 I've grown up with rabbits always, and I love rabbit meat and I had great stock.
00:09:02 --> 00:09:05 Never found stock as good as I did when I, the stuff I brought here.
00:09:06 --> 00:09:09 And eventually it was just a you know, we had to cut something
00:09:09 --> 00:09:12 out because it was just taking so much time because we were like scything
00:09:12 --> 00:09:16 grass for them and like, you know, and, and you take care of one rabbit, you
00:09:16 --> 00:09:20 know, and she might have 8, 10 babies as well, but you taking one cage,
00:09:20 --> 00:09:21 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yeah.
00:09:21 --> 00:09:23 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: In each cage at a time, whereas I go
00:09:23 --> 00:09:26 out and I can take care of 600 layers
00:09:26 --> 00:09:27 all at once.
00:09:28 --> 00:09:28 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Yeah
00:09:29 --> 00:09:31 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: So you just never, you can never get the price
00:09:31 --> 00:09:34 point to make that actually economic item.
00:09:34 --> 00:09:37 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Did you find there was a fair market for rabbit meat?
00:09:37 --> 00:09:38 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: There was plenty of a
00:09:38 --> 00:09:38 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yeah.
00:09:39 --> 00:09:42 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: It was either, Like an older generation,
00:09:42 --> 00:09:45 because, oh, I love rabbit, I grew up with rabbit, or through the depression,
00:09:45 --> 00:09:49 my grandma made me rabbit, or a lot of ethnic, so
00:09:49 --> 00:09:54 we're close to a couple bigger towns, we have well, Roanoke, and then also
00:09:54 --> 00:09:57 Blacksburg is a town that we go to a lot, that's where Virginia Tech is,
00:09:58 --> 00:10:02 and there's a lot of international people there, and so they, a lot, you know,
00:10:02 --> 00:10:07 most, most places love rabbit, it's a little different here, this generation
00:10:08 --> 00:10:08 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, right.
00:10:09 --> 00:10:09 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: People used to eat rabbit
00:10:09 --> 00:10:11 all the time here as well,
00:10:11 --> 00:10:12 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Yeah, I grew up eating
00:10:13 --> 00:10:13 rabbit.
00:10:13 --> 00:10:16 We went through some phases as I was growing up, different times when
00:10:16 --> 00:10:18 rabbit was the main protein we had.
00:10:18 --> 00:10:21 Now I say that we always had beef, so always had beef.
00:10:21 --> 00:10:26 But rabbit replaced chicken for a number of times because we, we
00:10:26 --> 00:10:30 started raising some rabbits and rabbits multiply like rabbits.
00:10:30 --> 00:10:33 And we, we had way too many.
00:10:33 --> 00:10:35 They're one of my favorite animals.
00:10:35 --> 00:10:37 I have them off and on.
00:10:37 --> 00:10:40 And I just really struggle with it.
00:10:40 --> 00:10:44 Right now, I don't have any I told my wife the other day I want to get a few
00:10:44 --> 00:10:47 more And she's like, well, are you sure?
00:10:47 --> 00:10:53 And you know, i'm always them when I want to but but I know the the issues
00:10:53 --> 00:10:59 I would love to do them in a, in a rabbit tractor or something, but I just
00:10:59 --> 00:11:04 look at it and I'm like, that is that much more work I'm creating for myself
00:11:04 --> 00:11:06 when I don't need to create more work.
00:11:06 --> 00:11:09 So it's that love, hate relationship with it.
00:11:09 --> 00:11:13 Not so much the rabbits, but just trying to figure out that system.
00:11:13 --> 00:11:14 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: yeah.
00:11:14 --> 00:11:19 One of the best things about rabbits, though, actually, we started, we put
00:11:19 --> 00:11:24 some, a bunch of our, our rabbit hutches in a, we have sort of a poor man's hoop
00:11:24 --> 00:11:25 house, right?
00:11:25 --> 00:11:30 So, we have like a PVC, 20 foot PVC, and we just put them, you know,
00:11:30 --> 00:11:34 and so it's like 12 feet wide, 96 long, and it's about 7 feet high.
00:11:35 --> 00:11:38 And then we had our, our rabbit hutches in there and we have shade cloth over.
00:11:38 --> 00:11:44 And over the winter, we, we hook up our hen houses to it so our hens
00:11:44 --> 00:11:45 can get into those hoop houses.
00:11:45 --> 00:11:49 So we don't do lights and they still, they get all that heat from the hoop
00:11:49 --> 00:11:50 houses and they just lay all through the
00:11:51 --> 00:11:51 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh yes.
00:11:52 --> 00:11:54 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: But when we had the rabbits under there, it
00:11:54 --> 00:11:57 was like even extra like mobonus for them.
00:11:57 --> 00:11:57 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh yeah.
00:11:58 --> 00:11:59 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: They just loved it.
00:11:59 --> 00:12:01 They would go through all the manure and the bugs
00:12:01 --> 00:12:02 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh yeah.
00:12:02 --> 00:12:03 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: they were happy as could be.
00:12:04 --> 00:12:06 So there's a lot of pluses to rabbits, you
00:12:06 --> 00:12:10 know, and if I was doing more of a homestead and not a business, I would
00:12:10 --> 00:12:12 get rabbits in the blink of an eye.
00:12:12 --> 00:12:14 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:12:14 --> 00:12:18 I I do have a couple disadvantages for Rabbit here.
00:12:18 --> 00:12:20 I can't convince my wife to eat it, and,
00:12:21 --> 00:12:23 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: She hasn't had it made by my wife.
00:12:23 --> 00:12:26 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: and, and she ref, she refuses to, well,
00:12:26 --> 00:12:30 actually, if, if I fix it for her, she's much closer eating it.
00:12:30 --> 00:12:35 She doesn't wanna be in the processing portion of it at all.
00:12:35 --> 00:12:38 And, and to say she has came a long way.
00:12:38 --> 00:12:42 She grew up basically in town.
00:12:42 --> 00:12:43 in Hawaii.
00:12:44 --> 00:12:46 So this is all pretty foreign to her.
00:12:46 --> 00:12:51 So she, she's came a long ways, you know, not having the meat come to
00:12:51 --> 00:12:57 her on a, on a styrofoam tray wrapped in plastic was a, a shock for her.
00:12:57 --> 00:13:01 So yeah, of course it's been over 20 years.
00:13:01 --> 00:13:03 So another 20 years, I may have her convinced.
00:13:04 --> 00:13:05 We'll see.
00:13:07 --> 00:13:07 Yeah.
00:13:07 --> 00:13:07 Right.
00:13:08 --> 00:13:14 So I always think, I know we had an episode where a lady She started with
00:13:14 --> 00:13:20 rabbits and then it's expanded way beyond that, but I love rabbits as a, a
00:13:20 --> 00:13:26 potential protein source for people with limited land or just getting started.
00:13:26 --> 00:13:27 It's, it's great there.
00:13:27 --> 00:13:29 And a lot of times.
00:13:30 --> 00:13:35 We don't want to talk about rabbit because it kind of, it's, it's, I hate to say
00:13:35 --> 00:13:39 the stepchild because I think that's just the wrong connotation for stepchildren.
00:13:40 --> 00:13:44 But, but sometimes it's not looked upon all, all that greatly.
00:13:44 --> 00:13:44 So,
00:13:45 --> 00:13:47 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: well, I grew up, I grew up overseas
00:13:47 --> 00:13:52 in Africa and, and places like that where agriculture, you
00:13:52 --> 00:13:57 know, is, is less business and much more, you know, subsistence
00:13:57 --> 00:14:01 rabbits can be like, Just essential, right?
00:14:01 --> 00:14:01 I mean,
00:14:01 --> 00:14:03 in all kinds of climates,
00:14:03 --> 00:14:03 right?
00:14:03 --> 00:14:09 But like, they, they so synergistic with garden and other animals and, you
00:14:09 --> 00:14:15 know, so like, it's hands down one of the best animals, just not for business.
00:14:15 --> 00:14:19 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: So, so with the business in mind, you all, once
00:14:19 --> 00:14:22 you moved, you took some rabbits down there, but you quickly found some other
00:14:22 --> 00:14:24 species that worked a little bit better.
00:14:24 --> 00:14:27 So let's, so first you got chickens, I believe.
00:14:28 --> 00:14:32 Tell us a little bit about your beginning process with chickens and how that went.
00:14:33 --> 00:14:37 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: so, I basically built two pens, you know,
00:14:37 --> 00:14:39 I sort of took a Salaton's model and
00:14:39 --> 00:14:43 sort of tweaked it, you know, I'm a carpenter, so I tweaked
00:14:43 --> 00:14:48 it in ways that made sense for me and we did around, right?
00:14:48 --> 00:14:52 And already the couple that I mentioned before, the brights,
00:14:52 --> 00:14:54 they, they were doing broilers
00:14:54 --> 00:14:57 and they had, you know, I don't know how many they were up to,
00:14:57 --> 00:14:58 maybe a thousand at that point.
00:14:58 --> 00:15:00 It was just, just the two of them.
00:15:01 --> 00:15:03 And they said, well, just come do your broilers and we'll see if we can sell it.
00:15:04 --> 00:15:05 And we just sold everything.
00:15:05 --> 00:15:10 So then I bought a hundred more and we were able to get two in that
00:15:10 --> 00:15:11 season just because of that, right?
00:15:11 --> 00:15:17 So it was just very minimal infrastructure and just like, you know, chicken
00:15:17 --> 00:15:18 tractor, especially back then.
00:15:19 --> 00:15:20 Costed very little.
00:15:20 --> 00:15:24 I could just buy the wood, and I could, I even bought aluminum back there, back
00:15:24 --> 00:15:27 then, so that they would be lighter, and it was, like, affordable.
00:15:28 --> 00:15:32 Then we, I built a little chicken coop for the hens, and it's, like, this one
00:15:32 --> 00:15:37 that my, my, my dad had, like, backyard poultry stuff, and found one there,
00:15:37 --> 00:15:40 and I, I literally, like, I didn't have a tractor, I didn't have a truck.
00:15:41 --> 00:15:43 We moved here in a Grand Caravan, Dodge Caravan.
00:15:44 --> 00:15:47 And I pulled this chicken that could house a hundred birds, and
00:15:47 --> 00:15:51 I pulled this little chicken thing on skids with my Dodge Caravan
00:15:51 --> 00:15:52 around the pasture.
00:15:53 --> 00:15:56 And, and since we're telling kind of embarrassing stories about the
00:15:56 --> 00:15:59 beginning, we would move our hogs around.
00:15:59 --> 00:16:03 And this is hilarious, just thinking about how far we've come, right?
00:16:04 --> 00:16:07 I got two hogs, but I wanted to move them, right?
00:16:07 --> 00:16:08 The whole thing is I wanted to
00:16:08 --> 00:16:08 move them.
00:16:08 --> 00:16:11 So there was this shed that had fallen down.
00:16:11 --> 00:16:13 And so it was this triangle of the roof.
00:16:14 --> 00:16:17 So I just cut that and we put it out on the pasture and they'd be under that.
00:16:17 --> 00:16:21 And then when we wanted to move it, I literally said, Hey, I'd get my brother
00:16:21 --> 00:16:25 or somebody around here and we'd go under it and we'd put it on our shoulders.
00:16:25 --> 00:16:26 And we would lift it up
00:16:27 --> 00:16:27 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Yeah,
00:16:27 --> 00:16:30 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: and we would walk it like a hundred feet.
00:16:31 --> 00:16:36 So, so yeah, I mean, we started with nothing and so, I mean, it's, it's
00:16:36 --> 00:16:40 pretty funny to think about it, but you know, you do what you got to do.
00:16:41 --> 00:16:44 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: my grandpa his favorite saying was always poor
00:16:44 --> 00:16:50 people have poor ways and and I Well, I hauled some goats off in my
00:16:51 --> 00:16:56 my little homemade Goat towed on the back of my pickup just the other day.
00:16:56 --> 00:16:59 I, I actually have a really nice one, but my dad and nephew
00:16:59 --> 00:17:01 decide they needed to borrow it.
00:17:01 --> 00:17:03 I'm like, I gotta sell some goats.
00:17:03 --> 00:17:08 So I, I made one out of a panel and stuff, wired.
00:17:08 --> 00:17:11 I was telling the people at the, at the place where I, I actually
00:17:11 --> 00:17:14 bought some goats and I said, yeah, poor people's got poor ways.
00:17:14 --> 00:17:14 It'll work
00:17:16 --> 00:17:16 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Yeah,
00:17:18 --> 00:17:20 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: So you expanded into all those
00:17:20 --> 00:17:23 species chickens, layers, hogs.
00:17:24 --> 00:17:26 You started out really small scale.
00:17:27 --> 00:17:33 Did you just grow as the consumer as you found the market, or did
00:17:33 --> 00:17:37 you just grow as you had money, or how was the growth process?
00:17:37 --> 00:17:39 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: it was all together.
00:17:39 --> 00:17:39 Right.
