Becky Szarzynski is a pioneering farmer in the field of sustainable farming and regenerative agriculture. With her independent venture, Ember Cattle Company, based in Fairfield, Virginia, Becky has transformed her family's farming legacy into a solo endeavor. Her journey is marked by innovative practices such as intensifying grazing techniques and focusing on more frequent moves. Becky's story is a compelling narrative of resilience and passion as she navigates the complexities of transitioning from a joint family operation to a successful independent farm business, all while maintaining strong family ties.
Topics covered in this episode:
- Transition from joint family farming to independent farming
- Innovations in grazing practices and cattle management
- Challenges of non-selective grazing and managing Sericea lespedeza
- Integration of sheep alongside cattle
- Emotional and mental challenges of family farm dynamics
- The role of cattle genetics in improving herd quality
- Importance of dung beetles in regenerative agriculture
- Efficient cattle management with ATVs
- Future prospects of regenerative agriculture in the USA
Listening to this podcast offers invaluable insights into the world of regenerative agriculture through Becky's firsthand experiences and expertise. Whether you're an aspiring farmer or a seasoned agricultural enthusiast, Becky's innovative approaches and practical tips provide a comprehensive understanding of sustainable farming practices. Her journey underscores the potential for personal growth and success in agriculture, encouraging listeners to embrace both the challenges and rewards of this dynamic field.
Links Mentioned in the Episode
Ember Cattle Company
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Noble Research Institute
Redmond
GBT Angus
Grazing Grass Links
New Listener Resource Guide
Provide feedback for the podcast
Website
Insiders
Resources (Coming Soon)
Community (on Facebook)
Check out the Apiary Chronicles Podcast
Original Music by Louis Palfrey
Chapters
- (00:00) - Introduction and Guest Revisit
- (00:15) - Fast Five Questions
- (01:05) - Podcast Overview and Sponsor Message
- (02:51) - Farm Update and Grazing Goals
- (05:35) - Becky's Journey and Farm Split
- (08:01) - Challenges and New Beginnings
- (12:31) - Family Dynamics and Support
- (22:40) - Grazing Practices and Innovations
- (35:08) - Genetics and Culling Standards
- (42:37) - Feeding Strategies and Genetic Improvement
- (44:08) - Considering Sheep and Overgrazing
- (46:50) - Introduction to Dung Beetles
- (49:52) - Dung Beetle Lifecycle and Benefits
- (53:45) - Challenges and Observations with Dung Beetles
- (01:04:37) - Advice for New Farmers
- (01:20:03) - Future of Regenerative Agriculture
- (01:25:21) - Conclusion and Resources
NOTE This file was generated by Descript
00:00:00 --> 00:00:05 Cal: On today's episode, we revisit a past guest of the podcast.
00:00:05 --> 00:00:08 It's been four years since she's been on, and we talk about her
00:00:08 --> 00:00:14 transition from grazing and farming with her dad to going out on her own.
00:00:15 --> 00:00:18 So we will get started with the Fast five.
00:00:18 --> 00:00:20 Our first question, what's your name
00:00:21 --> 00:00:23 Becky: Becky Szarzynski is my name.
00:00:24 --> 00:00:25 Cal: and what's your farm's name?
00:00:25 --> 00:00:28 Becky: My farm name is Ember Cattle Company,
00:00:29 --> 00:00:30 Cal: Where are you located?
00:00:30 --> 00:00:32 Becky: located in Fairfield, Virginia.
00:00:34 --> 00:00:35 Cal: What livestock do you graze?
00:00:35 --> 00:00:39 Becky: I currently graze South Poll grass cattle cow calf operation.
00:00:41 --> 00:00:41 Cal: Very good.
00:00:42 --> 00:00:43 And when did you start grazing animals?
00:00:44 --> 00:00:47 Becky: More intensively about 17 years ago.
00:00:47 --> 00:00:52 But grew up on a small cow calf operation as a, as a child.
00:00:52 --> 00:00:56 So lifelong but more intensely last later half of my life.
00:00:57 --> 00:00:57 Cal: Right.
00:00:57 --> 00:01:00 I've been around grazing my whole life, but you know, those early years
00:01:00 --> 00:01:02 I didn't pay much attention to it.
00:01:03 --> 00:01:04 Becky: Wasn't as interesting back then.
00:01:05 --> 00:01:07 Cal: Welcome to the grazing grass podcast.
00:01:07 --> 00:01:10 The podcast dedicated to sharing the stories of grass-based
00:01:10 --> 00:01:14 livestock producers, exploring regenerative practices that improve
00:01:14 --> 00:01:17 the land animals and our lives.
00:01:17 --> 00:01:22 I'm your host, Cal Hardage and each week we'll dive into the journeys,
00:01:22 --> 00:01:26 challenges, and successes of producers like you, learning from
00:01:26 --> 00:01:31 their experiences, and inspiring each other to grow, and graze better.
00:01:32 --> 00:01:36 Whether you're a seasoned grazier or just getting started.
00:01:36 --> 00:01:38 This is the place for you.
00:01:39 --> 00:01:41 You're growing more than grass.
00:01:42 --> 00:01:45 You're growing a healthier ecosystem to help your cattle
00:01:45 --> 00:01:47 thrive in their environment.
00:01:47 --> 00:01:52 You're growing your livelihood by increasing your carrying capacity
00:01:52 --> 00:01:54 and reducing your operating costs.
00:01:55 --> 00:02:00 You're growing stronger communities and a legacy to last generations.
00:02:01 --> 00:02:04 The grazing management decisions you make today.
00:02:04 --> 00:02:10 impact everything from the soil beneath your feet to the community all around you.
00:02:10 --> 00:02:15 That's why the Noble Research Institute created their Essentials
00:02:15 --> 00:02:21 of Regenerative Grazing course to teach ranchers like you easy to follow
00:02:21 --> 00:02:27 techniques to quickly assess your forage production and infrastructure capacity.
00:02:27 --> 00:02:31 In order to begin grazing more efficiently.
00:02:31 --> 00:02:35 Together, they can help you grow not only a healthier operation,
00:02:36 --> 00:02:38 but a legacy that lasts.
00:02:39 --> 00:02:42 Learn more on their website at noble.
00:02:42 --> 00:02:44 org slash grazing.
00:02:44 --> 00:02:51 It's n o b l e dot org forward slash grazing.
00:02:54 --> 00:03:00 For 10 seconds about the farm, we have been feeding hay, keeping the cows up,
00:03:00 --> 00:03:03 trying to keep 'em from chasing all the grass because as I've talked about on
00:03:03 --> 00:03:08 the podcast before, we were unable to stockpile much forage for the winter.
00:03:09 --> 00:03:12 So coming into spring, we don't have a lot of grass out there.
00:03:13 --> 00:03:14 It is coming up good.
00:03:14 --> 00:03:17 But we need to get the cows into the working pins.
00:03:17 --> 00:03:22 So we brought 'em down and I have started, um, grazing and moving them.
00:03:23 --> 00:03:29 I think I'm a little early on that if I had more stockpile forages,
00:03:29 --> 00:03:31 it wouldn't be as big a problem.
00:03:31 --> 00:03:35 But I'm a little bit early, but I'm going to, I have two
00:03:35 --> 00:03:37 goals for this grazing season.
00:03:38 --> 00:03:39 The first, I think.
00:03:40 --> 00:03:44 As I've talked about in the past, last year, I got into a little bit
00:03:44 --> 00:03:49 of an issue with cia, less idesa, and I think that's because my cows were
00:03:49 --> 00:03:55 doing too selective grazing, were too selective during grazing periods.
00:03:55 --> 00:03:59 So I'm gonna try and move more towards that non-selective grazing and,
00:03:59 --> 00:04:02 um, tighten that paddock size more.
00:04:02 --> 00:04:07 The other thing I really wanna get done, that'll be the tougher of the two, is
00:04:07 --> 00:04:09 keeping the sheep and cattle together.
00:04:10 --> 00:04:15 Uh, that's, that's contributed to my part of my slow grass start.
00:04:16 --> 00:04:20 Boy, getting that s out that's contributed to my slow grass.
00:04:20 --> 00:04:20 Start.
00:04:20 --> 00:04:26 The sheep do not necessarily respect the fences as well as I'd like for them to.
00:04:26 --> 00:04:31 So they've grazed on a bigger area and I didn't have them confined.
00:04:31 --> 00:04:34 Uh, so right now I've got the cows and sheep together.
00:04:34 --> 00:04:39 I'm gonna see if I can keep them together and keep 'em moving that way.
00:04:40 --> 00:04:43 Uh, stay tuned on the podcast and we'll talk about and see
00:04:43 --> 00:04:44 how it goes over the year.
00:04:45 --> 00:04:49 For 10 seconds about the podcast, I talked to Carson the other day.
00:04:49 --> 00:04:54 As I've mentioned a couple times, Carson from Redmond and he mentioned
00:04:54 --> 00:04:59 about man cattle and Veld by Johan Zeman, and it's a book I've been
00:04:59 --> 00:05:01 wanting to read and I haven't got read.
00:05:01 --> 00:05:04 He mentioned that it's available in the audio book.
00:05:04 --> 00:05:05 I did not know that.
00:05:06 --> 00:05:08 So that's what I've been listening to lately.
00:05:09 --> 00:05:09 Uh.
00:05:09 --> 00:05:12 I really enjoying that book.
00:05:12 --> 00:05:17 In fact, on the Friday, um, issue of Ready Set Graze Newsletter, I'm
00:05:17 --> 00:05:19 gonna talk more about the book.
00:05:19 --> 00:05:22 So if you're not a subscriber, the Ready Set Grays newsletter that I
00:05:22 --> 00:05:28 send out occasionally, actually very infrequently, I'm working towards
00:05:28 --> 00:05:29 getting that more frequently.
00:05:29 --> 00:05:33 Leave, uh, you can go to the website to subscribe to that.
00:05:35 --> 00:05:38 Anyway, let's talk to Becky and find out where her journey's
00:05:38 --> 00:05:40 gone in the last few years.
00:05:41 --> 00:05:43 And then we're going for the overgrazing section.
00:05:43 --> 00:05:45 I didn't mention this at the beginning, but we're gonna
00:05:45 --> 00:05:46 talk more about dung beetles.
00:05:49 --> 00:05:50 So let's get back to Becky.
00:05:52 --> 00:05:58 Becky, you were on the podcast for episode 35, which when I look at my
00:05:58 --> 00:06:01 calendar, it was almost four years ago.
00:06:01 --> 00:06:04 For one, it seems like, how can the podcast be going for that long?
00:06:05 --> 00:06:06 But secondly, that's a lot of time.
00:06:06 --> 00:06:10 I, I really thought when I looked it up, is this gonna be a couple years, but
00:06:10 --> 00:06:15 four years ago and you were grazing South Poll cattle on, I think it was three
00:06:15 --> 00:06:18 different farms with your, your parents.
00:06:19 --> 00:06:20 How has things evolved for you?
00:06:21 --> 00:06:21 Becky: Yeah.
00:06:22 --> 00:06:22 Well.
00:06:22 --> 00:06:24 It's, it's definitely evolved.
00:06:24 --> 00:06:26 It's definitely changed in the last four years and I can't believe
00:06:26 --> 00:06:27 it's been four years either.
00:06:27 --> 00:06:30 I was, I was thinking it was just like two years ago, but
00:06:30 --> 00:06:31 Cal: Right.
00:06:31 --> 00:06:33 Becky: when you're having fun time flies.
00:06:34 --> 00:06:35 yeah, things have changed.
00:06:35 --> 00:06:38 They've changed a lot and they haven't changed a lot, you know.
00:06:38 --> 00:06:42 So as I mentioned at the beginning of the podcast, my, my cattle
00:06:42 --> 00:06:44 business, Ember Cattle Company is new.
00:06:44 --> 00:06:51 So a few years back my dad and I decided to split the farm business in half.
00:06:52 --> 00:07:01 And that brought some interesting dynamics within the family between dad and I who
00:07:01 --> 00:07:03 were business partners for 15 years.
00:07:03 --> 00:07:09 But it also gave me some new challenges and some new things to think about.
00:07:09 --> 00:07:13 At that time that we decided to do a, a farm split.
00:07:14 --> 00:07:15 You know, I, I kind of was.
00:07:16 --> 00:07:19 Wrestling with the, the thought of, did I wanna keep farming?
00:07:19 --> 00:07:22 Was this something that I really wanted to, to do?
00:07:22 --> 00:07:26 Because as you know, in, in the audience here on the podcast, you
00:07:26 --> 00:07:29 know, farming is a lot of work.
00:07:29 --> 00:07:34 And we had spent the latter, the, all my adult life, expanding the farm
00:07:34 --> 00:07:37 to encompass three separate farms.
00:07:37 --> 00:07:41 Currently we're down to two, we sold one of 'em 'cause it was just a smaller
00:07:41 --> 00:07:45 acreage farm and ended up selling it to a high school friend of mine who has
00:07:45 --> 00:07:47 a goat dairy who makes amazing cheese.
00:07:47 --> 00:07:47 So it
00:07:48 --> 00:07:49 works out great.
00:07:49 --> 00:07:50 Cal: yes, it
00:07:50 --> 00:07:51 Becky: yeah.
00:07:51 --> 00:07:56 And so we're, we're at two farms now and yeah, so I was, I was kind of.
00:07:58 --> 00:08:01 Forced to, to think if I really wanted to keep farming or not.
00:08:01 --> 00:08:07 It was very challenging because I really hadn't drawn a paycheck from the farm
00:08:07 --> 00:08:12 in 15 years, and we were kind of always on this build, this incline of building
00:08:12 --> 00:08:16 more land, bigger herd, and you're just taking your profits and you're
00:08:16 --> 00:08:18 putting 'em right back into the farm.
00:08:18 --> 00:08:21 And I was getting really like, kind of discouraged.
00:08:21 --> 00:08:25 I was like, is this ever gonna be a profitable farm for me?
00:08:25 --> 00:08:30 Is this, is this dream I had of, of grazing cattle at a decent
00:08:30 --> 00:08:31 scale for here in Virginia?
00:08:31 --> 00:08:33 Is, is that, was that realistic?
00:08:33 --> 00:08:36 And I was starting to think that it really wasn't, it wasn't realistic.
00:08:36 --> 00:08:41 And, and I had multiple part-time jobs on the side to help support as well.
00:08:42 --> 00:08:47 And so ultimately after about eight months of contemplating this
00:08:47 --> 00:08:50 and kind of thinking myself sick through it you know, I was just.
00:08:51 --> 00:08:55 I was mentally and emotionally wore out by the end of that eight months, trying
00:08:55 --> 00:08:58 to figure out if this was something I really wanted to keep pursuing.
00:08:58 --> 00:09:02 And ultimately, obviously I'm here on the podcast today, so I decided yes.
00:09:03 --> 00:09:03 Cal: Yes.
00:09:04 --> 00:09:07 Becky: I was like, if I don't farm and what would I do?
00:09:07 --> 00:09:10 I said I'd save up money, I'd go buy some ransomware, and if I had grassland,
00:09:10 --> 00:09:12 I'd probably put some cows on it.
00:09:12 --> 00:09:15 So I was like, I'm already there, so there's no point
00:09:15 --> 00:09:17 in, in starting over again.
00:09:17 --> 00:09:20 And so essentially what I ended up doing was starting my own
00:09:20 --> 00:09:21 business, ber Cattle company.
00:09:21 --> 00:09:27 And that was a great learning experience because it, it also pushed
00:09:27 --> 00:09:29 me to go through some of these.
