e142. Prescribed Conservation Grazing with Jake Yancey

Transcript generated by Podium.page Help us spread the word by tweeting about us at @podiumdotpage and including us in your shownotes! https://podium.page NOTE: There were 2 speakers identified in this transcript. Speaker separation errors can arise when multiple speakers speak simultaneously. 0:00:01 - Cal Welcome to the Grazing Grass Podcast, Episode 142. 0:00:06 - Jake I tell folks, take photos and tell your story. 0:00:10 - Cal You're listening to the Grazing Grass Podcast, sharing information and stories of grass-based livestock production utilizing regenerative practices. I'm your host, cal Hartage. You're growing more than grass. Cal Hartage, you're growing more than grass You're growing a healthier ecosystem to help your cattle thrive in their environment. You're growing your livelihood by increasing your carrying capacity and reducing your operating costs. You're growing stronger communities and a legacy to last generations. The grazing management decisions you make today impact everything from the soil beneath your feet to the community all around you. That's why the Noble Research Institute created their Essentials of Regenerative Grazing course to teach ranchers like you easy-to-follow techniques to quickly assess your forage, production and infrastructure capacity in order to begin grazing more efficiently. Together, they can help you grow not only a healthier operation, but a legacy that lasts. Learn more on their website at nobleorg slash grazing. It's n-o-b-l-eorg. Forward slash grazing. On today's show we have Jake Yancey. Jake and his family operate Tracking Y Ranch in Western Washington. They're a first-generation ranching family. They operate cow and calf to finish operation and sell direct to consumers. Tracking Y Ranch operates on leased properties across the four-county area, with two-thirds of the properties owned by conservation groups or and or under conservation easements, which makes for a very interesting discussion about leasing land and coming up with your plan to how to use it. Jake likes to call it prescribed conservation grazing Really good episode, I think you will enjoy it. 10 seconds about the farm. We have received almost nine inches of rain over the last week, since last week when I told you we were dry but rain was expected. So things are a little bit wetter today and we have rain coming in later. By the time you hear this, I think the rain's going to be out of this area, but those people to the east in Missouri may be getting a ton. 10 seconds about the podcast. Well, last week I suggested you join the grazing grass community and we had one individual join it, but he called me out on it. Stacy joined it and he put on his question to join the community. It asked what motivated you to join. Question to join the community. It asks what motivated you to join. And that's really just so we can keep scammers out of there and know people have real intentions. Well, stacey put cause. Cal keeps telling me to every week on the podcast. So yes, stacey, you're right. I will work on asking you all to do something differently. But, stacy, I appreciate you joining the grazing grass community and I hope it's a value to you. Let's go ahead and talk to Jake. Jake, we want to welcome you to the grazing grass podcast. We're excited you're here today. 0:03:37 - Jake Hey, cal, same to you. Thanks for having us on and we truly appreciate the opportunity to speak with you. 0:03:43 - Cal Wonderful Jake. To get started, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your operation? 0:03:50 - Jake Yeah. So myself wouldn't be included if I didn't talk about my family. I have a wonderful wife and twin daughters that are a huge part of our operation. I went to grew up in Eastern Washington we get about 10 inches of rain over there Grew up in Wheatland and a lot of rangeland grazing operations over there, subsequently ended up moving over to Western Washington later on in life and got out of any sort of ranching or anything else. I went to school for some ag business for a short period of time, kind of worked and managed ranches for about five years. In 2015, after working regular jobs, we were given the opportunity to pick up a cow-calf herd. One of our friends' family farm had been sold for development and so with 30 days notice, he gave us a call and said hey, are you interested in getting our cow-calf herd? And so, like every Western Washington farmer wants to do the best time to jump into cattle is in November in Western Washington, when we get between 70 and 110 inches of rain. And I always say my wife has made probably two goofy decisions in life. The first was probably marrying me and the second was trusting us. And so in 2015, she said hey, I trust that we'll be able to make this work. And so in 2015, we picked up that cow a small cow calf herd, brought it to our little five acres. And so in 2015, we picked up that cow a small cow calf herd, brought it to our little five acres and my wife said, hey, how the heck are we going to make this work? And so we knocked on a bunch of doors and fast forward to today. We managed just over a thousand acres of grazing ground in a four county area and our cow herd has grown exponentially. We sell. A hundred percent of our cattle are marketed direct to consumer. We do a cow-calf to finish program and we offer both grass-fed grass finished and grass-fed grain finished. And by meaning that all of our cattle always stay on pasture, they never go to a feedlot confinement or anything else. So that's where our grass-fed part of it kind of comes in. 0:05:42 - Cal Oh, that's. That's very interesting. Just from my notes, I got all kinds of questions already. Jake, First, first off, just for clarification, you're in Western Washington now, and what kind of rainfall do you get out there yearly? 0:05:57 - Jake Well, we, it's a goofy rain pattern, our our dry season. Well, we're coming in right now, we're coming up on November, so about October rain season starts and rain season will end up. Going all the way from about October and seasons have been drying out and so now it's ending about May, maybe June, and during that period of time, depending on what county we're in of our four-county area, we can range anywhere between about 60, 70 to about 110 inches of rain a year. The problem is that we suffer in Western Washington is once that spigot shuts off in May, june at the best, we really get no rain the whole rest of the season. So you'll go four or five months with not a drop of rain. We call it our grass rains, anything that counts. 0:06:41 - Cal So we kind of drought out during the summer, anything that counts, so we kind of drought out during the summer. Oh yes, that's, that's very interesting. I've talked to to farmers, ranchers in Eastern Washington and I talked to um Ben I was trying to think of his name Ben, that's on Prince Albert Island, vancouver Island, vancouver Island, I believe so he's north of you a ways, but he's right there on that west coast as well, believe so. he's north of U of A's but he's right there on that west coast as well. That's in that environment. That gives you a lot of potential with that rain, but at the same time it shuts off, like you said, and you've got a few months there that it's dry and you've got to plan for. So very interesting. I'm excited to learn more about your operation and see how it goes. So growing up, did you know you always? 0:07:33 - Jake wanted to ranch or have cattle. Livestock Farming was in my blood and stuff that was truly our love. We grew up in a little town that we grew up in. There's a sheep operation behind it and the older rancher that was there we used to spend respectfully. We used to spend the mornings and stuff going out and lifting sheep up and he got to the point in his age where he just wasn't able to maintain the sheep, herd and shear them and everything else and our family took over kind of the lead on that process and set up yearling shearings. And so I remember as a kid climbing in wool bags, stuffing wool or working in the wheat fields roguing and pulling rye grass and stuff out of them. So it's always been my love, it's been my passion that that that's interesting. 