Eric Chaya is a visionary in the realm of sustainable agriculture and military synergy. Originating from Wisconsin, Eric's journey has taken him from a traditional dairy-rich environment to pioneering innovative agricultural practices on military lands in California. His career path was notably influenced by his military service, which included a transformative period at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. Here, he began to experiment with regenerative farming techniques using livestock such as cattle, pigs, and chickens to rejuvenate land. Eric's passion for sustainable farming and his military discipline have merged to create the Regenerative Grazing Open Air Lab (R-GOAL) in San Luis Obispo, where he continues to blend agricultural innovation with military training to enhance land stewardship and community resilience.
The podcast covers a range of topics, including:
- Eric's transition from Wisconsin to California and his introduction to regenerative agriculture
- His experiences in Africa and the U.S. with livestock relocation
- The integration of agricultural practices into military training environments
- The successful collaboration between military personnel and local ranchers
- The innovative grazing management practices on Department of Defense lands
- The personal anecdotes of his journey, including the emotional decision to part with his Brahman herd
- The ecological benefits observed from these practices, such as increased wildlife sightings and improved landscapes
Listeners should tune in to this episode to gain insights into the unique intersection of military operations and sustainable agriculture. Eric's story is not only inspiring but also offers practical lessons on how dedication and adaptability can lead to remarkable outcomes in land management. The podcast provides a compelling blueprint for future initiatives that harmonize land use, community resilience, and ecological benefits, making it a valuable resource for anyone interested in regenerative farming, military innovation, or environmental sustainability.
Links Mentioned in the Episode
Eric on LinkedIn
Visit our Sponsors:
Noble Research Institute
Redmond
GBT Angus
Grazing Grass Links
New Listener Resource Guide
Provide feedback for the podcast
Website
Insiders
Resources (Coming Soon)
Community (on Facebook)
Check out the Apiary Chronicles Podcast
Original Music by Louis Palfrey
Chapters
- (00:00) - Introduction to Eric Czaja and Regenerative Ranching
- (00:20) - Fast Five: Quick Questions with Eric
- (01:09) - Eric's Farming Journey and Early Experiences
- (01:30) - Welcome to the Grazing Grass Podcast
- (02:06) - Insights on Regenerative Grazing
- (04:44) - Eric's Military Background and Transition to Farming
- (06:47) - Starting with Livestock: Pigs, Chickens, and Cows
- (17:24) - Moving to California and New Beginnings
- (25:42) - The Regenerative Grazing Open Air Lab Project
- (39:38) - Range Control and Personal Management
- (40:04) - Meeting the Rancher
- (40:49) - Innovative Grazing Techniques
- (42:21) - Coordination with Range Control
- (43:55) - Training and Grazing Integration
- (47:40) - Challenges and Lessons Learned
- (50:35) - Project Duration and Future Plans
- (51:05) - Benefits and Observations
- (53:13) - Tools and Resources
- (54:39) - Final Thoughts and Reflections
NOTE This file was generated by Descript
00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 Speaker: On today's episode, we have Eric Czaja.
00:00:03 --> 00:00:09 We discuss his journey to Regenerative rancher and the Regenerative Grazing
00:00:09 --> 00:00:12 Open Air Lab that he's working on.
00:00:13 --> 00:00:17 It is a proof of concept within the US Army, so
00:00:17 --> 00:00:19 it's very interesting, so you want to listen.
00:00:20 --> 00:00:22 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: we'll get started with the Fast five.
00:00:22 --> 00:00:24 What is your name?
00:00:24 --> 00:00:25 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Eric Czaja
00:00:26 --> 00:00:28 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Eric, what's your farm's name?
00:00:29 --> 00:00:32 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: we call it the Regenerative Grazing Open Air Lab.
00:00:34 --> 00:00:37 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Very interesting and that should hook a lot of people.
00:00:37 --> 00:00:38 Wait till we talk about it
00:00:38 --> 00:00:38 later.
00:00:39 --> 00:00:39 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yep.
00:00:39 --> 00:00:39 Great.
00:00:39 --> 00:00:41 Acronym R Goal.
00:00:42 --> 00:00:42 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Yes,
00:00:43 --> 00:00:43 it is.
00:00:43 --> 00:00:44 Makes it easy to remember.
00:00:44 --> 00:00:46 At least remember the acronym
00:00:46 --> 00:00:49 and then you gotta think about it, the words in there, where are you located
00:00:49 --> 00:00:53 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: We're in San Luis Obispo, California.
00:00:55 --> 00:00:57 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: and what species do you graze?
00:00:57 --> 00:00:59 Or what livestock do you graze?
00:00:59 --> 00:01:01 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: It is cow calf pairs.
00:01:02 --> 00:01:07 So we graze about 140 pairs, primarily black Angus.
00:01:08 --> 00:01:09 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, very good.
00:01:09 --> 00:01:12 And when did you start grazing animals?
00:01:13 --> 00:01:17 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: I started back in 2018 is when we started very
00:01:17 --> 00:01:21 much on the, the homesteading level of,
00:01:21 --> 00:01:26 you know, few cows had turkeys, had pigs, had chickens.
00:01:27 --> 00:01:29 But right now we're strictly, we're strictly doing the cattle.
00:01:30 --> 00:01:32 Cal: Welcome to the grazing grass podcast.
00:01:32 --> 00:01:35 The podcast dedicated to sharing the stories of grass-based
00:01:35 --> 00:01:39 livestock producers, exploring regenerative practices that improve
00:01:39 --> 00:01:41 the land animals and our lives.
00:01:42 --> 00:01:46 I'm your host, Cal Hardage and each week we'll dive into the journeys,
00:01:46 --> 00:01:51 challenges, and successes of producers like you, learning from
00:01:51 --> 00:01:56 their experiences, and inspiring each other to grow, and graze better.
00:01:57 --> 00:02:00 Whether you're a seasoned grazier or just getting started.
00:02:01 --> 00:02:02 This is the place for you.
00:02:04 --> 00:02:05 You're growing more than grass.
00:02:06 --> 00:02:10 You're growing a healthier ecosystem to help your cattle
00:02:10 --> 00:02:11 thrive in their environment.
00:02:12 --> 00:02:16 You're growing your livelihood by increasing your carrying capacity
00:02:16 --> 00:02:19 and reducing your operating costs.
00:02:19 --> 00:02:25 You're growing stronger communities and a legacy to last generations.
00:02:25 --> 00:02:28 The grazing management decisions you make today.
00:02:29 --> 00:02:34 impact everything from the soil beneath your feet to the community all around you.
00:02:35 --> 00:02:39 That's why the Noble Research Institute created their Essentials
00:02:39 --> 00:02:45 of Regenerative Grazing course to teach ranchers like you easy to follow
00:02:45 --> 00:02:51 techniques to quickly assess your forage production and infrastructure capacity.
00:02:52 --> 00:02:55 In order to begin grazing more efficiently.
00:02:56 --> 00:03:00 Together, they can help you grow not only a healthier operation,
00:03:00 --> 00:03:02 but a legacy that lasts.
00:03:03 --> 00:03:06 Learn more on their website at noble.
00:03:07 --> 00:03:09 org slash grazing.
00:03:09 --> 00:03:16 It's n o b l e dot org forward slash grazing.
00:03:16 --> 00:03:18 Speaker 2: For my 10 seconds today.
00:03:18 --> 00:03:23 Last week I went to the Okie Homesteading conference in Pryor, Oklahoma.
00:03:24 --> 00:03:24 I.
00:03:24 --> 00:03:27 Lots of people there is very interesting.
00:03:27 --> 00:03:27 I enjoyed it.
00:03:27 --> 00:03:32 I also got to talk with Todd and Carson from Redmond.
00:03:32 --> 00:03:35 I really appreciate the conversation, spending time with them.
00:03:37 --> 00:03:41 I did indulge myself a little bit and got a cheese chocolate cheesecake
00:03:41 --> 00:03:46 on a stick way too much food, but it was, it was really good.
00:03:49 --> 00:03:50 Anyway, enough of that.
00:03:50 --> 00:03:52 Let's, let's get back to Eric.
00:03:55 --> 00:03:55 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Eric
00:03:55 --> 00:03:58 getting started growing up, did you grow up with livestock?
00:03:58 --> 00:04:00 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: no, not at all.
00:04:00 --> 00:04:01 Grew up in town.
00:04:02 --> 00:04:04 I grew up in Wisconsin, so
00:04:04 --> 00:04:06 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, land of cheese.
00:04:06 --> 00:04:07 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: yeah.
00:04:07 --> 00:04:08 Yeah.
00:04:08 --> 00:04:09 I'm a cheese head.
00:04:09 --> 00:04:16 Definitely a, a Packer fan, but we saw a lot of, you know, typical dairy
00:04:16 --> 00:04:21 operations, you know, confinement, dairy operations, and you drove
00:04:21 --> 00:04:26 past them and you didn't wanna spend any longer at them, you know?
00:04:26 --> 00:04:27 And but we all.
00:04:27 --> 00:04:29 Bailed hay, you know, bailed alfalfa in the
00:04:29 --> 00:04:29 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, yeah.
00:04:30 --> 00:04:33 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: cleaned stalls and gutters in the summer to,
00:04:34 --> 00:04:36 you know, have that summer income.
00:04:37 --> 00:04:41 So I, I wanted to kind of get away from it as, as far as I could actually.
00:04:43 --> 00:04:44 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: I, I understand that.
00:04:44 --> 00:04:48 So, So, did you get outta high school and go into the military?
00:04:48 --> 00:04:49 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yeah.
00:04:49 --> 00:04:53 Well, right outta high school I did ROTC, reserve Officer Training
00:04:53 --> 00:04:54 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, yes.
00:04:54 --> 00:04:56 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: so they'll, they'll pay for you at college.
00:04:56 --> 00:04:57 That was kind of the deal.
00:04:58 --> 00:05:01 My parents encouraged me to go, but said, you gotta find a way to pay for it.
00:05:02 --> 00:05:03 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
00:05:03 --> 00:05:03 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yeah.
00:05:03 --> 00:05:03 It turns out
00:05:03 --> 00:05:06 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: And that ROTC works out Good for that.
00:05:06 --> 00:05:07 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: it was great.
00:05:07 --> 00:05:08 Yeah, it was great.
00:05:08 --> 00:05:11 I don't think I would've graduated without ROTC because they're also a
00:05:11 --> 00:05:15 little bit of a, a big brother kind of mentoring you throughout that
00:05:15 --> 00:05:21 time and making sure I kept my head on and, and graduated so I could.
00:05:22 --> 00:05:26 Commission and then, then you, you start off as an officer, you start off as a
00:05:26 --> 00:05:26 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
00:05:27 --> 00:05:28 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: in the Army.
00:05:28 --> 00:05:30 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: What was your major in college?
00:05:30 --> 00:05:33 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Oh, it criminology and law studies
00:05:33 --> 00:05:34 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
00:05:36 --> 00:05:37 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Interesting.
00:05:37 --> 00:05:39 But I just didn't wanna take math,
00:05:40 --> 00:05:40 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:05:40 --> 00:05:42 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: running away from math courses.
00:05:43 --> 00:05:45 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Try to try to avoid the math.
00:05:45 --> 00:05:45 Yeah.
00:05:45 --> 00:05:46 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yeah.
00:05:47 --> 00:05:48 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Very good.
00:05:48 --> 00:05:50 So you go into the military.
00:05:51 --> 00:05:54 When did you get interested into tive ag?
00:05:55 --> 00:06:00 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: It wasn't until we had, I suppose I'd been in the
00:06:00 --> 00:06:09 army for about eight years and we were looking at putting down a, some roots,
00:06:10 --> 00:06:12 you know, we moved around quite a bit, but
00:06:12 --> 00:06:12 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, yes.
00:06:13 --> 00:06:17 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: we figured that in Fort Bragg, North Carolina is
00:06:17 --> 00:06:19 where we could, we could stay for a while.
00:06:19 --> 00:06:21 It's interesting, people call it homesteading.
00:06:21 --> 00:06:26 When you stay at a station for a while, and
00:06:26 --> 00:06:30 there's so many, you know, Fort Bragg has so many units at it that
00:06:30 --> 00:06:36 it's, it's conducive to just kind of bouncing from one unit to another
00:06:37 --> 00:06:41 without having to pick up and, you know, the, the kids can kind of get
00:06:41 --> 00:06:43 into a community, you know, your spouse
00:06:43 --> 00:06:44 gets friends.
00:06:44 --> 00:06:47 And so it was, it's kind of a cool, cool spot where you can stay.
00:06:47 --> 00:06:53 And so we bought some property and it was just a bunch of scrubby scrub po
00:06:53 --> 00:06:56 scrub oaks and, and spindly pine trees.
00:06:56 --> 00:06:58 Like not even pulp wood, pine trees, you know,
00:06:58 --> 00:06:58 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
00:06:59 --> 00:07:00 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: you could barely walk through it.
00:07:00 --> 00:07:04 And turns out like equipment is pretty expensive, heavy equipment
00:07:04 --> 00:07:06 to come out and do some clearing.
00:07:07 --> 00:07:12 So I was out there with my chainsaw just about clearing all I could just to
00:07:12 --> 00:07:16 get some, some wire in there so I could
00:07:16 --> 00:07:16 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
00:07:17 --> 00:07:18 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: bring, so I could bring in pigs
00:07:18 --> 00:07:19 so they could do some clearing.
00:07:20 --> 00:07:22 I had a friend who had some awesome about hogs and he said,
00:07:23 --> 00:07:24 oh, these will do a great job.
00:07:24 --> 00:07:28 You know, we can sprinkle some cracked corn down there by the base
00:07:28 --> 00:07:31 of some of these pine trees and they'll uproot, uproot 'em for you.
00:07:32 --> 00:07:36 So that's kind of how it, how we really started was I just wanted to clear some
00:07:36 --> 00:07:39 land so I could have shooting lanes.
00:07:39 --> 00:07:40 Actually, that's, that's really,
00:07:41 --> 00:07:41 really what I wanted.
00:07:41 --> 00:07:45 I'd be able to, I had a berm out there and I thought, oh, I get some
00:07:45 --> 00:07:48 shooting lanes and pigs will do it for me, and then we'll, we'll have
00:07:48 --> 00:07:49 a bunch of pork in the freezer.
00:07:50 --> 00:07:52 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: So when you bought that land, was that the main
00:07:52 --> 00:07:56 goal that you thought, gives me an outdoor area, I can do some shooting,
00:07:57 --> 00:08:00 and then the pigs were kind of the solution to, or the
00:08:00 --> 00:08:01 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Exactly.
00:08:01 --> 00:08:01 Well it
00:08:01 --> 00:08:01 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Yeah.
00:08:01 --> 00:08:02 The method to your solution?
00:08:03 --> 00:08:03 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yeah.
00:08:03 --> 00:08:06 And then it was just kind of cool because we, we had used those pigs
00:08:07 --> 00:08:11 and then we had a lot of ticks, you know, and sugars and a lot of
00:08:11 --> 00:08:13 mosquitoes and a lot of other insects.
00:08:13 --> 00:08:15 And we thought, well, chickens could.
00:08:16 --> 00:08:19 Kind of just patrol the house, you know, we'd just get some chickens and,
00:08:20 --> 00:08:23 and then we started, I started cutting down more trees and we started growing
00:08:23 --> 00:08:27 all this grass, and I thought, I didn't really wanna mow all this grass.
00:08:27 --> 00:08:27 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Yeah.
00:08:28 --> 00:08:29 Created more work for you.
00:08:29 --> 00:08:29 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yeah.
00:08:29 --> 00:08:30 I'm like, what am I doing here?
00:08:30 --> 00:08:34 Let's get some cows out here to start eating some of this grass.
00:08:35 --> 00:08:38 So it was kind of like these one things just kinda led to another.
00:08:38 --> 00:08:38 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Yeah.
00:08:39 --> 00:08:39 Yeah.
00:08:39 --> 00:08:41 It's kinda like that chicken math deal.
00:08:41 --> 00:08:43 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yeah, exactly.
00:08:43 --> 00:08:44 My wife loved it.
00:08:44 --> 00:08:48 It, I, before I would leave on a, on a, on a trip or something like that,
00:08:48 --> 00:08:52 she, I'd, I'd leave her with a, a present, you know, to, to remind me of
00:08:52 --> 00:08:54 it, whether it was a cow or a pig or
00:08:55 --> 00:08:55 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: yes.
00:08:56 --> 00:08:56 Yeah,
00:08:56 --> 00:08:57 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: of chickens, I would, oh, all right.
00:08:57 --> 00:08:59 I'm leaving it a few days.
00:08:59 --> 00:08:59 See you later.
00:09:00 --> 00:09:01 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: there you go.
00:09:02 --> 00:09:05 On those first journeys into livestock,
00:09:06 --> 00:09:09 were you raising them all for your own consumption at that
00:09:09 --> 00:09:10 time, or did you sell some out?
00:09:11 --> 00:09:13 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: We really were just raising for our
00:09:13 --> 00:09:14 own, it wasn't until about like
00:09:14 --> 00:09:15 year three.
00:09:16 --> 00:09:17 I think it was year three.
00:09:17 --> 00:09:20 It was when we started, you know, enough friends and neighbors had
00:09:20 --> 00:09:23 been like, we want some of this.