00:09:30 --> 00:09:34 These aspects of starting a farm business kind of all over again, even
00:09:34 --> 00:09:39 though I had the genetics I needed and I ended up working out a rental
00:09:39 --> 00:09:43 deal for my dad of renting the, one of the family farms from my father so
00:09:43 --> 00:09:45 that he can get income from the farm.
00:09:46 --> 00:09:50 And I can have management over that farm that I already knew.
00:09:50 --> 00:09:53 So that worked out really well, but I needed to get, you know,
00:09:53 --> 00:09:54 the business up and going.
00:09:55 --> 00:09:59 I had some new ideas and, and again, kind of silver lining of
00:09:59 --> 00:10:05 it was that it, it was kind of sad that we split a little bit, but.
00:10:05 --> 00:10:11 Since then, my dad and I's relationship is, is great and we still actually help
00:10:11 --> 00:10:12 each other as much as we did before.
00:10:12 --> 00:10:15 So things haven't changed too much in our dynamic.
00:10:16 --> 00:10:22 But now I can really focus on the grazing management, cattle genetic
00:10:22 --> 00:10:25 focuses that I really been wanting to do.
00:10:25 --> 00:10:28 For folks who know, who work with families, sometimes you can
00:10:28 --> 00:10:32 butt heads on different different thought processes and mindsets.
00:10:32 --> 00:10:37 And so that's really afforded me the opportunity to do that and see if my
00:10:37 --> 00:10:43 ideas and my mindsets actually work the way I think that they could or should.
00:10:43 --> 00:10:45 So that's been great.
00:10:45 --> 00:10:50 And it's funny at the time that that was going on, I was also, one of my part-time
00:10:50 --> 00:10:54 jobs was helping a grazier mentor program.
00:10:54 --> 00:10:57 So I was helping a bunch of new beginning grazier get paired up with
00:10:57 --> 00:10:59 experience grazier so that they could.
00:11:00 --> 00:11:03 Have someone to kinda lean upon for support.
00:11:03 --> 00:11:04 Cal: Oh yes.
00:11:04 --> 00:11:08 Becky: And so here I was kind of going through the same process as a lot of
00:11:08 --> 00:11:11 these beginner farmers of starting the farm business all over again.
00:11:12 --> 00:11:16 And so it was just really, really interesting to be kind of in
00:11:16 --> 00:11:18 that seat with them as well.
00:11:18 --> 00:11:22 And and then two, you know, again, having to kind of step
00:11:22 --> 00:11:24 back and, and rethink about it.
00:11:24 --> 00:11:27 Farming was something I wanted to continue to pursue.
00:11:29 --> 00:11:32 It really helped gimme a new perspective on farming.
00:11:33 --> 00:11:37 And so when I decided to, yes, I'm gonna keep farming, my new
00:11:37 --> 00:11:40 business is Emper Cattle Company, this is the direction I'm going.
00:11:40 --> 00:11:44 I really had a lot of motivation behind it this time.
00:11:44 --> 00:11:47 And, you know, because if you stay in farming for so long, you do it your
00:11:47 --> 00:11:49 whole life, you kind of hum drum.
00:11:49 --> 00:11:50 It gets mediocre.
00:11:50 --> 00:11:51 It's the same stuff over and over again.
00:11:52 --> 00:11:56 And so for me to have to sit down and really think about what I wanted
00:11:56 --> 00:12:01 in my life, what I wanted with my farm it really gave me that push.
00:12:01 --> 00:12:04 And so, again, it was a hard time to go through, but I'm really
00:12:04 --> 00:12:07 glad on the backside now that I, that I went through that.
00:12:07 --> 00:12:09 And it's been, it's been fun.
00:12:09 --> 00:12:12 It's been a, a new learning experience all over again for me.
00:12:13 --> 00:12:16 Cal: I, I would think getting started on that, you know, whenever
00:12:16 --> 00:12:19 you start a business, you're energized, you're motivated.
00:12:20 --> 00:12:24 But like everything, the longer you do it, that motivation wanes.
00:12:24 --> 00:12:28 You're not as energized and you, that's when that resilience and
00:12:28 --> 00:12:30 dedication and discipline comes in.
00:12:30 --> 00:12:31 All things I need to work on.
00:12:31 --> 00:12:37 But by, by taking over your own and getting started on your own path, I'm
00:12:37 --> 00:12:42 sure that reunited all that, the love for it and going forward, I do think
00:12:42 --> 00:12:45 it's really interesting family dynamics.
00:12:47 --> 00:12:52 I went to college, came home, dared with my parents for a number of years, and then
00:12:52 --> 00:12:56 we sold out the dairy and I worked off the farm, but I continued to help dad.
00:12:57 --> 00:13:04 And as I've matured, not age obviously, but as I've matured know, dad and I
00:13:04 --> 00:13:09 get along much better than we did when I was younger and we butted heads.
00:13:09 --> 00:13:15 We didn't agree upon direction of everything and much better now.
00:13:15 --> 00:13:21 It, it's really interesting because I think totally independent, I
00:13:21 --> 00:13:26 can do all this, but then I find myself, we do something and I call
00:13:26 --> 00:13:28 dad to talk to him about doing it.
00:13:28 --> 00:13:31 I'm like, but I did this so I can just do it on my own, you
00:13:31 --> 00:13:31 know?
00:13:31 --> 00:13:35 But, but dad and I are in constant communication.
00:13:35 --> 00:13:37 I mean, I talked to him this morning before the podcast.
00:13:37 --> 00:13:43 Um, in fact, right now since my lease land borders my dad's land and I use
00:13:43 --> 00:13:46 our facilities here, we have our cattle running together right now, so, you
00:13:47 --> 00:13:47 know.
00:13:48 --> 00:13:48 Yeah.
00:13:48 --> 00:13:50 So it actually, it works out pretty good because they're
00:13:50 --> 00:13:52 running on his land right now.
00:13:52 --> 00:13:54 So, yeah, mine's all getting rest, so it's really good.
00:13:55 --> 00:13:55 Becky: Even better.
00:13:56 --> 00:13:58 Yeah, no, I, yeah, I, I definitely agree.
00:13:58 --> 00:14:01 And, and yeah, family dynamics are can be very difficult.
00:14:01 --> 00:14:05 You know, and, and one thing too, like, I lost my mom it's been
00:14:05 --> 00:14:07 almost seven, eight years ago now.
00:14:07 --> 00:14:11 And when that happened, the dynamic between my father and I
00:14:11 --> 00:14:15 and our business and our personal relationship changed a lot.
00:14:16 --> 00:14:21 And and it's, it's been a struggle, but I've always been daddy's little girl too.
00:14:21 --> 00:14:22 So,
00:14:22 --> 00:14:28 you know, and I do the same thing you do, Cal, like, even today I've got a new idea.
00:14:28 --> 00:14:29 I'm going to still.
00:14:30 --> 00:14:32 To say, Hey dad, I got this idea.
00:14:32 --> 00:14:32 What do you think?
00:14:32 --> 00:14:36 Just in case, you know, he thinks of something that I just didn't before.
00:14:36 --> 00:14:41 He's got many more years of experience with life behind him and why wouldn't
00:14:41 --> 00:14:44 I wanna, you know, bounce ideas.
00:14:44 --> 00:14:49 So yeah, it's, you know, having family and just having someone to bounce ideas
00:14:49 --> 00:14:52 off of too is just absolutely amazing.
00:14:52 --> 00:14:57 And, and the more people you can bounce ideas off of, the better, in my opinion.
00:14:58 --> 00:15:03 Cal: Right, because they're not as close to the problem or issue or the solution
00:15:03 --> 00:15:07 because if you come up with a solution, a lot of times the ideas I come
00:15:07 --> 00:15:10 up with I'm in love with, and so.
00:15:10 --> 00:15:14 I, I tell my wife for one, and she'll pump the brakes and get me back on track.
00:15:14 --> 00:15:18 But you know, if, if she doesn't do it and I talk to dad, dad may be able to,
00:15:18 --> 00:15:20 to pick up some of those blind areas for
00:15:20 --> 00:15:25 me where that I miss because I just like this, this is the greatest idea ever.
00:15:25 --> 00:15:27 Why hasn't anybody thought of it?
00:15:27 --> 00:15:28 Becky: Same thing.
00:15:28 --> 00:15:28 Yep.
00:15:28 --> 00:15:29 I get you right there.
00:15:31 --> 00:15:31 Cal: Yeah.
00:15:31 --> 00:15:34 But I also, I don't even know where I was going with that, Becky.
00:15:34 --> 00:15:35 We'll just cut it out.
00:15:35 --> 00:15:38 I'm still amateur podcaster, by the way, still learning this process.
00:15:40 --> 00:15:43 Becky: I, you know, that's, that's part of, that's part of life,
00:15:43 --> 00:15:45 you know, and, you know, we need,
00:15:45 --> 00:15:49 we need to keep these moments in the podcast so that everyone knows that this
00:15:49 --> 00:15:51 is what happens in real podcast, you know?
00:15:52 --> 00:15:56 Cal: Actually, to be honest, I have evolved on that and I
00:15:56 --> 00:16:00 do leave more mistakes in the podcast than my early episodes.
00:16:01 --> 00:16:03 I wasn't a very good podcaster then.
00:16:04 --> 00:16:06 Probably still not, but I cut everything out.
00:16:06 --> 00:16:08 Now I leave a lot more in
00:16:09 --> 00:16:13 just because I want this to be real, this to be transparent.
00:16:13 --> 00:16:13 I want,
00:16:14 --> 00:16:15 Becky: Absolutely.
00:16:15 --> 00:16:19 And, and you know, too, like, and I'd like to talk more about Ben Ben's my fiance,
00:16:19 --> 00:16:23 but we, we always talk about like social media and stuff about how, like on the
00:16:23 --> 00:16:28 farming posts and stuff, everyone always talks about the good moments because it's
00:16:28 --> 00:16:32 great, you know, you wanna share your good moments, but we never share the bad ones.
00:16:33 --> 00:16:38 And we always talk about like, we just need, like, I'm gonna start some YouTube
00:16:38 --> 00:16:42 videos or just purely the bad moments of farming, be like, this happens,
00:16:42 --> 00:16:44 you know, it happens to everybody.
00:16:44 --> 00:16:48 But yeah, just so that we all know, like, you know, we always look like all our
00:16:49 --> 00:16:53 social media looks perfect, and it's like, nope, that's not how it goes actually.
00:16:54 --> 00:16:58 Cal: Right, and And we don't wanna share those and we really need to, and when
00:16:58 --> 00:17:03 I say that, I'm really talking specific to, to me, because I am terrible.
00:17:04 --> 00:17:06 I just talked to Carson from Redmond the other day.
00:17:06 --> 00:17:13 He was down here for a conference and we were talking and I said, my big holdup, or
00:17:13 --> 00:17:18 my big thing that causes me not to put out more stuff is I can't stand to be wrong.
00:17:18 --> 00:17:20 And I know I'm wrong.
00:17:20 --> 00:17:21 I know I'm learning.
00:17:21 --> 00:17:22 I know I'm evolving.
00:17:22 --> 00:17:27 I know my opinion tomorrow will be different than today because tomorrow
00:17:27 --> 00:17:28 I'll be different than I was today.
00:17:29 --> 00:17:33 It's just part of the, our maturation or our growth process, especially
00:17:33 --> 00:17:34 if you have that growth mindset.
00:17:34 --> 00:17:37 So I know that's the case, but I just.
00:17:38 --> 00:17:39 I just don't want to be wrong.
00:17:40 --> 00:17:46 And, and so that causes me not to put out stuff that I I try and be more transparent
00:17:46 --> 00:17:50 on the podcast and say, you know, last year I grazed wrong and serencia took
00:17:50 --> 00:17:52 over a area that now I've gotta fix this
00:17:52 --> 00:17:52 year.
00:17:53 --> 00:17:55 but it's really hard for me to do that.
00:17:56 --> 00:17:56 Becky: I agree.
00:17:56 --> 00:18:00 It, it's very difficult to, to yeah, the same thing happens with me all the time.
00:18:00 --> 00:18:05 I, I've got hundreds of videos that I've made to put on YouTube
00:18:05 --> 00:18:09 or for social media to share what I'm doing, and I never post 'em.
00:18:09 --> 00:18:13 I just delete 'em after a couple months because I'm like, this was stupid.
00:18:13 --> 00:18:14 This was dumb.
00:18:14 --> 00:18:15 Nobody wants to hear this.
00:18:15 --> 00:18:20 Or if this really isn't the case for them, or if I can't stand to
00:18:20 --> 00:18:23 hear a bad comment from somebody, I'm just like, I just won't post it.
00:18:23 --> 00:18:26 And at the same time, it's like, you know what?
00:18:28 --> 00:18:33 If you wanna share your story, if you wanna share the ins and outs, that's con,
00:18:33 --> 00:18:37 that's contributing to a lot of people out there who, who want to know because.
00:18:37 --> 00:18:41 They are thinking about getting into farming or they're getting into South
00:18:41 --> 00:18:46 Pole or grazing or whatnot, and they, I feel like sharing your story is just
00:18:46 --> 00:18:49 gonna help someone else out whether it's the good stuff or the bad stuff.
00:18:50 --> 00:18:51 And so, yeah, I agree.
00:18:51 --> 00:18:55 It's, it's hard to, to keep putting all that stuff out there
00:18:55 --> 00:18:56 and you're like, oh, I don't know.
00:18:56 --> 00:18:59 Is, am I gonna say something about this?
00:18:59 --> 00:19:02 Or, you know, is, is, is am I gonna change my mind in a year?
00:19:02 --> 00:19:06 And, you know, I'm a female so I change my mind every five, five days.
00:19:06 --> 00:19:07 So you never know.
00:19:07 --> 00:19:11 Cal: Well that's, that's not limited to females, that's everyone.
00:19:11 --> 00:19:14 I'm, I'm as guilty of it as anyone.
00:19:14 --> 00:19:17 And, and I will say for the podcast, the positive comments
00:19:17 --> 00:19:22 I get from the podcast far, far, far outright outweigh the negative
00:19:23 --> 00:19:23 Becky: Yeah,
00:19:24 --> 00:19:27 Cal: But it just takes one negative comment to put me in a bad mood for a
00:19:27 --> 00:19:28 while.
00:19:28 --> 00:19:28 you.
00:19:28 --> 00:19:29 know?
00:19:29 --> 00:19:32 I do feel, you know, a rising tide lifts all boats that we
00:19:32 --> 00:19:34 ought to be supporting each other.
00:19:34 --> 00:19:38 So I, I really get confused when people wanna put negative stuff out there.
00:19:38 --> 00:19:40 I just don't think it's beneficial.
00:19:42 --> 00:19:44 Anyway, I won't go on that soapbox longer.
00:19:45 --> 00:19:48 Let's, let's talk about getting Ember Cattle Company started.
00:19:48 --> 00:19:49 Becky: Yeah,
00:19:50 --> 00:19:54 Cal: You, you were able, you had access to cattle you already had with your dad.
00:19:54 --> 00:19:58 Did you and your dad own everything together and can you split it up?
00:19:58 --> 00:20:01 Or did you have some that were your cattle and some that was his cattle?
00:20:02 --> 00:20:06 Becky: technically all the cows were kind of like the Mountain Glen Farm,
00:20:06 --> 00:20:10 which is his farm business and the one I was working with him under.
00:20:10 --> 00:20:14 And so when I started my new one, we just came to the terms that I was gonna.
00:20:15 --> 00:20:16 Take half, he was gonna take half.
00:20:16 --> 00:20:19 We sat down and sorted through them.