0:08:11 - Cal I have to say that is quite the contrast to my sheep experience as a kid. We had, obviously we had beef cattle and we had some goats that we pinned up in the chicken yard each night and we'd just turn them out and they'd go out on the pasture. And then dad bought three sheep or three ewes and one buck, so four I should be able to do three plus one math and we had a neighbor dog get in there and he didn't kill him, but he caused their death. They just gave up, didn't kill him, but he caused their death. They just gave up. It was. It was really traumatizing to a young kid for that to happen. Then, a few years later, my dad and one of his friends decided to get some sheep and they actually kept it at my friend's, or my dad's friend's place and I remember going over there and seeing that and that was pretty short lived. So our sheep experience when I was a kid was not all that favorable nope, they're definitely a different animal. Oh, oh, they are. They are now. I've got too many of them so I don't know. I keep trying to get more so so you had experience with sheep, and then to college, you decided to go, yeah. 0:09:24 - Jake So worked a bunch of cattle operations starting about my sophomore year, me and a fellow rancher that really kind of took me under his wing and we've kind of started a stalker program and so we had a property in Western Washington that we were able to secure and we ended up buying spring cattle and then we'd keep them on grass and then market them in the fall, and so we did that kind of all throughout college and then I would end up working different operations building fence and they were all cattle based operations. That's kind of the standard over here and so did that. I've worked now in Montana, northern Oregon, washington state, both sides of the state and then even worked. The last operation was a guest ranch operation that I ranched prior to getting a full-time job, so, and then ultimately getting into the back, into cattle. 0:10:11 - Cal So one question there, that that I get from a lot of people and, just in transparency, I went to school for ag and then I changed paths a little bit later, but I have an animal science degree. Why did you choose to go to school and an ag degree rather than just go ahead and start working on ranches or or managing cattle? 0:10:33 - Jake Well, cal, I was blessed. I was super active with the Future Farmers of America at the time. We just transitioned over to the FFA National FFA organization. I was active, I was a state FFA president my senior year in high school and so that opportunity gave me the great opportunity. I had a one-year scholarship to Washington State University oh nice when I ended up studying Go Cougs. And then I made the decision at that point everybody's got a different path. I kind of refused to take out college loans and everything else. I ended up working that summer at an operation here on Western Washington and then came back the next year and I knew if I got out of college at that point it was going to be hard to restart. And my dad always taught me that hey, get a degree or get education that you can use even if the Great Depression comes around. And I'd already been shoeing horses since about the age of 12. And I said you know what? I'm going to get myself a piece of paper and I'm going to go to farrier school. And so I came back to Walla Walla Community College. I enrolled in the farrier program, being a horseshoer. I ended up doing that and I do that in the morning I'd come to school. We'd start at seven o'clock and I do that till one o'clock. And then I take night classes after my first quarter and I do that till 10 o'clock each night, trying to work on that two year degree. After that, second year once again went back to work in ranches and operations and I decided to make the choice. It was just the route that I chose. There's no good, no bad way. It's just the route that I chose. I didn't want to take out any loans or anything else, and so I ended up getting a full-time job and going that route instead of continuing my college education. I don't have a four-year degree, as a matter of fact, I don't even have a two-year degree, but I have two years of great education and I have a bunch of time spent behind a shovel and building and working cattle and livestock. So we all learn different routes in life? 0:12:19 - Cal Oh, we do, we do, and you know I come at it. I was raised. My dad was very adamant I get a degree and I can remember going to college and one set of grandparents was very pro-education, very much. You got to get your degree and my dad and mom was like you got to go get your degree. My other set of grandparents was like you're going into animal science, just come home and work on the farm, don't worry about spending that money. So it's a tough call for whatever you're choosing and I love your path there. You decided to get something that can make you some money. While you went through school you had a diverse range of experiences farrowing horses, doing cow calf ranching and sheep earlier, and then in 2015 you had that opportunity to buy some cows. I assume at that point you and your wife had already broadened the subject. 0:13:17 - Jake It wasn't a brand new subject yeah, she always knew where my love and my passion was. The downfall is we all get kind of different investments that folks make for us and unfortunately and that's kind of how I describe it I didn't have a family that passed on stuff or anything else. As far as our ranching operation, rather, the wife and I both work full time and we still do today With that. That's been our investment strategy. Sometimes with families, they invest in their children and everything else and they've made those choices throughout generations and they're able to pass down those ranches and those operations and sometimes just the simple things, that just simply those tools that we end up building up with time and everything else, and our investment has solely been one that we've made. And, once again, just like educational opportunities, there is no right and wrong way. There's just different ways of doing that process, and so the wife knew that that was always kind of my dream and that if the opportunity ever presented itself, my hope was to go that direction. 0:14:20 - Cal So the opportunity presents itself and I think you said you purchased them and brought them back to five acres. Yeah, what, what, what was your, your thought pattern then and the reason I asked Jake, you know, for a lot of times, but early in my career, I get that chicken and egg issue. Which comes first. Do I buy the livestock first? Do I find land to lease or buy land to lease? Do I buy the livestock first? Do I find land to lease or buy land to lease? And if I find some land to lease and I don't have livestock, what good is the land? But I can't buy livestock if I don't have land available, so walk us through that decision, because that's a little interesting. 0:15:04 - Jake To bring someone to just five acres yeah, it's completely crazy is, frankly, how it is Cal, and I think it kind of speaks to how grazing operations in Western Washington work. We're not able to stockpile forage and that's one of the differences. 0:15:15 - Cal Over here, we just get too much rain, because we're wet. 0:15:18 - Jake Yeah, and our winters aren't cold enough. 