00:17:39 --> 00:17:44 So the great thing about broilers is you, You get your
00:17:44 --> 00:17:46 investment back within two months,
00:17:47 --> 00:17:47 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yeah.
00:17:47 --> 00:17:49 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: And we absolutely had to have that.
00:17:49 --> 00:17:50 We did work off farm.
00:17:50 --> 00:17:54 My wife and I took turns working off farm for the first like five years.
00:17:54 --> 00:17:58 So it wasn't until after that, that we cinched our belt and said, we're
00:17:58 --> 00:18:00 going to try to do this full time.
00:18:01 --> 00:18:05 But yeah, no, I mean, you know, I, I think actually the one thing you didn't mention
00:18:05 --> 00:18:08 is, is that also the learning curve,
00:18:08 --> 00:18:09 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yes.
00:18:10 --> 00:18:10 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: right.
00:18:10 --> 00:18:14 So like, yeah, we didn't have the money, but we also needed to do our market.
00:18:14 --> 00:18:18 We also needed to grow our skills, how good we were doing this without like,
00:18:18 --> 00:18:20 Oh, I'm going to buy 50 hogs and do it.
00:18:20 --> 00:18:25 And then just completely, you know, we didn't have sort of the cushion
00:18:26 --> 00:18:27 to to do that.
00:18:27 --> 00:18:29 So, the market always seemed to be there.
00:18:31 --> 00:18:34 And sometimes we'd have to work to find it or to get the people there.
00:18:34 --> 00:18:39 But always in the end, we ended up always selling everything, you know,
00:18:39 --> 00:18:42 and it helped, you know, and then, you know, we've always been really
00:18:42 --> 00:18:45 high quality, even though we may be poor and have poor ways, we've
00:18:45 --> 00:18:47 always been really high quality.
00:18:47 --> 00:18:48 Just the taste, right?
00:18:48 --> 00:18:49 People are just like,
00:18:50 --> 00:18:53 Oh, this tastes, I don't, I can't believe, is this really chicken?
00:18:53 --> 00:18:54 Like, I
00:18:54 --> 00:18:56 haven't, I guess I haven't eaten chicken all my life.
00:18:57 --> 00:18:59 And that spoke for itself, you
00:18:59 --> 00:19:01 know, so it's all been kind of word of mouth.
00:19:01 --> 00:19:05 We've never like, we don't do anything like shipping, whatever.
00:19:05 --> 00:19:09 But like, now we have hundreds of families that we, for a lot of
00:19:09 --> 00:19:10 them, we are their only meat source.
00:19:10 --> 00:19:11 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yeah.
00:19:12 --> 00:19:14 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: And yeah, no, it just has grown.
00:19:14 --> 00:19:22 And then in 2012, we also branched out to the human species, had our first intern.
00:19:22 --> 00:19:24 And that was one of the things we were hearing.
00:19:24 --> 00:19:27 We were going to conferences and stuff was, you know, one of the biggest
00:19:27 --> 00:19:30 needs is a lot of people want to get into regenerative agriculture,
00:19:31 --> 00:19:33 but they don't have an entry level.
00:19:33 --> 00:19:34 Sort of way to start.
00:19:35 --> 00:19:38 People are looking for managers, which I too, I get that.
00:19:38 --> 00:19:40 I'm looking for a manager to help me, you
00:19:40 --> 00:19:45 know, with the load, but we kept hearing this need of like people want
00:19:45 --> 00:19:48 to get into it, but they don't know, especially with animal husbandry.
00:19:49 --> 00:19:50 So we started an intern program.
00:19:50 --> 00:19:54 And so right now we do have a manager and we do about three
00:19:54 --> 00:19:56 or four interns on top of
00:19:56 --> 00:20:00 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yes, so you have quite the crew because
00:20:00 --> 00:20:03 you mentioned earlier I think you had five little kids when you moved,
00:20:04 --> 00:20:05 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: we have five kids too,
00:20:05 --> 00:20:05 but they've
00:20:05 --> 00:20:07 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: and they've had, oh, have they all left home?
00:20:08 --> 00:20:12 Because I'm thinking they're, that turned into quite the workforce.
00:20:12 --> 00:20:13 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: They were, I mean, I mean,
00:20:13 --> 00:20:15 they were also very active, you
00:20:15 --> 00:20:16 know, but they all know how to do everything on the
00:20:17 --> 00:20:17 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Right, right.
00:20:17 --> 00:20:19 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Unfortunately I, I, the,
00:20:19 --> 00:20:23 the sustainability aspect of getting your kids to take over.
00:20:24 --> 00:20:26 I haven't learned that one yet.
00:20:26 --> 00:20:28 They all want to go off and do their own thing.
00:20:28 --> 00:20:29 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yes.
00:20:29 --> 00:20:30 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Totally understandable.
00:20:30 --> 00:20:36 And so, yeah, actually, now I'm into the stage of being a grandpa.
00:20:36 --> 00:20:37 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh,
00:20:37 --> 00:20:37 yes.
00:20:38 --> 00:20:40 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: and they're coming back to the farm for that.
00:20:40 --> 00:20:41 So they're here right
00:20:41 --> 00:20:45 now for a few months and we get to hang out with our grandkid
00:20:45 --> 00:20:46 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: that
00:20:46 --> 00:20:47 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: And I have another one on the way.
00:20:47 --> 00:20:48 So, yeah.
00:20:48 --> 00:20:53 Yes, they've always been a big part of it, but no one's taken over anything like
00:20:53 --> 00:20:53 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Yeah.
00:20:53 --> 00:20:53 Yeah.
00:20:54 --> 00:20:56 Well, I, I complained to my dad.
00:20:57 --> 00:21:01 My wife and I have, we have five kids and we'll be out there doing stuff.
00:21:01 --> 00:21:04 And I'm like, dad, I'm the young one here providing labor.
00:21:04 --> 00:21:08 There should be another generation out here doing the hard stuff.
00:21:08 --> 00:21:13 Now we do have, I do have a nephew that is helping us quite often, which has
00:21:13 --> 00:21:15 been really nice because that means.
00:21:15 --> 00:21:17 I don't have to run and do everything.
00:21:17 --> 00:21:18 I'm like, Hey Michael, go do that.
00:21:20 --> 00:21:22 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Yeah, it is the Amish say you
00:21:22 --> 00:21:26 invest in your kids for the first seven years and then you get your
00:21:26 --> 00:21:27 investment back the next seven
00:21:27 --> 00:21:29 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh yeah.
00:21:29 --> 00:21:30 Yeah.
00:21:30 --> 00:21:31 Yeah.
00:21:31 --> 00:21:34 Well, my siblings ran from the farm as quickly as they could.
00:21:34 --> 00:21:39 So I was, I was the one that stuck around here for, for my generation, but the
00:21:39 --> 00:21:41 next generation, yeah, we'll have to see.
00:21:43 --> 00:21:47 So when you started processing, you started with chickens, did you,
00:21:47 --> 00:21:51 have you always used Cornish cross or have you tried anything else?
00:21:51 --> 00:21:53 Wow,
00:21:53 --> 00:21:55 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: we started with Cornish Cross.
00:21:55 --> 00:22:01 They just, yeah, sure they have a bad mortality rate, but that turned around.
00:22:02 --> 00:22:06 We tried every now and then, some Freedom Rangers, or just,
00:22:06 --> 00:22:08 and, They just can't compete.
00:22:08 --> 00:22:11 You just can't get as many rounds in.
00:22:11 --> 00:22:12 They just don't grow as much.
00:22:12 --> 00:22:13 And we put it to a taste test.
00:22:13 --> 00:22:14 We, we were
00:22:14 --> 00:22:17 giving all our customers like sort of blind taste tests.
00:22:17 --> 00:22:21 We would do these like samples and they, people couldn't tell the difference.
00:22:21 --> 00:22:24 And they, it wasn't like, Oh my goodness, the Cornish cross isn't as
00:22:24 --> 00:22:24 good.
00:22:24 --> 00:22:29 They were getting enough grass and bugs and sunshine that it was doing
00:22:29 --> 00:22:31 what it needed to do nutritionally
00:22:31 --> 00:22:32 to make it taste so good.
00:22:32 --> 00:22:37 So we've just Every time we've tried a little something like that, we're going
00:22:37 --> 00:22:41 back just because economically, again, if I was homesteading, very different story,
00:22:41 --> 00:22:41 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh,
00:22:42 --> 00:22:42 right.
00:22:42 --> 00:22:44 But you've got to, you've got to manage this as a business.
00:22:45 --> 00:22:45 And I
00:22:45 --> 00:22:47 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: still are probably our biggest
00:22:47 --> 00:22:49 cash crop, so to speak.
00:22:49 --> 00:22:50 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: yeah, I do.
00:22:51 --> 00:22:55 I, I would say summarizing everyone I've talked to, majority of the
00:22:55 --> 00:22:58 people go with the Cornish cross.
00:22:58 --> 00:22:59 It's just hard to compete with that.
00:23:00 --> 00:23:03 And in fact, when we get off here today, I'm running to a post office.
00:23:03 --> 00:23:05 I've got some Cornish cross chicks to pick up.
00:23:05 --> 00:23:07 I've been, I.
00:23:07 --> 00:23:14 I pastured, I raised some, I don't know, like 10 years ago, and, and my
00:23:14 --> 00:23:18 wife didn't like them as much as she thought she would, so we didn't do it
00:23:18 --> 00:23:23 anymore but I took them somewhere to get processed In the processing, etc.
00:23:23 --> 00:23:26 So I just bought a small batch to try it again.
00:23:26 --> 00:23:29 I'm going to do it all in house and we'll see how it
00:23:30 --> 00:23:32 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: well, you know, even if you don't make
00:23:32 --> 00:23:35 money on them, they are unbelievable.
00:23:35 --> 00:23:38 You know, cyclers of nutrients.
00:23:39 --> 00:23:39 So to
00:23:39 --> 00:23:41 jumpstart a pasture,
00:23:41 --> 00:23:45 like we got access to this pasture right across from the road four
00:23:45 --> 00:23:49 years ago from us, and there's nothing like broilers to just kind of
00:23:49 --> 00:23:51 jumpstart things, wake things up,
00:23:51 --> 00:23:52 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: completely agree.
00:23:52 --> 00:23:54 I agree.
00:23:54 --> 00:23:54 Yeah.
00:23:54 --> 00:23:57 We had broiler houses.
00:23:57 --> 00:24:00 Years ago, we put in broiler houses and grew for a company.
00:24:00 --> 00:24:06 So we had 80, 90, 000 broilers, four houses, you know, that
00:24:06 --> 00:24:10 complete conventional system, which worked great for money flow.
00:24:10 --> 00:24:15 And the other thing it worked great for was we spread that litter on our
00:24:15 --> 00:24:18 pastures and it'll make rocks grow grass.
00:24:18 --> 00:24:22 And you can do the same thing with a chicken tractor and
00:24:22 --> 00:24:24 raising some pastured poultry.
00:24:24 --> 00:24:26 So you use Cornish cross for your, your broilers.
00:24:27 --> 00:24:28 What are you using for your hens?
00:24:29 --> 00:24:30 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: It's the red sex link,
00:24:31 --> 00:24:31 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, okay.
00:24:32 --> 00:24:35 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: which I think, you know, it's some F5, 000.
00:24:35 --> 00:24:38 I don't know what it is, but you know, originally it was
00:24:38 --> 00:24:40 like a roast Rhode Island red
00:24:40 --> 00:24:41 rooster with a,
00:24:42 --> 00:24:43 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: I know what you mean.
00:24:43 --> 00:24:44 Yeah.
00:24:44 --> 00:24:44 yeah,
00:24:45 --> 00:24:45 But
00:24:45 --> 00:24:46 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: they're fantastic birds.
00:24:47 --> 00:24:50 They're unbelievable, you know, really bad mothers, but
00:24:50 --> 00:24:50 they
00:24:51 --> 00:24:52 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: that's not what they're bred for.
00:24:52 --> 00:24:53 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Forage, and they will
00:24:53 --> 00:24:55 lay you beautiful eggs.
00:24:55 --> 00:24:56 And they're, I mean, they're great birds.
00:24:58 --> 00:24:58 So, yeah.
00:24:59 --> 00:25:00 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: They're a brown egg layer, correct?
00:25:00 --> 00:25:02 So you're just, you're selling all brown eggs.
00:25:03 --> 00:25:05 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Yeah, we get this thing by the time
00:25:05 --> 00:25:06 they've been laying over a year.
00:25:06 --> 00:25:07 They get whiter and
00:25:07 --> 00:25:07 whiter.
00:25:07 --> 00:25:09 So we do sell some white
00:25:09 --> 00:25:10 eggs that were
00:25:10 --> 00:25:12 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: you have a nice variety in there
00:25:12 --> 00:25:13 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: There's a variety, yes.
00:25:13 --> 00:25:16 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Do you get any feedback from consumers
00:25:16 --> 00:25:20 that they'd like some a different color egg or anything in there?
00:25:20 --> 00:25:21 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: At Easter.