00:20:19 --> 00:20:20 I had some of my favorites.
00:20:20 --> 00:20:22 He had some of his favorites and,
00:20:22 --> 00:20:24 and we kind of went from there.
00:20:24 --> 00:20:30 And, and that was it was a good time to like review what we had and how far we'd
00:20:30 --> 00:20:34 come and in 15 years since we had started at that point in the South Pole breed.
00:20:35 --> 00:20:38 I know, I think in my first podcast with you, I talked about, we
00:20:38 --> 00:20:41 started out with Black Angus and slowly transitioned to South Pole.
00:20:41 --> 00:20:44 And so now we're, we're a hundred percent South Pole or percentage
00:20:44 --> 00:20:46 South Poles in there still.
00:20:46 --> 00:20:49 Because we just really found that this breed works really
00:20:49 --> 00:20:51 well for what we're trying to do.
00:20:51 --> 00:20:56 And what was really great at that time for me going into Ember Cattle
00:20:56 --> 00:21:05 Company with this set of cattle was that I had my, I guess my level or my
00:21:05 --> 00:21:07 standard for my cattle genetics, I.
00:21:09 --> 00:21:14 I think is, it was as a specific level and I wanted to make
00:21:14 --> 00:21:15 sure that all my cattle met it.
00:21:15 --> 00:21:23 And so honestly, when I first started into the ECC business, I did a,
00:21:23 --> 00:21:25 I did a pretty big call actually.
00:21:25 --> 00:21:26 I was like, you know what?
00:21:26 --> 00:21:29 These animals just aren't working for me.
00:21:29 --> 00:21:33 I, it, whether it's at ma mainly attitude issues.
00:21:33 --> 00:21:38 I had some, some spirited ones in there that certain people would tolerate.
00:21:38 --> 00:21:43 I, and I just didn't because I, you know, being, a lot of times being out
00:21:43 --> 00:21:46 there by myself having to tag a calf or something, that's really when they
00:21:46 --> 00:21:47 show their, show their two sides.
00:21:47 --> 00:21:48 Cal: Right.
00:21:48 --> 00:21:48 It
00:21:48 --> 00:21:51 Becky: You know, I didn't wanna have to worry about about that.
00:21:51 --> 00:21:55 And, and, and it just, it makes it really unenjoyable when you're moving
00:21:55 --> 00:21:58 cows every day that you get kind of, I call 'em the stupid ones because
00:21:58 --> 00:21:59 I'm like, you just acting silly.
00:21:59 --> 00:22:01 You don't need to be acting that way.
00:22:01 --> 00:22:07 So when I first started a lot of, I did a pretty big call of those animals and I
00:22:07 --> 00:22:14 kind of did a, a soft call later on during the preg check season that second year.
00:22:14 --> 00:22:22 And I also wanna mention that as I started into my new Ember Cattle company business
00:22:22 --> 00:22:30 my boyfriend at the time now fiance was a, a huge supporter of my farm business,
00:22:30 --> 00:22:34 what the struggles I was going through, and very supportive and, and understanding
00:22:34 --> 00:22:36 and willing to help in any way he could.
00:22:37 --> 00:22:39 And now.
00:22:40 --> 00:22:45 Being too two years into the new business and we did a big call and a
00:22:45 --> 00:22:49 soft call, and our grazing practices have changed the last two years.
00:22:49 --> 00:22:53 Our herd is, is very different than it was just two years ago, even though
00:22:53 --> 00:22:57 I had those foundation genetics that I've been working with for 15 years.
00:22:57 --> 00:23:01 And so really, really happy with where we're at now.
00:23:01 --> 00:23:07 Still have lots a lot of things to, to improve on within my herd genetics.
00:23:07 --> 00:23:11 I think that's a lifelong goal if you're a farmer with cattle or, or any life sock.
00:23:12 --> 00:23:17 And so yeah, but at this point we're really happy with where we're at with our
00:23:17 --> 00:23:24 South poles and yeah, just was happy that we got to kind of go through that process.
00:23:24 --> 00:23:27 'cause it, it, it allowed us to have a lot of changes happen
00:23:27 --> 00:23:28 those first couple years.
00:23:28 --> 00:23:28 And that was a big
00:23:29 --> 00:23:29 Cal: Oh yeah.
00:23:29 --> 00:23:30 Becky: was a big change for us.
00:23:31 --> 00:23:32 Cal: Yeah.
00:23:32 --> 00:23:37 And an opportunity to do a reset on some of those genetics and taking that hard
00:23:37 --> 00:23:42 line saying, this is not the base I want for, for my future herd opportunity.
00:23:42 --> 00:23:44 I do think you may have missed opportunity.
00:23:44 --> 00:23:48 You all could have had a cattle draft day video where your dad
00:23:48 --> 00:23:50 was drafting and you were drafting
00:23:50 --> 00:23:51 Becky: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:23:52 --> 00:23:53 Cal: a whole set up.
00:23:53 --> 00:23:53 Yeah.
00:23:54 --> 00:23:55 Becky: That would've been good
00:23:56 --> 00:23:57 Cal: Yeah.
00:23:57 --> 00:23:57 Becky: and everything.
00:23:59 --> 00:23:59 Cal: Right.
00:23:59 --> 00:23:59 Becky: Yeah,
00:24:00 --> 00:24:03 Cal: You, you mentioned there your grazing practices have changed.
00:24:04 --> 00:24:06 How have they changed and why?
00:24:06 --> 00:24:11 Becky: So, again, for me the one thing that has never changed for my farming
00:24:11 --> 00:24:14 business is I wanna be low input.
00:24:14 --> 00:24:19 I wanna do more with less, and that can mean all kinds of different
00:24:19 --> 00:24:20 things to different people.
00:24:20 --> 00:24:24 And, and hopefully as we talk, I'll, I'll keep explaining what that means for us.
00:24:24 --> 00:24:25 But I.
00:24:26 --> 00:24:28 For grazing purposes.
00:24:28 --> 00:24:32 In the last two years, I was doing more of like once a day
00:24:32 --> 00:24:34 moves, once every two day moves.
00:24:34 --> 00:24:38 And the last two years we have upped it to twice a day moves.
00:24:38 --> 00:24:39 And I know
00:24:40 --> 00:24:42 some people might think that's overkill.
00:24:42 --> 00:24:43 Some people might think that's not enough.
00:24:44 --> 00:24:48 You know, two last, last year for sure, twice a day moves has,
00:24:48 --> 00:24:49 has worked really well for us.
00:24:50 --> 00:24:55 And it's also allowed us to do that soft call later on because the Cadillac
00:24:55 --> 00:24:57 couldn't handle the twice a day moves.
00:24:58 --> 00:25:00 They, they ended up falling out, you know?
00:25:00 --> 00:25:02 And, and I was okay with that.
00:25:02 --> 00:25:04 That's kind of what I wanted to do.
00:25:04 --> 00:25:06 You know, kit Faroh has this great.
00:25:07 --> 00:25:12 Quote that says not calling at least 10% of your herd means
00:25:12 --> 00:25:13 you're not pushing 'em hard enough.
00:25:13 --> 00:25:18 You know, and I know that's really hard to even think about, but we try not to
00:25:18 --> 00:25:21 prop our kettle up with, with anything.
00:25:21 --> 00:25:24 And this past year we got hot and dry during the summertime,
00:25:24 --> 00:25:26 like we always usually do.
00:25:27 --> 00:25:31 And it looked like, it looked like the the, the west out here.
00:25:31 --> 00:25:32 Everything was brown.
00:25:32 --> 00:25:33 Dried, crispy.
00:25:33 --> 00:25:36 And we kept plugging 'em through those twice a day moves.
00:25:36 --> 00:25:38 Sometimes they didn't have the nicest forge.
00:25:39 --> 00:25:43 And we kept asking them to do more and more with what we gave 'em.
00:25:44 --> 00:25:47 Sometimes they had great forge and they were being spoiled.
00:25:48 --> 00:25:54 but you know, with that, moving them, you know, we were, we were.
00:25:54 --> 00:25:59 Slowing down the herd, but moving them at a faster pace, like more times a day.
00:26:00 --> 00:26:03 And for the most part, most of the herd was fine with it, but there were
00:26:03 --> 00:26:06 a couple that just didn't read back and they ended up calling themselves.
00:26:06 --> 00:26:09 But so that was the biggest change.
00:26:09 --> 00:26:13 And, and again, having been to help me implement the twice a day moves
00:26:13 --> 00:26:17 has been instrumental because I tried that in years past by myself
00:26:17 --> 00:26:18 and I would just always burn out.
00:26:18 --> 00:26:19 I would just burn out.
00:26:19 --> 00:26:22 Trying to do a couple aside part, part-time jobs and moving cows
00:26:22 --> 00:26:25 twice, twice a day was just a lot.
00:26:26 --> 00:26:30 But having his help is, has been instrumental to making that that happen.
00:26:30 --> 00:26:34 And, and we kind of, we, you know, we usually set up the paddocks in
00:26:34 --> 00:26:38 the morning move them in the morning, make a paddock for the evening move,
00:26:38 --> 00:26:42 and then in the evening time we'll put on our running shoes and run out
00:26:42 --> 00:26:45 to the cows and kind of make it like an exercise at the same time for us.
00:26:46 --> 00:26:46 Cal: Oh yes.
00:26:46 --> 00:26:49 Becky: To go move cows and yeah.
00:26:49 --> 00:26:51 So, so that's been great.
00:26:51 --> 00:26:55 And, you know, the, the decent breed back only a few fell out.
00:26:56 --> 00:27:01 And again, just asking them to do more with less.
00:27:01 --> 00:27:07 And you know, one thing too that we changed this past year was because we
00:27:07 --> 00:27:12 were tightening them down into smaller paddock sizes and moving them more often,
00:27:12 --> 00:27:15 which the cows actually really love.
00:27:15 --> 00:27:17 You know, as you know, cows love to move.
00:27:17 --> 00:27:17 They're, they're
00:27:18 --> 00:27:19 excited when they see you
00:27:19 --> 00:27:20 Cal: Oh, they're mad when they don't
00:27:20 --> 00:27:21 Becky: Yes.
00:27:21 --> 00:27:23 They start falling, like, move us.
00:27:24 --> 00:27:28 But with that, we didn't, we have decent water points.
00:27:28 --> 00:27:31 We have a lot of Richie four ball troughs throughout the farm.
00:27:31 --> 00:27:31 Cal: Oh
00:27:32 --> 00:27:35 Becky: But one side of the farm is kind of flat and rolling, and the
00:27:35 --> 00:27:37 other side is very, very steep hills.
00:27:37 --> 00:27:40 Like we live here next to the, like I'm looking out my window now
00:27:40 --> 00:27:41 looking at the Blue Ridge mountains.
00:27:41 --> 00:27:44 So we're kind of very close to the mountains here in Virginia.
00:27:44 --> 00:27:50 And we, we didn't have water at the top of the hills and so we were thinking we're
00:27:50 --> 00:27:55 gonna have like these little temporary little out points with hose and water
00:27:55 --> 00:27:57 trops to get 'em to the tops of the hills.
00:27:57 --> 00:28:01 And our well system just wouldn't push it to the top of the hills.
00:28:01 --> 00:28:03 They're just too, too steep, too big.
00:28:04 --> 00:28:07 So one thing we ended up doing was you know, we have neighbors that
00:28:07 --> 00:28:12 live on the tops of the hills, and so we traded them beef for water this
00:28:12 --> 00:28:15 past summer, which worked out great.
00:28:15 --> 00:28:18 One of our neighbors, you know, he was kind of like, I don't like,
00:28:18 --> 00:28:21 yeah, I guess I'll do that, but like, how much water is it gonna be?
00:28:21 --> 00:28:22 And I
00:28:22 --> 00:28:22 was like.
00:28:22 --> 00:28:24 Honestly, I don't know.
00:28:24 --> 00:28:28 So we put a little water meter on his outside spigot on his house and
00:28:28 --> 00:28:33 ran a hose across his yard to the, to our pasture, put up a stock tank, and
00:28:33 --> 00:28:35 drank off of that for a couple weeks.
00:28:35 --> 00:28:37 And it worked out wonderful.
00:28:37 --> 00:28:39 They didn't use hardly any water, but we ended up trading him.
00:28:40 --> 00:28:43 You know, we were like, put a dollar number on it and we traded on beef for it.
00:28:43 --> 00:28:45 And that worked out great.
00:28:45 --> 00:28:48 And that was just, you know, one thing that we were trying to, like,
00:28:49 --> 00:28:52 you don't know until you, you try these things and we didn't know
00:28:52 --> 00:28:55 if we could get the water where it needed to be, and the answer was no.
00:28:55 --> 00:28:58 But we kind of worked around it and, and so, yeah.
00:28:58 --> 00:29:01 Cal: But I, I love that solution out of the box thinking.
00:29:02 --> 00:29:02 I don't know.
00:29:02 --> 00:29:06 Are you gonna credit Ben with that or is that, was that your idea?
00:29:06 --> 00:29:09 It was, I think great thinking to try a different path there.
00:29:10 --> 00:29:10 Becky: Yeah.
00:29:10 --> 00:29:15 No, it's, it's, yeah, it's been, it's been great.
00:29:15 --> 00:29:17 Again, having someone to bounce ideas off of.
00:29:17 --> 00:29:20 I think we, we come to a lot of ideas because we like go back and forth with
00:29:20 --> 00:29:23 each other a lot about this is a problem.
00:29:23 --> 00:29:24 He's very pragmatic.
00:29:24 --> 00:29:28 He's, he's retired from the Navy, so he can, he knows how to get stuff done.
00:29:29 --> 00:29:32 I'm a dreamer, so I always come up with all the ideas and then he's like,
00:29:32 --> 00:29:36 let's implement this one, because this one seems like it would be a good one.
00:29:36 --> 00:29:37 And I've just
00:29:37 --> 00:29:39 come up with more ideas.
00:29:39 --> 00:29:41 So, that partnership works out really well.
00:29:42 --> 00:29:43 Cal: Oh yeah.
00:29:43 --> 00:29:43 Yeah,
00:29:44 --> 00:29:48 Now do you, you or him work off the farm still yet, or are you both on the farm?
00:29:48 --> 00:29:53 Becky: no, that's another, that's another big, big thing that we both
00:29:53 --> 00:29:56 live and work on the farm full time.
00:29:56 --> 00:30:01 So, you know, I was in getting ready for this podcast.
00:30:01 --> 00:30:01 I was like, what?
00:30:01 --> 00:30:04 I was like, what are we gonna talk, I'm gonna talk to Cal about?
00:30:04 --> 00:30:09 Like, and we were kind of discussing the last couple of years and one
00:30:09 --> 00:30:13 thing that had, can kind of came up in our conversation was kind of our
00:30:13 --> 00:30:17 lifestyle and how it's very different than it was a couple years ago when
00:30:17 --> 00:30:19 he was, you know, full-time Navy.
00:30:19 --> 00:30:20 I didn't know him at that time.
00:30:20 --> 00:30:26 And then I was working three or four part-time jobs plus farming and,
00:30:26 --> 00:30:29 and now decided to do full-time farming.
00:30:29 --> 00:30:33 And that has been great.
00:30:33 --> 00:30:38 And it, and we, we can do it because again, when I started the Ember Cattle
00:30:38 --> 00:30:43 Company business, know, I've been in farming long enough and had enough
00:30:43 --> 00:30:47 assets built up that the farm could.
00:30:47 --> 00:30:48 Pay its way.