0:15:21 - Cal Oh okay. 0:15:22 - Jake So we hover often our winters and stuff hover in that 40 degree range, that 50 degree throughout most of winter. We'll get some cold days that will drop into the teens and everything, but for the most part we're just hovering above freezing and so that leaves any stockpiled forage that you end up having molding on the stem. With that in mind, you have to have some sort of pasture based or confinement style feeding style feeding come winter time, otherwise you just tear up the soils too much like I said, that's 60 70 inches of rain falls during those six months of winter, and so you will just destroy a field pretty quickly and so you have to make decisions. I understood those production curves and kind of where timing was and everything else, and I understood I had a one season that I'd be able to bring that cow calf herd back to our small acres, move some horses around, and we were going to make it work. You're completely right, it's, it's hard. Do you? Do you go, take the DGL, get everything in line before and then do you go that way, or do you take a leap of faith and right We've been. We had a lot of infrastructure, some of it in place, we run a, we have horses and everything else, and so we had trailers, we had trucks, we had panels, we had the basics of that, and from my years in ranching I had a lot of the tools and supplies to do a lot of it. As far as the land probably the most important one we didn't have that, but my wife had faith in me and everything else and, living in Western Washington, we're losing lots and lots of our ag ground now to development and so we see lots of maintenance issues and stuff as property owners make that decision that they want the rural lifestyle, but unfortunately sometimes they're balanced and the maintenance needs that those type of purchases and such require, and so we kind of joke. I'm kind of the Jehovah Witness of cattlemen and so what I did is that basically, first day, once we brought the cattle home, I started knocking on doors and it's like hey, do you believe in? Grass fed beef? For lack of better, and that wasn't the line by any means. For lack of better, and that wasn't the line by any means. But I went and talked to these property owners and I said, hey, every year you're spending a couple thousand dollars to have a guy come out and brush hog this property. Every year I'm watching your fences become more and more deteriorated. Every year I'm seeing more and more invasives growing on your property. What if you allow us to come in, run our cattle? We'll maintain all of those things. You'll be able to enjoy all the perks of the agricultural lifestyle and everything. We'll maintain those fences, we'll do all that upkeep that unfortunately it costs, and everything else, and in exchange you allow us to have our cattle on your properties. That first year we picked up just over a couple of hundred acres. And I guess it continues to bloom and grow. Two thirds of our property are really weird. Only a third of ours are privately owned Two thirds of ours are in conservation easements or owned by conservation groups, and so all of those two thirds have endangered species on them, and so we work very, very closely with our scientific and our property owner groups and stuff studying those effects of grazing on those species. So it's been an interesting relationship, how closely we work with that scientific community. 0:18:33 - Cal Oh, very good, and we're going to get a little deeper into that a little bit later. When you went and started knocking on doors, did you find people receptive, or did you get a lot of people like, no, it's not for us. How did that go for you? 0:18:52 - Jake yeah, I think the number one question is everybody had heard nightmares of cattle getting out and everything. I mean that's the number number one concern is hey, we used to have cows here, they got out all the time. How's that going to work? I was blessed, spent about six months, almost a year, building high tensile electric fence New Zealand style, and so I'd done that commercially and truly believed in it, and so most of the fences that we built on our property and such were along those styles, when we were huge believers in the power of electric fence, not only from the pain, compliance issue and stuff, but just the psychological. The cattle just respect it. And so when we told property owners hey, the number one thing that we're going to do is we're going to go in and immediately we're going to install at least a single strand of electric fence around your property to keep those cows in, and they will stay. The other part of that is we provide all of our property owners with a packet that has all of our phone numbers that you can get hold of us anytime, and the main thing is that we carry an insurance policy as well, granted that we never want to use it, and that kind of put property owners at a lot of ease and kind of soften that blow. 0:20:04 - Cal Oh yeah, I think a few things there you said really will help them and calm those fears. Did they beyond those fears? Did they have anything else or any other concerns write off, or was that really the main ones? 0:20:19 - Jake No, I think the other thing that everybody's always interested in is the what is what's in it for me type thing, and so, unlike some parts of agriculture, we share our economics, we're an open book, and so we make it very, very clear that, hey, yeah, we're grazing your property, but here's all the costs of production that we have. And on the flip side, we tell our property owners all them improvements and the benefits that they're going to get, so much so that, just like I mentioned earlier, with just the brush hogging, hey, you're going to be able to save that every year. We're going to assume those costs. We're going to do that with my landscapers being my cows out there providing those services. Furthermore, once a year we provide our property owners with a breakdown. That kind of breaks down all the improvements that we've done on their property and being really open and transparent with the economic benefits of property owners, allowing us onto their ground really really helps to kind of bridge that gap. 0:21:14 - Cal Are you leasing land all per acre or per animal unit days, or is there some kind of profit sharing? What are you using for their monetary model? 0:21:28 - Jake So we do it solely based on improvements for the property. So, so we do it solely based on improvements for the property. We tell folks you just look at what the cost is to brush, hog a property or spray or rebuild fence or anything else. We also talk to the property owners. Each of them kind of has. We're very transparent and open with them as far as hey, what's your goals with the property? Oh yeah, and unfortunately sometimes that may be hey, in five years we're going to be developed in this property. 0:21:54 - Cal You don't have. 0:21:55 - Jake We don't have to like it or anything, but those are. That's part of that open story that we end up having. Oh yeah, just the same. Some of the property owners have some. Some may call them lofty, but we also call them. It's a relationship as far as investments that they're wanting in their property. One of them we just did on one of our properties was we redecked about a 40 foot bridge on their property which gave them access not only to the other side of their property and allows them to travel it with their quad and UTV. But those are costs that we assume and we share those costs with that yearly breakdown. Telling them, hey, this is the financial costs that we're out to do this. With that yearly breakdown. Telling them, hey, this is the financial costs that we're out to do this, and then just sharing the openness of what those improvements on land is. It's astronomical. We tell folks we can run cattle and pay people per month, per day, per whatever that you want to break it down, but the costs of maintaining and keeping up a property are significant and in a million different ways. I think there's days when the wife and I wake up and we'd love the opportunity just to have someone else do that and just pay a monthly bill instead of doing all the maintenance and improvement projects. But those are real costs and our property owners see it so much so that every day that we go out to a property we'll send them a text message, just so they understand the amount of commitment that we're doing on their properties. 