00:25:22 --> 00:25:22 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, okay.
00:25:22 --> 00:25:23 Yeah.
00:25:24 --> 00:25:26 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: But otherwise, no.
00:25:26 --> 00:25:27 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Well, I grew up.
00:25:27 --> 00:25:30 We, we raised, we always had Rhode Island Reds.
00:25:30 --> 00:25:32 So we always had brown eggs.
00:25:33 --> 00:25:37 My wife doesn't understand why I'm fascinated with brown eggs because
00:25:37 --> 00:25:40 she's like, just white eggs, just white eggs, but it's a brown eggs.
00:25:40 --> 00:25:44 But I know pot, it seems pretty popular in the homestead community
00:25:44 --> 00:25:47 right now for the green or blue eggs.
00:25:47 --> 00:25:48 So I was just wondering if you got any.
00:25:48 --> 00:25:49 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: and yeah, yeah.
00:25:49 --> 00:25:53 No, I mean I have in my life, but that's not for, not for the
00:25:53 --> 00:25:55 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Yeah, right, right.
00:25:56 --> 00:25:56 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Yeah.
00:25:56 --> 00:26:00 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: then you started turkeys at the time, or you
00:26:00 --> 00:26:02 started turkeys pretty early in your
00:26:02 --> 00:26:02 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Yeah.
00:26:02 --> 00:26:03 very early.
00:26:04 --> 00:26:06 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: You're growing one
00:26:06 --> 00:26:07 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Broad breasted
00:26:07 --> 00:26:07 white.
00:26:08 --> 00:26:09 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: So,
00:26:09 --> 00:26:11 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: They're, they're wonderful foragers.
00:26:11 --> 00:26:12 They're like, I
00:26:12 --> 00:26:13 mean, they get a hard rap.
00:26:13 --> 00:26:17 One time you know, Barbara Kingsolver came through and she was, you know, promoting
00:26:17 --> 00:26:23 her book, Animal, Vegetable, Miracle, and she was harp, harping on the turkeys.
00:26:23 --> 00:26:24 I went up and talked to her afterwards.
00:26:24 --> 00:26:25 I said, you can't do that.
00:26:26 --> 00:26:27 Come to my farm.
00:26:27 --> 00:26:27 I'll show you.
00:26:27 --> 00:26:30 They're great foragers.
00:26:30 --> 00:26:31 They're so happy.
00:26:31 --> 00:26:32 They, they're much funner than the broilers.
00:26:33 --> 00:26:36 And they're just much more active and they forage.
00:26:36 --> 00:26:37 I mean they, they graze,
00:26:37 --> 00:26:38 right?
00:26:38 --> 00:26:41 That's the thing people don't realize, like hogs and poultry and all.
00:26:41 --> 00:26:42 They're like grazing.
00:26:42 --> 00:26:44 It's not just like a pick here and pick there.
00:26:44 --> 00:26:46 It's like you can, there's a line from
00:26:46 --> 00:26:48 when the fence was to the next day.
00:26:48 --> 00:26:48 Right?
00:26:48 --> 00:26:53 So, Anyways, she kind of backed off a little bit on her being quite so
00:26:53 --> 00:26:55 harsh on the turkeys after that.
00:26:55 --> 00:26:57 And I even read her book and she had taken some of
00:26:57 --> 00:26:58 that out.
00:26:58 --> 00:27:02 So that was kind of cool, but they're great, you know, and we've
00:27:02 --> 00:27:06 done some we've done some heritage breeds before, but again, you'd
00:27:06 --> 00:27:08 have to like quadruple your price.
00:27:08 --> 00:27:09 To make it worth it.
00:27:09 --> 00:27:11 And that's just doesn't make sense.
00:27:11 --> 00:27:15 So let the, let the other people worry about for us, we just
00:27:15 --> 00:27:18 worry about the heritage breeds, you know, more power to them.
00:27:18 --> 00:27:19 But as a business
00:27:20 --> 00:27:22 is nothing compared to the broad breasted whites.
00:27:23 --> 00:27:23 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Yes.
00:27:26 --> 00:27:28 That, that's good to know because I, I've thrown around the
00:27:28 --> 00:27:30 idea of raising a few turkeys.
00:27:30 --> 00:27:34 I don't think I really want to do it as a business, but I wouldn't mind raising
00:27:34 --> 00:27:39 a few because my wife gets tired of me talking about how I want my meat to
00:27:39 --> 00:27:41 be cleaner, my food made from scratch.
00:27:41 --> 00:27:44 So she gets over, she, she gets tired of my little speech on that.
00:27:45 --> 00:27:48 Are you growing one set of turkeys a year and are you
00:27:48 --> 00:27:51 shooting for processing October?
00:27:52 --> 00:27:53 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: So we.
00:27:54 --> 00:27:59 We do this, so we have 600 out there, and we start processing, actually end
00:27:59 --> 00:28:02 of October, that's like next week, we start processing, we'll do like 100.
00:28:03 --> 00:28:05 So those will be the birds that are like 10 12 pounds.
00:28:05 --> 00:28:06 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yeah.
00:28:06 --> 00:28:07 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: And then like a week or 10 days
00:28:07 --> 00:28:09 later, we'll do another group
00:28:09 --> 00:28:11 and those will be 12, 15, kind of, right?
00:28:11 --> 00:28:15 So, and then, and then we'll do three days, like right at around Thanksgiving.
00:28:15 --> 00:28:17 And those are the 20, 20 plus birds.
00:28:17 --> 00:28:20 So we get the different sizes that way.
00:28:20 --> 00:28:22 You just have to freeze it if you want.
00:28:22 --> 00:28:23 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yeah.
00:28:23 --> 00:28:25 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: you know, so that, so it's all one flock.
00:28:26 --> 00:28:26 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, okay.
00:28:27 --> 00:28:27 Yeah.
00:28:27 --> 00:28:32 And you all have, you have a processing facility set up so you all can do it right
00:28:32 --> 00:28:34 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: We've grown up a little bit, built my
00:28:34 --> 00:28:36 own processing, bought my equipment.
00:28:37 --> 00:28:38 It was an investment, you
00:28:38 --> 00:28:42 know, and but you know, it was, we, We processed at the Bright's, I
00:28:42 --> 00:28:44 think, probably seven or eight years.
00:28:45 --> 00:28:45 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh,
00:28:45 --> 00:28:47 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Before we were like, okay, we have
00:28:47 --> 00:28:49 a little bit of extra capital here.
00:28:49 --> 00:28:55 We can, you know, build a shed with cronky pad by the equipment, which is not cheap
00:28:55 --> 00:28:56 at all.
00:28:56 --> 00:28:58 So we have a, we have a scalder and we have a plucker
00:28:59 --> 00:28:59 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yeah.
00:28:59 --> 00:29:01 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: rest is just done by hand.
00:29:01 --> 00:29:01 So,
00:29:02 --> 00:29:03 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Is there in Virginia?
00:29:03 --> 00:29:08 Are you, you have some limits to how many you can process on farm?
00:29:09 --> 00:29:10 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: yeah, we get exemption, but
00:29:10 --> 00:29:11 it's very, very reasonable.
00:29:11 --> 00:29:12 It's wonderful,
00:29:12 --> 00:29:12 right?
00:29:12 --> 00:29:15 So we if you do under 1000, they don't care what you do.
00:29:16 --> 00:29:19 You just can't sell it, resell, or you can't go across state
00:29:19 --> 00:29:23 lines, but you can even sell it to family, friends, whoever you want.
00:29:23 --> 00:29:25 As soon as you get over like a thousand, it's like a thousand
00:29:25 --> 00:29:27 to twenty thousand units,
00:29:27 --> 00:29:28 right?
00:29:28 --> 00:29:30 Which, like a turkey is three units, a chicken is one, whatever,
00:29:30 --> 00:29:34 but we've never even gotten close to the twenty thousand units.
00:29:34 --> 00:29:37 But at that point, We can't go across state lines, we can't do wholesale,
00:29:37 --> 00:29:39 but we can do everything else.
00:29:40 --> 00:29:45 So what we do is we'll, Thursday we'll kill about 300.
00:29:45 --> 00:29:46 We do rounds of 300.
00:29:46 --> 00:29:49 So we'll kill, it's usually not 300 because some of them have died,
00:29:49 --> 00:29:55 Right, So, so, we'll do that and then that afternoon we might sell like 150 of them.
00:29:56 --> 00:29:58 People will come pick them up that afternoon.
00:29:58 --> 00:30:01 Then we'll put about a hundred in the, in the walk in cooler
00:30:02 --> 00:30:03 for the next day to cut up
00:30:04 --> 00:30:04 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh,
00:30:04 --> 00:30:05 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: and we'll cut up into pieces and
00:30:05 --> 00:30:07 that's all under the exemption.
00:30:07 --> 00:30:07 It's perfectly fine.
00:30:07 --> 00:30:10 So we get your breast, you get your legs, you get, you know,
00:30:10 --> 00:30:12 we'll cut up about a hundred of those and then we might have
00:30:12 --> 00:30:16 like 40 we save fresh and then I take fresh on Saturday to market.
00:30:17 --> 00:30:22 So during broiler season, almost every Saturday, I've got fresh whole birds and
00:30:22 --> 00:30:25 fresh cuts and people are spoiled rotten.
00:30:25 --> 00:30:27 So yeah, so that's how we, we do that.
00:30:27 --> 00:30:29 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Now, you mentioned 300.
00:30:29 --> 00:30:31 Is that how many fit in each tractor?
00:30:31 --> 00:30:34 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Well, it's, it's half a brooder,
00:30:34 --> 00:30:35 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Okay.
00:30:35 --> 00:30:39 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: and it's two tractors no, four tractors, four
00:30:39 --> 00:30:44 chicken tractors, right, about 75 each, or I, I have developed my own houses,
00:30:45 --> 00:30:47 and so it's two of these other houses that I actually pull by the tractor, because
00:30:47 --> 00:30:49 as I get older, I don't like to pull them.
00:30:50 --> 00:30:51 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Right, right.
00:30:51 --> 00:30:52 I, I understand.
00:30:52 --> 00:30:54 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: get a lot of interns to pull them,
00:30:54 --> 00:30:58 but I always, I like the tractors, everything's built on skids, everything's
00:30:58 --> 00:31:00 moved all the time to fresh pasture.
00:31:00 --> 00:31:05 And then 300's a good amount for us to process, cause we gotta get all
00:31:05 --> 00:31:09 the chores done, then we kill, then we gotta clean up, cause we sell from the
00:31:09 --> 00:31:11 processing shed where we just killed.
00:31:11 --> 00:31:15 So we gotta clean up, we try to be done by like noon or noon thirty.
00:31:15 --> 00:31:20 And then everyone, we eat lunch together and volunteers will come
00:31:20 --> 00:31:21 and do this and they love it.
00:31:21 --> 00:31:23 They like work hard and then we give them this great
00:31:23 --> 00:31:23 lunch
00:31:23 --> 00:31:24 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yeah.
00:31:24 --> 00:31:26 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: and then by two o'clock, two to four,
00:31:26 --> 00:31:27 people are showing up to pick up their
00:31:27 --> 00:31:28 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yeah.
00:31:28 --> 00:31:30 So do you is that
00:31:30 --> 00:31:30 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: is just a good
00:31:30 --> 00:31:33 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: is that like they have pre ordered them or they
00:31:33 --> 00:31:35 just you're saying two or four show up?
00:31:35 --> 00:31:36 We will have fresh
00:31:36 --> 00:31:38 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: No, no we set our dates at
00:31:38 --> 00:31:39 the beginning of the year.
00:31:39 --> 00:31:42 Like in March, we send out a newsletter, say here's all our processing dates.
00:31:42 --> 00:31:45 So all our poultry dates, all our broiler and our turkey dates
00:31:46 --> 00:31:49 and people just sign up and then we close it out when it gets too
00:31:49 --> 00:31:50 full and then people.
00:31:51 --> 00:31:51 I'm crying.
00:31:52 --> 00:31:52 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Yeah.
00:31:52 --> 00:31:53 Yeah.
00:31:54 --> 00:31:56 Well, and that's a good problem for you to
00:31:56 --> 00:31:57 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: It's a good problem,
00:31:57 --> 00:31:58 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Yeah.
00:31:58 --> 00:32:03 Well, let's let's move off of poultry and talk some about your hogs.
00:32:04 --> 00:32:04 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Yeah.
00:32:05 --> 00:32:08 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: You said you have 10 sows, and I know a lot of
00:32:08 --> 00:32:13 times when I talk to people, they're not doing the farrowing and finishing.
00:32:14 --> 00:32:15 A few people I've talked to are doing both.
00:32:16 --> 00:32:19 But you've got 10 sows, and you go farrow to finish.
00:32:19 --> 00:32:22 First question, I'm gonna ask right off so it's out of the way.
00:32:23 --> 00:32:24 What breeds are you working with?
00:32:25 --> 00:32:27 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: So we started out with Tamworth,
00:32:27 --> 00:32:28 right?