00:30:49 --> 00:30:54 And so I, you know, I can afford to pay off the expenses and make
00:30:54 --> 00:30:56 a little bit on top of that.
00:30:56 --> 00:31:03 And but we also live very, very frugally and we raise all of our own pasture
00:31:03 --> 00:31:08 protein, pork, chicken, beef, and we eat a lot of meat in our household as well.
00:31:08 --> 00:31:14 So yeah, it's, it's it's been fun because we are here pretty much all the
00:31:14 --> 00:31:16 time right now, we're in calving season
00:31:17 --> 00:31:23 and this is the first year that I've, I've been able to witness as many calving
00:31:23 --> 00:31:29 sessions as I have, which has been great to actually see it in action and watch,
00:31:29 --> 00:31:32 watch these cows do their, do their thing.
00:31:32 --> 00:31:33 So it's been, it's been great.
00:31:33 --> 00:31:37 It's yeah, we are, we're frugal people so it, we make it work.
00:31:38 --> 00:31:39 But yeah, we're both on the farm.
00:31:41 --> 00:31:42 Cal: Very good.
00:31:42 --> 00:31:45 That's, it's always exciting or to me that you're able to do it,
00:31:45 --> 00:31:47 but it doesn't happen overnight.
00:31:47 --> 00:31:50 So for our listeners who, who's still going to that day job, it,
00:31:51 --> 00:31:52 it took a long time to get there.
00:31:52 --> 00:31:55 It's not something that just happens overnight.
00:31:55 --> 00:31:56 Becky: No, absolutely not.
00:31:57 --> 00:32:02 And again, too, I don't want to not credit my parents that when I
00:32:03 --> 00:32:07 dropped outta college at 19 to pursue a life in agriculture and they were
00:32:07 --> 00:32:10 beyond disappointed in me to do that.
00:32:10 --> 00:32:15 They, you know, after they got over the shock of it they were both very
00:32:15 --> 00:32:22 supportive with me wanting to pursue agriculture and were very, very helpful.
00:32:22 --> 00:32:25 And so I have to say that if my parents hadn't been as helpful as
00:32:25 --> 00:32:30 they were to get me started, you know, I was able to use the family
00:32:30 --> 00:32:32 farm as kind of the starting point.
00:32:33 --> 00:32:33 And.
00:32:34 --> 00:32:39 We grew from there to three more additional farms and you know, we
00:32:39 --> 00:32:42 put a lot of our, our money right back into the farm business and
00:32:42 --> 00:32:43 that's what allowed us to grow.
00:32:44 --> 00:32:50 I do wanna say too, like that was before land prices were what they are today.
00:32:50 --> 00:32:55 And, you know, that is really hard too because like, I wanna expand my,
00:32:55 --> 00:32:59 my farm business already, but with the land prices around here, it's,
00:32:59 --> 00:33:02 it's very difficult to do with with the type of farming we're doing.
00:33:02 --> 00:33:07 But yeah, it took, it took 15 years to even get to the point where I felt like
00:33:07 --> 00:33:16 my cattle genetics were as efficient as they are and to the point where.
00:33:17 --> 00:33:22 I can, I can charge some decent money for my breeding stock.
00:33:22 --> 00:33:26 You know, and I think they're worth every penny, honestly, with the
00:33:26 --> 00:33:29 way prices are cattle today, they are absolutely worth every penny.
00:33:29 --> 00:33:32 But you know, it takes time to do that.
00:33:32 --> 00:33:38 And I know a lot of people see the, the kind of the romanticized idea
00:33:38 --> 00:33:42 of starting a, a farm business and all that stuff, but it takes years.
00:33:42 --> 00:33:44 And like I said at the beginning of the podcast, I didn't take
00:33:45 --> 00:33:47 any income from the farm for 15
00:33:47 --> 00:33:48 Cal: Oh yeah.
00:33:48 --> 00:33:51 Becky: And so I had three or four part-time jobs at,
00:33:51 --> 00:33:52 on the site all the time.
00:33:52 --> 00:33:57 And it wasn't until all this change happened that I kind of decided
00:33:57 --> 00:34:02 that, no, I wanna put all my time and attention into the farm and,
00:34:03 --> 00:34:03 and.
00:34:03 --> 00:34:08 Be okay with living very frugally and not living above your means.
00:34:08 --> 00:34:10 But it can, you can do it.
00:34:10 --> 00:34:11 I think you can.
00:34:11 --> 00:34:12 And there's a lot of opportunity.
00:34:12 --> 00:34:15 I think in the coming years there's gonna be a lot of opportunity for
00:34:15 --> 00:34:20 farmers, especially in kind of the more sustainable, regenerative,
00:34:20 --> 00:34:22 however you wanna term that.
00:34:23 --> 00:34:25 Lower input farming models.
00:34:25 --> 00:34:29 I think there's gonna be some really amazing opportunities for
00:34:29 --> 00:34:33 farmers who want to pursue that type of business moving forward.
00:34:33 --> 00:34:38 You just have to kind of know where to look and be willing to
00:34:38 --> 00:34:43 not say, that doesn't work here, or, or don't try to, you know,
00:34:43 --> 00:34:46 so many people will give excuses.
00:34:47 --> 00:34:48 You can't have excuses.
00:34:48 --> 00:34:50 You just gotta say what's gonna work, you know?
00:34:50 --> 00:34:51 And
00:34:51 --> 00:34:52 that's part of
00:34:52 --> 00:34:53 Cal: Get started on that.
00:34:53 --> 00:34:57 You, you mentioned there that, you know, it took a number of years to get
00:34:57 --> 00:34:59 your grass genetics to where they are.
00:34:59 --> 00:35:05 Were, and then as you started on your, your own farm, you did a big call,
00:35:05 --> 00:35:08 you're really focused on quality.
00:35:08 --> 00:35:13 Talk a little bit about the, the genetics and the goals you have for your cows.
00:35:13 --> 00:35:19 Becky: Yeah, I think my goals are, are at least I, I listen to all the grazing
00:35:19 --> 00:35:24 gurus out there, like, you know, Greg, Judy and Jim Garish and Al Williams
00:35:24 --> 00:35:29 and all those guys and you know, picked up on over the years a lot from them.
00:35:30 --> 00:35:34 And, but also just by trial and error, you know, obviously you
00:35:34 --> 00:35:35 pick up on things over the years.
00:35:36 --> 00:35:39 I have some hard cull standards.
00:35:39 --> 00:35:42 Like there these are, if you don't meet these, you are out.
00:35:42 --> 00:35:48 And then I have some like softer ones that those might be like, if you have too
00:35:48 --> 00:35:51 many of those tick boxes, then you go.
00:35:51 --> 00:35:56 But if you have just one, I might keep you round until I need to do
00:35:56 --> 00:35:59 another call again, and then you're gonna be at the top of the list to go.
00:35:59 --> 00:36:02 Just so that it, it's more economical that way.
00:36:03 --> 00:36:06 So, you know, for like, a lot of, I think I even wrote it down some
00:36:06 --> 00:36:10 of my coal, hard coal standards obviously raise a good calf.
00:36:11 --> 00:36:15 Every year you have to start calving at two years old.
00:36:16 --> 00:36:21 You have to breed back every year and you have to have a pleasant attitude.
00:36:22 --> 00:36:25 And so those are pretty, I I feel like those are pretty standard
00:36:25 --> 00:36:27 for a lot of cow-calf operations.
00:36:27 --> 00:36:31 Um, but to actually follow those.
00:36:32 --> 00:36:35 Is actually harder than you think because you, you have a favorite
00:36:35 --> 00:36:39 cow or a favorite heifer and, and something might happen to that calf
00:36:39 --> 00:36:41 and you're like, well, was it me?
00:36:41 --> 00:36:42 Was it her?
00:36:42 --> 00:36:44 Was it just the luck of the draw?
00:36:44 --> 00:36:45 Maybe I'll give her another chance.
00:36:46 --> 00:36:50 And that's, that's where you as a farmer need to decide where
00:36:50 --> 00:36:52 you're gonna stand on that line.
00:36:52 --> 00:36:58 You know, some of my softer calling standards is like, how quickly do
00:36:58 --> 00:37:00 you slick up during the summertime?
00:37:01 --> 00:37:04 What's your utter condition like fly load?
00:37:04 --> 00:37:05 You know, I've been culling.
00:37:05 --> 00:37:09 I've been culling actually pretty hard for fly load the last seven, eight years.
00:37:09 --> 00:37:12 And that's made a huge difference for me as well.
00:37:12 --> 00:37:16 Weenie weights, percentages based off of the moms.
00:37:17 --> 00:37:19 That's a, a softer one obviously.
00:37:19 --> 00:37:24 I, it's great when a, a cow can wean 60% of her, her body weight
00:37:24 --> 00:37:27 of a calf every year, and she looks great and the calf looks great.
00:37:27 --> 00:37:30 You know, that, that shows me that she's doing more with less.
00:37:30 --> 00:37:34 And that kind of is one of the points that I, you know, I, I focus on, but
00:37:34 --> 00:37:36 I don't wanna go too extremes either.
00:37:36 --> 00:37:39 So I'm not gonna sit there and just try to have a whole herd that I like, I like
00:37:39 --> 00:37:46 my middle of the ground mediocre cows that aren't too extreme on any one side because
00:37:46 --> 00:37:49 again, you start chasing those extremes and you, you can start having problems.
00:37:49 --> 00:37:53 So again, having a good calf every year.
00:37:53 --> 00:37:54 Starting that too.
00:37:54 --> 00:37:58 Being able, obviously to handle my grazing structure and environment.
00:37:58 --> 00:38:03 And some of, I heard now they're, you know, we're five, six generations in,
00:38:03 --> 00:38:08 so they've, epigenetically are just doing really good on my farm because
00:38:08 --> 00:38:11 they've been here and their families have been here for so long that
00:38:11 --> 00:38:11 Cal: Oh yeah.
00:38:12 --> 00:38:15 Becky: They've, you know, they're just, they're just doing their thing out there.
00:38:15 --> 00:38:17 They're just cranking right along.
00:38:19 --> 00:38:23 Cal: One thing, Becky, I hear some discussion on, and I just had this
00:38:23 --> 00:38:28 discussion just a few weeks ago on the episode, was that Kevin, at 24 months,
00:38:29 --> 00:38:33 you know, growing up my dad's a big believer in the last or philosophy, which
00:38:34 --> 00:38:38 there's, there's similar philosophies out there that follow basically the
00:38:38 --> 00:38:42 same principles, but that was my first exposure they kept at 24 months.
00:38:42 --> 00:38:47 Do you find you have any trouble getting those, those, heifers to
00:38:47 --> 00:38:49 breed on time and ke it 24 months?
00:38:50 --> 00:38:54 And are you doing anything to help 'em get there or is it all grass?
00:38:55 --> 00:38:55 Becky: Yeah.
00:38:56 --> 00:38:56 Yep.
00:38:57 --> 00:39:01 I've always as long as I've been in the cattle business, have
00:39:01 --> 00:39:03 asked her girls to have it too.
00:39:04 --> 00:39:05 And I've heard.
00:39:06 --> 00:39:10 Pros and cons of cabinet two versus two and a half or three.
00:39:10 --> 00:39:14 For us, cabinet two seems to work.
00:39:15 --> 00:39:20 It's not, so during the preg checks, during the fall when we do preg checks
00:39:20 --> 00:39:27 out of my yearlings that I've exposed to a bull, I'll usually get 80 to 85% bread,
00:39:28 --> 00:39:32 I think is a pretty normal take rate.
00:39:32 --> 00:39:36 And I remember when, when we first got into South poles and South polls are
00:39:36 --> 00:39:39 smaller framed animal, they're, you know, about average a thousand pounds.
00:39:39 --> 00:39:42 And the vet kept telling me, these animals aren't br, these are not bred.
00:39:43 --> 00:39:44 I'm like, well, they're just smaller animals.
00:39:44 --> 00:39:46 So it's, it's fine.
00:39:46 --> 00:39:49 But, and then, and then, so I'll, I'll tell you, I'll share with
00:39:49 --> 00:39:51 you and your listeners when.
00:39:51 --> 00:39:54 Things don't go great all the time.
00:39:54 --> 00:39:57 This, this calving season hasn't been the greatest one for us.
00:39:58 --> 00:40:02 Some of our first calving heifers didn't perform like I wanted.
00:40:03 --> 00:40:08 And whether that was one, I think was due to the, the extremely cold temperatures
00:40:08 --> 00:40:12 of calving in March 1st here in Virginia, which I think I'm gonna start
00:40:12 --> 00:40:14 pushing back here 'cause that was just.
00:40:15 --> 00:40:16 Not fun.
00:40:17 --> 00:40:18 And sometimes they do have issues.
00:40:18 --> 00:40:21 You know, first having heifers can be a wild card.
00:40:21 --> 00:40:21 They really can.
00:40:22 --> 00:40:29 But for the most part, out of those 80 to 85% of those heifers this year
00:40:29 --> 00:40:32 they've dropped the calf unassisted.
00:40:32 --> 00:40:34 I've been watching 'em through the binoculars.
00:40:34 --> 00:40:38 The second that calf hits the ground, they go from being their kind of curious
00:40:38 --> 00:40:40 yearly self to immediate mom modes.
00:40:40 --> 00:40:43 They go from maiden to mother really fast.
00:40:43 --> 00:40:45 And it's been great to watch that.
00:40:45 --> 00:40:49 And it's been it just, it sometimes brings tears to my eye 'cause it's
00:40:49 --> 00:40:51 just, it's a very emotional time.
00:40:51 --> 00:40:55 But it's, it's amazing that they, they go through that transition so quickly.
00:40:55 --> 00:41:01 But again, first calf, heifers, sometimes I've had 'em in the past reject a calf.
00:41:01 --> 00:41:05 I've had 'em just have a problem with having the calf in general.
00:41:05 --> 00:41:10 And then, you know, for me this year I, you know, I kept, I was getting a little
00:41:10 --> 00:41:13 disappointed 'cause it happened a couple of times with some heifers and I was like,
00:41:13 --> 00:41:16 oh, what, what did I do wrong last year?
00:41:16 --> 00:41:19 Like, what did I do wrong this winter?
00:41:19 --> 00:41:21 Or, you know, what did, what could I have done better?
00:41:21 --> 00:41:26 But ultimately I kind of came to this realization or belief that, you know,
00:41:26 --> 00:41:30 it, it's also Mother Nature calling out the ones that just aren't fit.
00:41:30 --> 00:41:33 And so those girls gonna go get finished out for some
00:41:33 --> 00:41:34 really beautiful nutrient dense
00:41:35 --> 00:41:36 beef for somebody.
00:41:37 --> 00:41:39 And I, I don't give those cows another chance.
00:41:39 --> 00:41:40 I just don't.
00:41:40 --> 00:41:45 And the ones that caved and had 'em beautifully and went straight to
00:41:45 --> 00:41:50 mom mode they stay in the herd and those maternal traits will hopefully
00:41:50 --> 00:41:52 pass on and pass on and pass on.
00:41:52 --> 00:41:56 And so again, I'm willing to start them calving at two.
00:41:57 --> 00:42:00 You know, and whether you have those problems at a, from a 3-year-old,
00:42:00 --> 00:42:01 I know I'm sure you do as well.
00:42:02 --> 00:42:03 But for us.
00:42:03 --> 00:42:06 It just, it still just makes economic sense to start calving
00:42:06 --> 00:42:09 too and to get them going.
00:42:09 --> 00:42:13 It's usually, you know, year, year three and four when they're, you
00:42:13 --> 00:42:14 know, they, they calve the first year.