0:23:14 - Cal Oh, so that's a lot of communication, letting them know whenever you're out there. There's just the few things you listed that I wrote down here A lot of communication, yearly breakdown. I think that's great. You're building that relationship, which is so important, and, I'll be honest, I build that relationship. And I've got land that relationship which is so important and, I'll be honest, I build that relationship and I've got land lease. But I've got to do a better job of the back end or the follow-up after it's leased and making sure they're involved. So I really like that. You also mentioned you gave them a property owner's packet. What is a property owner's packet? A property owner's packet, what is a property? 0:23:52 - Jake owner's packet. So for lack of better, it's a three ring binder. The cover of that is a map of their property that lays out and we just pull it off Google Earth and draw out and we agree with the property owners that we have 365 day access to the properties. So if we want to come during the wet, rainy season and work on a fence project when we don't have livestock out there, because that's what works for our schedule or whatever, then that works. Obviously, if something comes up, we're completely willing to work with property owners, such as they've had weddings and such on properties that hey, we'd like you off the property for a couple of days while we set stuff up. The second page of that, right when you end up opening it, includes all of our emergency contacts. Those are phone numbers, emails, everything, and we always carry our cell phone. It's one of my main things I tell people is return a dang phone call, return a text. Take two seconds, even if it's hey, I'll get back to you. It means the world to folks when they can get hold of you oh yeah, I'll get back to you. It means the world to folks when they can get hold of you. Oh yeah, yeah. And then, as we go through that, the going into the next pages normally involves if the property owner wants a specific contract. We only have wordy contracts I describe them as on a couple of our properties, and then it includes a copy of that insurance policy so that they have a peace of mind that if something happens, that they have that there with them. 0:25:12 - Cal Oh, yes, yeah, Very good. I think that's a tremendous idea, jake, that I'm disappointed that I haven't been doing that. I just think that that's wonderful. You got started down this journey. When you started down this journey, were you thinking okay, we're going to do grass-fed grain-finished, grass-fed grass-finished direct-to-consumer and we're going to use Regen2 practices? 0:25:41 - Jake Yeah, cal, I knew that on a small scale that just selling cabs in the spring was not going to provide the revenue stream that we were going to need as a small operation and at the same time needing the revenue stream that's got to be higher on a price per unit basis, based on the fact that we're not operating off a home-based operation, that we drive out the back door every single day and get it. And so we break those type of, just those parts of the story. We break down to our property owners that every time I drive to your place at 62 cents or whatever my wife tells me the government's decided that the cost is each year, but those are real costs of production and so just a simple trip to a property owner's house and stuff may cost $10 in mileage. That's where tear on the trucks and trailers and everything else, and that's not even before we start looking at the costs of our time and figuring in what that calculation looks like. So we knew that the only route that was going to end up doing was a direct to consumer based operation, and then we offered both the grass finished as well as the grain finishes and op option. And for our market, where we're currently at and what our customers end up wanting is the grain finish. Part of it has been huge and at the same, time because of how our structure is and everything else, we have to stay on those pastures and move, which is good not only for the soils but requirements, and such that every sometimes three to five days at the very most those cattle are moving on to fresh grass. And even in our grain operation we use drag sled feeders. They're just wooden boat feeders for lack of better that we drag along the ground and so those cattle stay on that same pasture that they'd be on the grass stint program as well, all the way up till harvest. And so we knew that we had to figure out some way to get that revenue stream a little bit higher and we knew that that market strategy was going to be the way, the only way that I could figure out sitting and dreaming of what this was going to look like if I ever got the opportunity. 0:27:54 - Cal That's the only way I can see it working Right, and it sounds like you all have really done a great job with getting your numbers down and knowing your financial status and what you need to do. So very impressive there, jake, with your grass-fed finish versus grain finish. Yeah, I think I said that right. Let me try it again With your grass finish and your grain finish. You're finding consumers are preferring your grain finish. 0:28:22 - Jake Yeah, it's just we have a couple other producers that are nearby that offer only grass-finished, and so it's kind of been a way that our customers can make the decision kind of where they end up going. And it's worked out. We offer both and it's really easy for us in our operation because all of our cattle never get any grain until that last 60 to 90 days, and then at that point we can diverge those cattle depending on what their finishing needs are for that last stage up till harvest, and so we don't have a all the cattle stay on a grass-based diet solely all the way up till those, that last finishing stage. So it's really easy for us to make those production decisions. 0:29:02 - Cal And on that grain that they're getting that last 60 or 90 days. Are you doing any specialty there, like non-GMO or soy-free, or are you just using regular grain? Dr Richard Young Jr. Regular grain. 0:29:15 - Jake We have a local grain mill that's actually in Tacoma, which is now a very commercialized city, and there's a old 1900s mill that's still operating right in the downtown part of town that we buy from, and so it's family owned operation and so we're blessed to purchase from them. They they do mix and source some of their stuff locally, but other than that we run a pasture based operation solely, but none of our operation do we describe as anything special as far as organic or anything else? 0:29:46 - Cal Yeah, oh, very good. Now when you you talk about, you can finish them on grass, you can finish them on green 60 and 90 days. Are you finishing throughout the year or are you targeting one time for finishing a group of animals? 0:30:02 - Jake Yeah, so so we run three. It kind of talks to our grazing strategy. So we run three different groups of cattle. We don't run a mono herd and so we have our cow calf program that runs on one set of pastures. We have our stocker cattle. They're just there, are teenagers, as I describe them to the layman, and they are just getting older and they're normally our yearlings that are post weaning, and then we have our finishing cattle, and our finishing cattle always get on the best grass out of that whole group, and so it kind of goes the highest ends of our nutritional pasture qualities go with that finishing group all the way dependent on, regardless, sorry, of which group, that is, if it's the grain, it'll be the grain finish selection or the grass finish selection. And then the mother cows get the second best grasses. And then our stocker cattle they're just teenagers, they're just growing, and so we can use them as kind of our pasture maintenance and work on a bunch of our invasive management tools, using them as a grazing tool. 0:30:59 - Cal Oh yeah, about what age are you finishing your cattle? 0:31:04 - Jake Just over two years is kind of our marketing strategy and kind of our production goal. Our high end of our finishing is just about 30 months, but everything we're we shoot for 24 and then some ended up slipping a little bit longer to that 30 month period. 