00:32:28 --> 00:32:31 My mentor Larry Bright was working with Tamworth.
00:32:31 --> 00:32:31 Great.
00:32:31 --> 00:32:33 And I, and I started off just getting feeder pigs from him.
00:32:34 --> 00:32:34 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yeah.
00:32:35 --> 00:32:35 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: them off.
00:32:35 --> 00:32:36 For years and years.
00:32:37 --> 00:32:41 It wasn't until we had grown quite a bit that he's like, I think it's time.
00:32:41 --> 00:32:43 You have your own sales, you know,
00:32:43 --> 00:32:44 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yes.
00:32:44 --> 00:32:46 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: can share more and, you know, you know, he's
00:32:46 --> 00:32:47 kind of like my second father and stuff.
00:32:48 --> 00:32:49 So it's great.
00:32:49 --> 00:32:54 And he was pretty solid Tamworth for a long time, but
00:32:54 --> 00:32:55 I think the breed really has.
00:32:58 --> 00:33:00 It's getting harder and harder to find because he just brings a boar in.
00:33:00 --> 00:33:01 We're not saving our own
00:33:01 --> 00:33:02 boars.
00:33:02 --> 00:33:05 And so a few years ago, we started bringing in other blood.
00:33:05 --> 00:33:09 So Berkshire or just, you know, rock or whatever, you know, you
00:33:09 --> 00:33:13 get this sort of cross, whatever you can kind of get your hands on.
00:33:13 --> 00:33:16 But again, now, like I'm all into the epigenetics.
00:33:16 --> 00:33:18 Right, so that's part of having the sow there.
00:33:19 --> 00:33:23 We, we rotationally graze, they get a fresh strip of grass every day.
00:33:24 --> 00:33:24 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: So you, so you're
00:33:25 --> 00:33:29 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Our hogs graze, and they get a ton of,
00:33:29 --> 00:33:34 right, so if, if mama's doing it, and her biome's got it all, and the piglets, you
00:33:34 --> 00:33:34 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Right.
00:33:34 --> 00:33:35 They're going to learn from her.
00:33:35 --> 00:33:37 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: they learn from her, and they got
00:33:37 --> 00:33:41 the biome going, and so, we have pig, and we've sold some, you know, some
00:33:41 --> 00:33:45 pigs before, you know, some little shoats, and people are like, Right.
00:33:46 --> 00:33:49 I thought I didn't, I, they didn't realize they opened their fence
00:33:49 --> 00:33:51 thinking, Oh, I they'll do their thing.
00:33:51 --> 00:33:51 I'll go feed them.
00:33:52 --> 00:33:53 They'll be interested in the feed.
00:33:53 --> 00:33:55 And then I'll open the fence and I'll do some work over here.
00:33:55 --> 00:33:58 Well, as soon as they opened the fence, they left their feet
00:33:58 --> 00:34:00 and started coming to the grass
00:34:00 --> 00:34:01 and they were like, Oh
00:34:01 --> 00:34:02 this is a different breed.
00:34:03 --> 00:34:04 So, right.
00:34:04 --> 00:34:08 So, yeah, and I'll, I'll put a plug into, I think another player, yeah.
00:34:09 --> 00:34:09 Right.
00:34:09 --> 00:34:11 I'm all into the soil as well.
00:34:11 --> 00:34:16 I'm well sold on the soil being there as super important and all
00:34:16 --> 00:34:20 that diversity of species and all the moving hogs are amazing.
00:34:20 --> 00:34:23 I'm going to tell a little story that I've, I tell a lot, but
00:34:23 --> 00:34:24 I think it's really important.
00:34:24 --> 00:34:25 I think it's really telling.
00:34:25 --> 00:34:27 We had sent the hogs down.
00:34:27 --> 00:34:30 We, we, I mean, we layer, our pastures, just we get oodles of
00:34:30 --> 00:34:32 different species going, right?
00:34:32 --> 00:34:35 We might get the sheep, the sheep and the And the steers might go
00:34:35 --> 00:34:38 through there three times, but I'm also getting the hogs maybe going
00:34:38 --> 00:34:39 twice and the chickens going twice.
00:34:39 --> 00:34:40 Right?
00:34:40 --> 00:34:41 So you just layer and layer.
00:34:41 --> 00:34:42 You can use your land so much more.
00:34:43 --> 00:34:48 So we'd had the this area where the hogs had been through, through half
00:34:48 --> 00:34:52 of where the sheep were going and it had just been a month or so ago.
00:34:52 --> 00:34:55 And to me, to my eyes, the grass looked gorgeous.
00:34:55 --> 00:34:57 The whole thing looked exactly the same.
00:34:58 --> 00:35:04 100 percent of the sheep and cows were where the hogs had been a month ago.
00:35:04 --> 00:35:05 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: yes.
00:35:05 --> 00:35:07 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Ate all that grass first, and
00:35:07 --> 00:35:09 then went over to the other stuff.
00:35:09 --> 00:35:11 So clearly they're cycling something.
00:35:11 --> 00:35:13 The BRX level's gotta be up higher.
00:35:13 --> 00:35:15 There's more nutrients, whatever.
00:35:15 --> 00:35:16 I don't know the science, and I don't,
00:35:17 --> 00:35:18 I don't even need to know the science.
00:35:18 --> 00:35:20 But for me, the science is watching
00:35:21 --> 00:35:24 those, those sheep go, Okay, this stuff's much better.
00:35:24 --> 00:35:26 And it was like a hundred percent.
00:35:26 --> 00:35:29 My wife and I were just looking like, This isn't just like, oh, they're favoring it.
00:35:29 --> 00:35:30 It is like a
00:35:30 --> 00:35:31 hundred percent on this
00:35:31 --> 00:35:31 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: yes.
00:35:31 --> 00:35:32 Yeah.
00:35:32 --> 00:35:34 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Just chowing down and when they're
00:35:34 --> 00:35:36 done with that, they're like, okay, we'll go over and eat this
00:35:36 --> 00:35:40 other beautiful lush grass that you couldn't tell the difference at all.
00:35:40 --> 00:35:44 You know, it's just at the perfect stage, but where the hogs had been,
00:35:44 --> 00:35:46 that's where they wanted to eat.
00:35:46 --> 00:35:47 So something's going on there.
00:35:47 --> 00:35:49 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: You know, your story reminds me and I really hadn't
00:35:49 --> 00:35:51 thought about this in a long time.
00:35:51 --> 00:35:57 When we'd spread those, that chicken litter from those boiler houses, Where it
00:35:57 --> 00:36:02 was always a darker green and you could tell where we spread it and a lot of times
00:36:02 --> 00:36:05 we would spread We had to keep track of where we spread it and we know where it
00:36:05 --> 00:36:11 was or we might leave a gap Accidentally between a couple loads, but those cattle
00:36:11 --> 00:36:16 wanted to graze Where we had fertilized where we'd put that broiler lead
00:36:16 --> 00:36:18 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: If you, if you give it enough time.
00:36:18 --> 00:36:19 Yeah
00:36:19 --> 00:36:20 it can't be right away.
00:36:20 --> 00:36:21 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Yeah.
00:36:21 --> 00:36:22 Yeah right away.
00:36:22 --> 00:36:23 I don't want to be there.
00:36:23 --> 00:36:27 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: yeah, I had, I had hadn't
00:36:27 --> 00:36:28 done this as much with hogs.
00:36:28 --> 00:36:31 I'd done this with the poultry, but what I, I guess what I would say is
00:36:31 --> 00:36:33 that it's even better with the hogs.
00:36:33 --> 00:36:34 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh Yes.
00:36:34 --> 00:36:35 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: prefer where the hogs have been
00:36:35 --> 00:36:37 over where the chickens have
00:36:37 --> 00:36:38 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh Interesting.
00:36:38 --> 00:36:39 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: tell you why,
00:36:39 --> 00:36:42 but there's some sort of synergy going on there.
00:36:42 --> 00:36:43 So yeah.
00:36:43 --> 00:36:45 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: how are you managing shelter for your
00:36:45 --> 00:36:47 hogs with moving them every day?
00:36:47 --> 00:36:48 And how are you managing water?
00:36:48 --> 00:36:48 You
00:36:50 --> 00:36:53 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: So again, we're small, right?
00:36:53 --> 00:36:56 So, our biggest group of hogs is going to be like 40.
00:36:57 --> 00:36:57 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh yeah.
00:36:57 --> 00:37:00 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Right, which is a lot of
00:37:00 --> 00:37:01 meat when you think about
00:37:01 --> 00:37:04 it you know, I mean, I hear a lot of your people on your podcast, they have
00:37:04 --> 00:37:09 5, 000 acres, they have 5, 000 this, whatever, but it's still a lot to do.
00:37:10 --> 00:37:11 You have 40 hogs in a group, right?
00:37:11 --> 00:37:14 So you had it's all done with electric netting,
00:37:14 --> 00:37:15 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh yes.
00:37:15 --> 00:37:16 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: And then our houses.
00:37:17 --> 00:37:18 Everything's on skids,
00:37:18 --> 00:37:19 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh
00:37:19 --> 00:37:20 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: and then I just have these hex bolts, these
00:37:20 --> 00:37:25 half inch hex bolts, and I just throw a chain around it, and I put my tractor, and
00:37:25 --> 00:37:27 this is a one person job if you need to.
00:37:27 --> 00:37:30 I've done, I've done everything on my farm one person.
00:37:30 --> 00:37:32 I mean, you can do two people, it's sometimes nicer
00:37:32 --> 00:37:34 to have quite a few people,
00:37:34 --> 00:37:34 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh yeah.
00:37:34 --> 00:37:36 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: and then I just drag it with a tractor.
00:37:37 --> 00:37:37 Right.
00:37:37 --> 00:37:41 And then I have the waters on skids and then we have a chain on them.
00:37:41 --> 00:37:43 I go back with the tractor and I throw that chain on the hitch
00:37:44 --> 00:37:45 and I just pull the water.
00:37:46 --> 00:37:50 And we've been we did get sort of be when working on putting the I
00:37:50 --> 00:37:53 can't talk the the underground water
00:37:54 --> 00:37:55 where you have the plugins.
00:37:55 --> 00:37:59 And so the more of that we can get in, in our pastures, you know, so
00:37:59 --> 00:38:02 you're only going to have to need two or three hoses at the most,
00:38:03 --> 00:38:04 and you can put the water anywhere.
00:38:05 --> 00:38:08 And it was great because we were at just recently.
00:38:08 --> 00:38:10 We had this wonderful opportunity.
00:38:10 --> 00:38:12 Alan Williams came to Virginia Tech
00:38:12 --> 00:38:13 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: yes,
00:38:13 --> 00:38:15 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: and so I took our whole crew,
00:38:15 --> 00:38:22 my wife and I, and four, four, four employees here and great, wonderful,
00:38:23 --> 00:38:27 Alan Williams is the best, but one of the things he stressed was, you
00:38:27 --> 00:38:28 know, to keep changing that water
00:38:29 --> 00:38:29 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: oh
00:38:29 --> 00:38:31 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: he shows his water, like he had, like,
00:38:31 --> 00:38:35 I don't know, a thousand cattle or something and he's got one trough.
00:38:36 --> 00:38:37 On wheels.
00:38:37 --> 00:38:40 And he's like, you know, it's actually important for them not to learn,
00:38:40 --> 00:38:44 not to mob the trough and to learn to, you know, and he's like, and he
00:38:44 --> 00:38:48 was just stressing how important it was to just keep that water moving.
00:38:48 --> 00:38:50 And one of the things as we've been putting these lines and we've
00:38:50 --> 00:38:52 gotten some help from like NRCS and
00:38:52 --> 00:38:52 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: oh yeah.
00:38:53 --> 00:38:54 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: and they're like, Oh, you got to
00:38:54 --> 00:38:55 put in these permanent water things.
00:38:55 --> 00:38:58 And my wife and I have been resisting these, resisting these because we just
00:38:58 --> 00:39:00 like our waters in a different place
00:39:00 --> 00:39:01 Every time.
00:39:01 --> 00:39:02 they come through.
00:39:03 --> 00:39:05 And we just felt kind of vindicated.
00:39:05 --> 00:39:06 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh yes!
00:39:06 --> 00:39:07 Yeah!
00:39:07 --> 00:39:08 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: And we were like, Oh, yeah, well,
00:39:08 --> 00:39:10 Alan Williams is on our page.
00:39:10 --> 00:39:13 And yeah, so it's just on skids, and we move it, we
00:39:13 --> 00:39:18 fill it with, you know, and for the steers, we do have like a float valve.
00:39:19 --> 00:39:21 And so that, but still, it's not that much.
00:39:21 --> 00:39:23 It's just like 100 gallon tub.
00:39:24 --> 00:39:27 Or we might have two of them out there and one on so yeah, or the sheep,
00:39:27 --> 00:39:28 it's a 50 gallon because it's a little
00:39:29 --> 00:39:29 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yeah.