00:09:23 --> 00:09:23 And
00:09:23 --> 00:09:24 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
00:09:24 --> 00:09:26 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: I kind of was like, well that's, it was
00:09:26 --> 00:09:29 so, I mean, it meant a lot to me.
00:09:29 --> 00:09:33 I almost felt weird, like putting a dollar value to it, you know?
00:09:33 --> 00:09:33 'cause I
00:09:33 --> 00:09:37 wasn't doing it on scale, you know?
00:09:37 --> 00:09:40 So then it's sort just being like, well, we'll, we'll raise one extra steer,
00:09:41 --> 00:09:45 or, you know, we'll, instead of doing two hogs, we'll do four, you know,
00:09:45 --> 00:09:49 and, and we'll sell to the neighbor just to cover the butcher and the feed.
00:09:49 --> 00:09:50 And,
00:09:50 --> 00:09:51 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:09:51 --> 00:09:53 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: and so that's kind of how we, that's, that's
00:09:53 --> 00:09:55 about as big as we got out there.
00:09:55 --> 00:09:55 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Yeah.
00:09:56 --> 00:09:59 Did you stick to just the hogs, the cattle, and some chickens?
00:10:00 --> 00:10:03 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: We did turkeys which we really, really enjoyed the
00:10:03 --> 00:10:04 turkeys.
00:10:04 --> 00:10:08 Just some of 'em didn't last as long as others, depending on their temperament.
00:10:09 --> 00:10:09 know,
00:10:09 --> 00:10:09 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, yes.
00:10:10 --> 00:10:13 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: some went a little bit quicker and maybe didn't I.
00:10:13 --> 00:10:15 Didn't last until Thanksgiving.
00:10:15 --> 00:10:17 Gosh, I'm trying to think of other things we did.
00:10:17 --> 00:10:19 That was really, that was really about it.
00:10:20 --> 00:10:23 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: And were you, were you using some like
00:10:23 --> 00:10:26 saladin style chicken tractors?
00:10:26 --> 00:10:28 Or did you just have 'em in a coop in a pen?
00:10:29 --> 00:10:31 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Well, the layers just to coop that
00:10:32 --> 00:10:34 we moved very infrequently.
00:10:34 --> 00:10:35 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, yeah.
00:10:36 --> 00:10:39 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: but the chicken tractor for the meat birds,
00:10:39 --> 00:10:41 we moved that, you know, every day.
00:10:42 --> 00:10:42 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
00:10:43 --> 00:10:43 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: And we had
00:10:43 --> 00:10:48 a really cool, I actually, a, a neighbor was selling a chicken tra,
00:10:48 --> 00:10:50 like one of those prefabbed real
00:10:50 --> 00:10:51 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, yes.
00:10:51 --> 00:10:52 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: chicken tractors.
00:10:52 --> 00:10:56 I couldn't even remember the, the brand name of it, but it was, it was awesome.
00:10:57 --> 00:11:03 You know, we used that and that, that was really cool to see.
00:11:04 --> 00:11:11 In fact, there was a day where I was outta town and so the chickens got left there
00:11:11 --> 00:11:13 for, it was probably two or three days.
00:11:13 --> 00:11:16 And so I came back and I was like, Hey, that needed to be moved.
00:11:17 --> 00:11:20 So I pick up, move 'em and there's just like, it looks like a black mat,
00:11:21 --> 00:11:21 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:11:22 --> 00:11:22 Yeah.
00:11:22 --> 00:11:24 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: of chicken manure and just matted grass.
00:11:25 --> 00:11:30 Well, the next year, I mean that thing, that spot was like black, green, you know
00:11:30 --> 00:11:33 that, that much nitrogen there it was.
00:11:33 --> 00:11:34 It was cool looking.
00:11:34 --> 00:11:34 It ended up being
00:11:34 --> 00:11:35 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:11:35 --> 00:11:38 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: It didn't grow anything for a while, but once it
00:11:38 --> 00:11:39 did grow it was, it was pretty neat.
00:11:40 --> 00:11:42 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah, it was a little too hot at the beginning,
00:11:42 --> 00:11:44 but boy, it, it took off after that.
00:11:45 --> 00:11:45 Yeah.
00:11:45 --> 00:11:46 And chickens are great for that.
00:11:47 --> 00:11:51 As we move larger animals around, sometimes we don't see the benefit
00:11:51 --> 00:11:55 quite as much as just having some small, a small chicken tractor
00:11:55 --> 00:11:57 out there and moving it daily.
00:11:58 --> 00:11:59 Two weeks.
00:11:59 --> 00:12:01 You can just see each day's move.
00:12:01 --> 00:12:02 It's just crazy.
00:12:02 --> 00:12:02 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: yeah.
00:12:03 --> 00:12:05 It is, it's, it's pretty gratifying,
00:12:06 --> 00:12:06 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: It is.
00:12:06 --> 00:12:07 Yes.
00:12:07 --> 00:12:11 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: these, you know, when you get a hundred, 150, 200,
00:12:11 --> 00:12:14 I know there's people who are doing a whole lot more and doing bigger moves.
00:12:14 --> 00:12:17 You don't necessarily see that unless you're going to the
00:12:17 --> 00:12:19 polywire looking left and right,
00:12:19 --> 00:12:19 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, yes.
00:12:20 --> 00:12:22 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: to see that change, to give you some feedback.
00:12:23 --> 00:12:25 But yeah, it is, those little chick chickens are great.
00:12:26 --> 00:12:28 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, they are With your pigs and, and cattle.
00:12:28 --> 00:12:32 I know the cattle were a little bit later where you're using electro netting
00:12:32 --> 00:12:34 and Tim poly wire with your cows.
00:12:34 --> 00:12:37 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Well, for the, for the pigs, we
00:12:37 --> 00:12:38 did actually poultry netting.
00:12:39 --> 00:12:40 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, okay.
00:12:40 --> 00:12:41 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: I used was Poultry netting.
00:12:41 --> 00:12:44 and never, I mean, we did, I wish I knew.
00:12:44 --> 00:12:50 I mean, probably, I mean, we did five seasons, five years.
00:12:50 --> 00:12:51 So what we'd do is we would get pigs.
00:12:52 --> 00:12:55 It was just in North Carolina, so I would wanna buy it, you know, at the,
00:12:55 --> 00:12:58 the last frost is when I would buy the feeders and then try and have 'em
00:12:59 --> 00:13:01 finished out before, just, just after.
00:13:02 --> 00:13:04 Halloween when everyone was getting rid of their pumpkins, that was
00:13:04 --> 00:13:05 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
00:13:05 --> 00:13:07 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: I'd go to all the neighbors and grab up
00:13:07 --> 00:13:09 all their pumpkins, feed 'em to the pigs, and that was their dean.
00:13:09 --> 00:13:13 Wormer, you know, a couple weeks as we get ready to go to the butcher.
00:13:13 --> 00:13:18 But the poultry netting was great and we never had any, any issues
00:13:18 --> 00:13:20 with them getting out except
00:13:20 --> 00:13:23 for we had one, one Duroc.
00:13:24 --> 00:13:26 My daughters had named him Stinky Pete.
00:13:27 --> 00:13:30 We would sometimes, you know, the fence would get turned off and not
00:13:30 --> 00:13:34 turned back on, and he was pretty smart and he picked up with his
00:13:34 --> 00:13:39 mouth, picked up one of the fiberglass posts, laid it down, and walked in.
00:13:39 --> 00:13:41 He was in the, my wife opened the garage door and he was in
00:13:41 --> 00:13:44 the garage eating chicken food,
00:13:44 --> 00:13:45 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
00:13:45 --> 00:13:47 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: which he was out walked, walked him right back in.
00:13:47 --> 00:13:49 But yeah, that was really, that was the only escape.
00:13:49 --> 00:13:51 Other than that, that pulter netting stuff was great.
00:13:51 --> 00:13:52 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:13:52 --> 00:13:55 And did you just have one re one roll of it that you were using?
00:13:56 --> 00:13:57 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: No, we had quite a few rolls.
00:13:58 --> 00:14:02 And then in, and then in between we would run Polywire, so two
00:14:02 --> 00:14:10 strands of polywire to even like further subdivide the pa quote unquote pasture.
00:14:10 --> 00:14:10 It was just
00:14:10 --> 00:14:11 the woods.
00:14:11 --> 00:14:14 That's where we put the, the pigs was just in our, all that
00:14:14 --> 00:14:16 pine, all those piney woods.
00:14:16 --> 00:14:17 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Yeah.
00:14:17 --> 00:14:18 And that makes sense.
00:14:18 --> 00:14:23 Really, when you going through any amount of trees and stuff, it'd
00:14:23 --> 00:14:27 be hard to just make a, a little pin with one row to get it done.
00:14:28 --> 00:14:28 Yeah.
00:14:28 --> 00:14:29 You need a few rows.
00:14:29 --> 00:14:32 In fact, I told my wife earlier today, I really need a few
00:14:32 --> 00:14:33 more rows of electro netting.
00:14:34 --> 00:14:34 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yeah.
00:14:35 --> 00:14:36 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: I didn't
00:14:36 --> 00:14:36 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: mind.
00:14:36 --> 00:14:37 I don't mind putting them out.
00:14:37 --> 00:14:38 Oh yeah, they're not cheap.
00:14:38 --> 00:14:39 I don't mind putting them out.
00:14:39 --> 00:14:41 Put moving them around though.
00:14:41 --> 00:14:42 Especially in the woods.
00:14:42 --> 00:14:43 That is,
00:14:43 --> 00:14:44 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:14:44 --> 00:14:46 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: that's a good exercise for your
00:14:46 --> 00:14:48 marriage, know, you and your wife.
00:14:49 --> 00:14:49 That's.
00:14:49 --> 00:14:52 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: That, that's a good exercise for meditation.
00:14:52 --> 00:14:57 I mean, man we got, we got enough trees with thorns out
00:14:57 --> 00:14:59 there and those thorns jump out and grab it,
00:15:00 --> 00:15:01 but yeah.
00:15:01 --> 00:15:03 Works on patience,
00:15:03 --> 00:15:04 on resilience.
00:15:04 --> 00:15:06 There's, there's a whole list of things.
00:15:06 --> 00:15:07 It improves.
00:15:07 --> 00:15:09 Well, let's take it back.
00:15:09 --> 00:15:10 I'm not sure it improves.
00:15:10 --> 00:15:11 It helps you work on it.
00:15:11 --> 00:15:12 It gives you an opportunity
00:15:13 --> 00:15:13 to
00:15:13 --> 00:15:13 improve.
00:15:14 --> 00:15:14 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: It
00:15:14 --> 00:15:15 offers you an opportunity.
00:15:15 --> 00:15:16 Yep.
00:15:16 --> 00:15:16 Yeah.
00:15:16 --> 00:15:18 We call 'em, wait a minute, bushes.
00:15:19 --> 00:15:20 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
00:15:20 --> 00:15:20 There you
00:15:20 --> 00:15:21 go.
00:15:22 --> 00:15:23 Wait a minute.
00:15:23 --> 00:15:23 Yeah.
00:15:24 --> 00:15:27 Now, during this time, you were starting to see what your
00:15:27 --> 00:15:30 chicken's effect on your land was.
00:15:30 --> 00:15:34 You were seeing what the pigs were doing to the area you brought in cows
00:15:34 --> 00:15:37 because the grass you started having more
00:15:37 --> 00:15:37 grass.
00:15:39 --> 00:15:43 I can only assume that just caused you to dive deeper into this
00:15:43 --> 00:15:45 rigidity practice rabbit hole.
00:15:45 --> 00:15:45 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yeah.
00:15:45 --> 00:15:49 I mean, I didn't have, I didn't have a lot of bad habits.
00:15:49 --> 00:15:50 You know, my,
00:15:50 --> 00:15:53 my wife had, you know, my, I shouldn't say bad habits, I didn't have a
00:15:53 --> 00:15:54 lot of institutional knowledge.
00:15:54 --> 00:15:55 My wife grew up on a
00:15:55 --> 00:15:56 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Right.
00:15:56 --> 00:15:59 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: My wife grew up on a dairy, and when she was younger, this
00:15:59 --> 00:16:00 is, this is just kind of what they did.
00:16:00 --> 00:16:02 It was a very grass-based dairy.
00:16:03 --> 00:16:08 It wasn't until much later and more and more visits from more and more
00:16:08 --> 00:16:14 salesmen did they go to much more of a, of a conventional type operation.
00:16:14 --> 00:16:15 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: yes.
00:16:15 --> 00:16:18 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: So for us, I, I just, yeah, I started, you
00:16:18 --> 00:16:21 know, I, I'd read Holistic Management.
00:16:21 --> 00:16:23 I was listening to podcasts.
00:16:23 --> 00:16:25 I was you know, I'd heard Dr.
00:16:25 --> 00:16:29 Allen Williams, I heard Gabe Brown I read Dirt to Soil.
00:16:29 --> 00:16:31 I'd read Dirt to Soil when I was in Afghanistan.
00:16:31 --> 00:16:31 You know, I'm like,
00:16:32 --> 00:16:32 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
00:16:32 --> 00:16:33 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: I'm reading these things.
00:16:33 --> 00:16:36 I'm like, wow, this is some incredible, incredible stuff.
00:16:37 --> 00:16:39 And it just seemed to really make sense to me.
00:16:40 --> 00:16:42 And I, I know we're, we're, we're gonna get into this too, but.
00:16:43 --> 00:16:48 When I would go, you know, I worked in Africa and it was like, this
00:16:48 --> 00:16:51 is how they managed their land.
00:16:51 --> 00:16:52 In some cases, you
00:16:52 --> 00:16:54 know, they weren't out there with polywire, they're, it was kids
00:16:54 --> 00:16:56 with sticks, you know, moving
00:16:56 --> 00:16:57 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
00:16:57 --> 00:16:58 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: every single day.
00:16:59 --> 00:16:59 There's no, there's no
00:16:59 --> 00:17:04 set stock grazing, you know, it's, they're moving, they're working, they're working
00:17:04 --> 00:17:08 with like other landowners or community areas where they're grazing through it.
00:17:09 --> 00:17:12 And so this all just kind of made, to me, it just made a whole lot of sense.
00:17:13 --> 00:17:15 So it, it was really enjoyable too.
00:17:16 --> 00:17:16 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
00:17:17 --> 00:17:17 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: that was pretty neat.
00:17:18 --> 00:17:18 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Yeah.
00:17:20 --> 00:17:24 So how long did you get to stay in North Carolina doing that?
00:17:24 --> 00:17:26 And then was the next step going to California?
00:17:26 --> 00:17:27 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yeah.
00:17:27 --> 00:17:32 We were there for six years and then we we really thought we would stay there.
00:17:33 --> 00:17:33 And then I
00:17:33 --> 00:17:34 had
00:17:34 --> 00:17:34 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: yeah.
00:17:34 --> 00:17:37 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: I had an opportunity to go to the
00:17:37 --> 00:17:40 Naval Postgraduate School, which is in Monterey, California.
00:17:41 --> 00:17:45 And we thought, well, you know, we, there's not too many army
00:17:45 --> 00:17:47 bases that are on the beach.
00:17:47 --> 00:17:48 You know, like
00:17:48 --> 00:17:48 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
00:17:49 --> 00:17:53 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: the Navy tends to have a pretty good stronghold on those.
00:17:54 --> 00:17:55 And so it was a unique opportunity.
00:17:55 --> 00:17:56 I, I applied for it.
00:17:56 --> 00:17:57 Didn't think I'd get in.
00:17:57 --> 00:18:04 Somehow I got in and we thought, well, let's, let's go try this.
00:18:04 --> 00:18:06 Let's go do something a little bit different for a year and a half,
00:18:06 --> 00:18:09 and then we will, we'll hustle right back to North Carolina.
00:18:09 --> 00:18:10 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:18:10 --> 00:18:11 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: That, that's what we thought
00:18:11 --> 00:18:12 That's, we thought we would do.
00:18:13 --> 00:18:15 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: So how long have you been in California now?
00:18:16 --> 00:18:19 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Oh, it has been almost three years now.
00:18:19 --> 00:18:20 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, yes.
00:18:21 --> 00:18:21 Yeah.
00:18:22 --> 00:18:22 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yeah.
00:18:22 --> 00:18:28 And we, I mean it's, it is beautiful, you know, like Yeah, it is.
00:18:28 --> 00:18:29 It's a postcard out there.
00:18:29 --> 00:18:30 It's,
00:18:30 --> 00:18:31 it is really unique.
00:18:32 --> 00:18:34 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: I have not been there, but I'm sure I've told
00:18:34 --> 00:18:38 this story I believe on the podcast before, but my wife's from Hawaii.
00:18:38 --> 00:18:39 I'm from Oklahoma.
00:18:40 --> 00:18:45 First time I went to Hawaii with her, she went ahead of me to see
00:18:45 --> 00:18:50 family, and she was there, I wanna say two weeks before I went over and.
00:18:51 --> 00:18:54 I would be like, Hey, send me some pictures.
00:18:54 --> 00:18:55 I wanna see what it looks
00:18:55 --> 00:18:55 like.
00:18:55 --> 00:18:59 And she was like, well, we didn't really do anything.