0:31:20 - Cal Are you take them in as groups to a processor? Do you have a the? You know, to me I always think the on the farm processor that comes out and will dispatch your animal and then take it to process is the holy grail that we don't have right here. How's that working? 0:31:39 - Jake for you. Yeah, those are great discussions. Cal In the butcher industry. One of the last operations I did was a butchering operation right here in western Washington that did a cow-calf operation and as well as had a butcher shop. Red cutters are something that is meat cutting and livestock term that's associated with meat cutting. Normally it's because the cattle are too stressed immediately prior to being slaughtered. Often that's a product of moving them around. It's sometimes stress from handling, sometimes even breed selection all play into those factors. There's a bunch of other things that can be argued as well, but with that a couple of things ended up changing in our operation. Our cattle are moving all the time, so our herds are loading into trailers every month and a half two months and they've done that their whole entire life, depending on as they move through some of those pastures, and so they understand that when a trailer shows up, as a general rule they cooperate and they understand oh yeah we're going to. We're going to fresh pasture, and so that is not an unexpected process, with which is is different than in summer operations, where the cattle may have never once in their life even been on a trailer. And so true stress is a production that they have to load up and go to harvest. We only do one harvest a year. By that I mean we only have one season that we end up harvest, and so that's the first weeks of November and we do that very timely with that, and we believe that that's what makes our product consistent for our consumers. Year after year Because our cattle don't eat any hay all the way up till the time of harvest they have gone a full grazing season of being on fresh pasture all the way up to the day that they are harvested. So they're not harvested in the middle of winter when we've been feeding two, three months of hay and haylage. Rather they come off of staying straight on pasture. Rather they come off of staying straight on pasture. They load into the trailers and then our harvest facility and and the kill process ends up happening direct at the two butchers that we end up doing. Oh, very good, we do only end up in our state, washington state. We have a washington state wsda I watch the state department of ag process and so we're only able to sell currently in halves, quarters and holes. We do not able to sell currently in halves, quarters and wholes. We do not use the USDA marketing model right now and or harvesting so that we cannot legally sell by the cuts, and so if someone wants to buy hamburger, 10 pounds of hamburger or such at this time, we're just not there right now. Our customer demand has been great for the halves, quarters and wholes and buying as shares they're sometimes referred to you, depending on the state. 0:34:13 - Cal Oh yeah, so you allude to it right there. It's not been a problem for customers. Do you have people coming to you wanting to buy the cut and then it becomes your job to educate them on how you can sell it to them, and then do they become a customer? 0:34:32 - Jake Yeah, cal, that's a great, great thing and there could be a whole separate series on just the complexities of that and, kind of nationwide, what I believe there's a great demand for Right now again products and healthy, locally raised products into the hands of consumers is a huge barrier, not only from a production standpoint but also just from a consumer health standpoint. We have huge metropolitan areas that are within 60 miles of us from Seattle, the largest city in our state. We got Tacoma, we got Olympia, we have Portland, all of those markets. They're huge and unfortunately, unfortunately, those folks, most of them don't have a large freezer at their place. Sometimes quarter beef takes up everything and as we described to folks, uh, you can fit a quarter beef. Uh, we raise smaller animals, uh, so we're finishing around a thousand pounds, so our halves and our halves run about 300 pounds is what we kind of is our target goal that we end up shooting for. That's smaller than some producers that will go up to 450 or so, but with that a quarter of our beef normally will fit in a standard lower freezer. But we tell folks, if you do that, you won't be able to have that ice cream in there. The trade-offs that some of these metropolitan pretty um customers have to make as far as if they're interested in buying a share or they want to pay the the more inflated price by buying by the cut at their local butcher and going through those processes. So we're kind of really we really push our state and everything else and I really hope there becomes more models. Montana has a Montana grown program where producers all their butcher shops that are certified, I believe can butcher and process right in the state for interest state sales so they can sell directly to you. So we're hoping that our state can jump on board and become one of those as well in the future, just so that we can provide more beef direct to those customers. That really really would be great, not only from a marketing standpoint but just for community health standpoint. 0:36:40 - Cal Oh yeah, yeah. Two things on there. I want to talk about breeds of cattle. I always have to talk about that. I want to talk about that, but before we go there, on your website you have a brochure for your consumers. Actually, after talking to you, this does not shock me at all, but when I saw it I was like this is wonderful. I was very impressed with it, the way you have it broke down. So you have something to give to your consumers for more information and then if they want to get beef to process and stuff, I just thought that was really good. If someone wants to look at a great example, you have one on your website. Thanks, cal, appreciate it. And then my other question, or my other comment, was towards breeds. Let's talk breeds just a moment before we get to the overgrazing section. What breeds are you working with? Have they been consistently the same breeds your whole time? 0:37:39 - Jake Yeah, so we run a black baldy program so we have a lot of herford influence in our herd. But we've been breeding for years now with mainly Angus dominated cattle, and those are all black Angus. We do that for for a couple of different reasons. Like I said, one of our biggest downfalls of our operation is we don't own any property, and so if, in a worst case scenario, if the world fell to pieces and we lost every one of our leases, we would have to liquidate our whole entire herd. And at least in our area and I think it's a nationwide thing and stuff black-hided cattle are still drawing a premium. And so, with that and planning for the future and making those smart decisions even from my wife's standpoint, that if something was to ever happen to me or something and she had to liquidate the herd where do we make those decisions? And so we breed black cattle just for that exit strategy, if we have to. The other thing is we have a great experience with, uh, angus cattle as far as their average daily gains that we end up getting. Oh yeah, and and then docility is one of our biggest coaling traits. We do not put up with attitudes. It's the first one that goes on the butcher block. We get rid of cows that cause issues or anything else, and we found more as I've traveled across and worked with different breeds of cattle and everything else. The number one thing that I've seen is coaling decisions are paramount to almost anything, everything from daily gains to temperament, to carcass size, all of those things. Those are really in the hand of the producer that you really get a shape and start to make those production based decisions. And so it's been one of those things that we've really stressed ourselves on, and the Angus frame has kind of helped us as well, kind of maintain