00:39:30 --> 00:39:31 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: And sheep don't even drink as much,
00:39:32 --> 00:39:35 so anyways, yeah, so it's, I mean, I guess it's a lot of manual, so
00:39:35 --> 00:39:39 you're using hoses and you're plugging them in, but like, for us, that
00:39:39 --> 00:39:42 flexibility and the moving, that's keyed
00:39:42 --> 00:39:43 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yeah.
00:39:44 --> 00:39:46 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: And so, yeah,
00:39:46 --> 00:39:48 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: With your, your moving, you, you've mentioned
00:39:48 --> 00:39:51 this a little bit earlier, I believe, that, you know, your cattle and sheep
00:39:51 --> 00:39:56 may go over an area three times, your hogs may go over a couple times,
00:39:57 --> 00:40:00 and you've got turkeys, you've got your layers, you've got broilers.
00:40:00 --> 00:40:04 How are you keeping track of where you're grazing everything, and how are you
00:40:04 --> 00:40:07 moving them through your, your pasture?
00:40:08 --> 00:40:09 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: good question.
00:40:09 --> 00:40:13 When we're on top of things, we do have a grazing chart.
00:40:14 --> 00:40:15 We always get behind,
00:40:16 --> 00:40:16 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yes.
00:40:17 --> 00:40:20 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: you know, but we through, you know, through
00:40:20 --> 00:40:22 everybody and everyone's got phones.
00:40:22 --> 00:40:24 We sometimes we've even gone back and looked at pictures.
00:40:24 --> 00:40:26 When did you take that picture?
00:40:26 --> 00:40:26 Oh,
00:40:26 --> 00:40:28 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: I, I love pictures for that.
00:40:29 --> 00:40:29 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: It's dated.
00:40:29 --> 00:40:30 Okay.
00:40:30 --> 00:40:30 It's okay.
00:40:30 --> 00:40:31 Because, because we wait.
00:40:32 --> 00:40:33 Especially for the sheep.
00:40:33 --> 00:40:34 We wait 60 days.
00:40:34 --> 00:40:35 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yes.
00:40:35 --> 00:40:36 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: We have developed, so we know we
00:40:36 --> 00:40:40 have, I haven't wormed a sheep in probably four or five years.
00:40:40 --> 00:40:41 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, very nice.
00:40:41 --> 00:40:44 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: And we might lose one, you know, or
00:40:44 --> 00:40:49 two, maybe a year from, from parasites very, you know, much, much higher
00:40:49 --> 00:40:51 than anyone who's using Wormers,
00:40:51 --> 00:40:53 much, much better mortality rate, I should
00:40:53 --> 00:40:57 say, so lower and so, that 60 days is important.
00:40:57 --> 00:41:00 So it's not just the grass, what stage it's at.
00:41:00 --> 00:41:03 It's also the cycles of, you know, the barbacole worm and
00:41:03 --> 00:41:03 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yeah.
00:41:05 --> 00:41:08 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Yeah, no, I'm we, so the, we do pay
00:41:08 --> 00:41:11 attention to that when we're at our best, we're using a grazing chart, we
00:41:11 --> 00:41:15 got it all color coordinated and we got it all marked out and we do have all
00:41:15 --> 00:41:17 our land sort of parceled out in areas.
00:41:17 --> 00:41:20 So we know where, you know, generally where they were at what time.
00:41:20 --> 00:41:21 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yeah.
00:41:22 --> 00:41:27 One thing we haven't talked about your sheep or cattle yet, but I'm thinking
00:41:27 --> 00:41:31 we may save that for the bonus segment and we can talk about those more.
00:41:32 --> 00:41:37 Because we've, we spent this whole time talking about kind of getting started
00:41:37 --> 00:41:42 and starting from scratch with little capital, little infrastructure, but
00:41:43 --> 00:41:48 that's our overgrazing topic for today, an overgrazing topic sponsored by Redmond.
00:41:48 --> 00:41:52 Cal: At Redmond, we know that you thrive when your animals do.
00:41:52 --> 00:41:56 That's why it's essential to fill the gaps in your herd's nutrition
00:41:56 --> 00:41:58 with the minerals that they need.
00:41:59 --> 00:42:04 Made by nature, our ancient mineral salt and conditioner clay are the
00:42:04 --> 00:42:09 catalyst in optimizing the nutrients your animals get from their forage.
00:42:10 --> 00:42:14 Unaltered and unrefined, our minerals have the natural balance and proportion
00:42:14 --> 00:42:17 to help that your animals prefer.
00:42:17 --> 00:42:21 This gives your herd the ability to naturally regulate their
00:42:21 --> 00:42:24 mineral consumption as they graze.
00:42:25 --> 00:42:28 Our minerals won't just help you improve the health of your animals,
00:42:29 --> 00:42:34 but will also help you naturally build soil fertility so you can grow more
00:42:34 --> 00:42:36 nutrient dense pasture year after year.
00:42:37 --> 00:42:41 Nourish your animals, your soil, and your life with Redmond.
00:42:42 --> 00:42:43 Learn more at redmondagriculture.
00:42:45 --> 00:42:45 com
00:42:46 --> 00:42:48 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: And we're going to take a little bit deeper dive.
00:42:48 --> 00:42:52 So I wanted to get that in there because I felt like we kind of spent the whole
00:42:52 --> 00:42:57 episode on that topic, but let's hone in just a little bit more on that.
00:42:58 --> 00:43:02 Because I feel like so many people's in that position, just getting started.
00:43:02 --> 00:43:08 How do you get started when you have no capital or very little capital to, to go?
00:43:09 --> 00:43:10 First off, just getting the farm.
00:43:10 --> 00:43:12 How were you able to get the farm?
00:43:12 --> 00:43:16 Did you all have money saved up or how did that work?
00:43:16 --> 00:43:18 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: That was a community effort.
00:43:18 --> 00:43:23 We went in with my wife's brother and his wife which he's he was
00:43:23 --> 00:43:24 actually I knew him before I knew her.
00:43:25 --> 00:43:26 He's one of my best friends, right?
00:43:26 --> 00:43:29 And another couple helped us with like down payment.
00:43:30 --> 00:43:34 And then so, and then we eventually, we bought them out, but so we've remained
00:43:35 --> 00:43:38 you know, we've remained partners, I guess, with her brother and, and wife.
00:43:39 --> 00:43:42 And my dad has always sort of been there financially, you
00:43:42 --> 00:43:43 know, backing me up if we need.
00:43:43 --> 00:43:45 So I've had a lot of support,
00:43:45 --> 00:43:46 family,
00:43:46 --> 00:43:48 and that was how we bought the land.
00:43:49 --> 00:43:51 And then the rest we just had to generate ourselves.
00:43:51 --> 00:43:52 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yeah.
00:43:52 --> 00:43:55 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: So one thing I wanted to just throw out there was
00:43:55 --> 00:43:58 that we never put permanent fencing up.
00:43:59 --> 00:44:00 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yes.
00:44:00 --> 00:44:04 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: So because we're using this electric netting
00:44:04 --> 00:44:07 and poly wire and whatnot, I just have a.
00:44:08 --> 00:44:12 Just temporary posts with one high tensile wire that goes around the perimeter,
00:44:12 --> 00:44:14 and that's just feeding electricity.
00:44:14 --> 00:44:15 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yes.
00:44:15 --> 00:44:18 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: And then when I need to, like, I can either
00:44:18 --> 00:44:21 get the fence on the other side of it and get the, you know, the animals to graze
00:44:21 --> 00:44:25 it, or I can just lift them all up and I can brush hog it, like, once a year.
00:44:25 --> 00:44:27 So, you know, you don't like come.
00:44:27 --> 00:44:30 I just one of the things we never sprayed anything right so
00:44:30 --> 00:44:35 spraying like poison ivy or whatever on the post was just it
00:44:35 --> 00:44:37 was just non negotiable for us.
00:44:37 --> 00:44:40 We've never sprayed fertilizer or a pesticide you know, any kind
00:44:40 --> 00:44:42 of poisons or anything, right?
00:44:42 --> 00:44:45 So, but that also turns out to be, I mean, putting in
00:44:45 --> 00:44:47 perimeter fences extraordinarily.
00:44:47 --> 00:44:48 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, it is.
00:44:48 --> 00:44:49 It is.
00:44:49 --> 00:44:49 Yes.
00:44:50 --> 00:44:52 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: And people are like, well, you're you
00:44:52 --> 00:44:53 know, aren't your netting expensive?
00:44:55 --> 00:44:57 I'm picking it up and moving it, right?
00:44:57 --> 00:45:00 So yes, okay, it's expensive, but I'm just using it all the time.
00:45:00 --> 00:45:03 And I, the flexibility is really important.
00:45:04 --> 00:45:07 So, we didn't have to have that infrastructure and
00:45:07 --> 00:45:12 like, like, Like, if we go into the sheep or the, the steers, I
00:45:12 --> 00:45:13 don't have a sorting area for them.
00:45:14 --> 00:45:19 I have this thing where if I need to work the sheep, it takes me, well, with
00:45:19 --> 00:45:21 another person, it takes me about an hour.
00:45:21 --> 00:45:22 I set up some cattle panels.
00:45:23 --> 00:45:26 I set up a couple, like a guillotine and a sorting thing and
00:45:26 --> 00:45:27 maybe something to weigh.
00:45:28 --> 00:45:31 And then we use the netting and shoe them into this thing.
00:45:32 --> 00:45:37 And it's built right onto, like, against, near, like, one of the walls
00:45:37 --> 00:45:38 is the actual house that I pull.
00:45:39 --> 00:45:39 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yeah.
00:45:40 --> 00:45:42 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: So it takes like an hour or two to
00:45:42 --> 00:45:43 set up and an hour to take down.
00:45:43 --> 00:45:44 And then we'll work all the sheep.
00:45:45 --> 00:45:46 No, it doesn't take an hour to take down.
00:45:46 --> 00:45:48 It takes like 20 minutes to take down,
00:45:48 --> 00:45:48 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yeah
00:45:49 --> 00:45:51 It's always easier going that way.
00:45:51 --> 00:45:51 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Right?
00:45:51 --> 00:45:57 So, but that's like, so I don't have to, I don't have a big, you know, you can spend.
00:45:58 --> 00:45:59 Tens and tens of thousands
00:45:59 --> 00:46:03 on an area to work your, your animals and I have never, you know, I have
00:46:03 --> 00:46:06 cattle panel and some, some gates,
00:46:07 --> 00:46:07 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yeah.
00:46:08 --> 00:46:08 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: right?
00:46:08 --> 00:46:11 So that's just, and when I want to get my steers, I mean, our steers
00:46:11 --> 00:46:15 are so used to being worked because we, we move them twice a day, right?
00:46:15 --> 00:46:18 So they, I'll just set up some cattle gates.
00:46:18 --> 00:46:22 And I'll just slowly work them and I'll use the netting and I'll
00:46:22 --> 00:46:25 just put my trailer there and I'll walk them into the trailer, right?
00:46:25 --> 00:46:31 so just as examples of not having to have as much infrastructure
00:46:31 --> 00:46:32 as you might think you need to
00:46:33 --> 00:46:37 and Learning more the animal husbandry part the more, you know, and the more
00:46:37 --> 00:46:41 you can read animals and work with animals Actually, I think the less
00:46:42 --> 00:46:44 Infrastructure you actually need so
00:46:44 --> 00:46:48 like Every Every building I have is no bigger.
00:46:48 --> 00:46:50 Like my biggest buildings are like 20 by 12.
00:46:50 --> 00:46:58 Because I buy these, I buy a 6x6 skid, 20 foot long, and it might be like 12
00:46:58 --> 00:46:59 foot wide, and those are my houses.
00:46:59 --> 00:47:03 And so if I need two or three of them for my, for my steers and for my
00:47:03 --> 00:47:06 flirds, then I put three of them on,
00:47:06 --> 00:47:06 right?
00:47:06 --> 00:47:10 But they're all very easily dragged with a tractor and all.
00:47:10 --> 00:47:14 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: So, so none of the, the shade or shelter that you're
00:47:14 --> 00:47:16 giving your animals are permanent.
00:47:16 --> 00:47:20 They're all on these movable shelters with skids that you're
00:47:20 --> 00:47:22 able to connect to and move.
00:47:22 --> 00:47:23 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Yeah, I mean the only exception
00:47:23 --> 00:47:25 would be like the brooders right?
00:47:25 --> 00:47:29 Then the hoop houses in the winter for three months, the
00:47:29 --> 00:47:32 hens will hook up to them, but their houses hook up to them, and they
00:47:32 --> 00:47:36 have access to inside the warm hoop house, and they have access outside.
00:47:37 --> 00:47:40 And if it's not windy, it can be 20 degrees out there, and they're going to go
00:47:40 --> 00:47:42 outside, because they love to be outside.
00:47:43 --> 00:47:43 But
00:47:43 --> 00:47:43 yeah.
00:47:43 --> 00:47:45 otherwise Nothing is permanent.
00:47:45 --> 00:47:50 Everything is, you know, movable and everything is temporary.