00:18:59 --> 00:19:00 We didn't go anywhere.
00:19:00 --> 00:19:01 We just ran to town.
00:19:02 --> 00:19:04 Nothing really to take a picture of.
00:19:04 --> 00:19:04 I'm like, okay.
00:19:04 --> 00:19:07 So next day I'd ask her again, you, you take some pictures
00:19:07 --> 00:19:07 for me?
00:19:08 --> 00:19:12 She's like, no, we just, we were just out around the house.
00:19:12 --> 00:19:13 Didn't really do anything.
00:19:13 --> 00:19:14 I'm like, okay, okay.
00:19:14 --> 00:19:15 This goes on for two weeks.
00:19:15 --> 00:19:16 And I fly
00:19:16 --> 00:19:16 over.
00:19:16 --> 00:19:17 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yeah.
00:19:18 --> 00:19:20 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Well, her dad picks me up at the airport
00:19:20 --> 00:19:25 and we go to their house standing on the driveway of her parents'
00:19:27 --> 00:19:29 driveway, standing on their driveway.
00:19:29 --> 00:19:34 I could look to the east and see the ocean and I don't know if
00:19:34 --> 00:19:37 you've been to Oklahoma, but we don't have a ocean that close.
00:19:38 --> 00:19:38 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: No.
00:19:39 --> 00:19:42 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: You could look to the West and see a mountain.
00:19:43 --> 00:19:44 I.
00:19:44 --> 00:19:44 I.
00:19:44 --> 00:19:45 don't know if you've been to Oklahoma.
00:19:45 --> 00:19:46 We don't have a lot of mountains.
00:19:46 --> 00:19:48 We do have some, but not in area.
00:19:48 --> 00:19:49 I'm in
00:19:49 --> 00:19:53 and, and then if you looked across the road at her neighbor's
00:19:53 --> 00:19:55 yard, there was a palm tree.
00:19:55 --> 00:19:58 We don't have those in Oklahoma, at least not in my area.
00:19:58 --> 00:19:58 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yep.
00:20:00 --> 00:20:01 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Like all these opportunities.
00:20:01 --> 00:20:07 So it was, it was pretty, pretty, it was a very pretty or beautiful area to
00:20:07 --> 00:20:09 go over there and visit and see that.
00:20:09 --> 00:20:12 I'm sure the area you are in has all that
00:20:12 --> 00:20:14 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: It, it is beautiful.
00:20:14 --> 00:20:16 We, we always talk about, my wife and I say if there's.
00:20:17 --> 00:20:22 There's one spot that we wouldn't need to, you know, prayerfully consider
00:20:22 --> 00:20:24 moving to where we could just go.
00:20:24 --> 00:20:24 Yeah.
00:20:24 --> 00:20:26 That of course we would move it.
00:20:26 --> 00:20:28 It'd be Hawaii, it'd be
00:20:28 --> 00:20:29 Maui in particular.
00:20:30 --> 00:20:30 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:20:30 --> 00:20:31 And that, that's where she grew
00:20:31 --> 00:20:32 up, Mally.
00:20:32 --> 00:20:33 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: unbelievable.
00:20:33 --> 00:20:35 Hana that Road to Hana.
00:20:35 --> 00:20:36 Oh,
00:20:36 --> 00:20:36 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Yeah.
00:20:36 --> 00:20:37 Yeah.
00:20:37 --> 00:20:41 We, we went, we went to Hana when we were, in fact, funny story is.
00:20:42 --> 00:20:47 We had to talk our parents into letting us use their car to go to Hana because
00:20:47 --> 00:20:49 they were like, that's just so far to go.
00:20:51 --> 00:20:54 And finally they're like, okay, if y'all want to go over there for the day
00:20:54 --> 00:20:55 or something.
00:20:55 --> 00:20:57 And it's a little bit longer drive.
00:20:57 --> 00:21:02 It's really not that far by miles, but you know, it's nothing when
00:21:02 --> 00:21:05 you think, well, we're gonna go to Tulsa and that's an hour trip.
00:21:05 --> 00:21:07 You know, we, we drive a lot further here.
00:21:08 --> 00:21:08 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Mm-hmm.
00:21:09 --> 00:21:11 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: So Now when you moved to California,
00:21:12 --> 00:21:15 what'd you do with your, your chickens, your goats and cattle?
00:21:15 --> 00:21:20 Did you just say that time is over, or, that period of my life is over for now.
00:21:20 --> 00:21:21 And you sold them, or were
00:21:21 --> 00:21:24 you able to move out there and do anything with that?
00:21:24 --> 00:21:27 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: well, we, we, we sold the herd.
00:21:27 --> 00:21:32 So we had, at that point, we transitioned to like some registered Brahmans,
00:21:32 --> 00:21:33 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh,
00:21:33 --> 00:21:34 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: really, we just loved that breed.
00:21:34 --> 00:21:38 Loved how smart they were and with how smart they were.
00:21:38 --> 00:21:40 It just made moving such a breeze.
00:21:40 --> 00:21:41 You know, the moves
00:21:41 --> 00:21:42 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:21:42 --> 00:21:44 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: I would walk out there, they'd, they'd be at the
00:21:44 --> 00:21:48 gate handle, you know, they'd identify, okay, there's the yellow gate handle.
00:21:48 --> 00:21:49 This is where he is gonna listen.
00:21:49 --> 00:21:51 And they'd all be standing right there before work.
00:21:51 --> 00:21:54 I'd, you know, lift up the gate handle, they'd walk, I'd close it
00:21:54 --> 00:21:56 behind him, and I'd go off to work.
00:21:56 --> 00:22:00 You know, I had a little bit of like, wet shoes as I showed up to,
00:22:00 --> 00:22:01 you know, work out with my team.
00:22:01 --> 00:22:03 But it no big deal.
00:22:04 --> 00:22:05 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Did you, why?
00:22:05 --> 00:22:06 Why'd you go with Braas?
00:22:07 --> 00:22:07 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: well.
00:22:08 --> 00:22:12 It's actually kind of, we went to the state fair and we saw
00:22:13 --> 00:22:20 this, you know, big old hump, big floppy ears red, super slick coat.
00:22:21 --> 00:22:27 And my wife said, all right, I'm, that's the kind of cow I want, you
00:22:27 --> 00:22:28 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, yes.
00:22:28 --> 00:22:28 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: different.
00:22:28 --> 00:22:29 I want something a little bit different.
00:22:30 --> 00:22:35 And then we got to just know a few people in the area and just a neat community
00:22:35 --> 00:22:37 who were raising those registered ones.
00:22:37 --> 00:22:41 And it, again, the person, I mean, I could sit my daughters on top of 'em.
00:22:42 --> 00:22:43 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:22:43 --> 00:22:44 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: just stand right there.
00:22:44 --> 00:22:46 We could put a halter on 'em.
00:22:46 --> 00:22:50 I mean, they were just, it was a really, the temperament was pretty unique.
00:22:50 --> 00:22:56 I know some Brahmans, or some people call 'em brainers, get a, get a bad rap for
00:22:56 --> 00:23:00 how spirited they are high headed, but.
00:23:00 --> 00:23:00 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: yes.
00:23:01 --> 00:23:02 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: You know, I, I mean, I think that's same thing
00:23:02 --> 00:23:06 with dogs too, you know, like really smart dogs that are kind of not
00:23:06 --> 00:23:08 trained are pretty wild dogs, you know?
00:23:08 --> 00:23:09 And
00:23:09 --> 00:23:09 so,
00:23:09 --> 00:23:09 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: they can be.
00:23:10 --> 00:23:12 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: so I thought it was a good breed that
00:23:12 --> 00:23:19 when worked with frequently, they were very fast learners and we could
00:23:19 --> 00:23:22 bring in, so if I brought in other cows, they would train up, you
00:23:22 --> 00:23:26 know, they just follow those, the, the, the herd of Brahmins around.
00:23:26 --> 00:23:26 ' cause they
00:23:26 --> 00:23:27 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:23:27 --> 00:23:29 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: where to go and they, they'd follow
00:23:29 --> 00:23:30 you, they'd follow you anywhere.
00:23:30 --> 00:23:34 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: I, I think I've told my wife I wanna get us some of
00:23:34 --> 00:23:37 these zebu that are, are pretty small.
00:23:37 --> 00:23:40 Of course I probably shouldn't be saying this on a Grazing Grass
00:23:40 --> 00:23:43 podcast where we're talking about production, but I, I think they're
00:23:43 --> 00:23:46 cool looking and I think they'd be cool just to have out in my front
00:23:46 --> 00:23:49 yard here and I could do a few things with them.
00:23:49 --> 00:23:51 And my wife doesn't like the way they look,
00:23:51 --> 00:23:55 so she has told me no on those or Brahmas right now.
00:23:55 --> 00:23:59 So I'm working her that way because I re, I remember my grandparents had a
00:23:59 --> 00:24:06 bramer Brahma bull, I guess in the mid eighties blue, and he was a timus thing.
00:24:06 --> 00:24:07 You could
00:24:07 --> 00:24:09 scratch on him and everything.
00:24:09 --> 00:24:14 And, and it just was amazing except, you know, as a kid and he
00:24:14 --> 00:24:16 comes running across the pasture to
00:24:16 --> 00:24:19 you it's a little scary because you don't know how it's gonna react.
00:24:19 --> 00:24:21 But, but he was dog gentle.
00:24:21 --> 00:24:22 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yep.
00:24:22 --> 00:24:23 Yeah.
00:24:23 --> 00:24:27 our our bull would put his head right on my shoulder and just
00:24:27 --> 00:24:30 let me, that big old flap down by his, you know, by his brisket.
00:24:30 --> 00:24:32 He'd just like, well, please scratch
00:24:32 --> 00:24:32 me.
00:24:32 --> 00:24:34 Like he was a big dog.
00:24:34 --> 00:24:35 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:24:35 --> 00:24:35 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: just,
00:24:36 --> 00:24:37 we really liked that breed read.
00:24:38 --> 00:24:38 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:24:38 --> 00:24:39 Very good.
00:24:39 --> 00:24:41 So you sold them out when you
00:24:41 --> 00:24:43 you decided to make the trip across the country?
00:24:45 --> 00:24:45 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yeah, same thing.
00:24:45 --> 00:24:49 And, and really the chickens, and we, we kind of planned ahead,
00:24:49 --> 00:24:50 hadn't bought any hogs and.
00:24:51 --> 00:24:57 Knew we weren't gonna do meat birds again, so we just kind of closed up the
00:24:57 --> 00:25:00 shop windows, so to speak, and yeah.
00:25:00 --> 00:25:02 Thought we would just come right back.
00:25:02 --> 00:25:05 And so we didn't really sell anything other than, other
00:25:05 --> 00:25:07 than the actual livestock.
00:25:08 --> 00:25:08 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: oh yeah.
00:25:09 --> 00:25:12 So when you moved out there thinking it was a short period of time,
00:25:13 --> 00:25:16 you didn't look for a piece of land out there, you were thinking
00:25:16 --> 00:25:17 more short term.
00:25:18 --> 00:25:18 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yeah.
00:25:18 --> 00:25:18 In Monterey.
00:25:18 --> 00:25:19 Yeah, right.
00:25:19 --> 00:25:21 We thought 18 months and then
00:25:21 --> 00:25:23 we, we'd go right back and yeah.
00:25:23 --> 00:25:29 I think the, the medium price price of a home in Monterey is something like
00:25:29 --> 00:25:32 900, 900 for a fixer upper, you know, and it's,
00:25:33 --> 00:25:35 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: I, I figured it was pretty high,
00:25:35 --> 00:25:36 pretty expensive there.
00:25:36 --> 00:25:37 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: yeah.
00:25:37 --> 00:25:37 We weren't gonna do that.
00:25:38 --> 00:25:38 Yep.
00:25:38 --> 00:25:39 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Yeah.
00:25:40 --> 00:25:42 So let's, let's shift gears
00:25:42 --> 00:25:46 just a little bit, Eric, and talk about your project you have going on now.
00:25:46 --> 00:25:48 And that's our overgrazing topic for today.
00:25:48 --> 00:25:53 A topic where we dive deeper into I'll just let you introduce
00:25:53 --> 00:25:54 it and tell us what it isn't.
00:25:54 --> 00:25:55 Then we'll go from
00:25:55 --> 00:25:55 there.
00:25:56 --> 00:25:59 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: So just as we left off in our conversation about
00:25:59 --> 00:26:04 Monterey, you know, I was at the Naval Postgraduate School and they really
00:26:04 --> 00:26:10 give us a, a wide breadth of what we want to write our thesis about.
00:26:10 --> 00:26:11 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, yes.
00:26:11 --> 00:26:13 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: And so they, they're not gonna say,
00:26:13 --> 00:26:17 here's, here's a, you know, pick out of a hat here, here's your topic.
00:26:17 --> 00:26:21 They want it to be something that we experienced operationally, you
00:26:21 --> 00:26:25 know, whether we were deployed or working with a partner force.
00:26:25 --> 00:26:30 Something that will, that we can give back to our community.
00:26:30 --> 00:26:31 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
00:26:32 --> 00:26:35 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: I always felt like when I was deployed, I could
00:26:36 --> 00:26:39 build rapport with my partner, force it.
00:26:39 --> 00:26:40 I don't.
00:26:40 --> 00:26:43 I don't play video games, but if I did, I, I always felt like I had
00:26:43 --> 00:26:46 a video game cheat code because I could talk about agriculture.
00:26:46 --> 00:26:47 I talk about,
00:26:47 --> 00:26:48 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:26:48 --> 00:26:50 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: of these places that we deploy to
00:26:50 --> 00:26:52 are growing based economies.
00:26:52 --> 00:26:53 You know, they're practicing
00:26:53 --> 00:26:55 animal, that's how they get by.
00:26:55 --> 00:26:57 That's, that's their main source of income.
00:26:57 --> 00:27:02 So I thought this was, there's there's something here that we
00:27:02 --> 00:27:06 could connect, because a lot of the, the people I work with had zero
00:27:06 --> 00:27:08 background, no, no training on it.
00:27:08 --> 00:27:08 and,
00:27:08 --> 00:27:09 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, yes.
00:27:09 --> 00:27:12 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: and so I just thought, again, it was, it
00:27:12 --> 00:27:15 was a bit of an unfair advantage that I had with my partner force.
00:27:15 --> 00:27:21 And so we saw whether I was, you know, in, in Africa where we were
00:27:21 --> 00:27:24 able to work with the local graziers.
00:27:24 --> 00:27:29 For example, we had a, a range that we wanted to train our partner force on
00:27:29 --> 00:27:34 how, how to use these machine guns and, you know, but this grass is practically.
00:27:35 --> 00:27:39 You know, chest high or over our heads, and they said, here, here's our range.
00:27:39 --> 00:27:41 And we said, Hey, this is great.
00:27:41 --> 00:27:45 But, you know, for the, we're gonna be laying on our stomachs and we,
00:27:45 --> 00:27:49 we talk about our, our phases of training, go, crawl, walk, run.
00:27:49 --> 00:27:52 And so we are on the, we're in the crawl phase with you guys right now.
00:27:53 --> 00:27:56 And so we need this to be, you know, mowed down some is there,
00:27:57 --> 00:27:59 there's no mowers clearly.
00:27:59 --> 00:27:59 You know, there's no
00:27:59 --> 00:28:00 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh,
00:28:00 --> 00:28:00 right.
00:28:00 --> 00:28:01 Yeah.
00:28:01 --> 00:28:01 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: mowers out here.
00:28:01 --> 00:28:03 There's no flail mowers.
00:28:03 --> 00:28:06 So can, how is this something we could do?
00:28:06 --> 00:28:08 And they're like, yeah, give us, give us a couple days.
00:28:08 --> 00:28:10 It'll be, it'll be mowed down.
00:28:11 --> 00:28:13 And so we're driving by that range later that day.
00:28:14 --> 00:28:18 And there's, there's those kids with sticks, you know, getting their
00:28:18 --> 00:28:20 herd over there, herd of big cows.
00:28:21 --> 00:28:24 And they're, they're mowing down the range for us.
00:28:25 --> 00:28:25 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
00:28:26 --> 00:28:28 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: And then, like later on throughout
00:28:28 --> 00:28:32 that, that time we're, we're working with those same graziers to, to.
00:28:33 --> 00:28:36 Buy food for us, you know, to sustain our team.
00:28:37 --> 00:28:41 So we just saw like kind of a cool like working relationship
00:28:41 --> 00:28:44 with the local graziers.
00:28:44 --> 00:28:46 You know, we would call 'em ranchers here.
00:28:46 --> 00:28:50 And the, the military element that was stationed there,
00:28:51 --> 00:28:51 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Right.
00:28:51 --> 00:28:52 Good synergy there,
00:28:53 --> 00:28:53 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yeah.
00:28:53 --> 00:28:54 They worked together.
00:28:54 --> 00:28:58 Like, they're like, we can't exist without one another, or we can't do
00:28:58 --> 00:28:59 things well without each other.
00:29:00 --> 00:29:04 So there was a, there was an element of reliance on one another that I
00:29:04 --> 00:29:07 thought was actually community building.
00:29:07 --> 00:29:09 It wasn't, it wasn't a distraction.
00:29:09 --> 00:29:12 It wasn't something that got in the way of operations.