around a thousand pound finishing weight as well and so kind of balancing all those things. that's why we've kind of steered that way. 0:39:39 - Cal Something you said there. I love so much of what you said. But something you said there I immediately thought of real estate. I'm a wannabe real estate investor. I don't have money, but I want to my brother and I talk about it all the time. I'm trying toabe real estate investor. I don't have money, but I want to my brother and I talk about it all the time. I'm trying to convince him to spend money, anyway, but one thing they always talk about in real estate is your exit strategy, and you've got to have more than one because you never know exactly where the market's going to go. We could predict the market for sure. We wouldn't need multiple exit strategies, but we can't, so we've got to have multiple ways to get out. And what if this happens? Then X, y, z, whatever. I think such forethought there that you know if something happens and you lose some of those leases or very many of them, you've got animals that will go through a sell ring and bring good value. I know with some breeds we find in the grass-based arena, those animals are not going to bring near what they're actually worth through a traditional cell barn. So I love the thought pattern there about here's a potential issue we have. Here's our exit strategy. 0:40:53 - Jake So in case something happens, just like we provide the insurance to our customers, part of it being responsible is providing that insurance to not only my wife but even just our family. As far as making those type of decisions, we had to kind of come up with that plan, and that that's part of it. 0:41:10 - Cal We had to kind of come up with that plan and that's part of it. Yeah, yeah, I think. Excellent job there, Jake. Let's transition to the overgrazing section, sponsored by Redmond. At Redmond, we know that you thrive when your animals do. That's why it's essential to fill the gaps in your herd's nutrition with the minerals that they need. With the minerals that they need Made by nature, our ancient mineral salt and conditioner clay are the catalyst in optimizing the nutrients your animals get from their forage. Unaltered and unrefined, our minerals have the natural balance and proportion that your animals prefer. This gives your herd the ability to naturally regulate their mineral consumption as they graze. Our minerals won't just help you improve the health of your animals, but will also help you naturally build soil fertility so you can grow more nutrient-dense pasture year after year. Nourish your animals, your soil and your life with Redmond. Learn more at redmondagriculturecom. We're going to take a deeper dive into your prescribed conservation grazing. To your prescribed conservation grazing. Earlier you mentioned that over half the land you lease are owned by conservation groups or something. So tell us about that first, and then we'll talk a little bit about that prescribed conservation grazing. Sorry, I had to read my notes. 0:42:42 - Jake No, you're great, yeah, two thirds of our properties, just over two thirds my notes. No, you're great, yeah, two-thirds of our properties, just over two-thirds of our properties are owned by conservation groups and or are a combination of conservation easements that are on the properties. Oh, okay With that. Washington State is super sensitive towards water quality-based issues, and so what we ended up doing early in that first year was kind of seeing a need for those property owners. It may have been that they needed a stuffed brush cut, and so much so that we ended up seeing also the scientific community what they needed as far as vegetation management. And so that's where that kind of meeting with those NGOs, those non-government organizations and partners started that conversation, as we said, hey, we can be part of that solution and kind of work with you, and so that's kind of where that relationship kind of started and at the same time, recognizing that they were doing it for a need for invasive species management and or a combination of habitat improvement for endangered species. So when you meet with them and you describe this as prescribed conservation, grazing- is this a plan that you all come up with together to meet their needs as well as your needs? Yeah, Cal, I think. If you Google different descriptions for grazing programs, I think the Google search may fill up too much from everything from intensive management to managed. Intensive to holistic, to rotational, to clockwork to amp. Yeah, you could go on and on and I think every program and stuff comes back to. The basis is we're interested in soil, we're interested in water and we're interested in plants and we're interested in, ultimately, the production, making sure that our operations are financially supported for generations to come, with production, chose prescribed conservation, grazing as kind of our description of what we end up doing in our operation. Very much so because, like I said, I have two young daughters and they were very young when this process was and many of the terms they just did not understand. And so when we broke down each one of those words, we described each one of our properties as having its own prescription. And when we meet with those property owners, we ask them what their prescription is. And, just the same, in the interest of transparency, we always describe it to folks of if you're having heart issues and you have to take a blood thinner so that you don't have a heart attack, that's gonna save your life, most likely. But just like a prescription, there may be downfalls and side effects. And we do not shy away from saying those things and stuff in terms of grazing that, yes, there may be downfalls, there may be side effects of grazing that maybe are not always perfect and so we're very open with those prescriptions. Those prescriptions may run from controlling cool season annuals like rat tail fescue, which is an invasive grass that we end up dealing with that we're targeting. It may end up involving managing grazing windows to support endangered species like the Mazama pocket golfer on our prairie habitats. It may involve for some of our property owners, as wildfires became bigger, just fire load reduction as we try to hit those targets by the 4th of July, reducing those fire loads or late in the season, here we have the Oregon spotted frog, which is endangered, and creating a habitat that's supportive of the Oregon spotted frog as the seasonal floodwaters kind of increase. So each property has its own prescription. We describe it as conservation because every one of our properties we do a lot of things and stuff in the interest of habitat and wildlife. That may include different deferral windows to support breeding seasons and such, and it even goes so far as the fence designs and construction that we end up doing to include using such things as tilt up fences which provide no barrier opportunities for wildlife to simply walk underneath 12 foot areas as we lift the fences into the air and deer and elk are able and bear, are able to walk right underneath our fences, and so we do such things as that solely based on, not simply from a production-based standpoint, but that, and then the last part being grazing Our cattle. Like I said, they spend their whole, entire grazing season on pasture, and even during wintertime we continue to keep them on large paddock rotations as we pasture feed, and they never eat out of bunks or anything else in a confinement based system. We're not saying that as a negative. It's just how our operation is, just your operation, yeah. 0:47:33 - Cal Very good. I think that's very interesting. You're taking in you know, like you said, there's all kinds of ways to take it but very holistic view of it and really looking at those other factors involved in determining how you're grazing that property, whether it's the grazing window or you're reducing fire load at a certain time or battling invasive species. So very interesting. Is there anything in that that's caused that maybe you didn't foresee as you started through that journey? 