00:42:14 --> 00:42:19 Now they gotta get bread back, raise a calf and finish growing.
00:42:19 --> 00:42:23 That's can sometimes be a year that they, they call themselves out as well.
00:42:23 --> 00:42:23 But,
00:42:24 --> 00:42:29 again, I'm, I'm trying really hard to just create some genetics that are
00:42:29 --> 00:42:34 just, that are just thrifty and I, I don't supplement them with anything.
00:42:34 --> 00:42:37 They do all this on Stockpile Forge.
00:42:37 --> 00:42:41 If I have anything left by the end of March or beginning of March.
00:42:41 --> 00:42:43 And, purchased hay.
00:42:43 --> 00:42:47 I, we, we make a little bit of alfalfa gras hay during the year,
00:42:47 --> 00:42:51 and we might give them a bale of that every once in a while if we have it.
00:42:51 --> 00:42:54 But even this, this next year we're, we're talking about not even doing that anymore.
00:42:55 --> 00:42:58 And taking, taking that last kind of little crutch out from under them and,
00:42:58 --> 00:43:01 and, and asking, asking 'em a lot.
00:43:01 --> 00:43:05 But again, you know, if, if you're not calling some of your animals out
00:43:05 --> 00:43:07 or they're not calling themselves out, you know, are you, are you
00:43:07 --> 00:43:08 pushing your animals hard enough?
00:43:08 --> 00:43:11 Are you creating better genetics?
00:43:11 --> 00:43:14 Or are you just kind of maintaining and are you working for your
00:43:14 --> 00:43:16 cattle versus them working for you?
00:43:16 --> 00:43:19 And I'm, we're trying really hard to just do more with less.
00:43:21 --> 00:43:24 Cal: You know, it takes that pressure to get the diamonds
00:43:24 --> 00:43:28 and, and I think it's, it's important to hold your standards up
00:43:28 --> 00:43:31 there, especially when you're in a position to sell seed, seed stock.
00:43:31 --> 00:43:33 It's so important you do it.
00:43:33 --> 00:43:38 And I know as we all, like you mentioned earlier in the podcast, you are in growth
00:43:38 --> 00:43:42 mode for a long time when you were farming with your dad, and I know anytime you're
00:43:42 --> 00:43:47 in the growth mode or you're trying to expand, it's really difficult to apply
00:43:47 --> 00:43:50 that pressure because you're like, I need every animal that'll produce.
00:43:51 --> 00:43:56 But if you, if you prop up one, she has a couple heifers and in a few
00:43:56 --> 00:43:59 years you got three, you're propping up rather than just that one.
00:43:59 --> 00:43:59 So.
00:44:00 --> 00:44:04 I I love the early hard coaling of them, or in my opinion,
00:44:04 --> 00:44:05 that's what we should be doing.
00:44:07 --> 00:44:07 Becky: Yep.
00:44:08 --> 00:44:09 Cal: Becky, let's change.
00:44:09 --> 00:44:12 Well, actually before we change gears to the overgrazing section,
00:44:13 --> 00:44:17 you had mentioned on the last podcast about maybe at some point adding
00:44:17 --> 00:44:19 some sheep in or some other species.
00:44:19 --> 00:44:23 Have you considered doing that and is it on the horizon?
00:44:24 --> 00:44:29 Becky: Yeah, we did consider it again, I think and again, I, I'm never, I
00:44:29 --> 00:44:32 never wanna say never on, on the sheep.
00:44:32 --> 00:44:36 'cause we did have sheep years ago and we surely loved the way
00:44:36 --> 00:44:38 that they graze with the cattle.
00:44:38 --> 00:44:40 And we, we ran them together.
00:44:40 --> 00:44:44 During the lambing season, we did separate them, but we had such a, we
00:44:44 --> 00:44:45 ended up getting, getting rid of 'em.
00:44:45 --> 00:44:50 'cause we had such a coyote, a lot of coyote pressure on those lambs.
00:44:50 --> 00:44:54 And so we had 'em for about eight years and, and finally gave 'em up, which
00:44:55 --> 00:44:57 first still kind of sat about sometimes.
00:44:57 --> 00:45:01 And I, and I also consider it again 'cause I, I did love the
00:45:01 --> 00:45:03 way they work together, but.
00:45:04 --> 00:45:09 Just really focusing on keeping, keeping the girls going and really
00:45:09 --> 00:45:12 focusing on, on what I have right now.
00:45:12 --> 00:45:17 Wanting to do that really, really well before when I start getting a little
00:45:17 --> 00:45:22 bored with that, then I might convince Ben that sheep are, are a good one.
00:45:22 --> 00:45:25 I don't know if he's too convinced with the sheep, but I might
00:45:25 --> 00:45:26 work on him there a little bit.
00:45:26 --> 00:45:27 We'll see.
00:45:27 --> 00:45:28 We'll see how it goes.
00:45:28 --> 00:45:32 Just try and do, do what we're doing really well first.
00:45:33 --> 00:45:35 Cal: Yeah, I, I think that's a great way I go.
00:45:35 --> 00:45:38 I struggle with, sometimes I wanna do this, sometimes I wanna
00:45:38 --> 00:45:40 do that, and it, it divides my
00:45:40 --> 00:45:40 attention.
00:45:41 --> 00:45:45 But if you can focus that attention on one area, you can make greater gains than
00:45:45 --> 00:45:46 you can if you've got divided attention.
00:45:47 --> 00:45:47 Becky: Yep.
00:45:48 --> 00:45:48 Absolutely.
00:45:49 --> 00:45:49 Cal: Let's
00:45:49 --> 00:45:52 transition to the overgrazing topic topic about your farm.
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00:46:50 --> 00:46:53 Cal: We're gonna dive in deeper on, and today we're gonna, we're
00:46:53 --> 00:46:54 gonna talk about dung beetles.
00:46:55 --> 00:47:00 We have not, as, I think, backed as past the episodes.
00:47:00 --> 00:47:02 You know, I'm sure dung beetles have been brought up, but we
00:47:02 --> 00:47:04 really haven't covered them.
00:47:05 --> 00:47:08 So maybe to get started, let's just get everyone up to speed.
00:47:08 --> 00:47:10 What is a dung beetle?
00:47:10 --> 00:47:11 Becky: Yeah.
00:47:11 --> 00:47:18 Well, I will preface, I am no expert, but I, I have enjoyed diving deeper
00:47:18 --> 00:47:23 into self-study on these little cre creatures the last few years.
00:47:23 --> 00:47:25 And I've given a couple of talks on them as well.
00:47:25 --> 00:47:26 I think they're actually on my YouTube channel.
00:47:27 --> 00:47:33 So if people want to learn a little more about Dung Beatles and, and their
00:47:33 --> 00:47:37 benefits I invite them to my YouTube channel to look at those videos as well.
00:47:37 --> 00:47:37 But I.
00:47:39 --> 00:47:46 Bes are an amazing little insect that I feel like has gained popularity
00:47:46 --> 00:47:50 the last few years more than they have in the past, which is great.
00:47:50 --> 00:47:54 Because, you know, for farming, especially in this type of way of
00:47:54 --> 00:47:59 low, low input farming, where I, I don't want to depend on outside
00:47:59 --> 00:48:03 inputs to make my farm productive.
00:48:04 --> 00:48:07 D beetles is a absolute just must have.
00:48:08 --> 00:48:12 And it wasn't until a couple years ago that I actually started even looking at
00:48:12 --> 00:48:13 my dunk pats to see if they were there.
00:48:14 --> 00:48:18 D beetles are amazing little insect that come in different sizes.
00:48:18 --> 00:48:21 They can be the size of like a little pin prick, like the, the
00:48:21 --> 00:48:27 tip of a pen to the size of your thumb really, or your thumbnail.
00:48:27 --> 00:48:29 And I've seen all those different.
00:48:29 --> 00:48:33 Shapes and sizes in my own mere pats here in Virginia,
00:48:33 --> 00:48:34 depending on the time of year.
00:48:35 --> 00:48:39 And for the most part, now every species kind of has a different
00:48:39 --> 00:48:41 season that they excel in.
00:48:41 --> 00:48:45 Some of them are more spring, some are more fall, some are more summer.
00:48:45 --> 00:48:48 Even during the winter, you'll still find them in your mere pats
00:48:48 --> 00:48:49 depending on where, where you live.
00:48:50 --> 00:48:53 But they do enjoy more activity during warmer temperatures.
00:48:53 --> 00:48:58 So springtime right now I was looking at some pets the other day in the field and
00:48:58 --> 00:49:01 they're already, there's some species already out there doing their thing.
00:49:02 --> 00:49:08 But essentially for the most part dung beetles will fly around.
00:49:08 --> 00:49:11 They're very sensitive to the smell of manure.
00:49:11 --> 00:49:12 Obviously.
00:49:12 --> 00:49:14 That is what is their fancy.
00:49:15 --> 00:49:20 And they will fly into a pat of usually freshly laid manure.
00:49:20 --> 00:49:24 That's kind of juicy and sloppy is, is what they like.
00:49:24 --> 00:49:27 They don't like the old mature ones that have like the dried cap on 'em.
00:49:27 --> 00:49:28 Those are, those are past their prime.
00:49:28 --> 00:49:33 They want the fresh ones and that smell attracts them to it.
00:49:33 --> 00:49:36 A lot of the movement they do is at nighttime as well.
00:49:36 --> 00:49:39 And you'll actually see a lot of dung beetles at if you have any
00:49:39 --> 00:49:42 like night dust, dawn lights on your porch or something, look,
00:49:42 --> 00:49:45 look there in the mornings or in the evenings, you'll actually see
00:49:45 --> 00:49:46 probably a lot more beetles there.
00:49:46 --> 00:49:49 And they'll actually be dung beetles if you have 'em in your area.
00:49:50 --> 00:49:52 But they'll come find a pet.
00:49:53 --> 00:49:56 They enjoy this, the liquid slurry part as the adult don Bele
00:49:57 --> 00:49:59 to actually consume for food.
00:49:59 --> 00:50:04 And what they usually do is they find a mate depending on the time of year and
00:50:04 --> 00:50:10 during that mating time they will start to tunnel down through the manure pat.
00:50:10 --> 00:50:12 Now some species, there's three different types.
00:50:12 --> 00:50:16 There's dwellers, tunnelers, and rollers.
00:50:16 --> 00:50:19 And usually when we think of dung beetles, we kinda envision like
00:50:19 --> 00:50:24 those big dung beetles that roll dung balls from their back feet in Africa.
00:50:25 --> 00:50:27 And we do have rollers here in the United States as well.
00:50:28 --> 00:50:31 I've actually never seen one, but I, I, I hear they're, they're around.
00:50:32 --> 00:50:38 I usually see dwellers and tunnelers and dwellers usually tunnel down
00:50:38 --> 00:50:41 within the manure pat itself, they tend to be a little bit of
00:50:41 --> 00:50:43 the smaller size dung beetles.
00:50:43 --> 00:50:47 And they will create these little tunnels and these little brood chambers
00:50:47 --> 00:50:50 where the female will deposit her eggs.
00:50:51 --> 00:50:56 And when the the eggs hatch, they have all this manure that's kind of around them.
00:50:56 --> 00:50:59 And if the parents pack some manure balls in the brood chambers for
00:50:59 --> 00:51:01 them to eat that's what they eat.
00:51:01 --> 00:51:05 And then tunnelers, they go a little bit further in their activity where
00:51:05 --> 00:51:09 they actually tunnel down through the meniere pat down into the soil.
00:51:09 --> 00:51:13 And it could be a couple of centimeters, couple inches, and it could be even
00:51:13 --> 00:51:17 feet, like depending on the species of dung beetle and how big they are.
00:51:17 --> 00:51:19 Usually the bigger ones will go deeper.
00:51:20 --> 00:51:25 And they will create these tunnels and chambers and again, deposit their eggs.
00:51:25 --> 00:51:30 And usually within those deep down tunnels, the parents will roll up these
00:51:30 --> 00:51:35 balls and shove them full of these tunnels and brewed chambers full of manure.
00:51:35 --> 00:51:37 And that's when the eggs hatched.
00:51:37 --> 00:51:41 The larva actually eating those dung beetle balls.
00:51:41 --> 00:51:44 Some of them are laid within a ball so that they just come out
00:51:44 --> 00:51:46 in, in the dung ball and eat that.
00:51:47 --> 00:51:52 And not only is that another great way of, of taking, utilizing the manure
00:51:52 --> 00:51:57 on top and, and putting it to the soil so that pests like flies and stuff
00:51:57 --> 00:52:01 can't also lay all their, their young in that freshly laid manure pets.
00:52:01 --> 00:52:06 So the activity of the, the Don Beetles helps with those pests species, but
00:52:06 --> 00:52:11 it's also taking all that really great nutrients especially that nitrogen
00:52:11 --> 00:52:15 that's very volatile, that likes to just go off into a gasier state.
00:52:15 --> 00:52:20 They're putting it down into the ground where usually sometimes 30
00:52:20 --> 00:52:24 to 40% of the dung that they pack into the ground, it never gets
00:52:24 --> 00:52:27 consumed by the dung beetle larbi.
00:52:27 --> 00:52:31 So it's just fertilizer in the ground waiting to be utilized by other
00:52:31 --> 00:52:36 microbes that are gonna break it down and release it for your plants to use.
00:52:36 --> 00:52:38 And so it's a really.
00:52:38 --> 00:52:43 Incredible little, little creature that can bring so much, I call it like kind
00:52:43 --> 00:52:48 of passive income because every time I look at 'em in your pat and it's full
00:52:48 --> 00:52:53 of dung beetles, they can move a lot of dung if you have a good population.
00:52:54 --> 00:52:57 And all of that is just going straight into your soils.
00:52:57 --> 00:53:03 And so I know there's also been a lot of talk about like what do our insecticides
00:53:03 --> 00:53:05 or our pesticides or even our.
00:53:06 --> 00:53:09 Our herbicides doing to our insect populations.
00:53:09 --> 00:53:15 We know that for the bees, the honeybees is having a massive decline in population
00:53:15 --> 00:53:19 right now because of all the different sprays and just the different farming
00:53:19 --> 00:53:25 styles that are taking place is not very pro proliferating for the B population.
00:53:25 --> 00:53:27 And dunk beetles are kind of very similar.
00:53:27 --> 00:53:30 A lot of those insecticides are not good for them.
00:53:30 --> 00:53:35 Certain ones I think are less abrasive to them than others.
00:53:36 --> 00:53:40 But I, I would be safe to say that, you know, if if you can't, if you
00:53:40 --> 00:53:43 don't use 'em, that's probably gonna be the most beneficial for your,
00:53:43 --> 00:53:45 your dung beo populations for sure.
00:53:46 --> 00:53:50 Cal: When you are looking at a manure pile, how do you
00:53:50 --> 00:53:51 know there's dung beetles?
00:53:51 --> 00:53:52 Becky: Yeah.
00:53:52 --> 00:53:59 So, but usually what I like to do is if I'm just visually looking at a new-ish
00:53:59 --> 00:54:03 when you're pat, I'm saying new-ish, like it was laid, within the last 24 or
00:54:03 --> 00:54:06 48 hours, depending on where you're at.
00:54:06 --> 00:54:12 If you see holes, little holes in the top of your near pat, that's a telltale
00:54:12 --> 00:54:14 sign that you have dung beetles in it.
00:54:14 --> 00:54:18 If you wanna dive further into seeing what kind of dung beetles, you can
00:54:18 --> 00:54:23 take a stick or your foot and just kind of smear the top of that manure
00:54:23 --> 00:54:29 pat across the soil and see if you witness any of the beetles within it.