00:29:12 --> 00:29:13 It actually
00:29:13 --> 00:29:14 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:29:14 --> 00:29:15 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: helped it.
00:29:15 --> 00:29:19 And then as you, as you know, the difference between coming out with
00:29:19 --> 00:29:25 a mower and mowing a range versus the difference in grazing a range.
00:29:26 --> 00:29:29 Like, you're gonna get two different products
00:29:29 --> 00:29:30 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, you are?
00:29:30 --> 00:29:30 Yes.
00:29:31 --> 00:29:34 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: And so, you know, we're, I'm getting a
00:29:34 --> 00:29:36 little ahead of myself, but you know, I'm here in California and we're
00:29:36 --> 00:29:38 obviously concerned about wildfires.
00:29:38 --> 00:29:40 That's always, that's always a risk, right?
00:29:40 --> 00:29:41 We're always concerned about that.
00:29:41 --> 00:29:41 And,
00:29:41 --> 00:29:45 and even when I was in North Carolina, you know, we'd sit on a range and if
00:29:45 --> 00:29:50 we're shooting in a trace around, hits a piece of oxidized grass, now I'm sitting
00:29:50 --> 00:29:53 on my hands waiting 'cause there's a fire and we have to shut down training.
00:29:54 --> 00:29:54 And so
00:29:55 --> 00:29:57 I just thought, I'm like, whoa, with this polywire, with this level of
00:29:57 --> 00:30:03 control we have over these livestock, why aren't we grazing our installations?
00:30:03 --> 00:30:08 Why aren't we, why aren't we taking, you know, a more holistic approach
00:30:08 --> 00:30:10 to how we manage our land here?
00:30:11 --> 00:30:14 That that ultimately benefits the war fighter, the trainer.
00:30:14 --> 00:30:14 You know,
00:30:15 --> 00:30:15 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
00:30:15 --> 00:30:18 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: create more resilient landscapes that can withstand
00:30:18 --> 00:30:19 everything the unit's gonna bring to bear.
00:30:21 --> 00:30:27 But back to the thesis talk is, you know, we, we definitely saw like a link between
00:30:27 --> 00:30:30 these agriculture practices and stability.
00:30:31 --> 00:30:36 So my thesis partner, Ian McAlpine, I was super blessed to get a thesis partner
00:30:36 --> 00:30:41 who was smarter, better writer, better looking, all these things, you know, that
00:30:41 --> 00:30:44 was, that was a smart move on my part.
00:30:44 --> 00:30:46 ' cause he took our thesis to, to, to really another level.
00:30:46 --> 00:30:50 And so we, we looked at, you know, how do we create stability in areas
00:30:50 --> 00:30:54 of instability through an agricultural practice like regenerative gr grazing.
00:30:54 --> 00:30:57 Mainly we looked at adaptive multip paddock grazing.
00:30:57 --> 00:30:57 That's really
00:30:57 --> 00:30:58 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
00:30:58 --> 00:30:58 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: focus.
00:31:00 --> 00:31:03 And then how do we do it on a DOD installation?
00:31:04 --> 00:31:07 Like how do, like could we, could we go do it internationally?
00:31:07 --> 00:31:07 Sure.
00:31:07 --> 00:31:10 And there's a lot of people who are, but let's build it.
00:31:10 --> 00:31:14 Let's see who we need for a team, how we create it, and then let's
00:31:14 --> 00:31:15 do it here on one of our bases.
00:31:16 --> 00:31:18 And so that, that's really what gave birth.
00:31:19 --> 00:31:25 To the Argo, the Regenerative Grazing Open Air Lab that we're, we, now we're here on
00:31:25 --> 00:31:27 camp San Luis Obisbo in, in California.
00:31:27 --> 00:31:30 This is a National Guard, California National Guard base.
00:31:31 --> 00:31:35 And we took an existing lease that was those 140 cow calf
00:31:35 --> 00:31:36 pairs that I had mentioned.
00:31:37 --> 00:31:40 And, you know, we talked to the environmental team,
00:31:40 --> 00:31:42 we talked to range control.
00:31:42 --> 00:31:44 They're the folks who run the training.
00:31:44 --> 00:31:45 You know, they say
00:31:45 --> 00:31:46 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, okay.
00:31:46 --> 00:31:48 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: this unit is going to be on alpha
00:31:48 --> 00:31:50 range shooting this weapon system.
00:31:51 --> 00:31:54 These other units will be on these other ranges, shooting other things.
00:31:56 --> 00:31:59 So we brought those two in and then got the garrison.
00:31:59 --> 00:32:04 So the kind of the headquarters element, the mayor, if you will, of
00:32:04 --> 00:32:09 the base, brought all those together along with the rancher who was
00:32:09 --> 00:32:11 grazing it, brought 'em all in a room.
00:32:12 --> 00:32:16 And said, this is kinda, you know, this is regenerative grazing 1 0 1.
00:32:16 --> 00:32:18 Here's what we'd like to do on this base.
00:32:19 --> 00:32:23 And then I, I looked over at the rancher, his name's Mark, and I'd never met him.
00:32:23 --> 00:32:25 And I was like, you know, we're, we're funded.
00:32:25 --> 00:32:28 We, you know, we, we can do this project, but without your
00:32:28 --> 00:32:31 buy-in, we don't do anything.
00:32:31 --> 00:32:32 You know, this just
00:32:32 --> 00:32:33 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:32:33 --> 00:32:35 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: was kind of a cool opportunity that
00:32:35 --> 00:32:37 we, we didn't ultimately get to do.
00:32:37 --> 00:32:39 So he was great.
00:32:39 --> 00:32:40 He, he agreed to it.
00:32:40 --> 00:32:44 And then we took off running in, in September.
00:32:44 --> 00:32:45 Starting, Starting,
00:32:45 --> 00:32:46 the grazing.
00:32:46 --> 00:32:49 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: so if I'm understanding you correctly, you got
00:32:49 --> 00:32:53 this approved and you, you've got all the, the stakeholders together
00:32:53 --> 00:32:59 and coming up with a plan and the cows were already there on a lease situation
00:32:59 --> 00:33:06 and, and you converted or the, the change was to go from a set stocking situation
00:33:06 --> 00:33:08 to AMP grazing.
00:33:09 --> 00:33:10 Did I summarize that correctly?
00:33:10 --> 00:33:13 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yeah, I mean he, they definitely did some rotation.
00:33:13 --> 00:33:18 This was so there's 2 acres, so there's about five, 500 acre pastures.
00:33:19 --> 00:33:20 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, okay.
00:33:20 --> 00:33:23 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: And so, and, and Mark, he, he was a good stockman.
00:33:23 --> 00:33:26 I mean, he still is a good stockman and did a, a good job and
00:33:26 --> 00:33:28 didn't take it down to nothing.
00:33:28 --> 00:33:32 You know, he definitely, we've had two awesome years, two great years
00:33:32 --> 00:33:37 of rain here this year, not as great, which was not an awesome start to
00:33:37 --> 00:33:38 the project, you know, to say, Hey,
00:33:38 --> 00:33:39 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, yes.
00:33:39 --> 00:33:41 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: we're starting this new thing and we're not getting the
00:33:41 --> 00:33:42 rain that we've had the last two years.
00:33:42 --> 00:33:46 'cause everyone was like, wow, you know, last two years we had longer grass.
00:33:46 --> 00:33:47 I said, yeah, I'm
00:33:48 --> 00:33:49 working on that.
00:33:49 --> 00:33:52 But Correct, it was an existing, an existing lease.
00:33:52 --> 00:33:55 And, and what we wanna get to is we're, we're, we're coming into contact with
00:33:55 --> 00:33:59 other, other bases, installations.
00:34:00 --> 00:34:05 Who say, Hey, we don't have a grazing lease, but we, we see what you guys
00:34:05 --> 00:34:10 are doing and we're interested in also implementing something like this,
00:34:10 --> 00:34:11 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, yes.
00:34:11 --> 00:34:14 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: fuel load mitigation, you know, we call
00:34:14 --> 00:34:19 it fuel load reduction, fine fuel load reduction, or invasive species.
00:34:19 --> 00:34:24 They'll say they want, you know, some type of a, an animal to remove some of those.
00:34:25 --> 00:34:27 And so that's, that's another model we're looking at.
00:34:29 --> 00:34:30 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Yeah.
00:34:30 --> 00:34:32 Is that where you, you see this going?
00:34:33 --> 00:34:34 If this works out good.
00:34:34 --> 00:34:38 And we're it, it works for the DOD
00:34:38 --> 00:34:43 and it works for your base and it works for the rancher and it works for the land.
00:34:44 --> 00:34:45 Is that what you envision?
00:34:45 --> 00:34:50 We have the opportunity to set the example so that other bases, other
00:34:50 --> 00:34:53 leases, they can go and implement this.
00:34:53 --> 00:34:54 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Exactly
00:34:55 --> 00:34:55 that.
00:34:55 --> 00:34:56 That's exactly it.
00:34:56 --> 00:34:59 I mean, we are, we're the proof of concept, you know,
00:34:59 --> 00:35:02 we are, we're the test dummy.
00:35:02 --> 00:35:07 And I felt that way very much so as I was, you know, scaling, scaling,
00:35:07 --> 00:35:14 these cliffs with geared reels tied to my belt and, you know, a, a rubber
00:35:14 --> 00:35:18 mallet trying to pound some of these fiberglass posts in the ground, you know?
00:35:18 --> 00:35:20 'cause I was like, I, this has to work.
00:35:20 --> 00:35:21 I know this will work.
00:35:21 --> 00:35:22 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes,
00:35:22 --> 00:35:23 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: know, I saw it in North Carolina.
00:35:23 --> 00:35:24 This has to work.
00:35:24 --> 00:35:26 I know it's a Mediterranean climate.
00:35:26 --> 00:35:28 I know things are different, but it's gonna work here.
00:35:28 --> 00:35:29 I'm gonna make it work here.
00:35:29 --> 00:35:30 And so
00:35:30 --> 00:35:33 one thing that is, is unique is we are, we are partnered
00:35:33 --> 00:35:35 with understanding ag and so we
00:35:35 --> 00:35:35 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, okay.
00:35:36 --> 00:35:38 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Part of our, part of the contract is understanding ag
00:35:38 --> 00:35:42 does come here and, and say, Hey, this is kind of the road to regeneration.
00:35:42 --> 00:35:44 This is the way we can apply it here.
00:35:44 --> 00:35:49 Here are some things that you've been doing that you need to do better.
00:35:50 --> 00:35:52 Or you know, there's a saying.
00:35:53 --> 00:35:56 I went to, I went to ranger school when I was a young lieutenant, and
00:35:56 --> 00:36:01 they say that there's, there's strong rangers and they're smart rangers.
00:36:02 --> 00:36:04 And I was, I was being a strong ranger out there.
00:36:04 --> 00:36:05 It's nothing bad.
00:36:05 --> 00:36:08 It's not bad being a strong ranger, but you know, it,
00:36:08 --> 00:36:08 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Right?
00:36:08 --> 00:36:09 Yes.
00:36:09 --> 00:36:10 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: it's hard.
00:36:10 --> 00:36:12 And so, you know, I didn't have
00:36:12 --> 00:36:15 any, I couldn't tighten my belt anymore.
00:36:15 --> 00:36:18 You know, we were working hard out here and it was, it was awesome.
00:36:18 --> 00:36:24 But that having a, someone come out a second set of eyes and say, Hey, you
00:36:24 --> 00:36:25 know, you could stick to the road here.
00:36:25 --> 00:36:29 Utilize the terrain over here a little bit better, and let's tie into water
00:36:29 --> 00:36:32 over here was, was invaluable for my.
00:36:33 --> 00:36:34 Sanity and health.
00:36:35 --> 00:36:38 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: You know, as we think about life throughout,
00:36:38 --> 00:36:44 in all aspects, whether it's grazing our, our, marriages, raising kids.
00:36:45 --> 00:36:49 I listened to a podcast called The Better Life Podcast with Brandon Turner,
00:36:50 --> 00:36:52 and he's all the time about coaches in
00:36:52 --> 00:36:54 different parts of your life.
00:36:54 --> 00:36:58 And I think that's, and I'm gonna say this, I'm gonna say I think it's really
00:36:58 --> 00:37:01 important, and I don't have that in place and I really should, I think.
00:37:02 --> 00:37:05 But the coaches really help you because you're in the trenches
00:37:06 --> 00:37:10 and that's someone else to come in and have eyes on it, and they're, they're
00:37:10 --> 00:37:14 using their experience and they're helping you see maybe what you're
00:37:14 --> 00:37:15 missing because you're in that trench.
00:37:16 --> 00:37:19 So I think working with someone is so important.
00:37:20 --> 00:37:23 Like I said, I don't have any in place, but I really should.
00:37:23 --> 00:37:23 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Hmm.
00:37:24 --> 00:37:25 You're apps, right?
00:37:25 --> 00:37:26 And I'll put a.
00:37:26 --> 00:37:31 A plugin, it, it, maybe not a coach, but even just community who can, you know,
00:37:31 --> 00:37:31 and that's why
00:37:31 --> 00:37:32 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: community?
00:37:32 --> 00:37:33 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: you see like, the Ranching for
00:37:33 --> 00:37:35 Profit with Executive Link.
00:37:35 --> 00:37:36 I mean, that's a really powerful thing.
00:37:36 --> 00:37:39 My, my wife and I, we do this thing called Reengage.
00:37:39 --> 00:37:41 It's like a marriage ministry.
00:37:41 --> 00:37:42 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, yes.
00:37:42 --> 00:37:45 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: we're like always, always, we've gone through
00:37:45 --> 00:37:49 this course, 15, 15, we're, we're actually halfway through another one
00:37:49 --> 00:37:53 about 15 and a half times, and it's like a, a 12, 14 week course that
00:37:53 --> 00:37:55 we just go through re repetitively.
00:37:55 --> 00:37:59 'cause we just wanna continually get better at our
00:37:59 --> 00:38:00 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, yes.
00:38:00 --> 00:38:01 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: You just don't, you don't trip and
00:38:01 --> 00:38:02 fall and have a good marriage.
00:38:02 --> 00:38:03 So that, so
00:38:03 --> 00:38:05 when you talk about coaching and just being intentional,
00:38:05 --> 00:38:06 I think that's another thing
00:38:06 --> 00:38:07 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Being intentional.
00:38:07 --> 00:38:08 I like that.
00:38:09 --> 00:38:12 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: about what, what you want to see on your tombstone.
00:38:12 --> 00:38:16 You know, how many, how many hours a day do you spend working on, you
00:38:16 --> 00:38:18 know, loving, husband, father, friend,
00:38:19 --> 00:38:20 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Right?
00:38:20 --> 00:38:22 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: how many hours of your day are committed to
00:38:22 --> 00:38:23 what's gonna be on your tombstone?
00:38:24 --> 00:38:27 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: I this, this shows a, a definite weakness of me.
00:38:28 --> 00:38:33 I called my brother the other day and he's like, or I text him, he says,
00:38:33 --> 00:38:35 everything okay, what are you doing?
00:38:35 --> 00:38:37 I said, I am really terrible.
00:38:38 --> 00:38:43 Maintaining relationships with friends and I need to do a better job.
00:38:44 --> 00:38:45 And of course, it's my brother.
00:38:45 --> 00:38:48 I'm just like, so I'm trying to be a better friend here.
00:38:48 --> 00:38:49 He's like, oh.
00:38:49 --> 00:38:51 He's like, actually, I agree.
00:38:51 --> 00:38:51 You
00:38:51 --> 00:38:54 know, we all need that.
00:38:54 --> 00:38:57 Eric, I wanna jump back just a little bit to that.
00:38:58 --> 00:39:02 When you had all those stakeholders in the room and getting started, how
00:39:03 --> 00:39:05 difficult was it to get their buy-in?
00:39:06 --> 00:39:08 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: You know, I really thought the
00:39:08 --> 00:39:11 environmental side of things was gonna to be the most challenging.
00:39:12 --> 00:39:12 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh,
00:39:12 --> 00:39:12 yes.
00:39:13 --> 00:39:14 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: and that was not the case.
00:39:14 --> 00:39:15 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
00:39:15 --> 00:39:16 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: it was not.
00:39:16 --> 00:39:18 I, I mean, they, they're like, no, no, no.
00:39:18 --> 00:39:22 We, we understand how important livestock can be under.
00:39:22 --> 00:39:23 Proper management.
00:39:24 --> 00:39:24 I think that
00:39:24 --> 00:39:27 was, that was the, the crux of it all.
00:39:27 --> 00:39:28 And that's really what
00:39:28 --> 00:39:31 I was driving home was that, you know, Fred Provenza will say,
00:39:31 --> 00:39:33 meat is not, meat is not meat.
00:39:33 --> 00:39:35 You know, and it's like, grazing is not, grazing is not grazing.
00:39:36 --> 00:39:36 There is a difference.
00:39:37 --> 00:39:37 There's a difference.
00:39:38 --> 00:39:41 When I'm out here, I'm the belly button range control those folks I was
00:39:41 --> 00:39:42 telling you about who run the ranges.