0:48:07 - Jake and that there were going to be times when stuff didn't work out. That may involve such things as a wet sequence coming in and we have a corral system that's stuck in lower ground that we have to get out and causing rutting in pastures and those type of things. It may involve cattle overgrazing and pugging up soils because we're unable to rotate them in a timely fashion. It may involve such questions as hey, with our grazing program, grazing right at the water's edge, what is that going to do to such things as fecal form and water quality? And one of the cool things that we've been able to do is have those honest, open conversations, not trying to hide any of those things and rather approaching it from. Hey, if this and when this happens, what are we going to do? And I think you touched base on this earlier, cal is communications a big thing with us, and we communicate and we work with our conservation partners. I think every two, three days I'm sending a text message or an email or something communicating with them, even such as sharing when we're ended up rotating cattle, when those come off, and such we. We've been blessed with that relationship. Some of the things that have been interesting was hey, how is water quality ended up working in your operations, and we are very diligent in that. We just finished up Oregon spotted frog program, figuring out how that ends up working by grazing cattle right up to the water's edge, and fecal coliform numbers did increase, but I'm happy to report that we went from zero parts per million to three parts per million. The treatment standard for drinking water is around 200 parts per million, so the amount that it increased was absolutely nothing for intensive purposes, and one of the things that we were not aware that we were going to end up finding and did is that dissolved oxygens actually increased when we ended up grazing cattle, which increased the water quality and the habitat survivability for fish, and we believe that this may be a contributing factor of removing some of that vegetation that otherwise would just simply die and degrade in the water if it had not been grazed and or had simply been mowed and laid to rest. And so all of this was a very interesting finding that we ended up finding in the grazing with these grazing programs. But at the same time, we don't shy away from that Sometimes things are not going to work out perfect with our production, with our property owners, and I can tell you that having those open, honest conversations has really helped to bridge those gaps, and when those heartaches have came up, they've been, for all intensive purposes, very manageable to work through. 0:51:06 - Cal Oh, very good With you, know I? I sit here and think I just want one thing to work perfectly. That would be nice. Oh, you talk about grazing up to the water edge. Are you watering those cows out of those natural water sources there? 0:51:24 - Jake No, so one of our biggest. We have a couple different management requirements when we end up taking on a property. One is that we have well and or spring fed dedicated watering spots, separate than allowing our cattle to drink out of open water sources. So we require that at every one of our properties and, as a matter of fact, that's been one of require that at every one of our properties and, as a matter of fact, that's been one of the limiting factors with some of our properties and it's been one of our educational opportunities with our conservation partners. As land trusts and such have taken over historical operations, the old management practice was that, in our area at least, is they would come in and bulldoze down those buildings, those houses, those wellheads and everything else to return it to a more natural state when, at the same time now we've lost the opportunity for electric fences, we've lost the opportunity for well-based water and so for all intensive purposes from a production basis, we've lost that opportunity to use grazing as a responsible management tool on those properties that really, when we talk to these property owners, we believe that grazing is one of the most fiscally responsible tools. Running a diesel powered tractor every year across your field makes absolutely no sense when you can have cattle do that for you, if managed properly. And at the whole same time producing a product that can be consumed right in your communities. I mean, what a win-win on so many different levels. 0:52:48 - Cal Oh yeah, I completely agree. You know livestock are essential to a well-functioning ecosystem and so often we see in these return to nature or rewilding programs, livestock are not always included. In fact, down the road from me there's a section of land set aside by the owner for Boy Scouts and they don't allow any grazing animals in there. So it's an interesting thing to see and drive by there and look at it, but they just want to save it for wildlife. Well, livestock as part of that can really make it much better than what you can get without it. 0:53:30 - Jake Very much so, very, very much so. We've got so far away from the true interest of the rewilding processes. Those just don't happen, unfortunately, nor do, at least have I not seen them, because so much so. We don't allow rivers to flood, we don't allow flood sequences like they naturally occur, we don't allow wildfire like it naturally occurred, all of those processes that nature itself has in there. We as a civilization, and had to make some tough decisions and I would describe it as the prescription that we all have agreed to that there's gonna be some trade-offs and stuff, but we believe that we're doing it for the greater good and just the same. Like going back to the prescription side of things, the great thing about a prescription is it's fully adjustable. You meet with your doctor regularly. You talk about what's working, what's not working and kind of tweak it, and so very much so how that ends up working. Mother Nature did many of those tweaks for us with wildfire and flood sequences, and we've, for all intents and purposes, we've stopped many of those things, sometimes for the betterment of all, but some of that rewilding process is just not there. 0:54:41 - Cal Oh yeah, yeah. Excellent discussion, jake, but it is time we move to our famous four questions, sponsored by Ken Cove Farm Fence. Ken Cove Farm Fence is a proud supporter of the Grazing Grass Podcast and grazers everywhere At Ken Cove Farm Fence they believe there's true value within the community of grazers and land stewards. The results that follow, proper management and monitoring, can change the very world around us. That's why Ken Cove is dedicated to providing an ever-expanding line of grazing products to make your chores easier and your land more abundant. Whether you're growing your own food on the homestead or grazing on thousands of acres, ken Cove has everything you need to do it well, from reels to tumbleweels, polytwine to electric nets, water valves to water troughs, you'll find what you're looking for at Ken Cove. They carry brands like Speedrite, o'briens, kiwi Tech, strainrite, jobe and more. Ken Cove is proud to be part of your regenerative journey. Call them today or visit KenCovecom, and be sure to follow them on social media and subscribe to the Ken Cove YouTube channel at Ken Cove Farm Fence for helpful how-to videos and new product releases. Same four questions we ask of all of our guests. And our first question Jake, what is your favorite grazing grass related book or resource? 