00:47:50 --> 00:47:50 Yeah,
00:47:50 --> 00:47:51 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Now, one thing you mentioned there,
00:47:51 --> 00:47:53 you move them with your tractor.
00:47:54 --> 00:47:57 Were you, were your first structures all where you can move them?
00:47:57 --> 00:48:00 By hand until you were able to get a tractor.
00:48:01 --> 00:48:03 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: I did mention that, that big that
00:48:03 --> 00:48:05 it was a big one for us because I couldn't move it by hand.
00:48:05 --> 00:48:06 I could push it a little
00:48:06 --> 00:48:07 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yeah.
00:48:07 --> 00:48:09 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: I moved it by my grand caravan,
00:48:10 --> 00:48:10 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yeah.
00:48:10 --> 00:48:12 Yeah, you you'd mentioned that earlier.
00:48:12 --> 00:48:12 Yes.
00:48:13 --> 00:48:15 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: And I still have that building.
00:48:15 --> 00:48:15 It's held
00:48:15 --> 00:48:17 up and I still use it.
00:48:17 --> 00:48:21 But I, I move it by tractor, but yeah, so at first it was just all by hand.
00:48:22 --> 00:48:24 For the first few years except for that one.
00:48:24 --> 00:48:29 And then yeah, I mean, we got a tractor like about a year in, we got a
00:48:29 --> 00:48:33 tractor and so then I could start building things for that stuff.
00:48:33 --> 00:48:33 So,
00:48:33 --> 00:48:35 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: and you mentioned a tractor.
00:48:35 --> 00:48:37 Do you use a four wheeler or UTV?
00:48:38 --> 00:48:40 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: I don't this has been a big discussion.
00:48:40 --> 00:48:42 It's extraordinarily expensive.
00:48:42 --> 00:48:46 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: are I I've looked at them I would love to get one and
00:48:46 --> 00:48:48 I'm just like I can't justify the cost.
00:48:49 --> 00:48:52 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: So, our ATVs are Subaru Foresters.
00:48:52 --> 00:48:53 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yeah.
00:48:54 --> 00:48:59 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: They have great traction, they have plenty
00:48:59 --> 00:49:03 of space to put, you can actually carry people, you're protected from the rain,
00:49:03 --> 00:49:05 and they're like, a fourth the price.
00:49:06 --> 00:49:06 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: yes.
00:49:07 --> 00:49:11 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: So, I just, I've looked into, I just couldn't,
00:49:11 --> 00:49:15 I just couldn't believe the prices, I couldn't believe, and you're not, and, and
00:49:15 --> 00:49:17 my Subaru can pull some of those houses.
00:49:17 --> 00:49:17 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: yeah
00:49:18 --> 00:49:20 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: These, like, so it's like, what's the point?
00:49:20 --> 00:49:20 Right.
00:49:20 --> 00:49:24 And you can buy one for a few grand versus like 20 grand.
00:49:24 --> 00:49:26 If you wanted to pull anything, you
00:49:26 --> 00:49:28 know, if you want to have anything with power.
00:49:28 --> 00:49:31 So yeah, ours are Subaru Foresters.
00:49:32 --> 00:49:33 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: I, I do.
00:49:33 --> 00:49:34 I've wondered about that.
00:49:34 --> 00:49:38 I've looked at some older Jeeps and some other things.
00:49:38 --> 00:49:43 I mean, I have my, my pickup, but really, to be honest, it's a little.
00:49:43 --> 00:49:46 Overqualified for that and too much money I spent on that.
00:49:46 --> 00:49:50 I think if I had something a little bit smaller, just barely do some stuff, it'd
00:49:50 --> 00:49:58 be nice, but I look at those prices and especially for you TVs, I'm like, Oh man.
00:49:59 --> 00:50:07 Yeah, well, my parents have one and I use it occasionally, but I hate to use it
00:50:07 --> 00:50:09 every day and put all those hours on it.
00:50:11 --> 00:50:16 On, you, you mentioned about water and you're getting pipes in ground where
00:50:16 --> 00:50:18 you're able to connect into them.
00:50:18 --> 00:50:21 How did you handle water before you had the pipes underground?
00:50:21 --> 00:50:24 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: So we just, I had when we originally
00:50:24 --> 00:50:28 were, I mean, we built our house and while we were like setting up
00:50:28 --> 00:50:31 infrastructure, I mean, I guess it was way before we built our house.
00:50:31 --> 00:50:35 We just, we got in like four hydrants.
00:50:35 --> 00:50:35 Yeah.
00:50:35 --> 00:50:36 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh
00:50:36 --> 00:50:36 yeah.
00:50:36 --> 00:50:37 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: spread out.
00:50:37 --> 00:50:40 And then, like, literally, we would have ten hoses
00:50:40 --> 00:50:41 that we
00:50:41 --> 00:50:41 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh yeah.
00:50:42 --> 00:50:42 Yeah.
00:50:42 --> 00:50:44 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: because that movie was so important to us,
00:50:44 --> 00:50:47 so we would, we would work with ten hoses to get to the edge of the fields.
00:50:47 --> 00:50:51 I mean, we were working with less acreage at the time and it would
00:50:51 --> 00:50:52 just, off those hydrants and hoses.
00:50:52 --> 00:50:53 Yeah, it was so important to
00:50:54 --> 00:50:54 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yes.
00:50:55 --> 00:50:56 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: that we do that.
00:50:56 --> 00:50:58 So we'd have, like, one close to each field.
00:50:59 --> 00:50:59 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Yeah.
00:50:59 --> 00:51:03 So, so you spend a little bit of money and got some hydrants close
00:51:03 --> 00:51:07 that you all could work with and then you utilize a fair number of
00:51:07 --> 00:51:10 garden hoses to get it the last mile.
00:51:10 --> 00:51:11 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Four ways.
00:51:12 --> 00:51:13 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Yeah, but it works.
00:51:13 --> 00:51:13 It works.
00:51:13 --> 00:51:16 If you want to do it, you can make it happen.
00:51:16 --> 00:51:17 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Absolutely.
00:51:18 --> 00:51:18 Yeah.
00:51:19 --> 00:51:22 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: As you think about someone, since we're kind of
00:51:22 --> 00:51:28 on this topic of starting without too much and building up, what, what
00:51:28 --> 00:51:32 would you tell someone who's sitting there thinking, I want to get started?
00:51:32 --> 00:51:34 I know we're going to have the famous four questions going to be kind of like this,
00:51:34 --> 00:51:36 but it's going to be a little different.
00:51:36 --> 00:51:38 That's thinking, I don't have money to do anything.
00:51:39 --> 00:51:41 How do they get started?
00:51:43 --> 00:51:43 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Yeah.
00:51:45 --> 00:51:46 I mean, it's not easy, right?
00:51:46 --> 00:51:50 So I, I would say find an internship, right?
00:51:50 --> 00:51:53 First, get some experience because you need experience.
00:51:53 --> 00:51:55 And it's not just right.
00:51:55 --> 00:51:58 It's not just experience of having some techniques or
00:51:58 --> 00:51:59 knowing how much to feed away.
00:52:00 --> 00:52:00 Right?
00:52:00 --> 00:52:01 One of the things.
00:52:02 --> 00:52:07 I'm actually think that what we do as much as anything else has
00:52:07 --> 00:52:08 changed the way people think.
00:52:09 --> 00:52:10 They might not realize it, right?
00:52:10 --> 00:52:14 But like, how do you, if you're not used to working outdoors, if you're
00:52:14 --> 00:52:17 not used to working with animals, and if you're not used to working with
00:52:17 --> 00:52:23 multiple variables all the time, and diplomatic sort of tussling, and you
00:52:23 --> 00:52:26 know, how do you strategize, how do you make judgments, how do you, all these
00:52:26 --> 00:52:29 things, like, You really don't know.
00:52:30 --> 00:52:30 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh,
00:52:30 --> 00:52:32 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: not even know how to work hard, right?
00:52:32 --> 00:52:32 So like,
00:52:33 --> 00:52:33 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: yes.
00:52:33 --> 00:52:37 I, I see that way too often is that work hard is a little bit
00:52:37 --> 00:52:39 tougher than I thought it would be.
00:52:40 --> 00:52:41 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: yeah, I mean people just haven't
00:52:41 --> 00:52:45 done a lot of manual labor and the learning skills of the hands is
00:52:45 --> 00:52:47 like learning to get into that flow.
00:52:48 --> 00:52:52 It's something that people, you just have to do it, right?
00:52:52 --> 00:52:56 So like we're changing the way you think as much as anything else.
00:52:56 --> 00:53:00 And I think that's worth going onto a farm and learning how they do it.
00:53:00 --> 00:53:03 But also I don't care how structured a farm is.
00:53:03 --> 00:53:05 You're going to have those days where.
00:53:05 --> 00:53:06 You got to make some judgment calls
00:53:07 --> 00:53:10 and something's gone wrong and you got to figure out, you know, and you also
00:53:10 --> 00:53:13 have to figure out what's important, what follows what, you know, you
00:53:13 --> 00:53:17 know, and so that's crazy important.
00:53:17 --> 00:53:21 Now, it is a huge barrier.
00:53:21 --> 00:53:22 Land is a huge barrier.
00:53:22 --> 00:53:25 So I know there's a lot of people who are talking about,
00:53:25 --> 00:53:27 you know, using leased land.
00:53:27 --> 00:53:30 If you have that experience, then you can look.
00:53:30 --> 00:53:32 I know how to, I know how to rotationally graze.
00:53:33 --> 00:53:33 Animals.
00:53:34 --> 00:53:35 I can make your fields better,
00:53:35 --> 00:53:35 right?
00:53:35 --> 00:53:38 There are people who are able to, to sell that.
00:53:38 --> 00:53:44 So land access is huge, obviously, but the experience is also more
00:53:44 --> 00:53:45 than I think people realize.
00:53:46 --> 00:53:47 And we change the way people think, right?
00:53:47 --> 00:53:50 I'm I write a lot.
00:53:50 --> 00:53:51 I do a little bit of podcasting.
00:53:51 --> 00:53:53 I've written a manuscript and everything.
00:53:53 --> 00:53:55 And one of the things I try to get across is that we start,
00:53:55 --> 00:53:58 we think of things as nouns.
00:53:58 --> 00:54:01 In a, in a way that it's not really right, right?
00:54:01 --> 00:54:02 Like I was a philosophy major.
00:54:02 --> 00:54:05 So we kind of believe that we describe things.
00:54:05 --> 00:54:07 Well, chairs got four legs and a seat
00:54:07 --> 00:54:09 in the back and, you know, you sit on it, right?
00:54:09 --> 00:54:11 And you can't look at soil that way.
00:54:12 --> 00:54:14 So it's not really a thing, right?
00:54:14 --> 00:54:17 It's a thing, maybe in the way that economy is.
00:54:17 --> 00:54:17 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: oh,
00:54:18 --> 00:54:18 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Right.
00:54:18 --> 00:54:22 Like exactly define my, like, can you tell me how many legs does an economy have?
00:54:22 --> 00:54:22 Right.
00:54:22 --> 00:54:25 I mean, you can make up stuff, but it's all going to be metaphors.
00:54:26 --> 00:54:27 It's just thing in action.
00:54:28 --> 00:54:28 Right.
00:54:28 --> 00:54:29 And so it's like these verbs.
00:54:29 --> 00:54:35 And so like looking at systems, looking at soil, looking at all these different
00:54:35 --> 00:54:39 things, it's all, it's the interactions are actually much more important.
00:54:39 --> 00:54:39 Right.
00:54:39 --> 00:54:42 And the more interaction and suddenly diversity then makes sense.
00:54:42 --> 00:54:42 Right.
00:54:42 --> 00:54:44 Because if you have more players in the game, you have more
00:54:44 --> 00:54:47 interactions, it becomes exponential.
00:54:47 --> 00:54:47 Right?
00:54:47 --> 00:54:48 Right?
00:54:48 --> 00:54:51 And if, if it's the interactions that's creating soil, if it's the
00:54:51 --> 00:54:54 interaction between the rycol, ryzol, fungi, and the, and the roots, it's
00:54:54 --> 00:54:58 the interactions between the manure and the urine and the soil, the
00:54:58 --> 00:55:01 interactions between the grasping, all these different actions, they compound.
00:55:01 --> 00:55:03 That's a word that Alan uses.
00:55:03 --> 00:55:06 I've used synergy and I've used different words like that, but he uses
00:55:06 --> 00:55:08 compounding effects, which I like.
00:55:08 --> 00:55:08 It's a
00:55:08 --> 00:55:08 great word.
00:55:09 --> 00:55:10 Suddenly it's not really a noun.
00:55:11 --> 00:55:11 Right.
00:55:11 --> 00:55:14 What's going on is, is an economy is, it's much more verby.
00:55:15 --> 00:55:16 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yes.
00:55:16 --> 00:55:20 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: So you're, you, that's, and that's an art.
00:55:21 --> 00:55:21 Right.
00:55:21 --> 00:55:25 So I guess my whole point I'm getting to is you teach people.