00:39:42 --> 00:39:45 If, if a cow gets out or something like that, they're gonna call me,
00:39:45 --> 00:39:47 you know, and they're, I'm gonna ride out there on my four-wheeler and I'm
00:39:47 --> 00:39:49 gonna go get that cow off the range.
00:39:49 --> 00:39:52 You know, like, it, the management is so different, it's personal.
00:39:52 --> 00:39:53 They know me.
00:39:54 --> 00:39:58 So that, that was, it was actually a fairly easy don't
00:39:58 --> 00:40:00 wanna call it sell, but you know,
00:40:00 --> 00:40:01 that it's it's really
00:40:01 --> 00:40:02 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: but But you are selling
00:40:02 --> 00:40:02 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: yeah.
00:40:02 --> 00:40:04 We were selling, I was a salesman in there.
00:40:04 --> 00:40:07 The one who I was really most nervous about was, was the rancher,
00:40:07 --> 00:40:08 was meeting, was meeting the
00:40:08 --> 00:40:11 rancher, you know, because he's, he's a third generation rancher.
00:40:11 --> 00:40:13 He's got a thousand cows.
00:40:13 --> 00:40:16 This, this is one of his, you know, seven different leases.
00:40:16 --> 00:40:16 He's.
00:40:16 --> 00:40:16 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Right.
00:40:16 --> 00:40:18 Who are you telling me what
00:40:18 --> 00:40:18 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yeah.
00:40:18 --> 00:40:22 Who's this guy in a, you know, this camouflage, she's trying
00:40:22 --> 00:40:23 to talk to me about cows.
00:40:23 --> 00:40:25 Like, I know cows.
00:40:25 --> 00:40:27 What are you, what are you, what are you doing?
00:40:27 --> 00:40:31 And really, I just can't, I, I talk to Mark, you know, talk about
00:40:31 --> 00:40:32 maintaining a relationship with friends.
00:40:32 --> 00:40:34 I talk to Mark very free.
00:40:34 --> 00:40:37 I don't think we talk every day, but maybe every other day we're
00:40:37 --> 00:40:38 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
00:40:39 --> 00:40:40 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: and, 'cause I'm, I'm always trying to,
00:40:40 --> 00:40:43 I always wanna try something new, you know, something kind of crazy.
00:40:43 --> 00:40:46 And I'm, and Mark's always like, all right, I'll, I'll,
00:40:47 --> 00:40:49 and I just keep kind of pushing.
00:40:49 --> 00:40:52 Like, for example, we have we have some areas that aren't typically grazed.
00:40:53 --> 00:40:56 They're outside of those, those 500 acre enclosures.
00:40:56 --> 00:40:56 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh
00:40:56 --> 00:40:58 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: down here we call it containment area.
00:40:58 --> 00:41:03 So it's like by the buildings, you know, where maybe not training's
00:41:03 --> 00:41:07 happening, but, but maybe more like classroom type things are happening.
00:41:07 --> 00:41:08 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
00:41:08 --> 00:41:10 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: And so there's just some big flat wide
00:41:10 --> 00:41:15 open spaces and I'm like, Hey Mark, can I get some of those older cows?
00:41:15 --> 00:41:17 Let me pull some of those down and I'll put 'em down here.
00:41:17 --> 00:41:21 And because I, I talked to the, the landscaping crew and they think it'd
00:41:21 --> 00:41:23 be really cool to not have to mow that.
00:41:23 --> 00:41:24 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:41:24 --> 00:41:26 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: and he is like, ah, man, if those cows
00:41:26 --> 00:41:29 get out though, you know, they're, that's the highway's not that far.
00:41:29 --> 00:41:30 I'm like, yeah, I know Mark.
00:41:30 --> 00:41:31 I got, I just trust me this.
00:41:32 --> 00:41:34 And so it's, it's been really cool.
00:41:34 --> 00:41:37 And Mark, I'm not gonna say we haven't, especially during that training phase,
00:41:38 --> 00:41:43 you know, when we had, we brought all 140 pairs down in the training paddock, had
00:41:43 --> 00:41:48 the poly wire set up, had 'em on there in an acre and a half, and we're like, here's
00:41:48 --> 00:41:50 how we're gonna train with this hot wire.
00:41:50 --> 00:41:53 It's gonna be pretty intense for a little while.
00:41:53 --> 00:41:56 And I just remember him sitting there kind of being like, whew, know, that's
00:41:56 --> 00:41:58 a lot of cows all mobbed up like this.
00:41:58 --> 00:41:58 And
00:41:59 --> 00:42:00 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Yes.
00:42:01 --> 00:42:01 Yeah.
00:42:01 --> 00:42:03 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: But it, again, I, I keep telling Mark, I'm
00:42:03 --> 00:42:05 like, he is the partner of choice.
00:42:05 --> 00:42:06 It has been awesome.
00:42:06 --> 00:42:07 I've learned a
00:42:07 --> 00:42:08 ton from him.
00:42:08 --> 00:42:10 So I'm, I'm really appreciative.
00:42:10 --> 00:42:12 But, sorry, that's a long answer to the, that.
00:42:13 --> 00:42:15 What was it like being in that meeting?
00:42:15 --> 00:42:17 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Was there resistance from who?
00:42:18 --> 00:42:20 Who gave the most resistance
00:42:20 --> 00:42:21 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: I, you know, it,
00:42:21 --> 00:42:24 it honestly was, yeah, it was kind of the range control.
00:42:24 --> 00:42:25 'cause they were like,
00:42:25 --> 00:42:27 listen, we, we've had grazing out here.
00:42:27 --> 00:42:28 It's not broke.
00:42:28 --> 00:42:28 Why fix it?
00:42:29 --> 00:42:32 You know, now we're gonna have to kind of coordinate with you
00:42:32 --> 00:42:33 about where you're gonna be.
00:42:33 --> 00:42:33 And,
00:42:34 --> 00:42:38 and I was like, Hey, we, we actually will make it more predictable for you.
00:42:38 --> 00:42:44 You know, I can tell you you're gonna have pasture map pulled up, you
00:42:44 --> 00:42:45 know, next to your computer on there.
00:42:45 --> 00:42:46 That'll be on one screen.
00:42:46 --> 00:42:49 Your other screen will have like what units are training and where
00:42:50 --> 00:42:51 you'll be able to overlay those.
00:42:51 --> 00:42:54 So you'll know exactly what Grid Square might the cows are.
00:42:54 --> 00:42:56 You know, you'll know exactly where they are.
00:42:56 --> 00:42:57 'cause they'll be on this.
00:42:57 --> 00:42:59 Eight acre paddock for today.
00:42:59 --> 00:43:02 Then tomorrow they're gonna be on a different one, you know?
00:43:02 --> 00:43:03 And, and you.
00:43:03 --> 00:43:07 So we actually can work hand in hand and we'll work a whole lot better together.
00:43:07 --> 00:43:09 There won't be as many surprises, you know, we're gonna be,
00:43:10 --> 00:43:11 we're gonna be best buds.
00:43:13 --> 00:43:13 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Right.
00:43:13 --> 00:43:17 It, it, it's kind of like when I talk to hunters that's got land
00:43:17 --> 00:43:20 and they're like, well, cattle out there is gonna interrupt my honey.
00:43:21 --> 00:43:24 You know, when we're, we're moving these cattle, they're only on a
00:43:24 --> 00:43:26 small percentage of their land,
00:43:26 --> 00:43:28 of the total land.
00:43:28 --> 00:43:32 They're not roaming over the whole place, and I'm being very deliberate
00:43:32 --> 00:43:36 about where I'm having them go and what I'm doing with them.
00:43:37 --> 00:43:40 So if there's a certain time you're going to be hunting in a
00:43:40 --> 00:43:44 certain area, we can make sure the cows aren't going to be there.
00:43:45 --> 00:43:46 Simple as that.
00:43:46 --> 00:43:50 now now that's a little, they're always like, are you sure?
00:43:50 --> 00:43:51 Yeah.
00:43:51 --> 00:43:52 I, I got this.
00:43:52 --> 00:43:54 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: just we can do this.
00:43:54 --> 00:43:54 Yeah.
00:43:55 --> 00:43:55 Yeah.
00:43:55 --> 00:43:59 And, and so when I meet with, you know, I'll, I'll have people who are kind
00:43:59 --> 00:44:03 of sitting in a room and I'm briefing, you know, I've, I've done this a few
00:44:03 --> 00:44:06 times, talked to, you know, amp Grazing 1 0 1, here's how we do it on DOD land.
00:44:07 --> 00:44:10 And I see a few people with their arms crossed, and, and I'll say, Hey, I
00:44:10 --> 00:44:13 bet you've been stationed somewhere where cows shut down your training.
00:44:14 --> 00:44:14 You know?
00:44:15 --> 00:44:17 'cause there are bases, there are quite a few bases who do graze.
00:44:17 --> 00:44:22 And they're like, yeah, yeah, I'm, I was at one of those bases and I don't, I don't
00:44:22 --> 00:44:24 think this is a good fit for, you know,
00:44:24 --> 00:44:25 X space that you wanna do this at.
00:44:26 --> 00:44:29 Because, you know, I say, you know, we're not turning this into a dude ranch.
00:44:29 --> 00:44:30 You know exactly what
00:44:30 --> 00:44:31 you said, Kyle.
00:44:31 --> 00:44:33 It's like, I, I, I know where they're gonna be.
00:44:34 --> 00:44:35 It's in our grazing plan.
00:44:35 --> 00:44:35 You know, like,
00:44:36 --> 00:44:37 here's where they're gonna be.
00:44:37 --> 00:44:40 And guess what, if a unit needs to train in that spot and you don't want
00:44:40 --> 00:44:42 livestock there, we'll move them.
00:44:43 --> 00:44:46 We had a cool, we had, they have four legs.
00:44:46 --> 00:44:48 We'll, we'll, we'll move them out.
00:44:49 --> 00:44:49 We can do that.
00:44:49 --> 00:44:50 It's pretty simple.
00:44:50 --> 00:44:52 We had a really cool story.
00:44:52 --> 00:44:57 The California National Guard was doing a best warrior competition at
00:44:57 --> 00:44:59 multiple bases, and one of their stops was here.
00:44:59 --> 00:45:02 And so they kind, you know, they're running all throughout the night.
00:45:02 --> 00:45:03 They're not really sleeping much.
00:45:03 --> 00:45:05 They're, they're shooting at ranges.
00:45:05 --> 00:45:10 And so then we, there, there's a land navigation portion.
00:45:10 --> 00:45:12 So they have a map and a compass and they gotta find their way.
00:45:13 --> 00:45:19 And a friend of mine is, is kind of in charge of that portion.
00:45:19 --> 00:45:22 And I was like, Hey, I'm, I just wanna make sure we have the cows
00:45:22 --> 00:45:25 moved out before you guys move, you know, before you guys go over there.
00:45:26 --> 00:45:27 What day do you wanna have 'em out?
00:45:28 --> 00:45:29 You know, I'll, I'll, I'll move them over here.
00:45:29 --> 00:45:33 And he's like, no, I think this would be a really cool proof of
00:45:33 --> 00:45:38 concept to see if we can do land nav and graze, like in the same area.
00:45:39 --> 00:45:39 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
00:45:40 --> 00:45:41 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: And so I'm like, okay.
00:45:41 --> 00:45:45 I, I think it's a really good idea too, because the, the Army's tool
00:45:45 --> 00:45:47 traditionally is, is control burn.
00:45:47 --> 00:45:49 That's how you knock down vegetation
00:45:50 --> 00:45:54 in these areas where that, where, where you can't put mowers in.
00:45:54 --> 00:45:57 And so we thought, well, let's do this at the same time.
00:45:58 --> 00:46:01 So during the safety brief, you know, they, they're learning,
00:46:01 --> 00:46:05 here's how we polywire.
00:46:05 --> 00:46:07 I showed 'em, here's the polywire,
00:46:07 --> 00:46:08 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Don't touch it or you will regret
00:46:09 --> 00:46:09 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: That's right.
00:46:09 --> 00:46:10 Yeah.
00:46:10 --> 00:46:11 It's self-correcting.
00:46:12 --> 00:46:12 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: It is.
00:46:13 --> 00:46:14 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: And I showed 'em, you just step
00:46:14 --> 00:46:15 on it, you know, you put your
00:46:15 --> 00:46:15 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:46:15 --> 00:46:18 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: you step on it, you walk in, you go find your point.
00:46:19 --> 00:46:21 There'll be some cows who probably look at you for a second, then they're gonna
00:46:21 --> 00:46:23 put their head down and go back to eating.
00:46:24 --> 00:46:24 Don't worry about them.
00:46:25 --> 00:46:27 And then you'll walk out and it's no big deal.
00:46:28 --> 00:46:29 And so we did that.
00:46:29 --> 00:46:31 So they, they went through the whole night.
00:46:31 --> 00:46:33 No one got, no one got shocked to my knowledge.
00:46:33 --> 00:46:33 Or
00:46:33 --> 00:46:34 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: well good.
00:46:34 --> 00:46:35 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: maybe they didn't tell me.
00:46:35 --> 00:46:35 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Yeah.
00:46:35 --> 00:46:36 They may have been a little embarrassed
00:46:36 --> 00:46:38 to tell you, Hey, my funny bone hurt.
00:46:39 --> 00:46:40 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: But no, no, no.
00:46:40 --> 00:46:40 Cows got out.
00:46:40 --> 00:46:41 No cows got out.
00:46:41 --> 00:46:41 We
00:46:42 --> 00:46:42 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: well,
00:46:42 --> 00:46:43 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: So it was just a cool story of like,
00:46:43 --> 00:46:48 we're not only training, but we are like creating resilient training
00:46:48 --> 00:46:50 areas at the exact same time.
00:46:51 --> 00:46:55 Like we didn't need to do this huge, you know, big shift.
00:46:55 --> 00:46:58 And a lot of, a lot of folks will tell us like, okay, I think this
00:46:58 --> 00:47:01 could work in, in this area because there's no training over there.
00:47:01 --> 00:47:02 And I said, no,
00:47:02 --> 00:47:02 no, no.
00:47:02 --> 00:47:02 no.
00:47:03 --> 00:47:05 can create the best training environments.
00:47:06 --> 00:47:12 We can mission scape, we can, we can create areas that withstand
00:47:13 --> 00:47:14 or, or are better remediated.
00:47:14 --> 00:47:21 You know, after a tank rolls through with with a, with a, with a hooed animal,
00:47:21 --> 00:47:25 then with whatever it is you're gonna, the money and mechanical intervention
00:47:25 --> 00:47:26 you're gonna try and spend out
00:47:26 --> 00:47:27 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:47:27 --> 00:47:28 Yeah.
00:47:30 --> 00:47:34 With going through this and getting it started that warrior deal was
00:47:34 --> 00:47:38 something you didn't anticipate, but you all were able to, to work
00:47:38 --> 00:47:39 with that and get it working.
00:47:40 --> 00:47:44 Was there any, has there been anything going through that you're like, oh,
00:47:44 --> 00:47:46 I should have done different here?
00:47:46 --> 00:47:52 Or have has anyone that had buy-in at the first, I know we're still fairly early,
00:47:53 --> 00:47:57 are looking at it saying, Hey, that's not working as I thought it would.
00:47:57 --> 00:47:57 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Hmm.
00:47:59 --> 00:48:00 Yeah, that's a good question.
00:48:01 --> 00:48:04 You know, I, what is kind of, right now, as I told you,
00:48:04 --> 00:48:05 we're grazing the impact area.
00:48:05 --> 00:48:06 So this is like
00:48:06 --> 00:48:08 where where they're actually shooting.
00:48:09 --> 00:48:13 So instead of, and it's not typically grazed, this is normally it's just
00:48:13 --> 00:48:15 controlled, burned, but we said,
00:48:15 --> 00:48:17 Hey, can we, can we graze that?
00:48:18 --> 00:48:18 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:48:18 --> 00:48:21 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: because it is, it is continually burned.
00:48:22 --> 00:48:25 It, there's not a ton of forage out there, but what is out there is a
00:48:25 --> 00:48:27 bunch of like fillery and chicory.
00:48:27 --> 00:48:30 And so it's, I mean, it's the, the cows, the cows are actually
00:48:30 --> 00:48:31 doing pretty well on it.
00:48:31 --> 00:48:36 And so we said instead of fencing them and moving them every single day,
00:48:36 --> 00:48:41 right now we're just gonna exclude areas where we don't want them to walk.
00:48:41 --> 00:48:42 So we have these target,
00:48:42 --> 00:48:47 we have target lifters that are solar powered, so they, like a
00:48:47 --> 00:48:50 target will spring up for three seconds and then it'll go back down.
00:48:51 --> 00:48:54 And so that's the opportunity for the soldier to engage that target.
00:48:55 --> 00:48:58 And so those are all, again, solar powered.
00:48:58 --> 00:49:01 They don't want cows stepping on the solar panels.
00:49:01 --> 00:49:02 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:49:02 --> 00:49:07 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: some of that and that we came out the
00:49:07 --> 00:49:10 next day and cows are all over it.
00:49:10 --> 00:49:11 And I'm like, what in the world?
00:49:12 --> 00:49:15 How are these cows all over these, this area?
00:49:15 --> 00:49:18 We exclude 'em and I, as I drive up there and get closer.
00:49:19 --> 00:49:20 Those ring tails.