0:56:09 - Jake I think, as you've kind of followed along my journey here, one of the best ones I ended up finding was Greg Judy no Risk Ranching, custom Grazing on Leased Ground. It was very interesting. I found Greg's books and stuff about two years after getting into our operation and it made me laugh that in many ways it seems like the two of us have a very similar journey and one day I'd be blessed to meet with them and be able to sit around and have a cup of coffee and discuss kind of how this ends up working. But great book on looking at using lease pastures especially for first-generation producers and kind of what that ends up looking like. 0:56:47 - Cal Yeah, and a lot of times I know growing up around ag and cattle and we've got cattle, my grandparents have cattle but I never considered using leased land as the first option. It was like I've got to buy some land, then I'll get some livestock and then I'll get leased land just to grow it to make my operation more efficient. And Greg Judy does a great job of explaining how you can get started without all that capital outlay using leased land and doing custom grazing. So that book for me as well was very influential. It just took me longer to internalize it. Get it working for me, yep. Our second question Jake, what is your favorite tool for the farm? 0:57:35 - Jake God, this is an easy one for us. Every single one of our vehicles has one. It's always found in the driver's side door. It is a Gallagher fault finder, and we have one in every single vehicle, and so much so that it's labeled with what vehicle it's in, so if it's ever missing, we know exactly where it should be. But these things are great. It's a voltage meter for your electric fences and at the same time it provides an amp flow indicator that tells you what direction if you have a fault on your fence. So if a tree falls on, an insulator falls off if your fence is set up correctly. It really helps and speeds up that process as far as troubleshooting for those electric fence management issues. 0:58:20 - Cal Yeah, I love a fault finder voltage reader. I actually use a remote control one for my StayFix, but I'm actually not running my StayFix Energizer anymore, I'm using a Cyclops, so I don't have the remote capability, but I still carry that with me. Them kind of like you label the remotes in your house. How'd the living room remote get in the bedroom? You know, so you know where that goes, so you're not at a loss when you go. Where is that? Very much so. Our third question jake, what would you tell someone just getting started? 0:58:59 - Jake I tell folks I hate social media and I love it all. At the same time, I tell folks take photos and tell your story. We do this for a multitude of reasons. Agriculture is just like many other industries. We often keep those things secret as far as what are steps for success, and sometimes we even keep secret those things that went bad. And I think when we can teach and share and and help each other, god, it speeds that process up so much. The other part of it is and this is a huge one for folks that are on lease ground the power of before and after photographs is a game changer, and so by taking those photographs in the world that we live in, that, unlike our old photo albums that mom used to write the dates and where they were taken on and everything back, google now tracks all those things and so we literally can go back to those properties and where we're writing those year end reports. I can look at, hey, what did that bridge look like a couple years ago, or where was that photograph, and I can search by properties. I can search by years and calendars and I can do a lot of before and after photographs and show that, and often, as producers, we sometimes I think in all industries put emotions in front of reality and photos. I think, though, sometimes they don't tell all the story. They tell a lot of it, and so we're able to take our emotions and go, god, last year was a really good, it was the best grass year ever. And then we can go back and look at photographs and go, huh man, grass was actually six inches shorter and wasn't as green, and I didn't have as much clover and everything else, and so share photographs and take photos and tell stories and help each other is a true, true game changer. 1:00:43 - Cal Uh, and I'm going to say that is wonderful advice that I need to take. I I often look in my photos. I'm like I need some kind of photo for whatever reason, and I don't take enough photos when I'm out there. And then, um, try and think who I just talked to about their place. Oh, blaine, that's on a few episodes of before yours. He is talked to about their place. Oh, blaine, that's on a few episodes before yours. He is really good about taking photos and you know, getting a landmark in that photo so you're able to identify where it is or some way you know where you're taking it, so you can see progression over time. I think so important. And the other part I have to do better too is tell my story. I was talking to someone just Saturday and I said marketing, I'm not good at marketing. They're like I see you marketing the podcast and getting that out there. I said I do okay with the podcast, the farm, I do a terrible job. I've got to, I've got to work on that. So, jake, both of those things. I don't know if you were aiming them at me, but I'm thinking, yeah, I need them. But excellent advice there. And lastly, Jake, where can others find out more about you? We have our website, wwwtracking T-R-A-C-K-I-N-G. The letter Y is in yancyranchcom. We're also on Instagram and Facebook under Tracking why Ranch as well. So all three of those. And then, last but not least, we do post some videos and everything just based on format onto our YouTube channel. So, once again under Tracking Y Ranch. All those things are great. And then at our website, you can sign up for our monthly newsletter. We don't sell that information or anything else, and just send out that monthly newsletter as a tool. On your monthly newsletter. What's kind of the content of it? Is it something that it'd be beneficial for me to subscribe to, or is it mainly more consumer oriented? 1:02:35 - Jake Yeah, we kind of do, a basis of the kind of mix. My daughters take a huge opportunity in that it's kind of one of their chores is putting together that monthly newsletter. Often it's telling about what's going on in the operation, as far as seasonally, so that folks understand kind of what the processes are, what projects we're working on and we always try to toss in some sort of educational opportunity in there, maybe such things as this time of year we're getting ready for harvest and so we're giving our purchasers some tips and tricks for calling in those cutting orders and things that they may not think of, such as, if you're not interested in so much hamburger, you may ask for a lot more packs of stew meat, and so we do lots of steak bites that we bread and we do lots of kebabs and all those type of things. So little things like that that we ended up tossing in there to include up to even fencing ideas. 1:03:25 - Cal Very good. Well, jake, really appreciate you coming on and sharing with us today. 1:03:30 - Jake I've enjoyed the conversation, thank you Cal, Sure Appreciate it and sure Appreciate your podcast. Well, thank you. 1:03:38 - Cal I really hope you enjoyed today's conversation. I know I did. Hope you enjoyed today's conversation. I know I did. Thank you for listening and if you found something useful, please share it. Share it on your social media. Tell your friends, get the word out about the podcast. Helps us grow. If you happen to be a grass farmer and you'd like to share about your journey, go to grazinggrasscom and click on Be Our Guest. Fill out the form and I'll be in touch. We appreciate your support by sharing our episodes and telling your friends about it. You can also support our show by buying our merch. We get a little bit back from that. Another way to support the show is by becoming a Grazing Grass Insider. Grazing Grass Insiders enjoy bonus content, monthly Zooms and discounts. You can visit the website grazinggrasscom, click on support and they'll have the links there. Also, if you haven't left us a review, please do. It really helps us, as people are searching for podcasts and I was just checking them and we do not have very many reviews for 2024. So if you haven't left us a review, please do. Until next time, keep on grazing grass. Transcribed by https://podium.page