00:55:25 --> 00:55:28 It's like teaching people like Kung Fu or something, right?
00:55:28 --> 00:55:31 You can't just, Oh, I learned my techniques on YouTube
00:55:32 --> 00:55:32 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh,
00:55:32 --> 00:55:34 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: and I did this and I know exactly
00:55:34 --> 00:55:38 how to do it because you're gonna go out there and Nature and life is
00:55:38 --> 00:55:39 just gonna throw you a left hook,
00:55:39 --> 00:55:40 right?
00:55:40 --> 00:55:42 And so you just you got to do it a thousand times
00:55:43 --> 00:55:46 And as you do it, you gotta learn, and you, and you, it's an art form, and
00:55:46 --> 00:55:50 so it's much more, it's knowledge of the body, it's knowledge of intuition,
00:55:50 --> 00:55:55 it's knowledge as much as it is head knowledge, and that can only be learned
00:55:55 --> 00:56:00 hands on, that can only be learned by doing it, by working with someone who's
00:56:00 --> 00:56:04 got experience, you know, like, I'm starting to be that guy who's got more
00:56:04 --> 00:56:07 experience, but for me, it was working with, you know, this older couple,
00:56:07 --> 00:56:08 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: yeah.
00:56:08 --> 00:56:09 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: particularly Larry, who was my
00:56:09 --> 00:56:13 mentor, just, you know, just watched and learned, and, you know, A lot
00:56:13 --> 00:56:17 of osmosis, you know, and you know, now and then I pick his brain just
00:56:18 --> 00:56:21 working side by side for him, you know, just that's that's super valuable.
00:56:21 --> 00:56:23 So that's kind of what our internship is trying to do.
00:56:23 --> 00:56:25 And it can frustrate a lot of people.
00:56:25 --> 00:56:27 I just want to know how many buckets to feed.
00:56:27 --> 00:56:28 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: yeah.
00:56:28 --> 00:56:30 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Well, today was colder.
00:56:30 --> 00:56:35 Yesterday was this, or you know, or they, what, and you read the animals.
00:56:36 --> 00:56:36 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: right.
00:56:36 --> 00:56:37 Yeah.
00:56:37 --> 00:56:38 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: do you read animals?
00:56:38 --> 00:56:42 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: But as you think about you You don't know the questions
00:56:42 --> 00:56:44 to ask until you're in the middle of it.
00:56:44 --> 00:56:49 Sure, you know some questions to ask, but do you know the real questions to ask?
00:56:49 --> 00:56:53 And until you, you've got into it, you may not know those questions.
00:56:53 --> 00:56:54 I
00:56:54 --> 00:56:55 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Oh, you absolutely
00:56:55 --> 00:56:58 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: I, I like to think I'm fairly intelligent, and
00:56:58 --> 00:56:59 at times I think I'm fairly dumb.
00:57:00 --> 00:57:02 So either way, but we got a hair sheep.
00:57:03 --> 00:57:08 It's been a number of years ago and I thought I, I took a course on sheep.
00:57:08 --> 00:57:11 I've been around all kinds of animals my whole life.
00:57:11 --> 00:57:13 I thought this is just another species.
00:57:13 --> 00:57:14 It won't be any problem.
00:57:15 --> 00:57:18 There was, I hate to admit how steep that learning curve was.
00:57:19 --> 00:57:21 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: It's, yeah, I've still, I'm still learning
00:57:21 --> 00:57:22 about sheep.
00:57:22 --> 00:57:23 I'm still,
00:57:23 --> 00:57:24 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: still learning on everything and
00:57:24 --> 00:57:26 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: yeah, absolutely.
00:57:26 --> 00:57:26 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: there.
00:57:27 --> 00:57:29 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Well, it's like, it's like kung fu, right?
00:57:29 --> 00:57:30 You,
00:57:30 --> 00:57:32 you always can get better
00:57:32 --> 00:57:34 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, the more you know, the more you don't know.
00:57:34 --> 00:57:35 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Exactly.
00:57:35 --> 00:57:36 Exactly.
00:57:36 --> 00:57:41 And I think people who can get into that state of, you know, well, one thing we
00:57:41 --> 00:57:43 do is that we do lunch with our interns
00:57:44 --> 00:57:45 Monday through Friday.
00:57:45 --> 00:57:45 We provide lunch.
00:57:45 --> 00:57:49 We sit down and I'm like, look, I'm available here for a whole hour.
00:57:49 --> 00:57:51 Get rid of your cell phones.
00:57:51 --> 00:57:52 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yeah, right first.
00:57:53 --> 00:57:53 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: I'm right here.
00:57:54 --> 00:57:56 And sometimes people take advantage of that.
00:57:56 --> 00:57:59 And sometimes that's some of the best learning goes on there because you know,
00:57:59 --> 00:58:05 I, I can be an academic and I love a lot of that, but when it's not in the context
00:58:05 --> 00:58:09 of, you know, here's an environment, you go out and you work with your hands and
00:58:09 --> 00:58:15 you do stuff, and then you have a question it's in this context of actually doing the
00:58:15 --> 00:58:17 whole thing, then you can learn the art.
00:58:17 --> 00:58:18 Right?
00:58:18 --> 00:58:20 And they can get, at first they get really frustrated in my answers because
00:58:20 --> 00:58:23 it's always, I've always got a caveat and
00:58:23 --> 00:58:27 a prelude and this and it depends and all this, right?
00:58:27 --> 00:58:31 But they slowly learn and they start, okay, here are some of the, here's
00:58:31 --> 00:58:34 the things that were important, here's the principles, whatever.
00:58:34 --> 00:58:38 And so I really think that a lot of what you do, and I think this is what
00:58:38 --> 00:58:42 agriculture, we need to get in touch, it changes the way your synapses
00:58:42 --> 00:58:44 work, changes the way you think.
00:58:45 --> 00:58:45 And.
00:58:46 --> 00:58:51 And you start thinking things less like individual nouns that have, you know,
00:58:51 --> 00:58:57 properties of red and, you know, and weighs this much, but what's it doing?
00:58:58 --> 00:58:59 How is it interacting?
00:58:59 --> 00:59:00 Right?
00:59:00 --> 00:59:03 So, Oh, well, we just had this over here.
00:59:03 --> 00:59:05 So now would it be good to have this here?
00:59:05 --> 00:59:10 You know, like the verbiness of it, you know, what, what they're doing,
00:59:10 --> 00:59:15 how they're interacting, that becomes actually more important than, you know,
00:59:15 --> 00:59:17 All their physical traits, so to speak,
00:59:17 --> 00:59:18 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, yeah.
00:59:19 --> 00:59:20 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: really affecting the way they think.
00:59:20 --> 00:59:24 And then if you can take that mentality, that's actually going to
00:59:24 --> 00:59:27 be a powerful tool when you start.
00:59:28 --> 00:59:32 Yourself and I don't think people I think they underestimate that because I know
00:59:32 --> 00:59:37 plenty of people who I I went to Salton You know and I learned all this stuff
00:59:37 --> 00:59:41 and now I start and they don't last, you know And they they're not making good
00:59:41 --> 00:59:45 judgment calls and and sometimes that's just is it's a hard thing to succeed at
00:59:45 --> 00:59:49 Sometimes it just life hits you and you can't necessarily blame the person But
00:59:49 --> 00:59:53 sometimes it's just they haven't made good judgment calls because they've jumped in
00:59:53 --> 00:59:55 too quick thought they knew everything
00:59:55 --> 00:59:56 they thought they were black belt already,
00:59:56 --> 00:59:57 you know, and
00:59:57 --> 00:59:57 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: yeah.
00:59:58 --> 00:59:58 right.
01:00:00 --> 01:00:05 I my wife says I jump in the deep end too often, so I completely understand.
01:00:06 --> 01:00:09 It's time for us to transition to the famous four questions
01:00:09 --> 01:00:12 sponsored by Kencove Farm Fence.
01:00:12 --> 01:00:15 Cal: Kencove Farm Fence is a proud supporter of the Grazing Grass
01:00:15 --> 01:00:17 podcast and graziers everywhere.
01:00:18 --> 01:00:22 At Kencove Farm Fence, they believe there's true value within the community
01:00:22 --> 01:00:24 of graziers and land stewards.
01:00:24 --> 01:00:27 The results that follow proper management and monitoring can
01:00:27 --> 01:00:29 change the very world around us.
01:00:30 --> 01:00:34 That's why Kencove is dedicated to providing an ever expanding line of
01:00:34 --> 01:00:37 grazing products to make your chores easier and your land more abundant.
01:00:38 --> 01:00:41 Whether you're growing your own food on the homestead or grazing
01:00:41 --> 01:00:46 on thousands of acres, Kencove has everything you need to do it well.
01:00:47 --> 01:00:51 From reels to tumblewheels, polytwine to electric nets, water valves to
01:00:51 --> 01:00:55 water troughs, you'll find what you're looking for at Kencove.
01:00:56 --> 01:00:59 They carry brands like Speedrite, O'Brien's, Kiwitech,
01:00:59 --> 01:01:01 Strainrite, Jobe, and more.
01:01:02 --> 01:01:05 Kencove is proud to be part of your regenerative journey.
01:01:05 --> 01:01:08 Call them today or visit Kencove.com.
01:01:08 --> 01:01:14 And be sure to follow them on social media and subscribe to the Kencove YouTube
01:01:14 --> 01:01:20 channel @KencoveFarmFence for helpful how to videos and new product releases!
01:01:20 --> 01:01:22 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: They're the same four questions
01:01:22 --> 01:01:23 we ask of all of our guests.
01:01:23 --> 01:01:29 Our first question, what's your favorite grazing grass related book or resource?
01:01:30 --> 01:01:33 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Yeah I thought about like, you know,
01:01:33 --> 01:01:36 oh, here are books, but actually I've read some books and they've been great.
01:01:36 --> 01:01:40 You know, I read Jim Gerrish, I read Joel Stalton, I've read some others,
01:01:40 --> 01:01:42 and I haven't gone back to them.
01:01:42 --> 01:01:43 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh yeah.
01:01:43 --> 01:01:44 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Right?
01:01:44 --> 01:01:48 I mean, they were great, but right now there's so many like YouTubes,
01:01:48 --> 01:01:50 and there's Stockman Grass Farmer,
01:01:50 --> 01:01:50 and there's YouTube.
01:01:50 --> 01:01:56 Podcasts and like, I'm getting more out of all that and in keeping up and
01:01:56 --> 01:02:00 then like going to this like event with Alan Williams, that was probably one of
01:02:00 --> 01:02:04 the most valuable time I've spent the whole day and we were all at different
01:02:04 --> 01:02:09 levels of Kung Fu, so to speak, my wife and I are interns that have been
01:02:09 --> 01:02:10 some have been there a couple of years.
01:02:10 --> 01:02:13 Some of them in there like, you know, a month and some have
01:02:13 --> 01:02:15 been all got stuff out of it.
01:02:15 --> 01:02:16 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, Yeah,
01:02:16 --> 01:02:17 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: People like that.
01:02:17 --> 01:02:22 And we were, we did the first couple hours like a lecture and then this
01:02:23 --> 01:02:25 after lunch, we went out for three hours in the pasture and that,
01:02:26 --> 01:02:26 that I
01:02:26 --> 01:02:26 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh,
01:02:26 --> 01:02:27 perfect.
01:02:27 --> 01:02:28 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: is the most valuable.
01:02:30 --> 01:02:33 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Yeah, well, you go, go out in the pasture with
01:02:33 --> 01:02:37 him and I've not done this, but I've been out in the pasture with Jim
01:02:37 --> 01:02:43 Gerrish and just the amount of, of knowledge they drop on you is amazing.
01:02:43 --> 01:02:44 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Yes, I've been with Jim
01:02:44 --> 01:02:46 Gerrish out on a sheep one.
01:02:46 --> 01:02:46 Yeah,
01:02:46 --> 01:02:47 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Yeah.
01:02:47 --> 01:02:47 Yeah.
01:02:47 --> 01:02:50 So very good advice or very good resources there.
01:02:51 --> 01:02:54 Our second question, what is your favorite tool for the farm?
01:02:54 --> 01:02:54 Yeah.
01:02:56 --> 01:02:58 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: I'm going to go with the old electric netting.
01:02:59 --> 01:03:01 Because we use it for everything.
01:03:01 --> 01:03:04 It gives me the flexibility, and I know some people absolutely hate it.
01:03:05 --> 01:03:06 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: I'm not a fan.
01:03:06 --> 01:03:06 I'll tell you
01:03:06 --> 01:03:07 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: I love
01:03:07 --> 01:03:07 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: just a second.
01:03:09 --> 01:03:12 I'm not a fan because I have too many thorn trees, and they
01:03:12 --> 01:03:14 just reach out and grab it.
01:03:14 --> 01:03:18 Now, if I'm not around the thorn trees, it works great,
01:03:19 --> 01:03:22 but those thorn trees just give me fits when I'm trying to move it or
01:03:22 --> 01:03:24 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: You need some, you need some hogs.