00:49:20 --> 00:49:22 It's like the, it is like they saw those ring tail, those we have those
00:49:22 --> 00:49:25 Orange Gallagher step-in posts from
00:49:25 --> 00:49:29 fl, we bought 'em from Gallagher step and, and they shot 'em all up.
00:49:30 --> 00:49:31 I mean, it was like, it was pretty
00:49:31 --> 00:49:31 impressive.
00:49:31 --> 00:49:35 So the wire was all shot all over the ground and we're like, okay.
00:49:35 --> 00:49:40 So the lesson here being we need to do a little bit more standoff.
00:49:40 --> 00:49:43 These need to be a little bit further away from the targets.
00:49:43 --> 00:49:43 I don't think they
00:49:43 --> 00:49:47 intentionally, they didn't intentionally shoot 'em, but they were so close.
00:49:47 --> 00:49:49 'cause I wanted every blade of grass that could be eaten,
00:49:50 --> 00:49:50 eaten,
00:49:50 --> 00:49:51 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: right.
00:49:51 --> 00:49:53 Naturally as a grazier, we want to include
00:49:53 --> 00:49:55 every inch we can.
00:49:55 --> 00:49:56 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: every piece I could.
00:49:56 --> 00:50:00 And so I'm like, well, next time I think I'm gonna have 'em, I'm gonna
00:50:00 --> 00:50:03 sacrifice a little bit of grass
00:50:03 --> 00:50:03 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, yeah.
00:50:03 --> 00:50:05 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: and, and pull 'em back a little bit further.
00:50:06 --> 00:50:11 Because we, I was really priding myself in how we hadn't had cows walk onto ranges.
00:50:11 --> 00:50:12 We hadn't had
00:50:12 --> 00:50:13 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:50:13 --> 00:50:15 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: who had disrupted training.
00:50:16 --> 00:50:19 And so when I, I mean my stomach was just like in my throat as
00:50:19 --> 00:50:21 I drove out there and I saw,
00:50:21 --> 00:50:22 I'm like, oh no.
00:50:22 --> 00:50:27 Well, I mean, there's not much you can do for shot up Polywire,
00:50:27 --> 00:50:28 but it was a lesson learned.
00:50:29 --> 00:50:29 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: It.
00:50:29 --> 00:50:30 Yeah.
00:50:30 --> 00:50:32 You learn from it and you move on.
00:50:32 --> 00:50:32 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yeah.
00:50:32 --> 00:50:32 Yes.
00:50:33 --> 00:50:33 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Yeah.
00:50:34 --> 00:50:34 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: I,
00:50:35 --> 00:50:38 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: I believe you're less than a year into the project now.
00:50:38 --> 00:50:40 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: yeah, we're seven months, we're
00:50:40 --> 00:50:41 Seven months.
00:50:41 --> 00:50:41 in.
00:50:41 --> 00:50:41 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: How?
00:50:41 --> 00:50:43 How long does the project run?
00:50:44 --> 00:50:46 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Well, we want it to go for five years.
00:50:46 --> 00:50:47 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, okay.
00:50:47 --> 00:50:51 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: but funding is always an issue and so we're, we're
00:50:51 --> 00:50:55 continue to looking for partners and way to continue to keep doing this.
00:50:55 --> 00:50:57 We know, I mean, we talked to like Dr.
00:50:57 --> 00:51:02 Allen Williams and you know, we, soil does need, we'll see changes.
00:51:02 --> 00:51:02 Right?
00:51:02 --> 00:51:02 We'll
00:51:03 --> 00:51:03 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, you will?
00:51:03 --> 00:51:05 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: And we're seeing some really cool stuff.
00:51:05 --> 00:51:06 I mean, we're seeing.
00:51:07 --> 00:51:10 Like this Turkey flock that is just following these cows.
00:51:10 --> 00:51:15 And, and folks who have been here for, you know, 6, 8, 10 years, they're like,
00:51:15 --> 00:51:18 this is the biggest flock ever, we've
00:51:18 --> 00:51:18 ever seen.
00:51:18 --> 00:51:23 It's like four times the size and then the ranchers like, you know, I, I, I used to
00:51:23 --> 00:51:28 see deer like, kind of out in the bushes, but I've never seen them out in the open.
00:51:28 --> 00:51:30 Like, they're like, they're moving.
00:51:30 --> 00:51:30 You know,
00:51:31 --> 00:51:31 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
00:51:32 --> 00:51:34 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: they're, following this herd as these cows go
00:51:34 --> 00:51:42 through and have some positive, you know, disruption and they're, they're
00:51:42 --> 00:51:45 removing all that thatch, you know, it's, so that's been really cool to see.
00:51:45 --> 00:51:46 But, you know,
00:51:46 --> 00:51:46 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, very good.
00:51:46 --> 00:51:49 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: he'll say, you know, Alan will say, you know, two
00:51:49 --> 00:51:53 to three years before soil, soil really knows it's under new, new ownership,
00:51:54 --> 00:51:55 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, yes, yes,
00:51:55 --> 00:51:56 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: We're having Actis.
00:51:57 --> 00:51:58 So Dr.
00:51:58 --> 00:52:02 Jonathan Lundgren and his team is gonna be out here to do a
00:52:02 --> 00:52:06 bunch of baseline measurements between I think in a couple days.
00:52:06 --> 00:52:06 Yeah.
00:52:06 --> 00:52:06 Sunday.
00:52:06 --> 00:52:07 Sunday they'll get here.
00:52:07 --> 00:52:10 We'll, we'll do Camp Roberts and we're gonna do Camp San Luis Obisbo.
00:52:12 --> 00:52:15 Pretty excited to have some baseline and then we will revisit those annually.
00:52:16 --> 00:52:16 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, yes.
00:52:17 --> 00:52:17 Yeah.
00:52:18 --> 00:52:21 What's the the future hold for you there?
00:52:21 --> 00:52:24 Are you gonna be able to be out there through the whole project?
00:52:24 --> 00:52:25 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: I hope so.
00:52:25 --> 00:52:26 As long as I can be,
00:52:27 --> 00:52:28 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, right.
00:52:28 --> 00:52:29 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: letting me do this and lead this
00:52:29 --> 00:52:31 innovative innovative range.
00:52:32 --> 00:52:32 Boy.
00:52:32 --> 00:52:33 Yeah.
00:52:33 --> 00:52:34 We'll have to edit, edit that part out.
00:52:35 --> 00:52:41 As long as the army lets me lead this innovative range
00:52:41 --> 00:52:43 and land management program.
00:52:44 --> 00:52:45 I'll stay here and do it
00:52:45 --> 00:52:50 because I, I, I really see this as it could revolutionize how we
00:52:50 --> 00:52:52 maintain our, our training areas.
00:52:53 --> 00:52:54 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:52:54 --> 00:52:54 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: really,
00:52:54 --> 00:52:58 we don't, we don't fight on concrete pads all the time.
00:52:58 --> 00:53:03 You know, we, we don't, we do train and shoot houses and we do that, but we do
00:53:03 --> 00:53:05 also need to train on a big open areas.
00:53:05 --> 00:53:06 And to me, this is the
00:53:06 --> 00:53:09 best way we can manage, we can manage these big open areas.
00:53:10 --> 00:53:10 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Yeah.
00:53:11 --> 00:53:11 Yes.
00:53:11 --> 00:53:13 I, I totally agree.
00:53:13 --> 00:53:16 . You mentioned earlier you, you're using Pasure Map.
00:53:16 --> 00:53:17 How has that worked for you?
00:53:18 --> 00:53:19 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: We like it.
00:53:19 --> 00:53:22 I was, before, you know, you, you have to pay for it.
00:53:22 --> 00:53:22 Right.
00:53:22 --> 00:53:23 But, so
00:53:23 --> 00:53:25 before that I was using Cal Topo, which
00:53:25 --> 00:53:26 is not great.
00:53:26 --> 00:53:29 I mean, it was a good, it was a good like, initial mapping,
00:53:30 --> 00:53:32 but you can't, it just doesn't track the historics.
00:53:32 --> 00:53:37 I mean, I don't even understand all of the, all of the good
00:53:37 --> 00:53:40 things past your map can show you.
00:53:40 --> 00:53:42 But what was cool is they'll sit on the phone with you, they'll get
00:53:42 --> 00:53:44 on a zoom with you and explain.
00:53:45 --> 00:53:49 They were like, I, my wife and I, we were trying to like move these pastures
00:53:49 --> 00:53:54 these and sent them in a email at like 10 30, you know, 'cause we're, we get work
00:53:54 --> 00:53:58 done when the girls, you know, when the, when our daughters are asleep, right?
00:53:58 --> 00:53:59 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Right, right.
00:53:59 --> 00:54:02 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: And like 10 35, someone's replying with like, how
00:54:02 --> 00:54:04 to troubleshoot adding in this line.
00:54:05 --> 00:54:05 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh,
00:54:05 --> 00:54:07 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: I've been really impressed with that, that their
00:54:07 --> 00:54:08 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, very
00:54:08 --> 00:54:08 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yeah.
00:54:08 --> 00:54:10 So that, that was pretty neat.
00:54:10 --> 00:54:11 And, and we do like it.
00:54:11 --> 00:54:14 I mean, that allows me, you know, we have a, we have an intern
00:54:14 --> 00:54:16 from Cal Poly, his name's Miles.
00:54:17 --> 00:54:18 He's awesome.
00:54:18 --> 00:54:20 And that's like a super help.
00:54:20 --> 00:54:22 'cause I can just pull out my phone and be like, all right, here's,
00:54:22 --> 00:54:24 here's where we're gonna go today.
00:54:24 --> 00:54:25 Here's what the map looks like.
00:54:27 --> 00:54:29 And then we're gonna go out there and figure out if that's even possible.
00:54:30 --> 00:54:32 You know, we, we have some challenging terrain out here, so
00:54:33 --> 00:54:33 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh
00:54:33 --> 00:54:35 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: great, but you gotta, you gotta walk it too.
00:54:37 --> 00:54:38 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Yeah.
00:54:39 --> 00:54:43 Before we move to our famous four, is there anything we didn't
00:54:43 --> 00:54:46 talk about that you thought, Hey, we should get that covered?
00:54:46 --> 00:54:47 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yeah.
00:54:47 --> 00:54:51 You know, I just, I really wanna stress that like what we're doing
00:54:51 --> 00:54:58 here, you know, is, is benefiting the military, you know, and, and,
00:54:58 --> 00:54:59 but it's a, it's a systems, right?
00:54:59 --> 00:55:01 We look at, we're, we're not, we don't look at linear reduction
00:55:01 --> 00:55:02 of science anymore, right?
00:55:02 --> 00:55:04 We wanna take a systems approach.
00:55:04 --> 00:55:07 And so, yes, it's, it's benefiting the military.
00:55:08 --> 00:55:11 Undoubtedly, you know, the war fighter is gonna have the most pristine,
00:55:11 --> 00:55:16 well-maintained, well-managed training areas and ranges.
00:55:16 --> 00:55:20 When we offer land access to folks who know what we're doing.
00:55:20 --> 00:55:24 You know, your listeners, you know, we're, we're preaching to the converted here.
00:55:24 --> 00:55:24 I don't think that's
00:55:24 --> 00:55:26 like a real, they're like, yeah, we get it.
00:55:26 --> 00:55:28 I've seen this on my landscape.
00:55:28 --> 00:55:30 I've seen how, I've seen how this reacts.
00:55:30 --> 00:55:33 Like I can look at my neighbor's place and look at my place and go,
00:55:33 --> 00:55:35 what would be a better training area?
00:55:35 --> 00:55:37 Where could you actually drive a tractor vehicle?
00:55:37 --> 00:55:38 Where could, where could.
00:55:39 --> 00:55:42 People practice bounding and maneuver in a base of fire.
00:55:42 --> 00:55:43 How, how would we do that?
00:55:43 --> 00:55:47 Well, you'd wanna do it, you know, I, I'd wanna do it at, at
00:55:47 --> 00:55:49 one of these ranches that are
00:55:49 --> 00:55:50 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:55:50 --> 00:55:50 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: you know?
00:55:51 --> 00:55:53 And so that, that makes sense.
00:55:53 --> 00:55:55 But then we also see the wind for the rancher.
00:55:55 --> 00:55:59 You know, the, the, we're seeing the animal performance out here.
00:55:59 --> 00:56:03 We're seeing just the, the temperament that's changing, which
00:56:03 --> 00:56:05 is really, really cool to see.
00:56:05 --> 00:56:08 And the rancher loves coming out here and seeing all his cows.
00:56:09 --> 00:56:10 They're right there.
00:56:10 --> 00:56:10 You know, they're,
00:56:11 --> 00:56:11 they're,
00:56:11 --> 00:56:12 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: yeah.
00:56:12 --> 00:56:13 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: they're not all over.
00:56:13 --> 00:56:14 They're right there.
00:56:15 --> 00:56:16 And so that's been neat.
00:56:16 --> 00:56:19 And the environmental team is a big fan of this, you know, 'cause they're like,
00:56:19 --> 00:56:23 well we have some cultural sensitive sites on our base that I can put a poly wire
00:56:23 --> 00:56:25 around so the cows aren't going on there.
00:56:25 --> 00:56:26 You know,
00:56:26 --> 00:56:29 there's some, yeah, there's a Churro Creek Bog Thistle.
00:56:29 --> 00:56:30 Well, we'll exclude that.
00:56:30 --> 00:56:33 We won't, that's a threaten and endangered species.
00:56:33 --> 00:56:34 You don't want us in there.
00:56:34 --> 00:56:35 I can this.
00:56:35 --> 00:56:38 This magic white wire will keep them out of there.
00:56:38 --> 00:56:39 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: right.
00:56:39 --> 00:56:42 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: And so it's, it's been as you were just seeing a
00:56:42 --> 00:56:46 lot of, and, and as I mentioned like the, the landscaping crew who the other
00:56:46 --> 00:56:51 day said, Hey, we just really wanna thank you for grazing around that area,
00:56:51 --> 00:56:54 that, that's really challenging for us.
00:56:54 --> 00:56:56 We have to be up there with weed whackers, you know, we can't,
00:56:57 --> 00:56:58 we can't be up there on a mower.
00:56:58 --> 00:56:59 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:56:59 --> 00:57:00 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: thanks for grazing that area.
00:57:00 --> 00:57:02 That's, that's historically not grazed.
00:57:03 --> 00:57:06 So we're seeing all sorts of these, like, these winds and, you know,
00:57:06 --> 00:57:08 we're saving, we're saving money.
00:57:08 --> 00:57:11 We're hopefully making the, the rancher more money.
00:57:11 --> 00:57:12 We wanna see increased weaning weights.
00:57:12 --> 00:57:14 We really think this next year is gonna be interesting when
00:57:14 --> 00:57:17 we see the conception the breed
00:57:17 --> 00:57:18 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
00:57:18 --> 00:57:20 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: typically those bulls, you know, he is got
00:57:20 --> 00:57:24 eight bulls out there that are working 2 acres collectively, you know,
00:57:24 --> 00:57:30 whereas now we had, we had eight bulls on eight acres with 140 cows.
00:57:30 --> 00:57:33 You know, it's like they're gonna make their way around to everybody.
00:57:34 --> 00:57:36 You know, so so we're
00:57:36 --> 00:57:37 just seeing, it's
00:57:37 --> 00:57:37 just been really neat.
00:57:38 --> 00:57:41 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: and one thing I didn't hear mentioned there, which.
00:57:41 --> 00:57:46 I, I know you're aware of, but whenever we're out there with animals that
00:57:46 --> 00:57:51 much, it just makes subsequent times that we're out there so much better
00:57:51 --> 00:57:57 because those cows are so calm and tame versus cows that you go out and
00:57:57 --> 00:58:00 you check once a week from a pickup.
00:58:01 --> 00:58:03 It, it's just totally different
00:58:03 --> 00:58:04 in their attitude towards you.
00:58:05 --> 00:58:05 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: that's right.
00:58:06 --> 00:58:06 Yeah.
00:58:06 --> 00:58:06 Yeah.
00:58:06 --> 00:58:10 They see us and instead of turning and running, which induces stress,
00:58:10 --> 00:58:11 weight, you know, they're not gaining
00:58:11 --> 00:58:12 weight while they're running away from you.
00:58:13 --> 00:58:13 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: right.
00:58:14 --> 00:58:15 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: They just look at you and then they put their
00:58:15 --> 00:58:19 head back down and start eating again, and I'm like, well, that's good.
00:58:20 --> 00:58:20 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Yeah.
00:58:21 --> 00:58:22 Yeah.
00:58:22 --> 00:58:27 I, I love taking people out to see my, my cows because they're just so calm and
00:58:28 --> 00:58:30 it's just a, a good relationship there.
00:58:31 --> 00:58:34 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: And then, and then one thing we talk about is like, how
00:58:34 --> 00:58:36 do we, you know, how, where do we go from
00:58:36 --> 00:58:37 here?
00:58:37 --> 00:58:37 You know?
00:58:37 --> 00:58:41 And it's like, well, we see, you know, I talked to, you know, those
00:58:41 --> 00:58:46 folks like Alan Williams or Alejandro Carillo or Roger Savory, who's like,
00:58:46 --> 00:58:49 you know, I go out to these ranches and I'm noble, we talked to Noble.