00:54:29 --> 00:54:33 Again, some of 'em are itty bitty, and you'll have to just kinda
00:54:33 --> 00:54:34 sit there and you smear it open.
00:54:34 --> 00:54:36 You kind of just sit there and you watch for a couple minutes.
00:54:36 --> 00:54:39 Sometimes it takes a few minutes for them to get going if you
00:54:39 --> 00:54:41 don't have a high density of 'em.
00:54:41 --> 00:54:46 But if you have a lot, you'll sometimes even see them in your path moving itself.
00:54:46 --> 00:54:51 And so, yeah, tho that's the easiest way to know if you've got dung beetles.
00:54:51 --> 00:54:56 Another w great way is if it is maybe a couple more days older, you'll sometimes
00:54:56 --> 00:55:01 see little mounds of freshly excavated dirt next to the manure pad itself.
00:55:02 --> 00:55:04 And sometimes you'll see a, a tunnel.
00:55:04 --> 00:55:09 I know a couple falls ago there's a beetle called the rainbow scab, which is
00:55:09 --> 00:55:11 this beautiful, beautiful dung beetle.
00:55:11 --> 00:55:17 It's about the size of your thumbnail, and they come in all these different colors.
00:55:17 --> 00:55:18 That's why they're called rainbow dung beetles.
00:55:19 --> 00:55:22 They actually sell 'em pet shops, I think, 'cause of all the
00:55:22 --> 00:55:23 different colors they come in.
00:55:23 --> 00:55:27 And the males will have one singular large horn.
00:55:28 --> 00:55:32 So unlike cows the males in dunk beetles have a horn.
00:55:32 --> 00:55:34 Sometimes they have one horn, sometimes they have two horns.
00:55:35 --> 00:55:37 And then the females don't have horns at all.
00:55:37 --> 00:55:40 And so that's one way you can identify if it's a male or a female.
00:55:41 --> 00:55:44 And so I, I found one of these guys and it was just sitting in
00:55:44 --> 00:55:48 this really great large, big tunnel that has probably a couple inches
00:55:48 --> 00:55:50 of dirt excavated next to it.
00:55:50 --> 00:55:54 And I was so excited to see it 'cause it's such a beautiful dung beetle.
00:55:54 --> 00:55:58 And it's, and it's great too because those tunnels, not only do they get
00:55:58 --> 00:56:02 packed full of eggs and manure, but it also helps aerate the soil and collect
00:56:02 --> 00:56:08 rainwater and all this other stuff and create spaces for other little soil
00:56:08 --> 00:56:11 life to kind of meander around through.
00:56:11 --> 00:56:15 So they just, it's a really, they're, they're such fascinating little creatures.
00:56:15 --> 00:56:20 And if you get the chance and you never have, go out and just watch
00:56:20 --> 00:56:23 your cow pies this summer, during the summertime when it's warmer temperatures
00:56:23 --> 00:56:27 is like the best time to be able to go and witness what they're doing.
00:56:28 --> 00:56:30 They're, you'll, you can learn so much from 'em.
00:56:32 --> 00:56:38 Cal: With, with your young beetles, are they laying the eggs in that manure and
00:56:38 --> 00:56:44 then that's their lifecycle cycle, they're ending, or are they moving to another
00:56:44 --> 00:56:47 pile before their lifecycle is over?
00:56:47 --> 00:56:51 Becky: Yeah, so every species is a little different in like
00:56:51 --> 00:56:52 the length of their life cycle.
00:56:52 --> 00:56:55 Some of 'em are a couple weeks, some of 'em take a couple months.
00:56:55 --> 00:56:58 Some of 'em take a whole year to go through a whole life cycle.
00:56:58 --> 00:57:03 Just depending on when they're laying the eggs and how long it takes, the incubation
00:57:03 --> 00:57:05 and, and the growth of all that.
00:57:05 --> 00:57:11 But usually the lifecycle happens within the one manure pad itself.
00:57:11 --> 00:57:11 And so,
00:57:12 --> 00:57:14 you know, like dragging your pastures.
00:57:14 --> 00:57:17 I know a lot of people, we used to drag our pastures too because we would
00:57:17 --> 00:57:21 see all these manure pads out there and be like, oh, that's fertilizer
00:57:21 --> 00:57:24 that's not being utilized and we need to spread it out over the field.
00:57:25 --> 00:57:31 And the fact of the matter is that each manure pat is its own little ecosystem.
00:57:31 --> 00:57:35 I know right now, this time of year in March when we're recording this, you
00:57:35 --> 00:57:40 can kick over a manure pat that was laid in, let's say December or something.
00:57:40 --> 00:57:42 And it's full of baby earthworms.
00:57:42 --> 00:57:47 Earthworms love to lay their eggs within older maner pats.
00:57:47 --> 00:57:50 And that's, you know, you'll see the robins come in this time of year and
00:57:50 --> 00:57:55 scratch all those meer pats out 'cause they're after those, those earthworms.
00:57:55 --> 00:57:59 And so again, what if you want to utilize those manure pads?
00:57:59 --> 00:58:02 'cause I know every time you look at a manure pad, that's money.
00:58:02 --> 00:58:03 That is money.
00:58:03 --> 00:58:05 You bought it either with grass or you bought it with hay,
00:58:05 --> 00:58:06 it went through the animal.
00:58:06 --> 00:58:09 And that's money fertilizer sitting on your, your soils.
00:58:09 --> 00:58:12 And you wanna incorporate it into your soil as fast as possible
00:58:12 --> 00:58:15 because that nitrogen is gonna start volatilizing and is gone.
00:58:16 --> 00:58:21 And if it sits on top of the soil, it's gonna oxidize in the sun or
00:58:21 --> 00:58:24 it'll run off if you don't have good infiltration in your soil.
00:58:24 --> 00:58:26 So you really wanna incorporate it as fast as possible.
00:58:26 --> 00:58:31 And the best way to do that is obviously with our soil life and microbes.
00:58:31 --> 00:58:37 And so I'm all about just trying to create an environment that they can do that with.
00:58:38 --> 00:58:41 Cal: Yeah, I'm, I'm all the time, I have people saying,
00:58:41 --> 00:58:43 well, should I drag my pastors?
00:58:43 --> 00:58:47 I hear conversations, especially this time of year about dragging your pastors,
00:58:47 --> 00:58:49 and I'm always like, no, don't do that.
00:58:49 --> 00:58:51 Let the manure just set.
00:58:51 --> 00:58:52 It's, it's handling it.
00:58:53 --> 00:58:57 You're disrupting the whole system when you go drag your pastures.
00:58:57 --> 00:59:02 I know it looks good or does it, I mean, to me it doesn't look good because of
00:59:02 --> 00:59:05 course I drive down the road and I see a monoculture because they've sprayed
00:59:05 --> 00:59:06 it and I'm like, that's so awful.
00:59:07 --> 00:59:11 My, Grandparents live up the road from me a couple miles, and they've,
00:59:11 --> 00:59:14 they've dared for years now.
00:59:14 --> 00:59:15 They run beef cattle.
00:59:15 --> 00:59:18 Was talking to her one day, she will be 97 this year,
00:59:19 --> 00:59:21 but I was talking to her one day and she's like, oh, that
00:59:21 --> 00:59:23 pasture next to you is so pretty.
00:59:23 --> 00:59:25 And I'm like, no, it's not.
00:59:25 --> 00:59:29 It's just Bermuda grass that they fertilize and they sprayed every
00:59:29 --> 00:59:31 other living thing out of it.
00:59:32 --> 00:59:35 I think my pastures are beautiful, but, you know,
00:59:36 --> 00:59:36 eats their
00:59:36 --> 00:59:38 Becky: your your per, yeah.
00:59:38 --> 00:59:41 Your perspectives change over time for sure.
00:59:41 --> 00:59:41 And
00:59:41 --> 00:59:42 Cal: it, it does.
00:59:43 --> 00:59:47 And with the, I I have to say, I have seen a few rollers here.
00:59:48 --> 00:59:48 Now.
00:59:48 --> 00:59:52 I can remember as a kid, my brother and I, finding rollers
00:59:53 --> 00:59:55 in the pasture where we lived.
00:59:56 --> 01:00:01 Really small, and I haven't seen them for years and I'm just watching all the time.
01:00:01 --> 01:00:04 You know, we have the other types because I see the hose in the manure.
01:00:05 --> 01:00:10 Dad uses a dewormer on his or a wormer on his cattle.
01:00:10 --> 01:00:11 I do not.
01:00:11 --> 01:00:16 So I think I should see more rollers on land that I'm managing
01:00:16 --> 01:00:18 or where my cattle are running.
01:00:19 --> 01:00:19 Now.
01:00:20 --> 01:00:25 My understanding with the dewormer, it's going to kill those insect side or insects
01:00:25 --> 01:00:27 in it for a certain period of time.
01:00:27 --> 01:00:31 But once that period of time, most of them it's gonna be okay.
01:00:31 --> 01:00:36 But the, the crazy thing is I saw a roller just right outside the barn here going
01:00:36 --> 01:00:40 through a gate last fall, and I don't know why he didn't take a picture of it.
01:00:41 --> 01:00:42 'cause I was like, whoa, wait.
01:00:42 --> 01:00:45 And, uh, I don't know why he didn't take a picture.
01:00:45 --> 01:00:46 I, I really.
01:00:47 --> 01:00:51 I really don't know, but just right out there I was looking at a manure
01:00:51 --> 01:00:55 pile to see if it had holes in it for dung beetles, and there was a roller
01:00:55 --> 01:00:57 just up from it, just a little ways.
01:00:58 --> 01:01:00 And I was like, oh, wow.
01:01:00 --> 01:01:04 I was a little disappointed because I showed up on dad's place as
01:01:04 --> 01:01:06 opposed to the, the land I'm leasing.
01:01:06 --> 01:01:08 So I was like, wait, this isn't the way it's supposed to work.
01:01:09 --> 01:01:10 But I was pretty excited to see it.
01:01:10 --> 01:01:11 Becky: Absolutely.
01:01:11 --> 01:01:12 I love that.
01:01:12 --> 01:01:12 Yeah.
01:01:12 --> 01:01:17 It's always exciting when you, you see a new insect or critter or plant
01:01:17 --> 01:01:19 or whatever that you hadn't seen before and then all of a sudden
01:01:19 --> 01:01:21 here it is, you're like, oh my gosh.
01:01:21 --> 01:01:25 Yeah, it'll, it, that's what makes on my social media for the next week straight is
01:01:25 --> 01:01:29 like the rainbow dung beetle or something, and people are like, okay, enough.
01:01:29 --> 01:01:29 Enough.
01:01:30 --> 01:01:31 Cal: Oh yeah.
01:01:31 --> 01:01:32 Yeah.
01:01:33 --> 01:01:36 Have you kept track of how many species you've identified?
01:01:37 --> 01:01:41 Becky: I think not this past fall, but the fall before I was getting ready for a
01:01:41 --> 01:01:43 talk and I was talking about dunk beetles.
01:01:44 --> 01:01:52 I think in October is when I did rummage through a cow pie and I had counted,
01:01:53 --> 01:01:57 I think it was nine or 10 different species in that one cow pie alone.
01:01:57 --> 01:02:01 So that was really interesting and really exciting to see.
01:02:01 --> 01:02:02 It's kind of hard.
01:02:02 --> 01:02:08 There's not a lot of great dung beetle identification information out there.
01:02:08 --> 01:02:11 There's one well, I did talk to a gentleman Dr.
01:02:11 --> 01:02:14 Matt Poor, who's in North Carolina.
01:02:15 --> 01:02:17 And I actually did an interview with him.
01:02:17 --> 01:02:25 He did a PA was part of a paper with NC State that was studying dung beetles, and
01:02:25 --> 01:02:32 he has a great little picture diagram of how they brewery into the soil and laid
01:02:32 --> 01:02:33 their brood balls and the different types.
01:02:33 --> 01:02:38 And at the end of that paper, he has kind of a, an identification guide of like some
01:02:38 --> 01:02:45 of the most common species in this area and just if you by size, shape that have
01:02:45 --> 01:02:48 different colors and all that good stuff.
01:02:48 --> 01:02:48 Mm-hmm.
01:02:50 --> 01:02:55 Cal: I, I think I read in North America there's like seven dozen different
01:02:55 --> 01:02:56 species of them, so there's a lot.
01:02:57 --> 01:03:00 Becky: There Is there, yeah, we're we're, I know some of 'em are native
01:03:00 --> 01:03:04 here and some of 'em have been brought in from like Europe and stuff like that.
01:03:05 --> 01:03:08 I know Australia's having a big moment with dung beetles 'cause they've
01:03:08 --> 01:03:12 been introducing them in Australia the last couple of decades I think.
01:03:12 --> 01:03:16 'cause they were having a livestock manure issue and we're trying to figure out
01:03:16 --> 01:03:18 the best way to to, to fix that problem.
01:03:19 --> 01:03:24 And yeah, and different dung beetles, like different types of manure as well.
01:03:24 --> 01:03:29 Some kind of tailor more towards cattle or, or dog or sheep.
01:03:29 --> 01:03:35 Some like more of the grassland, some of more Savannah or woodland type stuff.
01:03:35 --> 01:03:38 So, it's, it's just, it's fascinating.
01:03:38 --> 01:03:42 We don't, we don't think about them enough, but they do a lot for us on our
01:03:42 --> 01:03:47 farms and as long as we don't kill them, they're doing all this work for us.
01:03:47 --> 01:03:52 So for me it's like again, learning to, to work with Mother Nature
01:03:52 --> 01:03:55 so that she can benefit our farm business as much as possible.
01:03:56 --> 01:03:57 Cal: Right.
01:03:57 --> 01:03:58 I completely agree.
01:03:58 --> 01:04:02 And I wanna, I encourage the listeners, take some pictures of your dung beetles,
01:04:02 --> 01:04:07 post them online and tag the Grazing Grass Podcast in it, or post 'em in the Grazing
01:04:07 --> 01:04:09 Grass Community on our Facebook group.
01:04:09 --> 01:04:13 Love to see those pictures and love to see what everyone's finding out there.
01:04:15 --> 01:04:15 Dung Beatles.
01:04:15 --> 01:04:19 I, I often think I'm gonna write a book over the Pursuit of Dung
01:04:19 --> 01:04:21 Beatles as the story of my farm.
01:04:22 --> 01:04:24 We'll see if I ever get it done.
01:04:25 --> 01:04:26 Becky: Because you don't enough stuff do.
01:04:27 --> 01:04:28 Cal: Yeah, I know.
01:04:28 --> 01:04:29 I have all these ideas.
01:04:29 --> 01:04:32 I just gotta focus.
01:04:33 --> 01:04:33 Becky: right.
01:04:33 --> 01:04:34 Cal: Yeah.
01:04:34 --> 01:04:35 I've only heard that my whole life,
01:04:35 --> 01:04:36 so we'll go with that.
01:04:37 --> 01:04:41 Our, we are going to go ahead and transition to our famous four questions,
01:04:41 --> 01:04:45 same four questions we ask of all of our guests and our, and you've already
01:04:45 --> 01:04:48 a answered these once, but we're gonna have you go through 'em again.
01:04:48 --> 01:04:49 We'll see how the answers compare.
01:04:50 --> 01:04:55 Our first question, what is your favorite grazing Grass related book or resource?
01:04:56 --> 01:04:56 Becky: Hmm.
01:04:58 --> 01:05:01 There's so many of them nowadays.