01:03:25 --> 01:03:28 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Yeah, well, you know, My wife tells me
01:03:28 --> 01:03:30 I've got enough irons in the fire.
01:03:31 --> 01:03:35 I, I really would like to get some hogs and, and mess with them some.
01:03:36 --> 01:03:39 Just something on the electric netting and moving your hogs each day.
01:03:39 --> 01:03:43 How many sections of electric netting are you using to, to make
01:03:43 --> 01:03:45 a pen for your hogs for that day?
01:03:46 --> 01:03:47 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: So, if we have a group, I tell
01:03:47 --> 01:03:49 people to have seven fences for it.
01:03:50 --> 01:03:54 Because everything we do is we do corridors, right?
01:03:54 --> 01:03:55 So we have like a corridor and they're going down.
01:03:56 --> 01:03:58 And you might use four fences for that.
01:03:58 --> 01:03:58 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh,
01:03:59 --> 01:04:00 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: And then you have a back fence,
01:04:01 --> 01:04:02 a front fence.
01:04:02 --> 01:04:04 And then you have the next days,
01:04:04 --> 01:04:05 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh,
01:04:05 --> 01:04:05 very
01:04:05 --> 01:04:05 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: next move.
01:04:06 --> 01:04:09 And so, seven is the bare minimum.
01:04:09 --> 01:04:13 And then you can just, you pick up one fence, and you set up the next days.
01:04:13 --> 01:04:13 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Yeah.
01:04:14 --> 01:04:17 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: And then, twice a week, we're moving the back
01:04:17 --> 01:04:18 fence, and the houses and everything.
01:04:18 --> 01:04:24 And so you just, you open it up, you pull them up, they're all eating grass, and
01:04:24 --> 01:04:28 then you pick, you know, you can put your back fence, and then so, I, you know,
01:04:28 --> 01:04:32 I say seven, you could do it with, you know, With five, but I think with the
01:04:32 --> 01:04:36 corridors you kind of need I put, you know, two on one side, two on the other
01:04:36 --> 01:04:36 side.
01:04:36 --> 01:04:38 That way, you know, you can have a little overlap.
01:04:39 --> 01:04:41 And so yeah, it can be very, very simple.
01:04:41 --> 01:04:44 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: And I really like the way you're describing that.
01:04:44 --> 01:04:49 You can go back to early episode like three or four with Edgefield Farm, and
01:04:49 --> 01:04:53 he talks about putting up corridors for his sheep and grazing them.
01:04:54 --> 01:04:56 And this is where I talk about with the podcast.
01:04:56 --> 01:04:59 We want people to take that next step, whatever that next step is.
01:05:00 --> 01:05:04 And they may have to hear something a hundred times before it clicks for them.
01:05:04 --> 01:05:09 I've heard about corridors and I just have never done it with my, my goats.
01:05:09 --> 01:05:14 I have four four nets and I set them up, but then it's a hassle because
01:05:14 --> 01:05:17 then I have to make a smaller pen.
01:05:17 --> 01:05:18 I make it and then I move them all.
01:05:19 --> 01:05:22 But you know, yeah, yeah.
01:05:22 --> 01:05:23 I don't know why.
01:05:24 --> 01:05:25 It just took me longer on that.
01:05:25 --> 01:05:29 And like I said, a very early episode and it's been covered other times, but
01:05:29 --> 01:05:31 this time it spoke to me differently.
01:05:32 --> 01:05:32 Yeah.
01:05:32 --> 01:05:33 My wife will be so happy.
01:05:33 --> 01:05:34 You're going to buy what now?
01:05:34 --> 01:05:38 I just need a few more, but I really do.
01:05:38 --> 01:05:38 So thank
01:05:38 --> 01:05:40 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: And I learned the hard way.
01:05:41 --> 01:05:45 Man, I was moving hens by the stupidest ways, right?
01:05:45 --> 01:05:46 Oh, let's make an area for them.
01:05:47 --> 01:05:48 Let's try to herd hens.
01:05:49 --> 01:05:52 And then we would take a fence and we would all hold with all the kids and
01:05:52 --> 01:05:54 we would like drag the fence along.
01:05:54 --> 01:05:57 And man, like now I can do it one person.
01:05:57 --> 01:05:58 It's just some of those things.
01:05:58 --> 01:05:59 Yeah, those are all.
01:06:00 --> 01:06:02 All good things, but you would learn that at a farm if you went there or
01:06:02 --> 01:06:03 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: yeah.
01:06:04 --> 01:06:07 Our, our third question, we kind of answered it somewhat.
01:06:07 --> 01:06:10 We took a little different take on it earlier in the overgrazing
01:06:10 --> 01:06:14 section, but what would you tell someone just getting started
01:06:15 --> 01:06:19 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Yeah, well, first, it is super hard.
01:06:19 --> 01:06:22 Like, no, you are, you have a mountain to climb, especially if you
01:06:22 --> 01:06:24 don't have family land or whatnot.
01:06:25 --> 01:06:29 But my thing has always been, it doesn't take the capital
01:06:29 --> 01:06:30 that you might think it does.
01:06:31 --> 01:06:35 You really can do things and, you know, part of it is my upbringing too.
01:06:35 --> 01:06:39 We, we, we made silk purses out of sow's ears all the time.
01:06:39 --> 01:06:44 So, there's amazing amount that you can do without all the toys and the fancy stuff.
01:06:44 --> 01:06:46 So that's probably be my biggest advice.
01:06:48 --> 01:06:51 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: and just say to add on to that?
01:06:51 --> 01:06:52 It's so easy.
01:06:53 --> 01:06:56 And, and I really fall into this trap when I'm wanting to do something new.
01:06:56 --> 01:06:58 I think, well, I've got to have all this to do it.
01:06:58 --> 01:07:00 You don't have to have all that.
01:07:00 --> 01:07:04 Quit, quit looking at other people where they are on their
01:07:04 --> 01:07:06 journey and everything they have.
01:07:06 --> 01:07:07 You can get by with less.
01:07:07 --> 01:07:10 Just get what you barely need to get started.
01:07:10 --> 01:07:12 Get enough to get started.
01:07:12 --> 01:07:15 But, but get started and learn what works for you in your context.
01:07:17 --> 01:07:17 And
01:07:17 --> 01:07:18 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Start slow,
01:07:18 --> 01:07:19 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Start slow,
01:07:19 --> 01:07:19 Yeah.
01:07:20 --> 01:07:20 That's the
01:07:21 --> 01:07:22 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Don't get ahead of your learning curve.
01:07:23 --> 01:07:25 We always talk about getting ahead of our market.
01:07:25 --> 01:07:28 We always talk ahead about all, but don't get ahead of your learning curves.
01:07:28 --> 01:07:28 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: oh yeah.
01:07:29 --> 01:07:30 Good advice.
01:07:30 --> 01:07:31 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Get a mentor.
01:07:31 --> 01:07:32 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Yes.
01:07:33 --> 01:07:35 And lastly, where can others find out more about you?
01:07:36 --> 01:07:39 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Well, we are Weathertop Farm.
01:07:39 --> 01:07:40 It's just info at weathertopfarm.
01:07:41 --> 01:07:41 com.
01:07:42 --> 01:07:43 There is a tab on there.
01:07:43 --> 01:07:45 It's called Farmer Sledge.
01:07:45 --> 01:07:47 It's got Links to my writings.
01:07:48 --> 01:07:50 I do a podcast, but I say that with a lot of caveat.
01:07:51 --> 01:07:53 I, I'm very conceptual guy.
01:07:54 --> 01:07:55 I'm not like a how to guy.
01:07:56 --> 01:07:59 So when I do like the podcast, I'm, I don't do a whole lot of these,
01:07:59 --> 01:08:03 but like, the last one I did, I did three podcasts about scale.
01:08:03 --> 01:08:04 Right?
01:08:04 --> 01:08:07 So it's like, we always talk about, oh, can regenerative agriculture scale?
01:08:08 --> 01:08:11 And I'm oftentimes talking about how we think about things wrong.
01:08:11 --> 01:08:14 So I do, you know, and people are into conceptual stuff, they like it.
01:08:14 --> 01:08:17 Other people are just looking, you know, for some techniques.
01:08:17 --> 01:08:19 Absolutely hate it, because it's just me talking.
01:08:19 --> 01:08:20 It's not, it's not fancy at all.
01:08:21 --> 01:08:24 So then I also have writings that you can, on that farmer's sledge.
01:08:25 --> 01:08:26 And I've written a manuscript.
01:08:26 --> 01:08:28 I'm trying to get it published.
01:08:29 --> 01:08:30 I was talking with Chelsea Green for a bit.
01:08:30 --> 01:08:35 They stopped communicating with me, but Alan Williams was interested.
01:08:35 --> 01:08:37 So, he's taking a look at it.
01:08:37 --> 01:08:38 We'll see.
01:08:38 --> 01:08:40 But it's very much about like, how we think and everything.
01:08:40 --> 01:08:43 So maybe eventually, if you ask me that question.
01:08:44 --> 01:08:47 In a few months, I might be able to say, you could read my
01:08:47 --> 01:08:48 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh yes.
01:08:48 --> 01:08:48 Yeah.
01:08:48 --> 01:08:49 We'll be looking forward to that.
01:08:51 --> 01:08:53 And we will put links in our show notes for that.
01:08:54 --> 01:08:56 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: Oh, I do have an Instagram account,
01:08:56 --> 01:08:57 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Oh, okay.
01:08:57 --> 01:08:59 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: farmer sledge, which I've
01:08:59 --> 01:09:00 really have not done much.
01:09:00 --> 01:09:05 I've been really focusing on writing, but maybe I'll get back into that as well.
01:09:05 --> 01:09:05 So
01:09:06 --> 01:09:09 cal_1_10-25-2024_090906: Well, we appreciate you coming on
01:09:09 --> 01:09:10 and sharing with us today.
01:09:10 --> 01:09:12 Really enjoyed the conversation.
01:09:12 --> 01:09:12 cedric-shannon_1_10-25-2024_100906: was fun.
01:09:13 --> 01:09:13 It's fun.
01:09:13 --> 01:09:14 Thanks, man.
01:09:15 --> 01:09:17 Cal: I really hope you enjoyed today's conversation.
01:09:18 --> 01:09:19 I know I did.
01:09:20 --> 01:09:25 Thank you for listening, and if you found something useful, please share it.
01:09:25 --> 01:09:27 Share it on your social media.
01:09:27 --> 01:09:28 Tell your friends.
01:09:28 --> 01:09:30 Get the word out about the podcast.
01:09:31 --> 01:09:32 Helps us grow.
01:09:32 --> 01:09:36 If you happen to be a grass farmer and you'd like to share about
01:09:36 --> 01:09:39 your journey, go to grazinggrass.
01:09:39 --> 01:09:43 com and click on Be Our Guest.
01:09:43 --> 01:09:46 Fill out the form and I'll be in touch.
01:09:46 --> 01:09:50 We appreciate your support by sharing our episodes and
01:09:50 --> 01:09:52 telling your friends about it.
01:09:52 --> 01:09:55 You can also support our show by buying our merch.
01:09:55 --> 01:09:57 We get a little bit back from that.
01:09:58 --> 01:10:02 Another way to support the show is by becoming a grazing grass insider.
01:10:03 --> 01:10:04 Grazing Grass Insiders
01:10:04 --> 01:10:08 enjoy bonus content, monthly zooms and discounts.
01:10:09 --> 01:10:12 You can visit the website grazing grass.com.
01:10:13 --> 01:10:16 Click on support and they'll have the links there.
01:10:17 --> 01:10:19 Also, if you haven't left us a review, please do.
01:10:20 --> 01:10:23 It really helps us as people are searching for podcasts.
01:10:23 --> 01:10:29 And I was just checking them and we do not have very many reviews for 2024.
01:10:29 --> 01:10:32 So if you haven't left us a review, please do.
01:10:33 --> 01:10:36 And until next time, keep on grazing grass.
Related Episodes
e147. Cattle on Small Acreage with Janelle Anderson
What if small-scale farming could be both sustainable and profitable? Join us as Janelle Anderson from The Haven Farmstead in Southern Middle Tennessee shares her inspiring journey from Wisconsin to Tennessee's rolling landscapes. Janelle opens up about her experiences on a cow-calf operation near ...
e144. Revving Up Agritourism: Merging Land, Life, and Leisure with Taylor Moyer
Join us on an exciting journey as we welcome back Taylor Moyer, who has transitioned from a successful NASCAR career to full-time farming. Over the past 18 months, Taylor has embraced the challenges and rewards of regenerative farming, leaving the racetrack after the last race in Phoenix to pursue ...
e142. Prescribed Conservation Grazing with Jake Yancey
Unlock the secrets of successful cattle farming in wet climates with Jake Yancey from the Tracking Y Ranch in Western Washington. Join us for an inspiring exploration of Jake's journey as a first-generation rancher, overcoming the challenges of heavy rainfall to expand his operations across a thous...