00:58:49 --> 00:58:51 I went to their Land Essentials class, and they're like, we go out to these ranches.
00:58:52 --> 00:58:55 And they're like, well, I, I get what you're saying, but I
00:58:55 --> 00:58:57 could use some help doing this.
00:58:58 --> 00:59:02 And so a lot of like, what have I, I've experienced out here, and I've
00:59:02 --> 00:59:06 benefited from, I would almost feel selfish if I didn't say, Hey, this is
00:59:06 --> 00:59:09 a great vocational rehab program for
00:59:09 --> 00:59:10 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:59:11 --> 00:59:13 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: You know, like this, I can come out here.
00:59:13 --> 00:59:17 You, you know, you, unless you've gone and moved cows to a new piece
00:59:17 --> 00:59:20 of grass and felt that, you know, when everyone moves in there and
00:59:20 --> 00:59:23 they all just, there's a little bit of balling as they're going through
00:59:23 --> 00:59:27 the gate or, and then all of a sudden everyone's head's down and it's quiet.
00:59:27 --> 00:59:27 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:59:28 --> 00:59:29 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: And you're, you're looking
00:59:29 --> 00:59:30 around and you're observing.
00:59:30 --> 00:59:32 You're like, okay, did I overgraze that last one?
00:59:32 --> 00:59:34 You know, it's only a 24 hour mistake.
00:59:34 --> 00:59:36 I, I I'm giving them, you know, I gave 'em eight yesterday.
00:59:36 --> 00:59:38 Maybe I should have, I'll give 'em 10 tomorrow.
00:59:38 --> 00:59:38 You know?
00:59:38 --> 00:59:42 And it's just kind of a really cool, your mind's always working out there.
00:59:42 --> 00:59:45 You're paying attention, you, your head's on a swivel, especially if
00:59:45 --> 00:59:46 there's bulls out there, you know?
00:59:46 --> 00:59:50 But I mean, there's just a lot of, a lot of like healing that
00:59:50 --> 00:59:52 happening happens out there.
00:59:52 --> 00:59:52 And you're
00:59:52 --> 00:59:53 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
00:59:54 --> 00:59:56 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: I where I wanna get to is that we take this and
00:59:57 --> 01:00:01 we can train, we can bring in veterans leveraging the naval postgraduate
01:00:01 --> 01:00:04 schools, you know, the, the, our goal.
01:00:04 --> 01:00:09 And we're bringing them in and training the next generation of not
01:00:09 --> 01:00:12 only just land managers, but I, I kinda look at the next generation of
01:00:12 --> 01:00:14 DOD land managers so we can continue,
01:00:14 --> 01:00:15 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: yes.
01:00:15 --> 01:00:16 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: continue what I'm doing, you know?
01:00:16 --> 01:00:19 'cause just like you said, well, where, where are you going next?
01:00:19 --> 01:00:22 And I, I don't know, but this can, this should outlive me,
01:00:23 --> 01:00:24 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
01:00:24 --> 01:00:24 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: This is
01:00:24 --> 01:00:29 how we could manage, and the, the first principle of soil health is context.
01:00:29 --> 01:00:33 And who understands the context of these bases better than, than
01:00:33 --> 01:00:35 my fellow veterans, you know, who are like, yeah, I get it.
01:00:35 --> 01:00:40 These training, these bases exist first and foremost for the war fighter.
01:00:41 --> 01:00:44 And I, I'm, I'm not the main effort anymore, but I'm a shaping
01:00:44 --> 01:00:46 operation and I can help create
01:00:46 --> 01:00:51 the best training scenarios for, you know, those, those
01:00:51 --> 01:00:52 people who are serving after me,
01:00:53 --> 01:00:53 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Yeah.
01:00:53 --> 01:00:57 And that, that's an excellent point that we know, but
01:00:57 --> 01:00:59 sometimes we don't point it out.
01:00:59 --> 01:01:04 But in your context there, the most important aspect of
01:01:04 --> 01:01:05 that land is for training.
01:01:05 --> 01:01:05 The,
01:01:05 --> 01:01:06 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: right?
01:01:06 --> 01:01:09 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: the livestock are there just to help manage that
01:01:09 --> 01:01:09 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: They're a tool.
01:01:09 --> 01:01:10 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: and.
01:01:11 --> 01:01:13 Like when we talk about technology, technology is one
01:01:13 --> 01:01:15 of those things we love or hate.
01:01:15 --> 01:01:16 It depends on the day,
01:01:17 --> 01:01:19 but the goal of technology is to help you.
01:01:19 --> 01:01:22 And if you have to think about technology, I used to tell
01:01:22 --> 01:01:24 people this this whole time.
01:01:24 --> 01:01:26 If you had to think about your technology, our technology's
01:01:26 --> 01:01:28 not doing good enough for you.
01:01:28 --> 01:01:29 It should just work.
01:01:29 --> 01:01:35 So, so in that context there, those live suckers just gotta work for the soldiers.
01:01:36 --> 01:01:39 And they should be behind the scenes doing all the heavy work.
01:01:39 --> 01:01:39 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: I know.
01:01:39 --> 01:01:40 Yeah.
01:01:40 --> 01:01:43 And I, I mean, I can, I can keep pulling threads here, but I think about if
01:01:43 --> 01:01:47 you've seen those ula, those shipping containers that are USD inspected,
01:01:47 --> 01:01:48 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, yes.
01:01:48 --> 01:01:50 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: shipping containers, Reese la
01:01:50 --> 01:01:53 I've, I've got to know him and hi, him and his father run that.
01:01:53 --> 01:01:56 And I was like, this, this is what should be at every base.
01:01:57 --> 01:01:57 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh
01:01:57 --> 01:01:59 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: are they working to create training areas,
01:01:59 --> 01:02:01 but we're also closing the loop here.
01:02:01 --> 01:02:04 And we're, and we're making these bases a bit, they, they
01:02:04 --> 01:02:05 could island, you know, and these
01:02:06 --> 01:02:06 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
01:02:06 --> 01:02:08 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: have now have direct market.
01:02:09 --> 01:02:10 Two, these
01:02:10 --> 01:02:11 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
01:02:12 --> 01:02:12 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: you know, and it's, we're
01:02:12 --> 01:02:17 feeding nutrient dense food to our soldiers, sailors,
01:02:17 --> 01:02:19 marines, airmen, guardians
01:02:19 --> 01:02:20 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah,
01:02:21 --> 01:02:21 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: right here,
01:02:22 --> 01:02:22 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: yeah,
01:02:23 --> 01:02:23 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: but yeah.
01:02:24 --> 01:02:24 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: yeah.
01:02:24 --> 01:02:29 I, I, I, I think that's a great way to look at it and think about the
01:02:29 --> 01:02:31 future and, and think how we can do
01:02:31 --> 01:02:31 that.
01:02:32 --> 01:02:35 cause that's what we all should be doing anyway, is, is
01:02:35 --> 01:02:38 bringing that food cycle loop.
01:02:38 --> 01:02:42 I'm sure there's a technical name that escapes me right now, but closer to
01:02:42 --> 01:02:43 home.
01:02:44 --> 01:02:44 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yeah.
01:02:44 --> 01:02:44 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Yeah.
01:02:46 --> 01:02:48 Is it is it Fred in his book?
01:02:48 --> 01:02:48 Fred.
01:02:48 --> 01:02:49 Fred Pro.
01:02:50 --> 01:02:50 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Provina
01:02:51 --> 01:02:52 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Pro Provenza.
01:02:52 --> 01:02:52 Thank you.
01:02:53 --> 01:02:54 That, yeah.
01:02:54 --> 01:02:56 In nourishment, talk about that.
01:02:56 --> 01:03:00 The nutrients, the cattle eat, go.
01:03:01 --> 01:03:03 They're needed by the people who live in that
01:03:03 --> 01:03:07 area because it's, it's very local base, and I think maybe Daniel
01:03:07 --> 01:03:10 Griffith talks a little bit about that in one of his books as well.
01:03:11 --> 01:03:11 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yeah.
01:03:11 --> 01:03:17 I mean, n Nourishment is a great read for any, I mean, I'm sure most
01:03:17 --> 01:03:20 of your listeners know about it, but I really enjoyed that book.
01:03:20 --> 01:03:21 And, and Dr.
01:03:21 --> 01:03:25 Fred Provenza is also, he, we had like a speaking engagement and I
01:03:25 --> 01:03:30 was like, oh, can, can any of the greats come to a speaking engagement
01:03:30 --> 01:03:32 in no time at all, like tomorrow?
01:03:33 --> 01:03:34 And Dr.
01:03:34 --> 01:03:37 Fred Provina, I'd never met him, he just emailed me back the next day.
01:03:37 --> 01:03:39 He is like, yeah, oh, what, what
01:03:39 --> 01:03:40 time do you need me to show up today?
01:03:41 --> 01:03:42 And he did, he did an awesome job.
01:03:42 --> 01:03:44 Just, we had a DOD, like a working group.
01:03:44 --> 01:03:45 And he came in there
01:03:45 --> 01:03:45 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: oh,
01:03:45 --> 01:03:46 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: was, awesome.
01:03:47 --> 01:03:47 So
01:03:48 --> 01:03:48 awesome book.
01:03:49 --> 01:03:50 Even more awesome person.
01:03:51 --> 01:03:53 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: That, that's always good to know when you, when you
01:03:53 --> 01:03:59 know someone, but then you get to know 'em behind whatever screen, whatever page.
01:03:59 --> 01:04:02 You know 'em and you're like, oh, they're even better in
01:04:02 --> 01:04:02 person.
01:04:03 --> 01:04:06 Now, sadly, we're not gonna survey my guest on that because we don't want them
01:04:06 --> 01:04:08 saying anything bad, but we'll go ahead.
01:04:08 --> 01:04:09 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: that's
01:04:09 --> 01:04:09 right.
01:04:10 --> 01:04:12 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Our famous four questions, Eric,
01:04:12 --> 01:04:14 let's get started with them.
01:04:14 --> 01:04:16 They're same four questions we ask of all of our guests.
01:04:16 --> 01:04:20 And our first question, what is your favorite grazing grass
01:04:20 --> 01:04:22 related book or resource?
01:04:22 --> 01:04:24 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: I know we just talked about nourishment,
01:04:24 --> 01:04:27 so I won't say that one again.
01:04:27 --> 01:04:33 And I'm not gonna blow your mind, but Dirt to Soil was pretty transformative for me.
01:04:33 --> 01:04:36 Not only, I mean, I was also in a unique place.
01:04:36 --> 01:04:38 I told you I was in, I was in Afghanistan reading it.
01:04:38 --> 01:04:38 So
01:04:38 --> 01:04:40 there's a lot of things going on in my head and I'm like,
01:04:40 --> 01:04:42 the parallels are crazy here.
01:04:43 --> 01:04:47 But I really, really enjoyed that one, and that made a big difference.
01:04:47 --> 01:04:49 And I, I actually just read the Turnaround, A Ranching Story
01:04:50 --> 01:04:50 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, yes.
01:04:50 --> 01:04:54 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Brett, that that was also a really good book too.
01:04:55 --> 01:04:57 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Yeah, both the excellent books.
01:04:57 --> 01:05:00 For Gabe Brown, he's, he's close to where you grew
01:05:00 --> 01:05:03 up, up, north, so that helps out.
01:05:03 --> 01:05:04 Dave Pratt's book.
01:05:04 --> 01:05:05 I really like it.
01:05:06 --> 01:05:11 I'm not much on the fictional story to go with it, but there is, it's so
01:05:11 --> 01:05:14 informational or yeah, information dense.
01:05:14 --> 01:05:14 It's
01:05:14 --> 01:05:15 really nice.
01:05:15 --> 01:05:17 Yeah, I mean, it's not a bad read at all,
01:05:17 --> 01:05:21 but there's some things in there you gotta read over on just about those numbers
01:05:22 --> 01:05:25 and stuff as a primer for Ranching for Profit.
01:05:25 --> 01:05:26 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yep.
01:05:26 --> 01:05:27 Yeah.
01:05:28 --> 01:05:30 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: So excellent resources there, coupled with nourishment.
01:05:31 --> 01:05:35 Our second question, what is your favorite tool for the ranch?
01:05:35 --> 01:05:38 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: You know, I, so I've listened to this, so
01:05:38 --> 01:05:39 I was prepared for this question.
01:05:39 --> 01:05:39 You know,
01:05:40 --> 01:05:42 I would love to say, you know, four wheeler Polywire.
01:05:42 --> 01:05:49 But I, I remember my very first day, I, I just got selected to go to special forces.
01:05:49 --> 01:05:51 Captain's career course.
01:05:51 --> 01:05:51 So we
01:05:52 --> 01:05:52 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Okay.
01:05:52 --> 01:05:54 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: they had a, a small group of us.
01:05:54 --> 01:05:57 There's about 12 of us in this room, and our small group instructor walks
01:05:57 --> 01:06:01 in for the very first day and he walks in and he is like, all right, lesson
01:06:01 --> 01:06:04 one, always question the mission.
01:06:05 --> 01:06:08 And I was like, you know, I, I was an infantry man.
01:06:08 --> 01:06:11 And you don't, you don't question it, you know, it's
01:06:11 --> 01:06:12 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, right.
01:06:13 --> 01:06:15 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: you say, yes, sir, you move out, draw fire.
01:06:15 --> 01:06:18 You know, it's like there's not a whole lot of leeway.
01:06:18 --> 01:06:20 And so I just remember thinking, always question the mission, right?
01:06:20 --> 01:06:24 So, So, out here I've just always been like, well, is this
01:06:24 --> 01:06:25 the best way to be doing it?
01:06:25 --> 01:06:27 I think I'm like always questioning, I
01:06:27 --> 01:06:29 just always have this mindset of like, well, I could probably be doing
01:06:29 --> 01:06:34 this better, you know, or like, just because we've been doing it this way
01:06:34 --> 01:06:37 for a really long time, does that mean it's the best way to do it?
01:06:37 --> 01:06:40 And I, and that's how I kind of look at this land management, like how
01:06:40 --> 01:06:43 we've been managing this land for a really long, just because we've been
01:06:43 --> 01:06:45 doing it a really long time this way.
01:06:46 --> 01:06:49 Is that really the best way we can do it?
01:06:49 --> 01:06:50 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh
01:06:50 --> 01:06:52 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: my mindset, I think that like really, that really
01:06:52 --> 01:06:57 was transformative and like how I look at a lot of things now is what,
01:06:57 --> 01:06:59 that was a paradigm shifting that day.
01:07:00 --> 01:07:01 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
01:07:01 --> 01:07:02 Yeah.
01:07:02 --> 01:07:03 That would be, yeah.
01:07:03 --> 01:07:08 I, I like that because so many things we do for sake of tradition
01:07:09 --> 01:07:14 and really let's stop and make sure we're doing this for the right reasons.
01:07:14 --> 01:07:15 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Whenever someone
01:07:15 --> 01:07:16 says, why are we doing it?
01:07:16 --> 01:07:19 And they say, well that's just the
01:07:19 --> 01:07:19 way
01:07:19 --> 01:07:19 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: been done.
01:07:20 --> 01:07:20 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: done it.
01:07:20 --> 01:07:22 It should be like a huge, like, whoa,
01:07:23 --> 01:07:23 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Right.
01:07:24 --> 01:07:24 Right.
01:07:25 --> 01:07:25 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yep.
01:07:27 --> 01:07:28 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Our third question, what would you
01:07:28 --> 01:07:30 tell someone just getting started
01:07:31 --> 01:07:34 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: It's, I have had a blast.
01:07:34 --> 01:07:35 I think it is.
01:07:35 --> 01:07:37 I think it is extremely fun.
01:07:39 --> 01:07:44 And I would say start, I, I, you know, a lot of people say like, start small,
01:07:44 --> 01:07:45 you know, and I'm like, go for it.
01:07:45 --> 01:07:49 I mean, I get, if, if it we're talking finances and you know,
01:07:49 --> 01:07:52 if you're like, Hey, I wanna just try this on 10% of my ranch to
01:07:52 --> 01:07:54 get started, I, I understand that.
01:07:54 --> 01:07:57 But if you have the means, if you have the desire, if you have the
01:07:57 --> 01:08:02 want, I, I think we should have big, hairy, nasty goals and go after 'em.
01:08:02 --> 01:08:03 You know, I
01:08:03 --> 01:08:06 want, I wanna do this on 26 million acres of DOD land.
01:08:07 --> 01:08:07 That's my goal.
01:08:08 --> 01:08:09 You know, like that's what I wanna do.
01:08:09 --> 01:08:09 And.
01:08:10 --> 01:08:10 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: right.
01:08:12 --> 01:08:14 Well, one book I've heard mentioned a lot in business
01:08:14 --> 01:08:17 circles 10 x is easier than two x.
01:08:18 --> 01:08:22 And I have, I, I've downloaded the audio book, but I haven't listened to it yet.
01:08:23 --> 01:08:28 But yeah, those, that grand thinking, and he says in the book, based upon the
01:08:28 --> 01:08:32 summaries I've heard from other people, I haven't read it yet, that, that, it
01:08:33 --> 01:08:35 two x just doesn't cause your mind.