01:05:01 --> 01:05:06 There's so like between like publications and videos and social media, which
01:05:06 --> 01:05:10 is great because, you know, 10 years ago there was hardly anything at all.
01:05:10 --> 01:05:10 Cal: Right.
01:05:10 --> 01:05:11 Yeah.
01:05:11 --> 01:05:13 It, it's it's a wonderful problem to
01:05:13 --> 01:05:14 Becky: yeah, there's so many.
01:05:14 --> 01:05:18 I, and I gotta kind of say, I don't know what I said four years ago.
01:05:18 --> 01:05:21 I think I probably said the same answer, but I'm gonna say
01:05:21 --> 01:05:23 stock Mcgras farmer publication.
01:05:24 --> 01:05:26 Is still one of my favorites.
01:05:26 --> 01:05:30 It's never too long or overwhelming.
01:05:30 --> 01:05:35 And they always have very pertinent articles and a lot of them too are,
01:05:36 --> 01:05:39 some of 'em are re stuff that we've heard before and it's always good
01:05:39 --> 01:05:42 to kind of hear it again, but a lot of 'em are like kind of new concepts
01:05:42 --> 01:05:47 and ideas, which always intrigues me because if you're in this, this
01:05:47 --> 01:05:50 industry long enough, you kind of start hearing the same stuff over and over
01:05:50 --> 01:05:53 and over again, and it gets repetitive.
01:05:53 --> 01:05:57 But there's some really interesting people that write articles in there that
01:05:57 --> 01:06:01 are kind of on the forefront, that bring new concepts to, to what we're doing
01:06:01 --> 01:06:05 or finding out new discoveries, which I think is the most interesting to me.
01:06:07 --> 01:06:08 Cal: Excellent resource.
01:06:08 --> 01:06:14 I've subscribed to it for decades, but never long continuous periods
01:06:14 --> 01:06:18 because right now I just got a email, I think yesterday or day before that
01:06:18 --> 01:06:23 my digital subscription just lapsed and I know I got a email other,
01:06:23 --> 01:06:27 or a later other data I need to resubscribe and I haven't done that yet.
01:06:27 --> 01:06:30 So I'm missing a episode or a episode of issue right now.
01:06:30 --> 01:06:34 I need to go re remedy our second question.
01:06:34 --> 01:06:36 What's your favorite tool for the farm?
01:06:37 --> 01:06:42 Becky: So again, thinking back my one, four years ago I might say
01:06:42 --> 01:06:46 the same thing, but it's a little different this year because, so.
01:06:47 --> 01:06:48 I'm gonna say my a TV.
01:06:48 --> 01:06:53 We have a a 1994 Honda, four tracks that's almost as old as I am.
01:06:54 --> 01:06:56 And that thing is still getting it.
01:06:56 --> 01:06:59 We put some new tires on that thing and some new grips on the handlebars
01:06:59 --> 01:07:02 and, and got her looking good.
01:07:02 --> 01:07:06 But one thing that has changed, and it's so funny here, I am a, a, a
01:07:06 --> 01:07:09 grazier who moves cows for a living.
01:07:10 --> 01:07:16 And I've looked at everyone's a TV or side-by-side setups on their, on, on
01:07:16 --> 01:07:19 their own farms for years and years and years and be like, I need to put
01:07:19 --> 01:07:22 a real holder on my A TV because it would make my life so much easier.
01:07:23 --> 01:07:25 And of course, I dreamt of all these ideas.
01:07:25 --> 01:07:27 I never actually implemented them.
01:07:27 --> 01:07:30 Luckily for me, Ben was like, I'm gonna build you one.
01:07:30 --> 01:07:31 So,
01:07:31 --> 01:07:32 last year.
01:07:33 --> 01:07:37 We finally decked out the a TV we were using with a reel holder on the front.
01:07:37 --> 01:07:41 It's also got a, a box that holds a bunch of posts so we can just have
01:07:41 --> 01:07:43 easy access to our separate post.
01:07:43 --> 01:07:48 Our reel is at our left hand so we can just plop it in place.
01:07:48 --> 01:07:53 We've got another kind of basket esque thing on the back that has
01:07:53 --> 01:07:58 surplus posts and then also we hang, I think we can hang five or six
01:07:58 --> 01:08:01 reels on the, on the a TV at a time.
01:08:02 --> 01:08:07 And again, since we were doing twice a day moves, having that set up has
01:08:07 --> 01:08:10 been absolutely instrumental with the amount of time it takes us, you
01:08:10 --> 01:08:12 know, one pass you gotta fence up.
01:08:13 --> 01:08:17 With that too, I've also mentioned if you know you're gonna be doing
01:08:17 --> 01:08:23 this type of work with step-in posts, polywire reels, that kind
01:08:23 --> 01:08:25 of thing, do not buy cheap stuff.
01:08:25 --> 01:08:29 Do not buy stuff from China or, or whatever.
01:08:29 --> 01:08:31 I don't wanna dis what they're doing, but usually some of that
01:08:31 --> 01:08:33 stuff is just not the highest quality
01:08:33 --> 01:08:36 and, Really get it from a reputable source.
01:08:36 --> 01:08:41 It might be twice as much money, but two, three years ago I bought a box
01:08:41 --> 01:08:43 of some free, cheap step-in posts.
01:08:43 --> 01:08:46 First time I used them, they were breaking the clips were breaking off.
01:08:46 --> 01:08:49 The, the metal spike at the bottom was bending.
01:08:49 --> 01:08:51 Talk about a waste of money.
01:08:51 --> 01:08:54 And just, you know, it all went and ended up going into the trash.
01:08:54 --> 01:08:58 So get good reels, get good polywire, get good posts.
01:08:58 --> 01:09:02 Not only is it going to, you know, some of my posts I got 15 years
01:09:02 --> 01:09:05 ago, I have 15-year-old step-in posts still that I use today.
01:09:06 --> 01:09:08 So they last it's worth the money.
01:09:08 --> 01:09:12 And more or less the frustration that you get from cheap stuff.
01:09:13 --> 01:09:17 You know, we're low input, but we do spend money on a few of those items
01:09:17 --> 01:09:19 that we know it is well worth it.
01:09:19 --> 01:09:23 So make the daily tasks that you have to do.
01:09:24 --> 01:09:29 I used to call moving cattle kind of the daily grind because it would
01:09:29 --> 01:09:30 get monotonous over the years.
01:09:31 --> 01:09:36 I've kind of reframed it recently into my daily rituals to make it a little
01:09:36 --> 01:09:40 more of a different perspective and telling myself to slow down and enjoy
01:09:40 --> 01:09:45 what I get to do because what I get to do is, is absolutely amazing and not.
01:09:46 --> 01:09:49 Most people of this planet won't ever get to understand what
01:09:49 --> 01:09:51 it means to move livestock.
01:09:51 --> 01:09:56 And so if there's a daily ritual that you need to do, make sure you
01:09:56 --> 01:10:00 make it as enjoyable as possible, or else you will not keep doing it.
01:10:00 --> 01:10:05 I sometimes I can be a, a lazy farmer if that's not a contradictory, but
01:10:05 --> 01:10:09 if something isn't fairly easy or straightforward for me to, to try to
01:10:09 --> 01:10:15 do on a daily basis, as you know, most people will be like, this is not worth it.
01:10:15 --> 01:10:19 And again, you know, we're moving cows twice a day, even talking about
01:10:19 --> 01:10:21 moving 'em three times a day this year.
01:10:22 --> 01:10:26 I know a lot of people who look at us and are like, you guys are crazy.
01:10:26 --> 01:10:27 You spend all that time moving cows.
01:10:27 --> 01:10:30 And I'm like, well, you spend all this time in a, in a machine all day.
01:10:30 --> 01:10:31 It's just different work.
01:10:31 --> 01:10:32 It's just different types of work.
01:10:33 --> 01:10:36 So I know a lot of people who spend a lot of money on a nice
01:10:36 --> 01:10:39 truck or a nice machine because it makes it that much more enjoyable.
01:10:39 --> 01:10:41 Same thing, make it enjoyable.
01:10:41 --> 01:10:45 Spend that extra money, figure out what works for you and, and make it work.
01:10:47 --> 01:10:51 Cal: Four years ago you said you're ATV as well.
01:10:51 --> 01:10:54 And I think you have a video that talks about the way you've got it set
01:10:54 --> 01:10:54 Becky: I do.
01:10:55 --> 01:10:55 Yeah.
01:10:56 --> 01:10:57 Thanks for mentioning that.
01:10:57 --> 01:11:01 I, we did a video this past summer so June, I think it was June of 24.
01:11:02 --> 01:11:06 And we had just, we had just vamped it up and it had been a couple of weeks and
01:11:06 --> 01:11:08 we were still trying to figure it out.
01:11:09 --> 01:11:13 But we haven't changed a thing that we had done In that video, I did a
01:11:13 --> 01:11:17 quick review of what the setup was, so if you wanna, if people wanna see
01:11:17 --> 01:11:22 what it looks like, I do have a video on my YouTube channel that shows that
01:11:22 --> 01:11:24 really quickly, all the, the details.
01:11:24 --> 01:11:27 And it's the exact same as it is today.
01:11:27 --> 01:11:29 It's worked out beautifully for us.
01:11:31 --> 01:11:35 Cal: And the other part about buying quality products, it's so important.
01:11:35 --> 01:11:40 I know when we started, we try and try to get started with cheap energizers.
01:11:40 --> 01:11:41 They just cause more problems.
01:11:42 --> 01:11:44 I actually still have one here.
01:11:44 --> 01:11:47 I don't know why I have it, because I use it occasionally and I get mad
01:11:47 --> 01:11:50 and I put it up and then I'll, I'll be like, well, I need to do that.
01:11:50 --> 01:11:51 That'll work.
01:11:51 --> 01:11:55 No, it doesn't because it only lasts a day before it, and I are at odds.
01:11:56 --> 01:12:03 Posts, I've tried to buy local tread in or step in posts from local stores and
01:12:03 --> 01:12:10 every bracket has broken off of them, or the stake has bent now or something.
01:12:11 --> 01:12:12 I started buying O'Brien's.
01:12:13 --> 01:12:17 I can't even count on one hand the number to have a problem,
01:12:18 --> 01:12:21 and I have, I don't know, a couple hundred of them or something, you
01:12:21 --> 01:12:24 know, so, so spend the money for it.
01:12:24 --> 01:12:26 It'll, it'll pay for itself in the long run.
01:12:27 --> 01:12:27 Becky: Absolutely.
01:12:27 --> 01:12:28 Yep.
01:12:28 --> 01:12:29 Couldn't agree with you more.
01:12:30 --> 01:12:32 Cal: And our third question, what would you tell someone?
01:12:32 --> 01:12:33 Just getting started?
01:12:35 --> 01:12:38 Becky: So this one might be a little DI don't know what I said four years ago.
01:12:38 --> 01:12:41 But I did, you know, I, I did mention earlier in today's podcast that, you
01:12:41 --> 01:12:45 know, land prices are very different than they were four years ago.
01:12:45 --> 01:12:50 It, it is, it's a, it's a tough, it's a tough industry to be in anyways.
01:12:51 --> 01:12:56 But, you know, for someone starting out, you know, like I also mentioned,
01:12:56 --> 01:13:01 I was helping out with a mentor program for a few years there, you
01:13:01 --> 01:13:04 know, if you're, if you're interested in grazing livestock, first of all,
01:13:04 --> 01:13:06 go to these grazing conferences.
01:13:07 --> 01:13:10 You know, get, usually there's, if you're lucky enough, your state might have a
01:13:10 --> 01:13:13 grazing council, a grassland council.
01:13:13 --> 01:13:16 I know Virginia has a Virginia for Grassland Council, which is a great
01:13:16 --> 01:13:21 nonprofit organization that puts on a lot of educational type pasture walks and, and
01:13:21 --> 01:13:26 conferences and bringing a lot of amazing speakers to just start getting your
01:13:26 --> 01:13:28 wheels, turning on a lot of this stuff.
01:13:28 --> 01:13:30 Go intern at a farm.
01:13:30 --> 01:13:35 Go volunteer your time to go help a farmer say, Hey.
01:13:35 --> 01:13:40 Like, I just, I got this idea in my head that I, this is what life I wanna pursue.
01:13:40 --> 01:13:43 See what the work actually looks like, what it feels like.
01:13:44 --> 01:13:44 And
01:13:47 --> 01:13:51 you know, if you wanna start out, I, I was lucky enough that my family
01:13:51 --> 01:13:55 had a small amount of land already for me to kind of get going on.
01:13:56 --> 01:14:01 Which was very beneficial for, for me if I didn't have that.
01:14:01 --> 01:14:07 There are opportunities out there for young folk looking to lease land
01:14:07 --> 01:14:10 looking to cus do some custom grazing.
01:14:10 --> 01:14:15 If, if you don't have the funds to even buy cattle or livestock you
01:14:15 --> 01:14:19 know, I would as start with, you know, start with something simple stockers.
01:14:19 --> 01:14:23 I know a lot of people wanna get into cow calf operation right away, but if you
01:14:23 --> 01:14:27 have no experience with cattle at all, definitely try some stockers out first.
01:14:27 --> 01:14:31 They're a great way to get, you, get your knowledge base about cattle going.
01:14:32 --> 01:14:34 You're gonna have to get into the community of where you wanna be
01:14:34 --> 01:14:36 though to, to get that leased land.
01:14:36 --> 01:14:40 For me personally, I I, it's hard for me to get even leased land and
01:14:40 --> 01:14:41 I've lived here my entire life.
01:14:41 --> 01:14:45 So, but the more you're out in the community, the more people get to know
01:14:45 --> 01:14:46 you, know what you're looking for.
01:14:46 --> 01:14:49 Get, get a good feel from you knowing what.
01:14:49 --> 01:14:50 Kind of farming you're doing.
01:14:50 --> 01:14:53 Some people are really excited about the regenerative movement and they
01:14:53 --> 01:14:58 might pick you for a lease over somebody else be just because of that mindset.
01:14:58 --> 01:15:00 So, you can do it.
01:15:00 --> 01:15:05 And I think in the next coming years as more of the older generation start kind
01:15:05 --> 01:15:12 of getting to that age where they're, you know, like my dad, he's 74 or five,
01:15:12 --> 01:15:13 you know, he's getting to that age.
01:15:13 --> 01:15:15 He's like, he's like, I kinda wanna start slowing down a little bit.
01:15:15 --> 01:15:16 And I'm like, I get it.
01:15:17 --> 01:15:20 Like he wants to go travel, get an RV and travel around west and whatnot.
01:15:21 --> 01:15:25 And there's gonna be more and more of those farmers looking to, get somebody
01:15:25 --> 01:15:27 onto their farm to actually farm it.
01:15:28 --> 01:15:30 They're not in it for the money per se anymore.
01:15:30 --> 01:15:32 They're, they're usually set on the money.
01:15:33 --> 01:15:38 So they're, maybe they want a little bit of rent money for their land, but
01:15:38 --> 01:15:41 they're really looking for somebody who wants to care for the land,
01:15:41 --> 01:15:43 because that's their legacy as well.
01:15:43 --> 01:15:46 They've put in a lot of time and effort and they're looking for
01:15:46 --> 01:15:48 someone who actually cares about it.
01:15:48 --> 01:15:52 They don't wanna see it get sold and subdivided or plowed under and
01:15:53 --> 01:15:54 corn planted on it all the time.
01:15:54 --> 01:15:57 Like, there's a lot of older folks out there who wanna see
01:15:57 --> 01:15:59 this young generation succeed.