01:08:35 --> 01:08:39 Two x is just doubling and you're just gonna continue what you were
01:08:39 --> 01:08:39 doing.
01:08:39 --> 01:08:41 But when you 10 x it,
01:08:41 --> 01:08:44 you can't do what you're doing right now and get to 10 x.
01:08:44 --> 01:08:46 You've got to change up some stuff
01:08:46 --> 01:08:49 and it causes you to really think and reach.
01:08:50 --> 01:08:56 So, so that's, that may be a very valid advice that, hey, get started.
01:08:56 --> 01:08:57 Jump in with both feet.
01:08:57 --> 01:08:57 And
01:08:57 --> 01:09:00 my wife will say, wait a second, you've done that too many times,
01:09:00 --> 01:09:02 but maybe you should.
01:09:02 --> 01:09:05 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yeah, Yeah, yeah, Maybe it's do the homework,
01:09:05 --> 01:09:06 but then like, when you're ready to
01:09:06 --> 01:09:08 go, you do it.
01:09:08 --> 01:09:09 You know, you go for it.
01:09:09 --> 01:09:09 Like,
01:09:09 --> 01:09:10 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Right.
01:09:10 --> 01:09:10 Right.
01:09:11 --> 01:09:11 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: don't
01:09:11 --> 01:09:12 self-select.
01:09:12 --> 01:09:14 We always say, don't self-select.
01:09:14 --> 01:09:18 Like, don't let, let someone else tell you it's not gonna work out,
01:09:18 --> 01:09:19 but you, you can do it if you
01:09:19 --> 01:09:19 wanna do it.
01:09:21 --> 01:09:24 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: And lastly, Eric, where can others find out more about you?
01:09:24 --> 01:09:27 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: So we're fairly active on LinkedIn.
01:09:27 --> 01:09:32 That's really the one, the one medium that I can kind of, get around because.
01:09:33 --> 01:09:35 It's me kinda out there.
01:09:35 --> 01:09:39 I'll quick stop the four-wheeler and take a picture of a, you
01:09:39 --> 01:09:42 know, the polywire as the drastic difference between grazed and razed.
01:09:42 --> 01:09:44 And that always gets me excited.
01:09:44 --> 01:09:45 And I think other people wanna see that too.
01:09:46 --> 01:09:50 So if they go on LinkedIn and if you just type in regenerative grazing open
01:09:50 --> 01:09:55 air lab, you'll, you'll find us think we're the only, we're the only one.
01:09:56 --> 01:09:57 Or you can look me up.
01:09:57 --> 01:09:58 I'm also on LinkedIn as well.
01:10:00 --> 01:10:02 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Well, Eric actually I have wrote down in my notes
01:10:02 --> 01:10:08 to ask you about LinkedIn because I don't use LinkedIn, but you'd mentioned your
01:10:08 --> 01:10:10 information's there and you're talking about it now.
01:10:11 --> 01:10:14 It makes me think maybe I should use it.
01:10:14 --> 01:10:16 So tell me a little bit about LinkedIn.
01:10:16 --> 01:10:19 LinkedIn and why that's your media
01:10:19 --> 01:10:20 of choice.
01:10:21 --> 01:10:27 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: So I have found that a lot of, a lot of the folks who I.
01:10:28 --> 01:10:33 I, you know, I, I kind of keep talking about like Alan Williams Gabe Brown,
01:10:34 --> 01:10:38 the Noble, I mean, they're, they're on there, they're on LinkedIn.
01:10:38 --> 01:10:43 So you, you post something like, I, I'll post a picture of something we did or
01:10:43 --> 01:10:47 a video of one of the moves I'm doing, and I will get real time feedback.
01:10:47 --> 01:10:48 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, yes.
01:10:48 --> 01:10:50 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Alan will send me a message.
01:10:51 --> 01:10:54 You know, it's like, it's kind of open kimono, right?
01:10:54 --> 01:10:56 You're kind of saying like, Hey, this is, this is what
01:10:56 --> 01:10:56 I'm doing.
01:10:56 --> 01:10:58 What's it, how's it looking?
01:10:58 --> 01:10:59 Here's, here's my thoughts on it.
01:11:00 --> 01:11:07 And it, it's a professional forum with the industry professionals, you know,
01:11:07 --> 01:11:09 who can, who you, 'cause they, they can't come out here all the time, you
01:11:10 --> 01:11:10 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: right,
01:11:10 --> 01:11:12 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: But this is a great way to get, and other
01:11:12 --> 01:11:16 folks involved, and people are, you know, people are like, I had no
01:11:16 --> 01:11:20 idea the DOD was implementing this.
01:11:20 --> 01:11:21 Like, how cool, what an awesome
01:11:21 --> 01:11:22 way to restore ranges.
01:11:22 --> 01:11:24 What an awesome way to, and they're.
01:11:25 --> 01:11:26 They're professional.
01:11:26 --> 01:11:28 I mean, we, we connected with the USDA because of LinkedIn,
01:11:29 --> 01:11:30 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yes.
01:11:30 --> 01:11:30 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: of our posts.
01:11:30 --> 01:11:35 So, I would, I would highly recommend it just because it's, it's not just like,
01:11:35 --> 01:11:39 I don't know, we're not trying to like influence people or like sell anything.
01:11:39 --> 01:11:43 I just wanna get like these professional perspectives on what we're doing
01:11:43 --> 01:11:47 and what I'm seeing, and they give me real time feedback, which has
01:11:47 --> 01:11:48 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh, yes.
01:11:48 --> 01:11:49 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: has been a gift.
01:11:50 --> 01:11:50 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Yeah.
01:11:51 --> 01:11:53 Well, I, I'll be honest, earlier today I would've said,
01:11:53 --> 01:11:55 I'm not getting on LinkedIn.
01:11:55 --> 01:11:59 There's no reason, but just your, your little 32nd speech on there, and I
01:11:59 --> 01:12:01 think I may have to try LinkedIn and
01:12:01 --> 01:12:02 get set up on there.
01:12:02 --> 01:12:02 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yeah.
01:12:02 --> 01:12:06 And you'll, you'll, you'll see people with zero ranching or grazing
01:12:06 --> 01:12:09 background who then will like say, Hey, have you thought about this?
01:12:09 --> 01:12:12 And I'm like, no, I
01:12:12 --> 01:12:13 hadn't thought about that.
01:12:13 --> 01:12:17 You know, like that totally could tie into storytelling or so, you know, something
01:12:18 --> 01:12:20 that you just didn't even think about that
01:12:20 --> 01:12:20 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Oh yeah.
01:12:20 --> 01:12:22 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: to your operation is pretty cool.
01:12:23 --> 01:12:23 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Yeah.
01:12:24 --> 01:12:28 I will have to, to look into that and get set up on that and try that out.
01:12:28 --> 01:12:31 I appreciate the, the resource and your knowledge about it.
01:12:32 --> 01:12:35 Now, I'd mentioned to you at the beginning, before we got started
01:12:36 --> 01:12:37 famous for, and then there's a question
01:12:37 --> 01:12:38 afterwards.
01:12:38 --> 01:12:39 We're just started doing this.
01:12:39 --> 01:12:41 Just a few episodes in.
01:12:41 --> 01:12:43 It's your time to ask me something.
01:12:44 --> 01:12:47 So is there anything you would like to ask me?
01:12:48 --> 01:12:53 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: You know, what has been a initial struggle
01:12:53 --> 01:13:00 maybe that you found as I, something that paid off, doesn't have to be an
01:13:00 --> 01:13:02 exponential payoff or anything like that, but something when you started
01:13:02 --> 01:13:09 was very challenging and you're seeing positive returns these days that
01:13:09 --> 01:13:11 would maybe be encouraging for others.
01:13:11 --> 01:13:12 Potentially.
01:13:12 --> 01:13:12 We'll see.
01:13:14 --> 01:13:17 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: I, I don't know if this is my initial
01:13:17 --> 01:13:18 reaction to that question.
01:13:18 --> 01:13:25 My initial knee jerk thoughts on it at first, and, and I think a
01:13:25 --> 01:13:30 lot of beginners struggle with this, is how much area to give
01:13:30 --> 01:13:31 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Mm.
01:13:31 --> 01:13:33 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: my animals today,
01:13:33 --> 01:13:37 because we all wanna go out there and say, oh, we're giving.
01:13:38 --> 01:13:43 So I'm gonna give four foot by two foot to this cow, and I have a hundred of them.
01:13:43 --> 01:13:46 So I need 400 by 200 area.
01:13:46 --> 01:13:49 And there's, there's some formulas to that to
01:13:49 --> 01:13:52 figure out how much grass you have out there, the density of it, how
01:13:52 --> 01:13:58 tall it is, how many pounds you have per acre, and then your cows, they're
01:13:58 --> 01:14:02 gonna consume two and a half percent of their body weight depending upon
01:14:02 --> 01:14:03 what stage of production they're in.
01:14:04 --> 01:14:06 There's, there's formless to figure it out.
01:14:07 --> 01:14:14 But I think in the beginning, for me, that was one of those analysis paralysis points
01:14:15 --> 01:14:19 in that I, I just didn't know, do I give them more?
01:14:19 --> 01:14:20 Do I give them less?
01:14:21 --> 01:14:26 Do I, I know I can calculate this, so, so here I need to go out and calculate it.
01:14:26 --> 01:14:28 And there's lots of benefits to calculating it and
01:14:28 --> 01:14:30 learning how to calculate it.
01:14:30 --> 01:14:33 But for someone just getting started.
01:14:33 --> 01:14:35 I think that was a big holdup for me.
01:14:35 --> 01:14:41 And once I was able to let go of that, and you mentioned this earlier in here,
01:14:42 --> 01:14:47 you make a mistake and you don't give those cows enough grass for 24 hours.
01:14:47 --> 01:14:50 You go out there, you see your patty graze too short.
01:14:50 --> 01:14:53 Or maybe you wanted to do non-selective grazing, but even
01:14:53 --> 01:14:56 at that point, you've gotta know how long you've had 'em in there.
01:14:56 --> 01:14:58 Those cows house, the fill on them.
01:14:59 --> 01:14:59 Are they hungry?
01:15:00 --> 01:15:04 You have the opportunity to change that the very next day, or I say the
01:15:04 --> 01:15:07 next day right there, when you're out there for that next paddock they're
01:15:07 --> 01:15:13 going into that, that error you make is just one time and you have
01:15:13 --> 01:15:15 time to reflect on it and move on.
01:15:15 --> 01:15:16 So.
01:15:17 --> 01:15:21 I think we get wrapped up in the beginning on analysis paralysis, making sure we
01:15:21 --> 01:15:24 have it exactly right in your context.
01:15:24 --> 01:15:29 My context, even if I do all the math, my pasture is not going to read those
01:15:29 --> 01:15:32 charts and say That's how much grass is out there, and my cows are not gonna
01:15:32 --> 01:15:35 read that chart and say, I'm eating two and a half percent of my body weight
01:15:36 --> 01:15:36 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: That's right.
01:15:37 --> 01:15:38 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: So, so you gotta modify that.
01:15:38 --> 01:15:43 And I think for me, getting over that hump of, oh, it needs to be
01:15:43 --> 01:15:47 this and being a little bit freer and letting my eye figure it out,
01:15:47 --> 01:15:51 and I don't have it figured out, but I can put cows there and I'm not,
01:15:51 --> 01:15:54 it's no longer a big worry for me.
01:15:54 --> 01:15:58 And I think that has paid off just in the amount of time it takes me.
01:15:58 --> 01:16:02 It's paid off in my initiative to do it because.
01:16:03 --> 01:16:07 You get in that analysis paralysis rather than doing the step, whatever
01:16:07 --> 01:16:10 you need to do, you're thinking, oh, I gotta figure that out.
01:16:10 --> 01:16:12 Well, I need to look up the formula.
01:16:12 --> 01:16:13 Where do I find the formula?
01:16:13 --> 01:16:16 And then you, was it a couple hours because you're like, I gotta get this.
01:16:16 --> 01:16:17 All right.
01:16:17 --> 01:16:19 It doesn't have to be right.
01:16:19 --> 01:16:20 It doesn't have to be correct.
01:16:21 --> 01:16:23 That's why I like to say, just get started.
01:16:23 --> 01:16:24 Do go out there and do it.
01:16:24 --> 01:16:30 But I think letting go of that and then being able to, to use your
01:16:30 --> 01:16:33 eye, you're training yourself, you're training your cows.
01:16:33 --> 01:16:35 I think that's been the biggest payoff.
01:16:36 --> 01:16:38 And I don't know if that's a good answer to your question, but
01:16:38 --> 01:16:41 that's my, my initial reaction to
01:16:41 --> 01:16:42 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Well, it's your show, so I guess you
01:16:42 --> 01:16:45 get to say It's a good question.
01:16:45 --> 01:16:45 Good answer.
01:16:45 --> 01:16:46 I think it is.
01:16:46 --> 01:16:48 I mean, developing the grazer's eye, right?
01:16:48 --> 01:16:48 Isn't that what they
01:16:48 --> 01:16:48 call it?
01:16:48 --> 01:16:51 You know, you could be out there all day with your grazing stick and you're
01:16:51 --> 01:16:54 like, well, it's gotta be representative, but this spot's a little bit shorter
01:16:54 --> 01:16:55 and this spot over here is longer.
01:16:55 --> 01:16:58 And whoa, this spot over here I got, I have way more bare ground
01:16:58 --> 01:16:59 over here than over there, and
01:17:00 --> 01:17:00 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Right.
01:17:00 --> 01:17:04 And, and I think different personalities handle that different ways.
01:17:05 --> 01:17:10 You know, s some people are very, and, and, I don't even know
01:17:11 --> 01:17:12 what characteristic it would be.
01:17:13 --> 01:17:17 Probably my wife being a little OCD would probably not be good at doing that.
01:17:17 --> 01:17:18 So she needs a little bit of help.
01:17:19 --> 01:17:23 I struggle from trying to be perfect when I'm not going to be there.
01:17:23 --> 01:17:29 So that takes, that's where I'm struggling from, where some people don't have that.
01:17:29 --> 01:17:33 They, they have other things that's dictating what they're worried about.
01:17:33 --> 01:17:33 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yeah, that's
01:17:34 --> 01:17:35 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: We, we all have our issues,
01:17:36 --> 01:17:37 just, we gotta identify and work with them.
01:17:37 --> 01:17:38 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: that's right.
01:17:38 --> 01:17:39 Yep.
01:17:40 --> 01:17:40 That's good.
01:17:40 --> 01:17:42 cal_1_03-20-2025_175502: Eric, I really appreciate you
01:17:42 --> 01:17:43 coming on and sharing today.
01:17:43 --> 01:17:44 eric-_1_03-20-2025_155502: Yeah.
01:17:44 --> 01:17:45 Thanks for having me.
01:17:45 --> 01:17:49 Cal: Thank you for listening to this episode of the grazing grass podcast,
01:17:49 --> 01:17:53 where we bring you stories and insights into grass-based livestock production.
01:17:54 --> 01:17:56 If you're new here, we've got something just for you.
01:17:57 --> 01:17:58 Our new listener resource guide.
01:17:59 --> 01:18:03 Is packed with everything you need to get started on your listening
01:18:03 --> 01:18:05 journey with a grazing grass podcast.
01:18:05 --> 01:18:09 It gives you more information about the podcast about myself.
01:18:09 --> 01:18:10 And next steps.
01:18:11 --> 01:18:14 You can grab your free copy at grazinggrass.com
01:18:14 --> 01:18:16 slash guide.
01:18:16 --> 01:18:17 Don't miss out.
01:18:18 --> 01:18:21 And Hey, do you have a grazing story to share?
01:18:21 --> 01:18:25 We're always looking for passionate producers to feature on the show,
01:18:26 --> 01:18:30 whether you're just starting out or have years of experience your story matters.
01:18:31 --> 01:18:32 Head over to grazing grass.
01:18:33 --> 01:18:34 Dot com slash guest.
01:18:35 --> 01:18:37 To learn more and apply to be a guest.
01:18:37 --> 01:18:41 We'd love to share your journey with our growing community of grazers.
01:18:42 --> 01:18:43 Until next time.
01:18:44 --> 01:18:45 Keep on grazing grass.
Related Episodes
160. Embracing Change in Cattle Breeding and Grazing with Trevor and Cheryl Branvold
In this episode, we are joined by Trevor and Cheryl Brannvold, the passionate owners of GBT Angus in Southeast Saskatchewan. Their journey into cattle farming began in Trevor's high school years and has since blossomed into a successful family business that also includes a budding sheep enterprise ...
159. Pioneering New Paths in Agriculture with Nathan Stucky
In this episode of the Grazing Grass Podcast, Nathan Stucky of Stucky Family Ranch returns to discuss the latest innovations in sustainable agriculture. From integrating new cattle genetics to exploring advanced data collection with Rooted Ag, Nathan shares his journey over the past year. He delves...
158. Innovative Dairy Farming: Blending Tradition with Technology at Clanman Farm with Sean Smith
Sean Smith, the guest of this episode, is a dedicated and innovative dairy farmer from Clanman Farm in Manitoba. With a deep-rooted family history in dairy farming, Sean has embraced both traditional practices and modern technology to enhance his farm's operations. His commitment to sustainable far...