01:15:59 --> 01:16:02 And I think a lot more people are understanding, like, if we don't get
01:16:02 --> 01:16:05 more young folks in here, we're gonna have some, we're gonna have some issues.
01:16:05 --> 01:16:08 So, yeah, there's opportunity everywhere.
01:16:08 --> 01:16:11 You just gotta, you just gotta get out there and, and start flipping
01:16:11 --> 01:16:13 over some rocks trying to find it.
01:16:14 --> 01:16:18 Cal: I, I think that's excellent advice all the way around and yeah,
01:16:18 --> 01:16:21 action will, will beat on action.
01:16:21 --> 01:16:23 So get out there and, and try.
01:16:24 --> 01:16:27 Becky: I will add real fast too on the, on the other one.
01:16:27 --> 01:16:31 If you're going into livestock as well I know a lot of people probably
01:16:31 --> 01:16:33 say this, but find livestock.
01:16:33 --> 01:16:36 That is the type of genetics you want.
01:16:36 --> 01:16:41 It, it will save you years and thousands and thousands of dollars
01:16:41 --> 01:16:43 if you buy good quality livestock.
01:16:44 --> 01:16:45 Don't buy.
01:16:45 --> 01:16:49 If you are gonna go into calving and you don't have much experience with
01:16:49 --> 01:16:51 cattle, do not get first calf heifers.
01:16:51 --> 01:16:52 Don't get heifers.
01:16:52 --> 01:16:53 Don't go out and buy bread heifers.
01:16:53 --> 01:16:56 Everybody wants bread heifers and I sell bread heifers a lot
01:16:56 --> 01:16:59 to people who have experience.
01:16:59 --> 01:17:02 You don't have experience and then they have issues.
01:17:02 --> 01:17:06 Again, heifers can be a wild card and if you're spending really good money on a
01:17:06 --> 01:17:09 first calf heifer because you're thinking, oh, I'm gonna get more years out of her.
01:17:10 --> 01:17:14 Get a four or five, 6-year-old cow who has had a calf every year.
01:17:14 --> 01:17:15 She's proven she's a pro.
01:17:15 --> 01:17:17 She hasn't had any issues.
01:17:18 --> 01:17:21 They tend to be probably, they might not be cheaper, I wouldn't
01:17:21 --> 01:17:25 classify 'em as cheaper, but they will give you a whole lot less issue.
01:17:25 --> 01:17:30 They'll be so much more enjoyable and it's just so much more of
01:17:30 --> 01:17:31 a positive way to start out.
01:17:31 --> 01:17:37 You want mama cows that know how to do the mama thing, so I'd advise
01:17:37 --> 01:17:41 either get stalkers and start with that or get some, a little bit more
01:17:41 --> 01:17:45 mature cows that have been through the process and know what they're doing
01:17:46 --> 01:17:47 Cal: Right.
01:17:47 --> 01:17:52 So you want your cows or yourself, at least one of you to know what's going on.
01:17:52 --> 01:17:55 And if you have heifers, they don't know what's going on.
01:17:55 --> 01:17:59 And if you don't know what's going on, it could be a disaster.
01:17:59 --> 01:18:02 If you don't know what's going on, cows that's done it before,
01:18:02 --> 01:18:03 they know what's happening.
01:18:03 --> 01:18:04 You're just there learning.
01:18:05 --> 01:18:06 Becky: Great way to say it.
01:18:06 --> 01:18:06 Yep.
01:18:06 --> 01:18:08 They're worth their weight for sure.
01:18:08 --> 01:18:09 In gold, so, yep.
01:18:11 --> 01:18:13 Cal: And Becky, where can others find out more about you?
01:18:14 --> 01:18:17 Becky: So I've got a couple different places you can find me online.
01:18:17 --> 01:18:21 I've got a, a website ember cattle.com.
01:18:21 --> 01:18:27 I got a YouTube channel that is Ember Cattle Company, I think Ember Company.
01:18:27 --> 01:18:28 You'll find me on YouTube.
01:18:28 --> 01:18:31 I, I have all kinds of different videos about.
01:18:32 --> 01:18:35 What I do on the farm grazing cattle.
01:18:35 --> 01:18:39 I also have, you know, like the a TV set up, different things that worked for
01:18:39 --> 01:18:41 us, things that haven't worked for us.
01:18:41 --> 01:18:44 I've also done quite a few different interviews with some, some of
01:18:44 --> 01:18:46 the grazing gurus out there.
01:18:46 --> 01:18:51 Jim Garish, he, I did a really great with one with him this past fall.
01:18:52 --> 01:18:53 Joel Ston who else I.
01:18:54 --> 01:18:55 Cal: Kit Farrell.
01:18:56 --> 01:18:56 Becky: Yeah, that's right.
01:18:56 --> 01:18:58 Kit Farrow's on there too.
01:18:58 --> 01:19:02 So just when I see the guys out and out and about these conferences, I
01:19:02 --> 01:19:05 just ask, I say, Hey, can I sit down with you and have a little chat?
01:19:05 --> 01:19:10 Just to try to, to get some more of the good, that good information from 'em.
01:19:10 --> 01:19:14 So, on there, Facebook, Instagram, again, Ember cattle company.
01:19:15 --> 01:19:16 And I'll just do a quick plugin.
01:19:16 --> 01:19:22 I started a, a towel soap company business here soon too, called Fat Carol Soap.
01:19:22 --> 01:19:25 So, I'm all, I'm all over the place online.
01:19:25 --> 01:19:30 Folks can find me and, and reach out and, and see about dung beetles as well.
01:19:30 --> 01:19:31 Yep.
01:19:31 --> 01:19:31 All this stuff.
01:19:33 --> 01:19:33 Cal: Wonderful.
01:19:34 --> 01:19:35 Becky really enjoyed it.
01:19:35 --> 01:19:38 But we have one more question, but we're turning the tables.
01:19:38 --> 01:19:41 It's a question you asked me, so what would you like to ask me?
01:19:41 --> 01:19:41 Becky: Hmm.
01:19:42 --> 01:19:43 Well this is a good one.
01:19:44 --> 01:19:45 So.
01:19:45 --> 01:19:48 Cal: I didn't give you time to think about that ahead of time because I
01:19:48 --> 01:19:50 was hoping for an easier question.
01:19:51 --> 01:19:53 Becky: Yeah, no, that's a great question.
01:19:53 --> 01:19:57 I would like to, with all the folks that you've interviewed over
01:19:57 --> 01:20:00 the four, maybe five years now,
01:20:01 --> 01:20:01 Cal: Five years.
01:20:01 --> 01:20:03 Becky: five years, that's amazing.
01:20:03 --> 01:20:04 Where do
01:20:08 --> 01:20:15 kind of this, the, the, the mainstream agriculture going in the next five years
01:20:16 --> 01:20:18 versus more of the regenerative movement?
01:20:18 --> 01:20:23 Do you think the regenerative movement's gonna keep kind of building or do
01:20:23 --> 01:20:26 you think we're gonna start going a different route or kind of what,
01:20:26 --> 01:20:30 what are your thoughts on the future of agriculture in the United States?
01:20:32 --> 01:20:39 Cal: I, I really think, you know, tive grazing, tive farming has grown, becoming
01:20:39 --> 01:20:47 more popular, more of a buzz word, but I, I still look around and there's very
01:20:47 --> 01:20:54 few farms doing it, so I, I just look, I think about the stretch of road I'm on.
01:20:54 --> 01:20:59 I'm the only one that's moving cows or doing anything like that, everyone else.
01:20:59 --> 01:21:04 In fact, I'll have a number of airplanes flying over me the spring spraying weeds.
01:21:04 --> 01:21:08 I had saved a bunch of vets last year that I wanted to go to seed in one
01:21:08 --> 01:21:12 certain pasture, and they killed about, I don't know, a hundred yards of it.
01:21:12 --> 01:21:13 I was very disappointed.
01:21:15 --> 01:21:18 But I do feel it's growing and it's getting out there more.
01:21:19 --> 01:21:22 The problem is, and, and I struggle with this, with the podcast, are the
01:21:22 --> 01:21:28 people that's very conventional, are they hearing about it and seeing stuff?
01:21:28 --> 01:21:31 And I think they should be, but I'm not in that world.
01:21:32 --> 01:21:37 And the people who I think would benefit most from it, I know they've had to
01:21:37 --> 01:21:42 see, had to have seen, you know, some of our podcasts put out there, not
01:21:42 --> 01:21:48 only mine, but working Cows ranching, reboot ranching Returns, Stockman,
01:21:48 --> 01:21:52 grass Farmer, we've got all the YouTube channels, so they're coming across it.
01:21:52 --> 01:21:56 But you know, I say this a lot of times on the podcast, I can hear the same thing
01:21:56 --> 01:21:58 a hundred times and it's that hundred.
01:21:58 --> 01:22:01 And first time I hear it and I'm like, why didn't someone tell me that?
01:22:02 --> 01:22:04 I've heard it, but it spoke to me differently.
01:22:04 --> 01:22:07 And that's why I think sharing these stories are so important.
01:22:07 --> 01:22:09 I do think it's going to continue.
01:22:09 --> 01:22:11 I think we're making progress, but.
01:22:13 --> 01:22:16 Just went to a homesteading conference, which I think homesteading is growing
01:22:16 --> 01:22:18 more and more people's doing that.
01:22:18 --> 01:22:23 And at the whole homesteading conference, I heard stuff about, I don't know
01:22:23 --> 01:22:28 that I heard the term regenerative grazing, but people were talking about
01:22:29 --> 01:22:31 rotating your cows and moving them.
01:22:31 --> 01:22:35 That's an area I don't think we've, we've really touched on either.
01:22:35 --> 01:22:39 So I think there's tons of rooms, room for growth and I think
01:22:39 --> 01:22:40 we're going the right direction.
01:22:41 --> 01:22:45 I don't know how far we'll get because changing mindset takes a long time.
01:22:45 --> 01:22:48 One thing that gives me a little bit of hope, and I don't wanna get into
01:22:48 --> 01:22:53 any politics 'cause I have all kinds of concerns about politics, but with
01:22:53 --> 01:22:55 the USDA, I'm hoping some of these.
01:22:57 --> 01:23:02 Pesticides and chemicals that are getting used, maybe we have stronger
01:23:02 --> 01:23:05 legislation, stronger rules about 'em.
01:23:06 --> 01:23:10 At the same time, I realize for my context, I'm not using them.
01:23:10 --> 01:23:13 That doesn't mean other people shouldn't use them.
01:23:13 --> 01:23:14 That's just not what I'm doing.
01:23:15 --> 01:23:19 However, I would like to make sure they're safe and we're using them appropriately.
01:23:19 --> 01:23:22 So I think we have potential for growth and we'll see how it goes.
01:23:22 --> 01:23:23 So I told you nothing.
01:23:26 --> 01:23:31 Becky: Well, I still appreciate the the input that was still you know, the more
01:23:31 --> 01:23:35 times you, the way I get to, to some of my thoughts is you know, if, if someone
01:23:35 --> 01:23:39 says something and it hits a, a chord with me, I'll say that sounds about right.
01:23:40 --> 01:23:41 And yeah, I.
01:23:42 --> 01:23:44 You know, and it's really difficult too.
01:23:44 --> 01:23:47 I, when my, in my younger years when I was like, oh, I'm a, I'm
01:23:47 --> 01:23:52 a rotational grazing guru here, you know, doing this all the time.
01:23:53 --> 01:23:57 And, and always sharing my story with all the local folks who just thought
01:23:57 --> 01:23:59 I was silly, silly little girl.
01:23:59 --> 01:24:03 But you know, we all, we all see the world through our own lenses
01:24:04 --> 01:24:08 and, you know, I, I don't definitely don't wanna be sounding like an
01:24:08 --> 01:24:11 elitist, like the way that I'm doing it is the right and only way.
01:24:11 --> 01:24:12 'cause it's absolutely not.
01:24:12 --> 01:24:13 It's just what I do.
01:24:13 --> 01:24:18 What, where I feel like I'm drawn to go with what I do.
01:24:18 --> 01:24:22 And my neighbor who I'm staring, staring at my cows right now at the window
01:24:22 --> 01:24:24 and I'm staring at my boundary fence.
01:24:24 --> 01:24:28 My, my next door neighbor, he farms the, if I was gonna say opposite.
01:24:28 --> 01:24:33 We are complete opposites of the way that we farm and we just, you know, we keep
01:24:33 --> 01:24:35 to ourselves, we both do our own thing.
01:24:36 --> 01:24:39 He thinks that I'm growing weeds over here and I think, you know,
01:24:39 --> 01:24:41 he is got poisons over there.
01:24:41 --> 01:24:45 So it's like, but, but we've all see that what we're doing is, is the, the
01:24:45 --> 01:24:47 right way and the right way forward.
01:24:47 --> 01:24:50 And, and I think mindsets will change.
01:24:50 --> 01:24:53 It just takes a couple generations maybe than longer than we think.
01:24:53 --> 01:24:55 And we'll see.
01:24:55 --> 01:24:56 We'll see how it goes.
01:24:56 --> 01:25:01 Cal: And, and we go back to that, you know, a rising tide raises all boats.
01:25:01 --> 01:25:05 That's been my favorite thing for the last week to say, but
01:25:05 --> 01:25:06 we're all in this together.
01:25:06 --> 01:25:09 Whether or not they're doing a little bit different than we
01:25:09 --> 01:25:13 are, or totally different, we can all benefit each other.
01:25:13 --> 01:25:17 And I think it's important we be inclusive rather than exclusive.
01:25:18 --> 01:25:18 So,
01:25:18 --> 01:25:19 Becky: Yep.
01:25:19 --> 01:25:19 Absolutely.
01:25:20 --> 01:25:20 Well said.
01:25:22 --> 01:25:26 Cal: Well, Becky, I really appreciate you coming on, catching us up with what
01:25:26 --> 01:25:29 you've been doing the formation of Ember Cattle Company and what's happening there.
01:25:29 --> 01:25:30 Appreciate it.
01:25:30 --> 01:25:32 Becky: Thank you so much for having me on today.
01:25:32 --> 01:25:35 Cal had so had so much fun catching up here.
01:25:37 --> 01:25:41 Cal: Thank you for listening to this episode of the grazing grass podcast,
01:25:41 --> 01:25:45 where we bring you stories and insights into grass-based livestock production.
01:25:46 --> 01:25:48 If you're new here, we've got something just for you.
01:25:48 --> 01:25:50 Our new listener resource guide.
01:25:51 --> 01:25:55 Is packed with everything you need to get started on your listening
01:25:55 --> 01:25:57 journey with a grazing grass podcast.
01:25:57 --> 01:26:01 It gives you more information about the podcast about myself.
01:26:01 --> 01:26:02 And next steps.
01:26:03 --> 01:26:06 You can grab your free copy at grazinggrass.com
01:26:06 --> 01:26:07 slash guide.
01:26:08 --> 01:26:09 Don't miss out.
01:26:10 --> 01:26:13 And Hey, do you have a grazing story to share?
01:26:13 --> 01:26:17 We're always looking for passionate producers to feature on the show,
01:26:18 --> 01:26:22 whether you're just starting out or have years of experience your story matters.
01:26:23 --> 01:26:24 Head over to grazing grass.
01:26:25 --> 01:26:26 Dot com slash guest.
01:26:27 --> 01:26:29 To learn more and apply to be a guest.
01:26:29 --> 01:26:33 We'd love to share your journey with our growing community of grazers.
01:26:34 --> 01:26:35 Until next time.
01:26:36 --> 01:26:37 Keep on grazing grass.
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